Honda Accord Quality Control Issues

ray_h71 · January 2003

I've been following the 5W-20 debates over at "bobistheoilguy.com". While opinions are heated, a few oil analysis reports are trickling in. The stuff, regardless of brand, seems to be holding up remarkably well - even at drain intervals in excess of 6,000 miles. The Mobil (Honda) and Conoco (Ford) 5W-20 oils are blends of Group II and Group III base stocks (plus additives, of course) which automatically renders them a semi-synthetic. I expect that this base stock blending with Group IIIs will become common-place in other weight grades with time, but the 5W-20s are here now, and if my car were qualified to use it by the manufacturer (not Honda), I'd switch in a heartbeat. Yes, the whole issue was CAFE-driven, but the oil companies have responded with the necessary just-in-time technology.

bribaby · January 2003

Yes they are mandated in Canada, and yes, they are a good thing.
Before we got them here a lot of people argued that they didn't want them or need them.
I never hear a complaint against them now though.
Actually, on some cars the look really good because they will use the blinker as the DRL instead of the regular headlight, like on the PT Cruiser. BTW a DRL is not as bright as a low beam headlight, but it sure increases visibility.

v831 · January 2003

I'm now past the 1k km threshold on my 03 Accord LX (4cyl). I noticed an annoying wind noise (similar to a whistle) when I pass the 70km/h mark. Has anyone had a similar experience? If so, do you know of any remedy?

Thanks

accord7 · January 2003

I had that with my 1990 Accord. The window wouldn't fit tightly enough against the weatherstripping. I could hear a whistle in my left ear. Take a cloth and put it up in the corner of your window and see if that mutes the sound. If it does, you need to have the weatherstripping replaced or refitted.

rbruehl · January 2003

My 6th generation V-6 had the same problem. Especially high cross winds would create the whistling sound coming from the outdoor driverside mirror.

babyb · January 2003

..are a good thing. In my 2001 Honda Accord EX if I leave the light switch on and then lock it with the remote they will turn off in 15-20 seconds. Then when you use the remote to unlock the car, the lights turn back on, and you are ready to go!

anselmo1 · February 2003

I have a stainless steel catback exhaust on my 5th generation Accord. Bought it from:

http://www.dcsports.com

anonymousposts · February 2003

My 99/01 Accords did not have DRL's but the headlights served the same function.

paulo3 · February 2003

Can Honda install them as an option? If not, is there an aftermarket DRL kit that would do the trick?

alcan · February 2003

Here's one possible option:
http://www.pacificinsight.com/aftermarket/after.htm

gregoryc1 · February 2003

If you want to have a sweet running engine, change the engine oil and filter every 3,000 miles or three months which ever comes first. Use a HIGH QUALITY OIL and FILTER. I let the selling dealer do this service, because we have an extended warranty on our vehicles, and should something go wrong, all of our service records are in one place. We like to keep our lives STUPID / SIMPLE. Having been around engines all my life, I also believe in running a "top cylinder lubricant" in the fuel of our vehicles, (Cars & Boats). When lead was removed from the fuel, the engine lost a top cylinder lubricant for the valves, the valve guides and the piston rings. Many land and water vehicles are suffering from valve and piston ring problems because of this lack of lubrication. I use a product called Marvel Mystery Oil. It is manufactured by Turtle Wax, and it is safe for converters and oxygen sensors. Uses 4 ounces of MM oil to each 10 gallons of fuel. At that ratio it is hardly noticeable in the fuel. (Picture pouting 4 ounces of orange juice in 10 gallons of water. It would not even tint the water.) This product keeps the valves and piston rings free of carbon, and operating in a smooth fashion. We also use this product in the fuel of a 7.4 MerCruiser I/O marine engine. -----Just my opinion. ----Greg

gee35coupe · February 2003

One thing we may not have here are engine problems. They may not start from electronic glitches and the transmissions may make weird sounds but the Honda engine seems to be bulletproof. Follow your manual.

tntitan · February 2003

3,750 for my 2000 Accord SE and 5,000 for my 2002 CRV-EX. Just my personal opinion, but I don't believe very many cars do not qualify for severe driving conditions. Yes, I have my flameproof suit on--so have at it.

gee35coupe · February 2003

Are 10,000 miles.
I'm changing it at 7500 to be safe but I'm not gonna be religious about it. I'll go 8500 if I don't have the time.

dc_sports_rule · February 2003

I have mine done at 3 months or 3K miles---whatever comes first. Only use a Honda filter and have it done at the dealership.

