Low End Sedans (under $16k)

explorerx4 · March 2005

i have a 2.3 zts focus with 10k miles on it. it's much better car than i thought it would be. didn't cost much either. it has a moonroof and heated seats, so it's a pleasure in warm or cold weather. averaging about 28 mpg. 99% of trips are 2, 5 or 13 miles one way.
insurance-wise, the focus is the most expensive vehicle we have.

lovetosavegas · March 2005

True, the current Focus is a fine riding car. But I wish I'd test drive the new Euro Focus, since it was already available in Europe when I was shopping for a car. Then I am not sure if they would be able to bring the price down to where we could compare it to Elantra's

Right now the rebates on Cobalt aren't great either. But I'd seriously consider one with the Cavalier rebates :shades: Again I don't need big rear seat and I've read that driver comfort is good in Cobalt. Crash test scores are pretty important as well.

ericf1 · March 2005

You're not going to get big incentives on the Cobalt because it's pretty hot right now. The Cavalier is crap.

I am also mainly purchasing the car for myself, so safety is a bigger consideration than a large rear seat. BTW- The Cobalt Coupe has more interior space than the Sedan. Look at the specs.:)

I wish I could get a good deal on a Subaru Impreza, we're talking a whole other class of car there. Even though it's an older model, it still has some decent crash-test ratings even without side-airbags. Better frame, 16-inch tires, AWD and better engine. Now if only I could afford it. Here in the Boston area even used Subarus don't cost much less than new ones.

backy · March 2005

If you mean the Cobalt specs at chevrolet.com, they are wrong. There is no way the coupe has more interior room than the sedan. Just look at them! Or try sitting in both of them (as I have done). Same wheelbase, same general seat positions, but the coupe has a fastback and the sedan a formal roofline. For the correct interior volume numbers, try this:

http://www.gmcanada.com/english/vehicles/2005/chevrolet/cobalt/coba_opti.html#Interior

One thing that is interesting to note is that the new Accent, which used to be a sub-compact, has more interior volume (92 cubic ft.) than the Cobalt, which is a much bigger car. Even Chevy's own Aveo has much more interior room than the Cobalt. Well, if rear seat room isn't a priority that's not too important I guess.

There's some pretty decent discounts on Cobalts in my town--around $3000 off MSRP for advertised prices. With a GM credit card and a little haggling, who knows how much you could get off on one of those?

As for the Impreza, Subaru has (had?) a great lease deal on those--$189 month with 0 down. You would be hard-pressed to get anything comparable (even w/o AWD) for less.

nickps · April 2005

I agree my newly purchased 2005 Ford Focus had a sticker price just under 19,000 dollars. Although my car has leather, heated seats, a six cd changer and remote stereo controls that is a lot for the car. This is especially true for a Focus since it is a compact vehicle. I ended up paying 15,500 for it. To me this car is no where near low end and i am so glad i purchased it. This is the most fun car i have ever owned. I must say it is the nicest too. The Focus handles like a high performance vehicle probably because it has perelli tires which came with it. That right there tells you it is not a low end car. I suggest it to anyone that thinks all cars 20,000 and under are low end.

nickps · April 2005

I agree as far as the Cobalt is concerned. Its a very hot model with younger buyers. This is especially true if they are getting help from the parents to pay for it. I have own three Cavaliers and they may be dated and not have the looks of their competitors, but they are very good mechanically. One of my Cavaliers has 190,000 miles on it. I have not had any really major repair done on it either. Now i have recently purchased my 2005 Ford Focus SES. I can see that this car makes the Cavalier seem meager. It does feel more solid. I am still loyal to Chevrolet because they make some of the most dependable cars out there. The Focus is worth taking a look at right now its got a five star frontal crash rating. It is also very smooth riding and dependable. It feels very solid. Right now in the northeast Ford offers 2,000 dollars cash back and a Dell computer or 2,500 dollars cash back. Its definately worth looking at.

