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Comments
Second opinions welcome, plus you can ask the car salespeople over in the Real-World Trade-In Values discussion.
Steve, Host
As far as the cost of the vehicle and people off-roading them, the 1997 Range Rover had an MSRP of $55,500 (4.0 SE) or 63,000 (4.6 HSE). The same criticism was levelled then, that it was too expensive to off-road, although you certainly had no problem with taking yours off road (which is commendable, that is where the strength of the vehicle lies). In 1997 Land Rover NA sold 6,826 vehicles in the US. By 2002 the price of the 4.6 HSE had risen to 68,000 and Land Rover NA sold 3,927. The 2003 Range Rover had an MSRP of 71,300 and Land Rover NA sold 13,834 Range Rovers, by far the most ever. Obviously the market finds this vehicle desirable and worth the added cost. From reports of attendance at LR dealer wheels events, there are many customers who have no problem taking the current vehicle off-road.
Detroit already makes diesels. Cummins I-6 turbodiesel powers big Dodge pickup trucks.
"The Cummins 610 Turbo Diesel, available on 2005 models, is more powerful, and particulates and nitrogen oxides (NOx) have been reduced to meet all states' emission standards - even California's. The piston combustion bowl and a high-flow, electronically controlled waste-gated turbocharger match boost pressure with engine needs to reduce emissions. This solution does not require exhaust gas recirculation, avoiding the need for over 50 components.
More to the point for most owners, the 610 has, appropriately, 610 lb.-ft. (827 N•m) of torque starting at 1,600 rpm [and 325 horsepower].
The Cummins turbodiesel also provides an average of 350,000 miles before an overhaul is needed, thanks partly to gallery cooled, high-strength aluminum pistons; gallery cooled, high-strength aluminum pistons, high-strength Inconel® exhaust valves and high-cobalt Stellite® exhaust valve seats, a high-strength exhaust manifold with multi-layer gasket between head and manifold; and forged steel, fracture-split connecting rods.
The Cummins 610 is quieter due to many noise reduction systems, including pilot injection - a short burst of fuel before the main injection which reduces the spike in combustion pressure for dramatically quieter combustion."
- from http://www.allpar.com/model/ram/ram-engine.html
check out
http://www.everytime.cummins.com/every/applications/ram_cummins600.jsp
GM has a great 4.2 liter 275 hp I-6 in their mid-size SUVs. They should put it in their compact pickup trucks and the new 2007 Silverado. Here it is.
Low-sulphur diesel fuel will pollute less when it comes here by next year.
Ford improved their V-8 and V-10 engines for the 2005 Superduty.
New Ford diesel engine for Europe in 2006 I believe.
Haven't heard about the Defender coming back to the States.
If you have some news on the next diesel engine and D110 MJ2006 please keep me posted.
Thanks from Germany,
Bernd
the following at East Coast Rover:
http://www.eastcoastrover.com/FAQ.html
Nonetheless, I'm not sure why it would be much different than when a military person moves overseas and have their used vehicle imported for them.
Especially, if you live in a state like Alabama where there is no emission testing or vehicle inspections. Something to explore because I would like to import a reasonbly priced Defender if possible
Put it in a spread sheet and print it out.
http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/conversions.html
Guy's, the defender needs to come back to the states with diesel engines and in all variations. Especially the Hi-Cap pick ups. Do you know how many people drive trucks in this country? Bringing the defender back with the diesel option in all variations would be a great move. For the company and for the LR purists.
And you don't have to make cost 50,000.00 dollars either!
get this to the big guys!
Thank you,
Chris
I totally hear you! I had a 1972 Land-Rover short wheel base in college. I continue to drive my 1989 Range Rover Classic. I can't say that the new LR3 or the RR Sport makes me want to get interested in Land Rover's again.
I don't have your money, but I defenately would pay a premium for LR, as yo mention, a history and just a good all round truck. A note, even the US special forces use Land Rovers alot. Hummers are design to tow guns and stuff. Not a real people moving in close situation, such as streets or the forests.
I heard they just can't put an airbag in the thing. Souds stupid to me, but that's the British!
As for a diesel, I've decided my next car/truck will have to be one, as I think we are heading the way of Europe with high fuel costs. And the posibility of running Biodiesel. I heard that the main reason the diesels are not here, is becuase the US diesel is dirty. Only VW has an engine that will run on our dirty fuel. In 2006, the diesel will be cleaned up, and parent Ford is making noise, and is tooling up to manufacture v6 and v8 diesels for the USA, and -- for Land Rover!
