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Comments
Personally, I'd take the Matrix over the Aerio, although I haven't seen the '05 Aerio which I understand has significant improvements.
By "Cobalt goes here" do you mean you'd rate it #1 in this group?
1. Mazda3 - it is built on the Volvo S40 platform and if you look closely it is almost the same car. Here is a link to a review:
http://www.automedia.com/buyers_guide_04/content/usb40mac17.asp?a- ffid=
2. Scion tC - great looks and 160 horsepower.
http://www.automedia.com/autoReviews/scion/tc/2005/rts20041001st.- asp?affid=
3. Honda Civic - boring but reliable and good on gas. http://www.automedia.com/autoReviews/rts20040401hc/rts20040401hc.- asp?affid=
~alpha
P.S. It's NOT the same warranty as the Koreans offer.
Did not like the 03 Aerio SX I drove-- digital dash was a huge turnoff and the entire feel of the car was different, although the 05 also had a 5-speed.
Matrix OK but NOISY. xB great around town but turning 3500 rpm @ 70 mph and NOISY as well.
-end quote-
I am curious as why you think it is a dog? With a stick the 150HP and 165# torque seems like enough to me. Rev it up between shifts! It looks pretty cool to me too. That said, the Mazda3 is a winner, I think. As for Suzuki, I would worry about the resale and number of dealerships. If you are talking simply under $20k, you can add a base Accord, Mazda6, Altima and a whole bunch of those which are good choices. Most add on stuff is just more junk to go bad, and costing money in the process.
The Spectra is a nicer car than the Aveo or Accent, but it's also much more expensive. Considering Accents and Aveos are avilable for under $9000, I consider either one a much better value than the Spectra - I can see no reason to buy the unremarkable Spectra, when there are so many other excellent cars of the same size and price - considering its poor crash performance. It doesn't stand out.
[keep in mind, the Aveo and Accent don't really compete with $15k cars, but I am factoring price into the equation]
alpha01-
We definitely agree on the Matrix and Aerio. I think the Aerio is one of the most underrated cars out there right now. And the Aerio has a 100,000 mile warranty, even if it's only 7 years. Matrix is as boring as a Corolla, but heavier, and less fuel efficient. Don't get me wrong, the Corolla is a great car, it's just more
m1miata-
You know, I always liked the PT Cruiser - very cool looking, but i never drove one until about 4 months ago. And I took a fairly spirited test drive (to be fair, it was an automatic), and I was really disappointed [gf only drives an auto]. It was extremely slow (felt slower than the Aveo, even though it probably isn't), and soft handling.
I wouldn't buy any car without nearby dealerships, but there are plenty of Suzuki dealers in LA.
The Aveos and Accents I'm talking about have standard AC (Assuming that is what SAC stands for) I don't think the Accent is available without anymore.
I also don't think the Spectra has more interior passenger space than the Aveo, it's very space efficient. It does have more power, and more performance, but it's not a quick car, and is probably only marginally faster than either.
The way I view this list is, 10 different cars to buy. The Spectra isn't any better of an economy sedan than most cars on the list, and it's not cheaper to own or drive than the Aveo or Accent. It's an also ran. If somebody really wanted the Spectra on the list, it would have to be behind the following high quality econo-sedans that can b had for under $15k.
Civic, Corolla, Sentra, Elantra, Aerio, Cobalt, Focus, and Mazda 3. And I don't consider it any more desireable than an Echo, Matrix, Reno/Forenza, xA, xB, Accent, or Aveo. (to round out the list of sub-$15k cars I'd rather have)
I consider it more in a league with:
Cavalier, PT Cruiser, Neon, Rio, Lancer, Sunfire, or ION.
I'd put the Spectra ahead of the Sentra, Aerio, Echo, Reno/Forenza, xA, xB (on styling alone!) in addition to the Accent and Aveo. I think the Lancer doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as the likes of the Cavalier, Neon, Rio, Sunfire, and ION. Although the ION is improving bit by bit--still outclassed by its cousin the Cobalt though. The Lancer is a solid, roomy, modern compact with good quality and a great warranty. Still a notch below the leaders though. The Aerio is getting there but I still wouldn't put it in the top 10.
BTW, SAC = side air curtains.
I still see Accents for under $7k, but I did think they had a/c, maybe I'm wrong.