nickps · April 2005

You should consider the Ford Focus. I have done autobody on the Ford Focus and they take side impacys very well. You can get a low-end focus for less than the cobalt. The Ford Focus has a 5 year or 100,000 miles powertrain warranty. Its an excellent car. I just recently purchased an upscale SES Focus. Great car.

randydriver · April 2005

Does Ford plan on having a smaller car in the market anytime soon?

nicksimon · April 2005

Ford plans on having a hatchback to come out below the Focus in about a year. It will be comparable to a Hyundai Accent in size.

nicksimon · April 2005

As far as the Focus being dated, it is no where near that. If you want to see a dated car look at the Cavalier. The Focus has nice clean lines and is sporty. Compared to Civic and the Elantra this car is definitely not dated. If you even compare it with the Jetta it still doesn't look dated. Trust me I shopped around. The two best looking cars in this class I think are the Focus, Mazda 3 and the Cobalt. They have no dated looks to them, and except for the value of the Mazda they are relatively affordable. I priced a Mazda 3. They want an arm and a leg for it. I was told 23,000 after rebates. That is ridiculous for a comapct Mazda. That is why I bought the Focus which was my first choice anyway. So all you people out there looking for an up-to-date, fun, practical, sporty, and gorgeous car the Focus has definitely got that and more.

ericf1 · April 2005

Nah, I'd rather have a Subaru Impreza, especially for the AWD.

nicksimon · April 2005

The Subaru is a good choice especially if you live in a climate where you get severe winter storms. To me I feel that the Subaru is over priced and it doesn't feel substantial.

backy · April 2005

Looks are subjective of course, but IMO the Mazda3 is the best looking of the current low-end sedans. Ford has done a nice job keeping the six-year-old Focus design fresh with the tweaks for '05, but I think the new interior is dull dull dull--and Ford still hasn't figured out how to design a decent manual seat height adjuster. The Cobalt breaks no new ground in exterior design, IMO. From the front to the C pillar it reminds me of the previous-gen Malibu. Interior-wise it's pretty nice, leaps beyond the Cavalier, except it's amazing to me that GM couldn't figure out how to put decent rear-seat room into a 15-foot sedan. I much prefer the "dated" Civic and Elantra to the looks of the Cobalt. The Civic is Generic Japanese Sedan but crisp and more sporty than the Cobalt. The Elantra's looks (especially the elegant rear end) have worn pretty well I think, but both it and the Civic will be all-new in the next year--leaving the Focus to be the "old man" of the group.

explorerx4 · April 2005

the focus may be the 'old man', but it sems most owners are pretty happy with it.
you can definitely see some of the cost cutting measures, but overall, it's a good value and driving experience. i like features, and mine has a bunch of them.

randydriver · April 2005

It seems funny to me to be talking low end and Mazda 3 in the same breathe ....It is awfully expensive for a (low?) end sedan.....is Mazda going to bring the 1 over anytime soon that would be a good low end car.

backy · April 2005

The Mazda3 starts under $15k so it is a low-end sedan. In fact, it was Edmunds.com's top pick for low-end sedans. Sure, you don't get much equipment on a $14,000 Mazda3, but then you don't get much equipment on a $14,000 MSRP Focus or Cobalt either.

lost · April 2005

When comparing prices between the Focus and the Mazda3 MSRP means nothing. You can get 4,500 off the MSRP on the Focus without even trying hard. The Mazda is another matter as discounts are nowhere near that.

backy · April 2005

You can get 4,500 off the MSRP on the Focus without even trying hard. The Mazda is another matter as discounts are nowhere near that.

That tell you something right there.

lost · April 2005

Yes, it tells you that you can buy a very decent car for not a lot of money. I really dont care about resale value and I dont care about having the latest Cool car out there.

backy · April 2005

I agree completely, but when I think in those terms I don't think of the Focus.