Here's a cool link to a drawing I saw of a future 2007 Defender. You do know, they are bringing it back in 2007 as a 2008 model? Or is it 2006.
http://www.landrover-center.com/default.asp
and the picture: http://www.landrover-center.com/mnimageview.asp?newsID=234&img=pic1
Granted, the picture is styleized, but you get the idea. I think they are trying to keep the spirt of the Defender. Even though it looks like a cartoon.
Let's hope for the best! Or, we just keep going back to East Coast Rover, and life goes on. By the way, you can import most any car to the USA, if it's 25 years or olders. The first Defender was made in what, 1984?
Ed
Thank you for contacting the Land Rover Customer Relationship Center.
At this time Land Rover does not have any plans to re-introduce the Defender model into the United States. This vehicle requires several design and performance changes in order to be compliant with strict U.S. safety and emissions standards. We appreciate our customer's enthusiasm regarding this vehicle and I will therefore forward your comments to product development for consideration. The last year the Defender was offered in the U.S. was 1997.
Sincerely,
Land Rover North America
I really hope the DO NOT touch/re-design the Land Rover. This is a classic and is just perfect the way it is. Just put in some airbags and meet emission standards.
Well, as I said, my friends I believe the bubble is about to burst. The word is that Land Rover will re-introduce the Defender to America in 2007 as a 2008 model. Sorry all of you who were hoping to rape the next buyer of your lovely utilitarian vehicle. Prices will undoubtedly sink to a more reasonable level on the '93-97 models on the market. Though I don't believe that we will see prices so low as the used stock in G.B., certainly the tides will change. Hopefully Defender will stop being the dream of yuppies everywhere, and more people who actually use the vehicles will have an opportunity to climb in.
When the Defender come back in 2-3 years it will be on the TD6 platform that the LR3/Range Rover Sport use. It might look a lot like the old defender but will be completly different underneath.
All records of maintenance have been kept.
The owner wants 16,000 dollars U.S.
1. Is this diesel motor vehicle importable to the U.S.?
2. What is the estimate of import tariff I would pay?
3. Is this a good price, or are there too many miles on it, or any opinions out there?
Thanks,
gringo1
Upgraded Land Rover Defender Due Out Next Year (Inside Line)
Steve, Host
As far as importing it to the states, maybe this discussion will help:
Importing Canadian Vehicles to the U.S.
Steve, Host
Bad news - although not impossible (it can be done), it is very, very hard and by the time you have finished, you might want to have spent the money on a US Defender.
First the vehicle must either be over 25 years old - rules out all Defenders - or it must be comparable to the original vehicles imported by the manufacturer.
Simply put you can only buy and import a 1993 Defender 110 in Europe, this was the only year the 110 was sold in the US and the only year the DOT will allow you to import. Next you have to bring your European 110 up to the same specifications as the original 1993 NAS 110s. The process is called "Federalizing" the vehicle. There is only one company in the US that is licensed and bonded to do the work - Skytop Rovers in PA.
Expect to pay $15,000 or more to bring your Rover up to NAS standards. This will include the exterior roll cage, rear bumper and lights to name but a few things.
Shipping from UK to the east coast is around $1,500, the west coast about $2,000.
Remember the dollar is weak against the pound sterling at the moment - I sent money to the UK today and the rate was $1.94 to the pound. So if you find a decent 1993 (and remember it will be 13 years old and may already have led a hard life) you might be lucky and pay around ₤3,000 to ₤5,000, roughly speaking about $6,000 to $10,000.
Cost at this point about $27,000. The next question - do you fly to Europe and find the car yourself or buy it online and hope it is what it says it is. Factor that cost in as well.
If the shipper has to pick the car up for you in the UK you may pay anywhere from ₤100 to ₤750 in transport costs - it will depend on the pick up location, then there may be storage fees waiting for your vessel to sail. I last paid ₤20 per week.
There may be duty due upon entry into the US - I don't know, you would have to deal with a Customs broker to advise you, last quote I got was $275.
Then of course you will have to pay any fees to your local DMW.
Overall you may be paying $30,000 to $40,000 for a 13-year-old Land Rover 110. It may be cheaper, but it may not have the wow factor of the original 500 NAS Defender 110s that were brought here.
I don't know about bringing the diesel engine in separately but there are a few Land Rover specialists in the US that are offering conversion from the V8 to the Td5 - cost around $15,000+.
