Honda Accord Quality Control Issues

bburton3 · October 2003

Just a restatement of Talon95's post, CR exists to provide product information for their customers who are consumers of these products. JDP exists to provide "selling points" for their customers who are the automobile manufacturer's. Now whose information would you rather believe. JDP designs their research to help car manufacturer's sell cars. Perfectly ok thing to do but just recognize JDP's motivation.

Doubt if they have ever made a penny from Honda-why would they do anything for Honda.

As a former market researcher I really admire the business model JDP has developed. Also their methodology must stand up to potential liability suits. When is the last time you saw a auto manufacturer going after JDP. Remember the long court battle between CR and a certain tippy SUV. CR did the world a favor to bring this problem front and center.

When anybody is flogging anything-just be aware of where their interest lies and that will tell the tale.

chikoo · October 2003

is it not possible that the people who buy Honda are extremely discriminating and will bring down the house for even a "tiny" problem? as opposed to other owners owning other brands who are more compromising and accept minor rattles and squeaks as normal?

justin · October 2003

i tend to think that small problems are made into big problems with Honda. people just aren't used to Honda having problems - don't know how to take it when there is a rattle or squeek. so unexpected.

scape2 · October 2003

stories of cars from all Brands (GM, Ford, Dodge, VW whomever going over 100,000 miles.... The fact is its your personal experience that is going to make or break whether you buy the same brand of vehicle again.
Honda's aren't perfect. We had once owned a 2000 Accord and it was back in the shop 3x during the time we owned it. It was an "ok" car nothing to write home about in my book. Especially after I drove a Mazda 6 and a Passat V6! Visit www.alldata.com and try to find Honda TSB information..

atlantabenny · October 2003

In my line of work, I see it all the time. Businesses whose success overtakes their infrastructure. When Honda was at a lower sales volume, quality defects were much fewer. Now at 400k cars/year just for the Accord, What Honda needs to do is to invest in right-sizing its organization and/or upgrading its "Total Quality Management" practices.

anonymousposts · October 2003

Honda has been selling 350,000-400,000 Accords since 1990. Don't think you can blame it on the sales volume. I think the main difference is the internet. People have a very accessible way to complain about any little squeak or rattle. I actually read a long-term of a 93 Accord EX auto and they had a couple of small problems. Nothing major, but nothing worse or better than what people complain about in here.

Personally, all of my Accords have been great. Wouldn't keep buying them otherwise.

fjm1 · October 2003

I agree w/anon, I doubt very much that Honda has exceeded their infrastructure capacity to build quality autos. If anything, I believe Honda only has expectations of being not only the number 1 volume manufacturer globally, but a benchmark for reliability. Thus far, they are succeeding on both fronts. When they start building pickup trucks.....

It’s not just the internet that has created a hotbed for complaints, although it is a part of the equation. The cars themselves are infinitely more complex than just ten years ago. There is so much more that can go wrong, yet cars today are generally more reliable. Total Quality Management at work.

Cars are also much quieter. I’ve got a ’92 Integra with a plethora of rattles, tire noise, engine noise, exhaust. But it doesn’t seem to bother me. My 2003 Accord MIGHT have a rattle in the passenger side door. It’s driving me nuts. Not so much that it occasionally exists, but that I can actually HEAR that miniscule sound.

This leaves manufacturers in something of a quandary. They must continue to develop noise-canceling technologies, yet those same efforts reveal unintended results. Now, instead of noise complaints emanating from sources outside of the cockpit, many people are finding the interior materials causing annoying vibrations or squeaks. Especially windows. The seals have almost become too tight and wear resistant. They certainly keep out moisture and noise, as well as last for the life of the car. So now instead of having to replace window/door seals because of wear, we replace them because we’re getting annoyed.

I believe that we, as consumers, are beginning to expect perfection from a continuously evolving machine. One that has changed so dramatically from it’s inception that it can scarcely be compared to it’s predecessors. The modern auto shares 4 wheels, an engine, and the capacity to convey humans with the Benz Patent Motor Vehicle "Replica" (1886, Germany) and that’s about it. In a little over 100 years a bunch of folks just like you and I have gone from “gee, what a great idea” to “my personal conveyance appliance is not fast/quiet/entertaining/trouble-free/cheap enough”.

When I was a young whipper snapper I had to trudge uphill 4 miles in the snow both ways……..

lugwrench · October 2003

I think Honda still has quality control in the manufacture of Accords in the Ohio plant. My contention is that the "out sourced" parts suppliers are the problem. More and more parts are purchased from US suppliers that also supply GM, Ford, and Chrysler. I remember reading where Honda would supply GM with a certain engine for one of their vehicles. In return, Honda had to buy certain GM parts as part of the agreement.