Still, the fact that Mazda can keep selling those 3's without much in the way of incentives is something. But then, Mazda sells a lot fewer 3's than Ford does Foci.

csandste · April 2005

Elantra and Malibu Maxx were my last two. Often the price paid is well below Edmund's price. I think this practice of deep discounting whether Hyundai, Chevy or Ford, tends to lessen the actual v. computed depreciation on these cars. I think that the Mazda3 is probably a newer, better car than the (American) Focus. In real world purchasing situations, the Focus can present a better deal, however. I do think that the Focus dash and front clip redo make the car much more attractive.

lost · April 2005

People tend to become too emotional when it comes to vehicles. A car is a BIG expense when you figure all the taxes and fees that that are levied on anything that has to do with transportation. The trick is to find the best deal out there with the lowest cost of ownership( maintainence and cost of auto loan,MPG etc.). There are a lot of cars out right that are very good,but if you shop around you can be very successful.

iluvmysephia1 · April 2005

interesting comments on how a car is an emotional experience.

I agree that it is totally an emotional experience. Right down to having to have the latest thing out there, or, just wanting to get the best value for the buck. To needing a European look, or a Eurasian look, or a 60's American muscle frenzied-look, it's all tied to emotional decisions. We make statements with the type of car we buy, usually. Sometimes we just have to go with what will get us from point A to point Z. You can't always read intention into somebody's rig, though. Ya gotta know what's really going on inside their brains to know that, eh?

Hey, backy, does/will that new Scion x2B concept fit into the "low-end" box for our discussion? Is Scion gonna really build that rig? I think they are. The xB is only about $13,800, isn't it? At the most, $13,800. Might even be a whisker less. The new one should come in around $14,500, I would venture to guess. I like their creativity..it is really working for a select population of Americans. They love the odd look of "that Scion boxy thingy :shades: ."

backy · April 2005

"... it is really working for a select population of Americans."

Well said. Personally I' don't think I'll ever get over the box-on-wheels look. I mean, c'mon, anyone can put a metal box (ok, two boxes) on four wheels. I think it's amusing what each generation considers cool. Me, I still like cars that are sleek and sinuous, or have some hint of that. Something to interest the eyes besides right angles. For instance, I am really disappointed that the Mercedes B-class isn't coming here, or not anytime soon. It's outside the low-end class, but not more than an optioned-out Mazda3. Also it's why I loved my '85 Civic S--it was a box on wheels, but didn't look like a box. Little cars like that take real genius to sculpt.

csandste · April 2005

it was on my shortlist, but a car that cranks at 3500 rpm at 70 in fifth is not suited for the real world as a primary car.

backy · April 2005

Yeah, those little engines really cry for a 6-speed, don't they?

ericf1 · April 2005

I don't feel the Impreza is all that overpriced compared to other models equivalently equipped. Impreza RS Sport Wagon comes standard w/ 2.5L165hp engine, 16-inch alloy wheels, ABS and AWD. Get the Mazda3 5-Door equivalently equipped is the same price- and you're not even getting AWD. Only thing missing from Impreza is side-airbags, which they should fix very soon (Subaru is updating the '05 model).

Still, I'd buy a used Subaru if I could, but there are really no deals to be found on them in the Boston area, they are pretty much.

Hell, I'd rather just get the low-end Legacy, but that's almost another class of car entirely. Subaru isn't big on incentives.

randydriver · April 2005

Still does anyone know about the Mazda 1, and if it will be coming this way anytime soon? I checked out the prices for the 3 today do they make one that will actually be as inexpensive as the claim. Low end to me is not $20,000 dollars or more. or even 17,000. I am one of those people that likes a good tight car that is small and not loaded up with gizmos. I know there are others out there like me. The Mazda 3 is a very nice car but it is a notch up on what I am looking for. I know Honda is bringing the Jazz over and have heard rumors that Ford has the Fiesta in mind also. I know some of enjoy better incomes than others but lets remember that low is is still usually an entry level car...and I believe the Scion XA and XB or also in that area. Sorry about the rambles of an old man but I just had to say my piece. I hope I didnt offend anyone not my intention.