I have seen or heard horror stories about quick oil change/lube establishments.

anonymousposts · February 2003

We either have ours done at the dealer or at my job. Only problem was with my job .. the tech forgot to put the oil cap back on my 93 Accord and oil was all over the engine. But they paid for a new oil cap, gave me a free oil change, and cleaned the engine bay.

inkie · February 2003

As far as only using the Honda Filters I would have agreed with you before I purchased this last batch of filters from Honda. They came from Canada and are made by Fram. There 2 ounces lighter in weight,gasket looks flimsy, media looks different inside, and just does'nt look as sturdy as the Filtech POH305 Filters made in USA. This goes for the CRV type too.I guess they are cutting costs. If I can't get any more Filtech Honda filters I am going to go to WIX or Purolator One. I am not as concerned because I change oil as you do 3 or 4 months regardless of milage but I would be worried about this filter coming apart if I went the 8,000 or 10,000 miles as some of the posters do.

spleck · February 2003

We had our oil changed before leaving on a 1400 mile trip at Wally world. Drove all the way, and half a mile from our destination, I started smelling hot/burning oil. Got there and popped the hood. The oil cap was laying on the top of the engine still and a little oil had sprayed out. Drove 1400 miles with an open engine... only lost 1/4 quart. No damage apparently. Now I check the oil all the time on road trips. When someone else does it, I pop the hood and check the level and everything before leaving.

lugwrench · February 2003

I have only used Honda filters in all my oil changes up until the last one. Decided to buy a K&N oil filter from McNeil. I have read so much about the K&N oil filter I decided to give it a try.

I purchased two of the them. Will let everyone know how things turned out at my next oil change.

gee35coupe · February 2003

ray_h71 · February 2003

For those of you who, like me, are obsessive-compulsive about changing oil and filter every 3,000 miles, WalMart's U.S. "SuperTech" oil filters are generally well regarded over at "bobistheoilguy.com". These U.S. versions are apparently made by Champion Laboratories. (dunno about Canadian WalMart oil filters) If any of you look into this, be aware that WalMart's little "computer" reference guide thingy or manual lists their # "6607" as the proper filter for Accords. This filter is in no way close to the physical size of the Honda OEM filters. The one I used on my 96 Accord is their # 2808. These sell for $1.97 U.S., have metal end caps, pressure-relief bypass valve, and a blend of synthetic and conventional treated paper fiber filtration media (Black canister - the older blue canister versions' filtration media is all conventional treated paper, so check.).

chiggaraccord4 · February 2003

could you please expand your discussion between the black and blue canister?

are you suggesting that supertech should be changed every 3k or can i changed at 5k??

thanks,
chiggaraccord4

ray_h71 · February 2003

The reference to black and blue (a "bruising" topic!... Sorry, sometimes I can't help myself.) was in relation to the color paint used on the filter's outer case. Avoid the blue painted filters if possible - some are still on the shelves. Just remember, "Black is beautiful.". I see no reason why you couldn't extend the drain and filter replacement intervals to 5,000 miles. In my opinion these filters are at least the equivalent of the Honda OEM filters. My only reason for referencing 3,000 miles was for people like myself who religiously change at that low a mileage to help cut down the out-of-pocket expense associated with that frequency of service. By the way, I don't work for WalMart.

chiggaraccord4 · February 2003

the reason i asked was that i brought my first supertech for my 90 civic and it was a black canister. before, i was using stp but lurking in the site you metioned, i found out they were the same....

anyway, my 03 i4 accord is approaching its first oil change.....oil filter and honda 5w20
do you know if the oil filter is the same as 02 i4 accord?

thanks,
chiggaraccord4

dc_sports_rule · February 2003

If what you are saying is true, I will switch from the OEM Honda oil filter to the K&N oil filter. I to noticed that the Honda OEM oil filter is more flimsy than previous ones that I had purchased. I guess I will order from this site:

http://www.kn-air-filters.com/Oil_Filter.html

ray_h71 · February 2003

chiggaraccord4, you wrote:

"...anyway, my 03 i4 accord is approaching its first oil change.....oil filter and honda 5w20
do you know if the oil filter is the same as 02 i4 accord?"