Here is the article:

http://world.honda.com/news/1999/c991221b.html

gee35coupe · October 2003

That article stressed Europe.

pj23 · October 2003

As far as I know, Honda doesn't offer a diesel version of any car in the United States. And anyway, the diesels are from Isuzu, which is... a Japanese company, albeit controlled by GM. But, so is Subaru. And as I recall from the Top Gear and Car, Isuzu has decent diesels.

atlantabenny · October 2003

For sure the internet serves to broadcast real-world observations more today than even 15 years ago when it was probably just military officers exchanging car notes with each other.

But on the basis of the first 180 days' quality of the 6th and 7th generation Accords, my personal observation (since we had/have them both, bought at different times), the simple fact is that the 7th gen has had warped rotors, many interior noises and more recently, a clanging noise from the rear. The 6th gen ? None.

On both gen Accords, we got the cars on the first few months of the new model year.

My real-world experience thus suggests that Honda's initial quality has slipped. Something's wrong with their system, and if they want to keep their customers, they simply should just address it is my message to the big H.

lugwrench · October 2003

Here is a better article:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/DailyNews/honda_gm991221.- html

mikegold_1966 · October 2003

I have to agree with Lugwrench regarding Honda and its American suppliers. Just look at the disc brake problems with the 2003 Accords with warped rotors. Suppliers are given certain specifications by Honda in the bidding process. Honda probably takes the lowest bid and receives products that the suppliers cut corners on which are not to specifications.

Honda just needs to do a better job policing its suppliers.

isellhondas · October 2003

That Honda would jeopardize their reputation by simply going with the lowest bidder and accepting product not up to their specs?

I do agree that Honda needs to be VERY vigilant with their vendors.

fjm1 · October 2003

So What?

Honda and GM are going to swap engines. Each is getting a good deal.

I'll make the prediction that GM will take the engines they are supplied and plop them right into any vehicle they will fit in.

Honda will, like they did with the Isuzu built Passport, put the GM motors on the market for a short while. After a few years they will have enough R&D to come out with a whole new line of diesel powered vehicles.

So, while GM rests upon its laurels Honda is busy becoming a leading manufacturer of both gas AND diesel engines.

Quality Slipping at Honda? Yeah, right. In your dreams.

justin · October 2003

Honda should try to see about buying GM's excellent automatic transmissions for all of the TL's sitting on the lots at Carmax

mikegold_1966 · October 2003

Fjm---The Honda Passport was discontinued due to poor sales and quality control problems. GM really helped Honda with this one! It forced Honda to develop their own SUV in the Pilot.

isellhondas--the name of the game is the bottom line. I believe Honda is like any other company in the USA in trying to keep their costs down. When this happens in the automotive industry, quality drops fast.

emale · October 2003

i believe GM is already using a honda v6 (not sure if its the 3.0l or 3.5l) in the saturn vue...

according2me · October 2003

It will be in the European Accord soon. Maybe it will come here.

http://www.honda.co.uk/news/20030901.html

talon95 · October 2003

It's the 3.5...

fjm1 · October 2003

Mikegold: Back in '93 Honda inks a deal to get it's hands on a pre-existing SUV. A decent SUV the Isuzu Rodeo. Honda puts about 10$ into rebadging it and sells a few.

10 years later Honda has two of the most reliable and sought after SUV's on the market. Don't you think they did a TON of R&D and Quality Improvement from the Rodeo to the CRV and Pilot?

My point was that Honda is probably going to do the same thing with this diesel engine they are getting. What's the #1 application for diesel engines?

TRUCKS

lichtronimo · October 2003

Don't forget the MDX.

However, Honda's interest in diesel has nothing to do with trucks and everything to do with Europe, which demands diesel to be competitive in everything from sub-compacts to luxury sedans.

according2me · October 2003

offered in our CRV as an optional engine. It would be great to have a 40mpg+ small suv with the good low-end torque provided by this engine.

anonymousposts · October 2003

While GM has alot of fit-and-finish issues, overall their engines are fairly reliable. You see lots of old Chevys still running, and while all of the interior switches have fallen off along with the paint, the engines are the last to go. Honda may decide to use the engine straight from the box or they could decide to break them down and learn how to build an even better one. Who knows.

lugwrench · October 2003

I would prefer a hybrid over a diesel in a CRV. The hybrid is cleaner and is friendly to the environment. Diesels have always been a polluter and are quite loud.

I read where Toyota will be coming out with a hybrid RAV 4 as well as a hybrid Highlander. Diesels are going to be slowly phased out
in Europe in favor of hybrids and eventually fuel cell vehicles.

ross24 · October 2003

Does anyone know whether the hood can be adjusted up or down by the dealer? I've seen a number of Accords on the lot with hoods that do not line-up very well with the fender. Some hoods are either higher than the fender or too low. Can this be adjusted at all or is the fit permanent?

jebinc1 · October 2003

I've noticed that too. Infact, that problem affects the 03's as well.

emale · October 2003

i've looked over a number of '03 and '04 accords, both coupe and sedan, and haven't noticed any hood fit issues...

isellhondas · October 2003

And I've got lots to look at!

atlantabenny · October 2003

Look at a light-colored Accord's hood cutline right beside the right headlight. Uneven gap's there.

according2me · October 2003

is a whisperer if the above link is to be believed and passes EU emission standards. But more work may need to be done to pass US EPA standards.

The premium for Hybrid technology is still too high (and what is the cost of battery replacement down the line?), but I believe I read where Toyota is licensing Nissan with their technology, so prices may fall sooner than expected if critical mass is achieved.

I haven't read where the EU companies are near to producing any Hybrids (have you?) and I seriously doubt they will let the Japanese capture this market in their continent (quotas??).

If Honda can pass the near future EPA diesel standards, I'd like to have the option of this engine in a couple of their vehicles.

justin · October 2003

i have the beige color - all body panels are aligned perfectly. even the rubber seals along the windows are all 100% uniform.

tblazer503 · October 2003

the front of the hood spacing can be adjusted. when you upen the hood, there are two rubber hood stops on each side of the front. they are threaded into the body and will screw up and down. the alignment of the front of the hood, and the tension on the hood latch can be adjusted this way.

Mine was slightly out of adjustment, but only by a hair, and was very easy to adjust. lined up now...

stekulve · October 2003

My '03 EX has a whistle sound coming from the driver's vent. It seems to have something to do with the climate system. Doesn't always occur, but when it does it drives me crazy. Can anyone tell me what it is, and how to to get it fixed?

mikegold_1966 · October 2003

Have you taken the car to the dealership to investigate the problem? I remember the whistling sound that I use to get from cross winds on my 1995 Accord.

rbruehl · October 2003

I remember my driver's side mirror doing what Mike describes.

dc_sports_rule · October 2003

Are there any stainless steel mufflers that will fit a 1999 Honda Accord EX? I am not looking for a performance muffler since there are many of them out there.

mikegold_1966 · October 2003

If you have the money, I know Mugen has an excellent silent flo muffler.

lugwrench · November 2003

I tend to remember that the generation V Accords had a whistling sound emulating from the driver side mirror. It would happen when there where high winds hitting the mirror causing the whistling.

anselmo1 · November 2003

One notable exception was Honda Motor Co. Ltd. (7267), which said overall sales declined 3 percent due to fewer Accord and Civic buyers.

lugwrench · November 2003

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20031104/6006588.asp

652,000 is a lot isn't it?

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20031104/1005296.asp

Honda sales are down.

tblazer503 · November 2003

about Honda sales being down... maybe I missed it...

gee35coupe · November 2003

But there are NO advertised incentive on them right now. AND they are up for the year. Honda/Acura sales in general are UP 9.8%

zhengying · November 2003

How often you guys change oil? V6 model.
dealer suggest every 3000mi, but owner's manul said 5000mi, C&D review even mention once 10000mi going to be fine. confuse!
btw, what kind of oil is better?
thanks lot!

lugwrench · November 2003

I usually go 3000 miles or every 3 months, whatever comes first. This routine has worked flawlessly for me for many years. I always use the Honda OEM filter.

tblazer503 · November 2003

the current oil change recommendation is the 'maximum' amount of time you can go between oil changes without voiding your warranty.

the 10k is for the 4cyl, I believe 6cyl is 5k. I have the 4cyl and change my oil every 5k.

grizzleybear98 · November 2003

I have a 2004 EX V6 M6 coupe. It has 960 miles on it and has been to the dealer twice to resolve a cracking and rattling coming from the headliner at the windshield header. It sounds as though the headliner is binding and flexing side-to-side as the car goes over irregular surfaces, and the sound intensifies when it is about 50 degrees or below. The dealer claims to have reset the headliner and adjusted the trim panels at the A pillars. They say it is fixed, but on my last trip there this past Thursday, I didn't even clear the door of the service bay area before it began rattling and cracking. Now, I am told that I personally have to show up and replicate the rattle for them. Most annoying. However, a local upholstery shop that I asked to look at it said that improper fitting headliners are a known problem to Honda and that the plastic backing seems to be too stiff. The noise is driving me nuts. Does anyone out here have suggestions or know anything about this sort of problem? How to get Honda to fix it? Any help will be appreciated.

anselmo1 · November 2003

I think the next step would be to have the Honda Regional Representative look into this problem.

obobadr · November 2003

I haven't experienced any whistling sound on the Accord yet.

I used to hear an annoying whistling sound that varies in length (sometimes short "voot" sometimes long "vooooooot") from my 2001 Civic. The sound comes only when the A/C is on, and it doesn't matter if the car is rolling or not. The sound can be heard from the inside and outside of the car.

I never took it to the dealer because I couldnt figure out how or when it will whistle again, it annoyed me enough that it was the main reason I sold it and bought the Accord. May be not to that extent, but my wife needed an excuse for buying another car.

jcihak · November 2003

is every 7500 miles under normal driving, not 5000 miles.

Honda Accord Quality Control Issues

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