npaladin2000 · April 2005

Is it just me or is CR having a lot of trouble justifying itself and its car ratings now? Ok a bunch of cars failed a brand new test, CR wants to err on the side of caution, and withdraws a bunch of recommendations. The Civic was not tested, and it's highly likely it would also do poorly on this test, but CR still recommends it. Not only that, but if you read their latest write up of the car in this month's issue, it sounds like they didn't like the car so much! Statements include "Ride is stiff, "transmits bunps as sharp kicks," "slid it's tail when pressed," "[handling] did not inspire confidence," "headlight performance was poor." Oh wait, but they say the cabin was comfy. So while your tail is sliding out and kicking you in the pants and the SUV crashes into your side and kills you, at least you're comfy, and since the SUV bit isn't proven yet, CR recommends it, right? Gimme a break :P Sounds like they're saying the Civic is recommended only so long as it's sitting still.

Actually what gets me the most is the "ignorance is bliss" attitude. "Well, they didn't actually do the crash test on it, so lets close our eyes, think happy thoughts and pretend that it would pass if they DID test it." If CR was so hot about these crash tests, they'd insist on a passing grade in them as a prerequisite before recommending a car.

I'm so incensed I'm about to write to them...something I usually don't bother to do.

gwido · April 2005

I've never heard of the Mazda 1. Maybe you are thinking of the Mazda 2 (aka Mazda Demio) or the Mazda Verisa (aka MX-Microsport concept), two cars smaller than the 3 that are sold in some other countries, including Japan...
In any case, I'm not aware of any plan about Mazda bringing them here.

backy · April 2005

If the Mazda3 is a "notch up on what you are looking for", IMO your best bets in the present are the Elantra (comfortable, roomy compact with good power and features starting at less than $11k) or one of the subcompacts (Aveo, Accent, Rio in my order of preference). ECHOs are nice little cars too but very hard to find new and pricey for what you get. You can also pick up a stripped Cobalt for under $12k or a nicely-equipped Forenza or Reno for about the same price. New Sentras can be had for around $11k also, but IMO are not nearly as nice as the Elantra for less money. Then there's the basic Focus for $11-12k or so. So there are quite a few options out there even if the Mazda 1 (or 2) never shows up. And the Fit is still some ways away, unfortunately. If you can wait until fall, the all-new Accent and Rio look like major improvements over the current models.

ericf1 · April 2005

It really depends on what options you want. For me, must haves are automatic tranny, ABS and side-airbags. So, by the time I add those options at best we're talking $13-$14k.

If I had to chose I would go for the low-end Cobalt Coupe equipped with those features.

backy · April 2005

You can get an Elantra, Spectra, Forenza/Reno, or Accent with automatic, SABs, and ABS for under $12k but ABS can be hard to find on those models. For point of reference, my '04 Elantra GT with automatic, ABS/traction, moonroof, leather, alloys, MP3 stereo and the usual power toys was $14.3k out the door. So it is quite possible to get a very well equipped new car for under $15k.

Another option to think about is to get a slightly used mid-sized car like a Taurus or Sonata, which with V6 and ABS can be had for $12k or so.

alpha01 · April 2005

"You can get an Elantra, Spectra, Forenza/Reno, or Accent with automatic, SABs, and ABS for under $12k but ABS can be hard to find on those models."

None of these models passes the side impact test of the IIHS... yet. I have high hopes for the Accent and next generation Elantra, though. The aforementioned Cobalt does pass this test.

~alpha

backy · April 2005

So we are all supposed to go out and buy Cobalts and Corollas, despite their other deficiencies? Should we all sell our "unsafe" cars and buy something that has passed all the NHTSA and IIHS tests? What did we ever do before we had the IIHS to tell us how unsafe our cars are?