Dunno about 2003 model filters, but my best ~guess~ is that Honda did NOT make a change. Check and/or post over at bobistheoilguy.com. ~Someone~ will chime in. By the way, the Honda 5W-20 is apparently made by Mobil. Good stuff, but by no means the only game in town. For around $1.80/qt., WalMart sells that 5W-20 grade in branded Pennzoil and Ford Motorcraft oil, too. The Motorcraft 5W-20 is actually made by Conoco and uses their "Hydroclear" iso-dewaxed severely hydrogen-processed Group III base oils blended with Group II - think of the combo as a semi-synthetic. Pennzoil's 5W-20, and all their other grades of conventional dino oil, are formulated with their own "Pennzane" Group III base oils, along with Group-II base oils, too. For those who're unfamiliar with "Group III" type base oils, these are the hooza-hooza penultimate dinosaur juices. They mimic many of the more desirable qualities of traditional PAO (PolyAphaOlefin) synthetics at a working man's pricepoint, and come out of the spiggot so pure that they're water white, odorless*, and are also non-toxic so that they're licensed to be used in cosmetics as well as industrial food preparation machinery in which trace amounts of lubricant could come in contact with the food. Group IIIs exhibit nearly as broad a viscosity range as traditional PAOs, and high flash points (well over 400 degrees F.). All of Pennzoil's conventional dinosaur juice oils are blends of Group II and Group III base oils now and probably represent as close to a sneak preview of next year's GF-4/SM conventional oils as you can get currently. In fact, only Mobil 1 is the only retail off-the-shelf PAO based full synthetic in the U.S.now. ALL other retail off-the-shelf "full synthetics" are group III based with appropriate amounts of di-ester and polyalkeneglycol base oils added for elastomeric seal pliability and extreme pressure anti-wear qualities. My only gripe with the Group-III based "full synthetics" is that Group-III base oils cost about half as much to produce as PAO base oils. But, the retail pricing still does not reflect a fully proportional savings. I don't work for any of the oil companies either. Sorry for the long-winded rant - just trying to pass along some useful info. (Anyone who gets hooked on a lubrication-enthusiast forum obviously doesn't have a life...)

*If you buy Pennzoil, don't expect it to be water white and odorless. There is still the minimal amount of stinky, dark, Group-I base oil used as the carrier for the additive package chemistry.

inkie · February 2003

I am a retired chemist, enjoyed your accurate post. If you are not a "pro" and just a lube enthusiast you know your hobby well.Thanks for the heads up on Supertech Filters.The new Honda filters are made in Canada by Fram and the last batch I bought are 2 ounces lighter, have thinner metal inside and out, the inside looks different and cheap including bypass. If I can't get any Honda Filtechs made in the USA I will check out Wallmarts.

spleck · February 2003

I had seen a blurb somewhere about the newer oils and couldn't find any info afterwards. Thanks for the heads up.

Okay, so you're saying that ALL of Pennzoil's have group III base oils. What about Motorcraft? Only the 5W20 is group III based?

I'm asking because I have an old Taurus that drinks 5W30 (and apparently swallows, belches, and slobbers back out).

atlantabenny · February 2003

Your narrative on lube base stocks was outstanding - which prompts this query about oil filter effectiveness and necessity.

What's your opinion, as suggested by a post under "Periodic Maintenance," I believe, about the importance of crankcase oil filters ?

The hypothesis was that with higher-quality oils and better-engineered modern engines, the oil filter is like the appendix that's no longer necessary and consequently, a motor can make it to 100k miles with a wear rate that's indifferent to the presence of an oil filter.

Thanks.

chiggaraccord4 · February 2003

there nothing additionals i have to ask but to thank you for VERY informative post!

chiggaraccord4

ray_h71 · February 2003

Thanks for the kudos, but I'll demure on "awesome". I just read a lot. I don't have any information on Conoco/Motorcraft's other weight oils. I would take the conservative approach that except for their 5W-20 oil, the other weight oils are probably either Group-I and Group-II blends or Group-II stocks, alone (which would still make 'em very good performers). I'm still breaking my own car (2003 Hyundai Sonata V6, just over 3,000 miles) on SuperTech 10W-30. Somewhere around the 12,000 mile mark, I plan to switch over to Pennzoil 10W-30 dino juice - unless I can verify someone else has a Group-II/Group-III blend conventional at a lower price than WallyWorld's $1.81/qt for Pennzoil. One I'm not sure of is Castrol GTX (gonna hafta do some more reading...).

As to the controversy about the need for oil filtration:

1> It's probably a good idea to have ~something~ screwed onto the nipple and sealing the mounting base <snicker>.