These are 04s, not 05s. But at these prices, you are still going to do just fine on depreciation, especially if you keep the cars for many years.
The Spectra is a nicer car to live with, but I still don't know if I would go for it. It's an interesting choice at $11k, but I'm still not convinced it's worth the extra money.
I'm going to discuss the rankings in the next post.
1. Civic - HX is tops for $15k or less.
2. Mazda 3 - Great cars.
3. Corolla - Top notch. (wouldn't buy one)
4. Cobalt - ...if reliability holds up.
Tier 2:
5. Focus - Don't be scared by 5 year old recalls.
6. xA/xB - the best small cars in the segment.
7. Aerio - There is a lot in this package.
8. Elantra - Hyundai has come a long way.
9. Sentra - I see these for under $9k.
10. Matrix - Don't like it. A Toyota.
11. Echo - Underrated, overpriced.
12. Aveo - A cheaper alternative to an xA.
13. Accent - Very solid.
14. Reno/Forenza - ...if reliability holds up.
Tier 3:
15. Lancer - Decent, nothing remarkable.
16. PT Cruiser - Good looks, base model stinks.
17. ION - Good price, quad coupe is a nice design.
18. Spectra - Unsafe at any speed?
Tier 4:
19. Cav/Sunfire - Nice engine. Poor safety.
20. Neon - Definitely not an SRT-4.
21. Rio - Worst car in America!
I wouldn't regard the IIHS report as weighty enough to stop me from getting one and I would also give Kia the nod in the looks department for the new Spectra over the Hyundai Elantra's looks as well.
Has Kia watered down the looks of the new 2006 Rio too much from the concept's new unusual shape? Anybody else see that yellow '06 Rio concept on the net? As usually happens the production '06 Rio looked much tamer.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I'm still waiting for the first car from Kia that I think is a good buy. I have no doubt it will come, but it hasn't yet.
The new Spectra is much nicer than I ranked it, but I just don't think it's a good idea to drive a car that can't handle an accident. There's no reason to buy one when there are better and safer options out there.
As for the Spectra not being able to handle an accident... Kia really blew it on the IIHS frontal offset test, yes, similar to what Hyundai did with the '01 Elantra. But Hyundai made a minor change to the Elantra's seat track and now it's rated Good by the IIHS. I hope Kia management learns from this and doesn't take 3 years to do something about the Kia's test result. That one test doesn't make me think the Spectra is an unsafe car, but I personally wouldn't buy one until the problem is corrected because there are cars that are just as good (like the Elantra) available for the same or less money.
~alpha
I've never understoody why the Optima depreciates so much faster than a Sonata since they're essentially the same car. Just recently gave my Elantra to my daughter and purchased a Malibu Maxx. Thought carefully about purchasing a (soon to be replaced) Optima/Sonata but was worried about Optima's depreciation and the local Hyundai dealer is becomming increasingly smarmy.
Not sure why the Optima is such an awful car unless you feel the Sonata is too. I realize the JD Power ratings for Sonata are better, but personally I prefer the Optima's front end styling. Probably just me, however, since Edmunds Optima board has been dead for months.
Here are my observations of daily life with a Spectra EX:
- Does it have quality?
After 7k hard Michigan-road miles, my Spectra EX has yet to experience any problems. The only defect to date was a 3rd brake LED that was replaced promptly. So far nothing's broken or fallen off. There are no squeaks and no rattles... even when the temps are down near 0, driving on bomb cratered-like roads.
Morning starts (even at 0 degrees) have been instantaneous followed by fast engine and interior warm-ups.
- Does it have value?
Again, let's compare real-life experiences. How many of the cars listed here will give you the following for $13,300? : Power moonroof, alloy rims, fog lights, 6-speaker CD, power windows, power heated mirrors, power locks, power trunk release, tilt wheel, cruise, rear defrost, side airbags, keyless remote, rear spoiler, matching floormats, mudflaps, rear seat heat ducting, and in my car's case hand-painted dual pinstripes?
Performance is also extremely good for a "low-end" car. Acceleration is good, the automatic transmission shifts smoothly, and the 4-wheel disc brakes stop the car on a dime. The extemely tight turning radius has also saved me a ton of grief in tight driving and parking situations. Fuel mileage is probably my biggest gripe about the car. It's not bad, but it's not class-leading either. Hopefully the newer Theta-class engines by Hyundai/KIA will fix this problem whenever they're implemented.