When are you going to sell your death-on-wheels Sentra and buy a safe car like a Cobalt or Corolla?

jojomonkeyboy · April 2005

I read about CR withdrawing its recomendation of Focus becasue it wasn't safe enough. CR doesn't make recomendations within a car class?

Low end sedans will never be recomended by CR as a buy because they aren't safe enough.

I've always liked CR, especially their reliability info. I think they fill an important need. It seems like they've flubbed it, I hope they can recover.

backy · April 2005

CR does recommend two low-end cars that have "passed" the current NHTSA and IIHS crash tests: the Cobalt and Corolla, both with the optional side air bags / curtains. Other likely candidates (once the IIHS testing is done) are the revised Impreza, Mazda3 with SABs/SACs, and the new '06 models coming this fall e.g. Civic.

CR had better hope the NHTSA or IIHS doesn't add new tests (like the IIHS side impact test) or beef up the requirements for the tests significantly, or they may not be able to recommend any low-end cars in the future.

alpha01 · April 2005

At the time, it was the Sentra or Elantra that offered Head Protecting side airbags. I'd definitely rather have a vehicle with SOME protection than none at all. However, other things being equal, the Cobalt and Corolla with side curtains do a better job than all the others you mention. You dramatized the situation a bit, but it is what it is. At this point, the Elantra, Spectra, etc.... are not designed well enough to prevent serious injury, desibe a head/chest combo airbag standard. (Same thing goes for our 05 Legacy, although that model gets a 'Marginal' and not a 'Poor').

~alpha

backy · April 2005

I guess we'd just better stay away from small cars then. Even though they are more nimble (thus more likely to move out of the way of a collision) than a larger vehicle. Not even the Corolla and Cobalt with their side bags are designed well enough to prevent serious injury, according to the IIHS:

In the Cobalt, forces on the driver dummy's torso indicated the possibility of rib fractures or internal organ injuries. In the Corolla, there was the possibility of a fractured pelvis.

Maybe you don't consider rib fractures, internal organ injuries, or a fractured pelvis serious injuries, but I do. I also consider the current crop of small cars to be far superior in crash protection than the cars I've been driving for the past 30 years. No, not perfect--but neither are the Cobalt and Corolla, according to the IIHS:

"GM and Toyota still need to beef up the side structures to improve their side impact ratings from acceptable to good," says [the IIHS' COO Adrian} Lund.

But I will not go out and buy two land yachts / tanks just because of a crash test result. There are many other considerations when buying a car.

IIHS link:
http://www.iihs.org/news_releases/2005/pr030605.htm

alpha01 · April 2005

to be one that is life threatening, and a fractured pelvis is not that. If coming out of a collision of this severity unscathed is what you are looking for, well then, no, the Cobalt and Corolla dont enable that, or they'd be Best Picks like the Saab 9-3 and Toyota RAV4, for example.

The fact remains that the level of injury inflicted on the dummies of the Cobalt and Corolla (with optional airbags) is less (using your definition of serious) than it is in the Elantra and Spectra with side airbags, both of which ganner a 'Poor' rating for Torso, meaning that fatal injury is likely (as opposed to broken ribs). That said, the airbagged Elantra and Spectra do better than the base Cobalt and Corolla, both of inflict fatal levels of head injury.

"Even though they are more nimble (thus more likely to move out of the way of a collision) than a larger vehicle." See, thats not necessarily true any more either. With the advent of stability control systems, many larger cars may be able to avoid collisions that say, even the most nimble of small cars, such as the Ford Focus, might not be able to. This is especially true where road/tire traction is an issue, such as in rain. Just a thought. (Of note is that the Corolla can be ordered with VSC, and its standard on the new Jetta.)

