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You're right about fuel economy. I really want to test drive an Aveo to see how it compares to the xB, I've only sat in one up until this point.
We need to come up with some hard and fast rules about what qualified as an xB and Aveo competitor. Upright 5-door wagon? What makes them different from other wagons? Distance from c-pillar to rear window?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
But this isn't the same thing as someone thinking their post was erased ...
I will say that the car that impressed me the most, the one that made my mouth fall open when I saw it was not a sedan. It was the new Dodge Magnum. Very nice modern re telling of the station wagon.
In Melbourne it's mostly Holdens, Fords (e.g. Falcons), and the usual mix of Toyotas, Mazdas, and the rest. The cars are generally larger than in Singapore and Hong Kong.
One thing about buying a car in Singapore: you first need to buy a certificate that allows you to buy a car. The certificate costs almost as much as the car! Needless to say, lots of people use the excellent mass-transit system rather than own a car. The result is that even during rush-hour, the traffic didn't seem too bad. The taxis have bells that go off if the drivers exceed 100 kph. The drivers don't seem to mind the incessant ringing, but it got on my nerves a little. In both Singapore and Hong Kong, taxi fares are quite low, so using taxis to get around is feasible. There's also buses, ferries (Hong Kong), and trains (HK and Singapore).
Have to get to bed, and get ready for 18 hours in the air tomorrow.
* Best car for least money: Aveo 5-door. Surprising passenger room and comfort, and interesting styling; available for under $8500 with current incentives.
* Best interior: Kia Spectra LX. Very upscale interior, especially in tan, with high-quality materials and two-tone color treatment. Less plasticky than the Mazda3, which also has a classy interior for a (barely) low-end car.
* Best exterior styling: Mazda3i. Looks like a 3 Series for 1/2 the price.
* Best value: Hyundai Elantra GLS. 138 hp VVT engine, comfortable and roomy interior, smooth controls, clear displays, SABs, remote locking/alarm, and full power all for under $11k with current incentives (including $500 Auto Show rebate).
* Most unique (tie): Scion xA and xB. Teenagers and 20-somethings were swarming all over them. Looks like Toyota hit its target market.
Some other notable low-end and near-low-end cars there were:
* Chevy Cobalt: exterior is pretty bland, but the interior looks sharp and a huge step above the Cavalier.
* Elantra GT: just misses the low-end cutoff, but a huge bargain; fully loaded with automatic, moonroof, ABS/traction, MP3, alloys, leather is under $15k with current incentives. Almost as roomy (and in some cases roomier) than midsized hatchbacks like the Prius and Mazda6.
* Kia Spectra: a huge step above the old Spectra inside and out, but not a great value IMO. The LX is just a little less than the Elantra GLS but has no A/C or power windows/locks/mirrors. It does have four-wheel disc brakes and side bags/curtains however. No hatchback on display--won't be for sale for a couple of months yet according to the Kia rep at the show.
* Suzuki Forenza S: an appealing car styling-wise, and lots of passenger room and features for the money. Too bad powertrain doesn't match the rest of the car.
It's one thing to have 20-somethings swarming over your product, it's another for them to put their hands in their pockets and buy one. I hope for Toyota's sake they do. If they don't Toyota will just try again with something different. Anybody know what sales of Scions are like where they are already on sale?
~alpha
I thought the Mazda3 looked great until you got to the backend. The placement of the center brake light just looked wrong.
I did see the Aveo five door and was sorry to see that there was not an Aveo sedan to take a look at. I don't recall seeing the Cobalt, but from what I have seen in pictures, the sides remind me of the Cavalier while the front and back look to have an Integra influence.
At my autoshow too, there were a lot of younger people swarming around the Scion display. There were a number of people my age too. I hope the Scions succeed because if I decide to keep the Major and tune him, the success of the Scions should mean there will be upgrades for them that I can use on him.
Foremost in my mind is still the SRT-4. If I get one, I will get yellow with no sunroof and the R/T seats.
Does anyone know if GM is going to do the driving tour this year?
Perhaps we should change the name to Entry Level Autos: Japanese vs. (you know the rest).
Although low-end, or entry-level, cars are popular, I wonder if the majority of Edmunds.com devotees are after the big and/or fast iron. Maybe we could get more interest in a board named "Big SUVs Over $30k."
the aveo is ok. hate the spectra.
favourite is accent.
if i were in australia and knew how 2 drive a right hand drive car, i'd pick the ford falcon v8 s my favurite low end car. the price for the base model after discounts converts back 2 less than 20k usd, and, imho, is a low end bmw 5 v8 wannab.
Have you seen the redesigned Spectra? It's lightyears ahead of the old one IMO.
All discussions can be categorized in such a way that they will show up in specific make/model search lists. However, the categorizations are limited to six vehicles.