Read a few reviews in the Edmunds Spectra forum to learn about too-numerous-to-list-here additional features of the car.
==================
So, to summarize, for $13,300 (pre-tax) I've got a stylish, fully featured (with features that I find important), modern compact car that has the largest interior space rating of its class and runs and rides extremely well, while exhibiting extremely good initial build quality .
Is it perfect.... of course not.
Are there other cars out there similar to it for approximately the same money? Probably.
Are there cars on this thread's list that is perceived as superior overall to the Spectra but in reality aren't. Very likely.
Final word? IMHO, to call this car an "Also Ran" is inaccurate.
-SM
http://spectraman.freeservers.com
backy, yes, the '05 Kia Sportage is a great deal for $16,000. My '01 Sportage has been a great rig and trading is not required now, but a Smart Blue or Volcanic Red '05 Kia Sportage is up there at the top of my futures list along with the Scion tC, another great value. It'll take a couple of nice long test drives to be able to make a decision.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Thanks for the feedback on your Elantra. How many miles do you have on your car, and what has your defects (if any) been?
Your car's ABS, traction control, and leather seating surfaces are definitely upgrades compared to my car.
My dealer has a CRM point system they subscribe to that made it easy for me to get 4,000 points that covers oil changes and scheduled maintenance for what should work out to be the first couple of years, so I consider that about even with your car's program.
And as fars the looks go, I lean towards the Spectra and the pinstripes. Those items are definitely personal choice items though... no right... no wrong. :-) The local pinstriping guy DID do a whale of a job on my car though when he put on a set of one thick/one thin medium brown and straw *painted* pinstripes on the side body character line. Quite a few people that has seen these have commented on them positively. Like you, I generally detest *tape* stripe packages on cars.
So.... who else out there wants to throw their buying choice and experiences out here for discussion?
-SM
As far as low end new car value for the dollar. For the basic transportation, I've seen the last of the 2004 Aveo's going for $7995 and these are the LS that included the A/C and had automatics. Much better driver than my 96 Geo Metro, eventually when the wheels fall off my Geo, I will be looking hard at the Aveo. Preferably a slightly used one at $6,000 or so.
I don't think the Focus is competitive once the price gets above $15k. But this one dealership nearby always advertises a new ZX3s w/AC and a 5spd for $8883, or something like that. Now that is a fantastic deal. I think the Focus is a good car, but nobody should pay a premium for one.
csandste-
Was there an Optima before the current model? I might be thinking of a different car.
spectraman-
The Spectra would have finished much higher if it weren't for the safety scores. Why buy one when the Elantra has better features AND crash test scores?
fushigi-
I bet that if you buy a Focus for $8883, your residual value in 5 years will be very competitive.
iluv-
I'm looking forward to the next Rio also.
As far as resale value, Edmunds doesn't recognize that many cars sell way below invoice. In 2001 I bought an Elantra with group II (cruise and remote locks) for $11.2, last week I bought a Malibu Maxx for $16.2. Both were way under Edmunds target price. I doubt if I could get that kind of percentage off a Honda or Toyota.
After reading Backy's Elantra report, I agree with you about buying an Elantra vs. a Spectra based on features, IIHS rated safety, and cost alone.
In *my* case, the reasons I would still choose the Spectra are these:
- Dealer location. I have a brand new stand-alone KIA dealer about 2 miles from my home. I'm not sure how far the nearest Hyundai dealer is, but it's definitely much further than that. Based on my repair experiences with Fords and Chryslers in the past, proximity to the dealer for warranty repairs would have been a major perk! ;-) So far though, the proximity benefit has only been used once!
- Exterior and interior styling. I've looked over the Elantra (post-Spectra purchase) and I really do like the Spectra's exterior and interior styling and appointments much better. I do wish the leather seats would have been available on the Spectra EX, but the cloth they used is pretty plush and appears to be of high quality like the various car magazine articles noted.
--------------
My take on the Spectra's safety? Well based on IIHS' offset test, I lose on this point when compared to the Elantra. I still think that the Spectra is overall a fairly safe vehicle though based on how well it retained it's structure integrity in the IIHS test, the IIHS ratings for rear end collisions, and NHSA's decent ratings.
I definitely don't consider it a "deathtrap" as some of the contributors on here seem to deem it based on the tone of their postings.