2> There is logic to the notion that oil filtration may be only minimally, if at all, necessary what with factory micro-finished bearing surfaces and the availability of high detergency oils. And, I'm aware that there are very conscientious owners who put 10,000 miles on a filter with no apparent problems - and have the oil analysis numbers to back it up. However, there is the issue of silicon entering as dirt through the air intake system and finding its way into the engine. Some inevitably gets past the air filter. (God's solution to finding a cheap, effective, universal abrasive was a resounding success!) So, for me, an oil filter is one more level of protection against that potential threat. In the end, if I can lay hands on a cheap but reasonably well-made oil filter, I don't consider changing both my oil and oil filter routinely a nettlesome burden. But then, I wear my obsessive-compulsive hat with pride.

krillin · February 2003

I have a '03 EX-V6 coupe and the exhaust tips seem to have a brownish stain on them. Its not rust, but is this normal?

paulo3 · February 2003

Are the exhaust tips stainless steel?

beagles3 · February 2003

My husbands Accord has the dash light in the clock burnt out. The dealer wants $50 + a $5.00 bulb to fix...Is htis easy to replace ourselves?? Our daughter has my 91 Accord with 240,000 mi and never has had to replace dash lights, etc....We have had issues with the passenger door not opening, elec passenger seat breaking,etc....what happened to the quality?

lugwrench · February 2003

Isn't your car covered under warranty? Also, if the warranty has expired, maybe Honda will fix it free as a "goodwill gesture". If you have your car serviced at the same dealership for oil changes and follow the maintenance schedule, the service advisor should go to "bat" for you!

beagles3 · February 2003

Thanks..it's way over warranty at 50,000 +. The dealer did not seem to thrilled about reaching into their pocket:(

talon95 · February 2003

It's a really easy fix. I'm far from being Mr. Goodwrench myself, and I did it a couple of weeks ago on my 2000 EX V6.

The clock comes out by itself... you merely wrap a cloth around a blade screwdriver and pry up gently under the bottom of the clock. That releases the clips and it comes right out. BTW, they recommend putting a piece of masking tape on the dash under the clock, at the spot where you'll be doing the gentle prying.

The bulb is removed with a quarter turn of a screwdriver... it's the little flat thing on the passenger end of the clock. The replacement goes in and locks with the opposite 1/4 turn. Then you just slide the clock back in until it clicks. Took me all of 5 minutes. As for the price of the bulb, $5? I just paid around $1.40 at my dealer!

Illustrated instructions are included as part of the installation instructions for a in-dash CD player... here's the URL:

http://www.hparts.com/pdf/21617.pdf

beagles3 · February 2003

Thanks...I really appreciate the help:)

tntitan · February 2003

Would not Chevron Supreme SL at $1.08 at WallyWorld not fulfill your dino oil requirements?

ray_h71 · February 2003

tntitan, in my opinion, Chevron Supreme would be an excellent choice! So would the newest "Havoline" brand now that Chevron merged with Texaco (actually they bought Texaco out, but "merged" sounds warmer and fuzzier...). If you happen to look for Havoline, check the back of the bottle. If it says "Equilon", it's leftover stock from when Shell was still blending and bottling motor oil under the Havoline banner. A number of posts at "bobistheoilguy.com" have been less than enthusiastic about the Equilon "Havoline", and I don't know why. It is an API "SL" designated oil and states that it's blended from Group-II base stocks. Chevron, by the way, has been at the forefront of Group-II and Group-III base stock development in America. They have a huge lube oil facility in Freemont, California cooking Group-II and Group-III base stocks 24/7. Much of what I ~think~ I know about Group-III base stocks came from a "white paper" reprint I downloaded in ".pdf" format from Chevron's website. I saw both Chevron Supreme and the "good" (Chevron-made) Havoline on sale over the weekend at Target for $0.99/qt. Costco carries Chevron Supreme by the case for what translates to about $0.96/qt., too. Once I get the last of the case of SuperTech 10W-30 I have used up, I could easily find a case of Chevron Supreme 10W-30 following me home.

ray_h71 · February 2003

For anyone willing to wade through the techno-babble, here's a link for the downloadable files.

http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/BaseOils/papers.shtml

Also, ChevronTexaco's sprawling lubricating oil base stocks plant is in Richmond, California, not Freemont, as posted above.

knapp3 · March 2003

For those of you so inclined to use this weight, this oil is on sale at my local Kmart this week for $1.29 qt. It's had some favorable used oil analysis reports over at Bob's site. Like the other previously mentioned brands, it has some group III oil in it according to the msds. Anyway, just wanted to mention it for those of you who only read the Sunday comics (like me) and not the ads if you wanted to check your local store.

dholte · March 2003

I just purchased a 2003 Accord EX L Sedan. The 6 disc CD player does not work. I didn't think to try it out before I purchased it. The dealer is trying to order a new radio/cd player but it has been 3 weeks now & no word on how much longer it will be backordered. I just wanted to warn everyone out there to be sure and check things out thorougly BEFORE you sign the papers!

When a CD player is put in the LCD just displays ERR.

dc_sports_rule · March 2003

I just saw this link about a potential problem with the 2003 Honda Accord V-6 and a starting problem:

http://www.petitiononline.com/03Accord/petition.html

spjdkk · March 2003

Hi,

I have a 2001 Honda Accord LX. I have owned nothing but Hondas since 1986. However, this car and I seem to have bad Karma! The transmission broke just after 21,000 miles. There is info. on Honda's home page about this matter.

I was shocked when the transmission broke, but I got it replaced free. I was greatly inconvenienced because it happened Christmas Eve.

The dealer was NOT going to offer me a rental car, and had the audacity to tell me I was crazy. They had never had a problem with this vehicle. I showed them the (Not recall, but almost recall) piece on Honda's home page, telling of the possible problem with the transmission on this car, and the Passport and another model. So, when they checked the car out, this crazy woman was right. I don't know what they put in there. It was probably a re-manufactured part, but I have a warranty on the transmission.

After I called Honda Customer Service, they did get me a rental car. NOW, HOWEVER, the trade-in value of my car is very bad because the new transmission is not part of the original car, and it can not be certified as a used Honda car with the extended warranty. Is this my fault?? Honda offered me a $500 rebate on a new trade-in. However, I owe a million dollars on this car already.

Now I find out that the seal around the windshield is coming loose. And yes, I do have a strange squeaking noise in my car.

Last winter, I took it into the garage three times because there was a strange smell that came into the car when the heater was on. The smell had the aroma of anti-freeze. They could find no problem.

The value of my car is not good.

Maybe I should call Honda again and ask them if they will give me more on a trade-in.
Any ideas?

Anybody have any ideas?

I was disappointed because Honda is such a reputable car company. They said no company is ever responsible for helping out a victim. Sure, your car is devalued because of our poor quality control, but we don't care, because we make a million dollars, and drive other models, or get a different car to drive every day. Even the maintenance people were creeps. They got a bit nicer once I, the customer, called Honda directly.

Any comments or ideas would be appreciated.
Thank You.

anonymousposts · March 2003

Have you actually tried to trade the Accord in? Have you taken it to a place like Carmax who will just buy your car?

mikegold_1966 · March 2003

Here are some very interesting statistics:

HONDA RECALL SCOREBOARD
1990 thru 2003 Model Cars
as of MARCH 10, 2003

It seems as if quality is going down since 1990:

2003 Model Cars Recalls
PILOT 1
2002 Model Cars Recalls
ACCORD 1
CIVIC 1
ODYSSEY 1
2001 Model Cars Recalls
ACCORD 3
CIVIC 7
INSIGHT 1
PASSPORT 2
2000 Model Cars Recalls
ACCORD 10
CIVIC 5
CR-V 1
ODYSSEY 8
S2000 5
1999 Model Cars Recalls
ACCORD 4
CIVIC 3
CR-V 3
ODYSSEY 10
PASSPORT 1
PRELUDE 3
1998 Model Cars Recalls
ACCORD 6
CIVIC 4
CR-V 3
ODYSSEY 3
PASSPORT 5
PRELUDE 3
1997 Model Cars Recalls
ACCORD 5
CIVIC 3
CR-V 2
ODYSSEY 3
PRELUDE 3
1996 Model Cars Recalls
ACCORD 2
CIVIC 3
PRELUDE 1
1995 Model Cars Recalls
ACCORD 2
PASSPORT 1
1994 Model Cars Recalls
ACCORD 1
CIVIC 1
PASSPORT 4
1993 Model Cars Recalls
ACCORD 1
CIVIC 1
1992 Model Cars Recalls
ACCORD 1
CIVIC 1
1991 Model Cars Recalls
ACCORD 2
CIVIC 1
PRELUDE 1
1990 Model Cars Recalls
ACCORD 2
CIVIC 2
PRELUDE 1

See this link for more information:

http://mycarstats.com/Top10s/recalls_HONDA.asp

anonymousposts · March 2003

Recalls aren't necessarily a sign of quality or lack thereof. I had a recall on my 98 Civic for the floor mats. I had a recall on my 99 Accord because some owners manuals were incorrect regarding tire pressure or something. Unless there are an exorbitant amount of recalls (ala Ford Focus) then it doesn't really matter. At least the manufacturer is repairing it on their dime and not yours.

isellhondas · March 2003

For anything else and you'll find similar( usually more)recall notices.

They are usually not a big deal. In the "old days" they didn't even exist.

mikegold_1966 · March 2003

If you research the recalls, some of them were pretty serious such as the transmission problem, balancer shaft gasket seal problem, etc.

Honda Accord Quality Control Issues

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