If you have a NAS Defender 90 then East Coast Rover will rebuild it for you into any configuration you want, 110, 130 whatever you like - just be prepared to pay for it. A previous poster paid well over $100,000 for his 110. That being said these are ground up hand rebuilds. I wouldn't want to pay that myself, but the work is quality and some people are prepared to pay the money.
I have used Land Rovers based in the UK as my price model because that is what my research is based on. So lastly it is important to remember that the 110 would be a right hand drive model and that would decrease its value as opposed to the NAS left hand drives.
But take heart, the defender was launched in 1983 and the first models will be available for import in about 18 months.
I hope this helps some of you. It took me quite a while to gather all this information, but feel free to do hours and hours of research on your own if you want to confirm or deny it.
One final word of warning - if anyone tells you that they can legally sell you a Defender that doesn't match the years of official import by Land Rover North America - I would run, if it isn't on the DOT approved list and you buy it, you run the risk of having the vehicle seized and destroyed. Caveat Emptor.
Any thoughts?
You raise an interesting question. You are proposing buying an early defender and restoring it with late model parts.
Technically there is nothing to stop you from doing that, but like everything you may run into some problems. You could buy an '83 110 and rebuild it from the ground up, chassis, interior, doors, engine, transmission, etc. You would effectively have a "brand new" 110 defender that you could bring into the US in 2008 - not a problem for you as you will be in Germany till at least then.
Your problems may begin with the EPA. As I understand it to be exempt from EPA requirements the engine must be 21 years or older(the 25 year mark is for DOT safety standards). Nothing to stop you from re conditioning the original engine, but if you put a newer engine in, say a TD300 that is less than 21 years old you may not be able to import the car legally - unless that engine has been certified to meet with all of the applicable EPA standards.
Next consideration - even if the EPA lets the car in, your state may have its own restrictions.
All in all if you recondition an older defender with a 3.5 V8 you should sail through the importation process. Like everything, do your homework first, do not take everything I have said as Gospel - double check and confirm everything.
Good luck - and enjoy the World Cup.
Basicly reVINing a new mini built during the 90s with the VIN from a mini built in the 70s or earlier.
This allows them to import the new car as a 25 year old vehicle.
I don't know what the worst consequences might be, but the importation forms are Federal - and knowingly committing perjury to the Feds, well I can't imagine the consequences are good.
Furthermore it may not be the original importer that ends up suffering the loss of the motor vehicle. A second or third buyer may end up having the vehicle seized and destroyed. They won't face any criminal consequences, but they will be out the cost of the car and most likely their only recourse would be a civil suit against the person responsible for altering the VIN - and in all likelihood they will come up against a judgment proof defendant.
Not all robbery or burglary suspects get caught - I am not convinced that is a good reason to commit robbery or burglary. While altering the VIN may not rise to the level of these crimes in the minds of some - it involves fraud, it involves deception, it involves perjury and it is wrong.
Who knows what other "steps" were taken to get that car into the US?
I don't think I have to go through an importer, I think the military will contract the shipping, it just needs to get through U.S. customs and they do that here.
Although it is early days for you, the current forms are: DOT form HS-7 and EPA form 3520-1 - but they may change before you are ready to do the move.
The comment on changing the VIN was posted by someone else, check my earlier post, I am pretty sure that you could rebuild a 1983 110 from the ground up as long is it is maintains its original form/character.
As to a different engine broken down for spares, you are outside my area of research, so I don't really know if there are EPA concerns or not. There are some Land Rover places in the US that already offer conversions to the later diesel engines, it might just be easier to have one of them do the work.
I think the only way to get past the EPA is to keep the original 25 year old engine. I can always ship the new one back as a spare.
I can email you the forms to review if you like, there may be some information on them that is useful to you
I think lots of people miss it here. That's why people try to import these on there own. I certainly want one. A Land Rover dealership just isn't the same without the Defender in the showroom.
As for the Defender maybe 2010.
They have already made one update to the defender about a year ago to cut down on production costs. They made some production changes to decrease the amount of man hours required to build each defender. That extended the lifespan of the current design to around 2009/2010. I would be very surprised if they make changes to place an airbag on the defender so it can be sold here in its current form. Although I would love to get the defender here again in a year or so I think it makes more financial sense for Land Rover to spend the money adapting the LR3/RRS platform to a defender architecture.
Nice! Too bad we won't get this one in the US!
I was seriously tempted and asked specifically how they were able to di it... I also got the story about "it is a 1986 rebuilt with new parts, with a 1986 VIN on it." also, he noted they have no airbags, the seat belts are dodgy at best and it rides like a school bus in the highway.