-SM
I like the Spectra5.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/insiders/0502/14/01-88602.htm
EXCERPT:
Korean giant flexes its muscles
By John McCormick / Autos Insider
A decade ago people would chuckle at the sight of Korean engineers and designers crawling around cars and trucks at auto shows with tape measures, cameras and clip boards.
These days, the results of their endeavors are no laughing matter for other automakers, especially the Japanese brands. At this year's Detroit and Chicago auto shows, evidence of just how the far Korea's Hyundai/Kia auto conglomerate has come was there for all to see.
On my 4.5-year-old '01 Elantra GLS, it has 31,000 miles now and is holding up very well. Just one part failure, an O2 sensor (replaced under warranty), and a squeak in the clutch that was addressed during an oil change. Also a little window trim strip had to be replaced under warranty because the black tape came loose and the metal underneath started to rust. Other than a cold-weather rattle that had resisted correction, I have no complaints. The car drives and rides great (on its new Kumho tires), interior still looks new, and the paint is also like new save for some little dings here and there.
almost 9k, zero problems, 1 recall for heated seats.
drive it many times because i like to, not because i have to.
"Ctrl-Z" and or the Back button are your friends ...
Not to criticize yours or anyone else's tastes, but more as an explanation of my own, check out these two sets of photos:
Elantra rear:
http://www.elantraxd.com/Misc/spoiler2.jpg
Elantra front:
http://images.intellichoice.com/Large/04270ElanGT%5B%5B%5D%5D%5B%- - - 5B%5D%5D4552_2.gif
Spectra rear:
http://www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/roadtest/04.kia.spectra/04- .kia.spectra.r34.500.jpg
Spectra front:
http://www.autonews.com/files/2004NAIAS/kia/images/KiaSpectra1.jp- - - g
I followed an Elantra 5-door GT (with it's tail lights turned on) in to work today, and I finally realized that it's the front and rear light treatments that I dislike the most. The rear end of the Elantra reminds me of a snake (or insect) face with two glowing red eyes and fangs. A goofy observation... I know. But that's how it strikes me. :-)
The front end isn't offensive, but it doesn't strike me as symetrical and streamlined as the Spectra's.
-SM
In both cases the hatches are far better looking from the side then the sedans. The Elanta a bit like a 90's Saab, the Spectra like the Mazda Pro5.
Not quite as good looking as the European Focus, but it's a start. Same US prohibitions agains small upscale cars will probably apply-- of course I love hatches.
BTW, the rear end of the Elantra GT you pictured is NOT the current model. The '04-05 GT hatchback doesn't have the big wing spoiler, but a smaller, integrated spoiler which I happen to prefer (it doesn't scream, "hey, look, I got a spoiler!"). Also I think the Rally Red GT is particularly sharp (of course, because I have one).
I use to like the Elantra until this last styling update. I dislike the front. I really like the spectra. I walk buy a silver blue one in the office parking lot everyday. Very sharp. I would buy the spectra 5 door because I am a hatchback lover. If I were to buy a sedan it would have to be the model with the darker cloth seats. I really dislike the extremely light gray cloth in the standard spectra interior. I know that basically they are the same car under the skin. I'm sure each will be a good car. My sister and brother have both owned Kia's and have had no problems. My sister drives 60000 miles a year for her job. Her Kia has held up well.
For: Looks like a European car
Against: Milksop engines
Sum up: Could be Kia's best yet
They must not have driven it because they didn't give it a "star" rating. BTW, the Cerato can be had with both a 1.6L and 2.0L engine in the UK.
Their reviews on some other low-end cars are hilarious, e.g. the Accent:
For: Cheap
Against: And that's it
Sum up: Please don't do it, please
They rate it "Worst in Class". Well, personally I think that's a little harsh, but they do have lots of great small cars over there--most of which we don't get here in the States.
Oh, and on the Elantra (since we were doing Spectra vs. Elantra earlier):
For: Lots of kit
Against: Lots of depreciation
Sum up: Lots of reasons not to
They gave it one star--same as the Accent. But it appears to only be available in a 2.0L diesel in the UK, if the magazine is accurate.
btw.. pat, ctrl+z would have been my friend. thanks for the info!
Here is my car:
http://www.tcinternet.net/users/backman5/p1010050.jpg
http://www.tcinternet.net/users/backman5/p1010051.jpg
(Yes, that is actually MY car--not just one that looks like it.)