I put two Japanese, two American and two Korean vehicles in the categories - you can see this by looking at the header here.
And on that note, I will propose a title change. There are no European vehicles under $15k - how about if we drop that from the title?
I don't want to get too caught up in discussing the discussion :-) but if any of you feel strongly that I haven't picked the most representative 6 vehicles, tell me about it over the next couple of days. Then we'll get back to talking about the cars and see if we don't get some more input than we've had lately.
Okay?
:-)
Maybe we should just call this Low End Sedans without regard to the so-called nationality of the brand? After all, that's pretty much a red herring these days, anyway.
I don't know why that is, I just know that it IS.
no. i havent. though without seeing it, i would say it wouldnt change my opinion.
in the kia range if i were after low end, i would probably gravitate towards the rio...
Ford Falcon
15k usd. wow.that would b great if it were the base model 8 cylinder manual...
now if only ford would bring the car here @ that price point...
i still have some doubts about the accent because its korean, and the echo's styling doesnt sit well with me.
the spectra just doesnt seem right as a 2nd car. possibly the rio. but it would have to be a fair bit cheaper than the accent to be attractive.
ps- currently we have a corolla and a maxima. both are base model stick shifts. im looking to upgrade the maxima, hopefully to something german and 8 cylinder, while downgrading the corolla, either to echo or somethin korean...
Regards,
Kyle
But I did make it Sedans rather than Cars, since that's the board we're on.
Carry on!
Dinu
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The 3i has to be put on the list. If you just chose A/C does it come under $15K USD? In Canada it retails for under $17K+$1000 A/C - still a good price, although TOO close to a well-equipped Elantra sedan with A/C+all power.
Dinu
1) Korean car companies are often on the verge of bankruptcy.
2) The "dealer" always seemed to be primarily engaged in selling something else. The KIA or Daewoo line appeared to be just an afterthought.
3) My experience with Korean cars that friends owned was that they were not well made and broke down often especially after 30 or 40 thousand miles. These were cars made in the early 90s.
4) I thought the Korean cars I looked at were not as well made as the Japanese cars.
5) The cars were ridiculously low to the ground and difficult to get in and out of.
In spite of that, Korean cars are what low end cars are all about. Luckily I had enough money to buy an ECHO, the high end of the low end scale. But I wonder what the experiences of people who own Korean cars made recently is. How do they hold up? (examples please) How is service? Can they get parts? Do they honor the warranty?
I loved the Sephia and wanted to try a different Kia model so in Sept.of 2001 I traded the Sephia in on a 2001 Kia Sportage 4x4. It needed a radiator replaced at the 15,000 mile mark and two power window regulators went out and needed replacing. A better fitting gas cap had to be put on that wouldn't trigger the check engine light and the fuel filler door mechanism needed a new latch installed. All of this was done under warranty at no cost but a little of my time was necessary, of course. It helps to have a good dealer and dealer's service department and I have expreienced both in Washington state where I bought them and now in mid-Missouri, too. They've always started and never stranded me and their performance has been real good overall. As you can read, not perfect by any means, but nothing that scares me away from the brand. The Long-Haul is nice but not the reason I bought my Kia's. BTW-the Sportage doesn't qualify for "low-end" as most of you know, either. I bought mine for $17,075.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2001 Elantra GLS, purchased new 10/2000, 26,400 miles as a daily (almost) driver, mostly short-distance city driving:
How do they hold up? Very well. Still looks and runs like new (except for a couple scrapes on the bumper and small dings on the doors). Interior shows no wear, except some grime on the mats. Has been out of service due to fault of the car for a total of one hour (O2 sensor) in 3.5 years.
How is service? Fair to good. Main problem with my dealer is they can take 2-3 shots to fix something, in particular a dash rattle. But they at least do try and have never refused to fix something, even after the 1 year/12k "adjustments" warranty expired. I use this one dealer because it's the most convenient for me and I like the fact that if there is some screw-up we all know exactly who to blame.
Can they get parts? This has never been a problem, but then my car has not needed many parts, and I live in a large metro area.
Do they honor the warranty? So far, yes. See above re going above and beyond the warranty.
Like I've stated before, I'm seeing no good reasons to not buy Kia again. For those of you dying to know which one it might be...well, I'm keeping a close eye on the 2005 Kia Sportage and it's development, that I am!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The Accent also has the most absurdly long throws (5-spd) of any car I've ever driven. If you have bad shoulders, skip it.
I don't know much about the ION, but it's so unpopular that I might recommend an Elantra, Aveo, or Focus instead. (Accent too)
Will Mazda please bring their Micra over? (not related to sedans) I can't remember what this was called in Japan anymore, but that is such a cool car.