That still didn't scare me off, until he dropped the bomb on me: "The heater doesn't really work well as it was primarily designed to be in tropical climates... so you'll probably have to wear your winter boots and coat all the time in the winter"
Ok, stop all the cold winter in Canada Jokes... 50% of the Canadian population lives further south than the guys in North Dakota and Wisconsin, and we get a weather blurb around the great lakes that makes Toronto warmer than Buffalo... but still, we can sometimes get some stinkin cold winters....
So the wife-acceptance factor fell from "slightly interested, but improbable" to "no-frickin-way" at that word about the heater being sub-par. (side note - with the 2007 Defender announcement, I notice they stress multiple times how much better the heater is!)
Anyways, for those Edmunds readers in Canada, you can get them legally here now.
/DA
It's true that the regular heater in the Land Rover may have a problem with extreme cold, but Land Rovers have operated just about everywhere in the world and there is a solution - the Kodiak heaters were designed for arctic use and do an excellent job keeping your truck toasty.
Without questioning the information that you have received - my reading suggests that it is a 15 year rule in Canada, so possibly you could find a newer Defender than the one you have listed, I am not 100% sure on the Canadian rule, so please double check - my research has primarily related to US cars and I came across the Canadian info during all of my reading.
Also, the price is outrageous - $75,900 Canadian!!! Follow this link for a 1983 200Tdi in Canada for $13,500 US. It's RHD but can be converted for a nominal price. I'm not really up on the current exchange rate, even though the US dollar is stronger than the Canadian I am pretty sure that $13,500 US is nowhere near $75,900 Canadian. Here's the link: http://www.britrest.com/
Good luck.
Considering that I just started leasing an almost $75,000 (Canadian)LR3 HSE, if I was really into the hardcore offroading (rather than the light for-fun stuff I probably will be doing at 'safe' vendor-sponsored events) then this one would have been a serious consideration.
Even more tempting is this little baby. A 1993 NAS Defender 110, but even better for me is that it was one of the original 25 sent to Canada.... should be really easy for me to import back here - or so I would assume?
Right now the wife and I are still very apprehensive about the high cost of our new LR3 (This is our first luxury vehicle, and Canada has higher taxes than the US making similar-costing things harder to purchase due to the higher cost of living - even with an exchange rate calculation).
It's possible that after we have had some time to get to know the LR3 and Land Rover as a brand, that we will consider something more rugged - and also after we decide if we are going to buy the LR3 after our lease runs its term.
One flight of fancy is that we would like to pick up an older Porsche Boxster (or Boxster S) from the mid-to-late 90's when our current sedan dies (1997 Dodge Avenger ES).
That would make a nice addition to the garage..
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I'm tired of specialist dealers selling used Defenders at inflated prices. These vehicles are relatively cheap on the second hand market in the UK, but selling at Porsche prices here.
I'm new to forums so I'm not to sure how they work.
I just bought a 94 D90 and love it but could use a little more power.
Does anyone make bolt on power mods i.e. - headers/cold air intakes/throttle body spacers/superchargers/etc.
I'm also looking for a surrey top, winch, and Emu springs.
Also can you fit 15" wheels on the D90 - 33/12.50 r15 tires are the best all around off/on road tires I've used because of the soft side wall for grip when you air-down and on-road ride quality.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanx,
JP Simons
thepeeg@hotmail.com
We don't recommend putting email address in posts though - that's a sure guarantee that you'll get spam, since the spammers have widgets to hunt them down (we do camouflage the @ sign but that doesn't slow all of the spambots down).
You can mark your email public in your profile and then other members could contact you that way by clicking on your user name.
Sucks, seeing how bad I want to buy one. The used Defenders out there are waaay to expensive for the mileage and wear they have on them. If I bought an '07 right from the Solihull Factory I could get it for about $30-40k, but then I'd have to get it to meet emissions and US safety standards. Used ones typically list about that same price and are 10+ years older.
Mr. Flickenschild, thank you for the note. I wish you happy motoring with your Land Rover and thank you for being an enthusiast and loyal customer for the Land Rover brand. We all would like to see the Defender return in our model line up for the North America market and will continue to look at our options with that model and viability for the NA market.
Gary L. Temple
President
Jaguar Land Rover North America
That being said, it appears that the return of the Defender is still plausible and not out of the minds of the "gate keepers" here in North America. I'd rather spend $30-40k on a new Defender with low mileage and no rust rather than forking over the same or more for someone else's rusty high mileage Defender which we still all love and admire.