Finally, I think its very noteworthy that the IIHS side impact IS indeed comparable across weight classes, even though the frontal and frontal offset are not. This means that despite their smaller size, you're better off in an airbag-ed Cobalt or Corolla than you are in a non-airbagged Malibu or Camry.

Certainly, I agree with you backy, there are many things to consider where crash tests are concerned.

~alpha

explorerx4 · April 2005

with all this 'sturm und drang' about side impacts, can you believe some people actually still buy motorcycles? :surprise:

backy · April 2005

What?? Don't motorcycles have air bags now? If not, I wonder how they did on the IIHS crash tests...

npaladin2000 · April 2005

Actually, CR only recommends the Corolla because it passed the current IIHS test...the Cobalt has unknown reliability and it not recommended (meaning they're not recommending it because it's a GM, heh).

CR also still recommends the Civic and Inpreza because the IIHS didn't perform the new test on these models; their "ignorance is bliss" policy that gets me so angry. These two models are so old they would probably do quite poorly on this test. CR needs to be consistent and withdraw their recommendation until and unless they score "acceptable" on the new crash test, same as the Corolla (with side air bags only, mind you...).

backy · April 2005

The "ignorance is bliss" policy. Darn, that has a nice ring to it. I shoulda copyrighted it.

iluvmysephia1 · April 2005

and import this Micra they've been threatening to bring over here for what seems like years? I think a portion of you would like it's style. A little unusual but it would score you good gas mileage. I wonder what the big holdup is all about. It should retail for about $14,000 but it's a Nissan so it'll probably sell for something more like $17,500.

backy · April 2005

iluv, re-read the preceding chain re IIHS crash test scores, internal organ injuries etc. I suspect that's the reason Nissan hasn't brought the Micra over here. If a 2900-pound compact car that was designed to beat the IIHS crash tests can get only an "acceptable" score, how do you think the Micra would do? I suspect that's also why Honda is delaying the U.S. release of the Fit, waiting until it can meet the U.S. crash test standards. Honda prides itself on making cars that have an excellent score on those tests. And you know what happened when a certain vehicle that you know and love was singled out by the IIHS because it was the only current compact to score "poor" on the IIHS frontal offset test. I don't think Honda, or Nissan, want that kind of publicity for their new mini-cars.

iluvmysephia1 · April 2005

this crash-test stufff is overrated, IMHO. It doesn't say much to me, speak much to me, make that much of a difference, or, really interest me that much. It really doesn't.

I'll continue to drive safely, but looking at a report to help me decide whether I should or should not buy a rig just doesn't wash with me. Nope-not-notta. Nuff said. Bring the Micra over. Rermember, I live in the Midwest where Pontiac Grand Ams are actually sought after rigs! Yikes.

backy · April 2005

I tried to tell ya... it's not about what you and I think about crash tests... it's what Nissan thinks about them and what a poor test on a newly-introduced car could do to the car's sales and Nissan's general reputation.

I live in the Midwest, and I feel insulted. :mad:

alpha01 · April 2005

I knew the sales story wasnt great for the Civic in its final year of the model, but I didnt realize it was this bad:

First Quarter 2004 Sales

Civic (including coupe, Hybrid): 73,149
Corolla (including Matrix): 75,125

First Quarter 2005 Sales

Civic (including coupe, Hybrid): 59,255
Corolla (including Matrix): 81,658

Thats an almost 20% swing downward in sales. And its not like Toyota is going crazy with Corolla incentives- in March, it was a $500 customer cash rebate OR special financing, 3.9% for 60 months (this was in the Greater NY region).

Apparently, the redesign can't come a moment too soon.

~alpha

ericf1 · April 2005

Exactly why I don't ride a motorcycle. I was witness to one bad accident, that was enough.

A few car manufacturers are revising their '05 models so they pass the side-impact tests. It will be interesting to see how Subaru achieves this with the '05 Impreza, quite an old design. I don't see them adding side-airbags at this point, if at all possible.

Low End Sedans (under $16k)

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles