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Subaru Forester vs Toyota RAV4
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Comments
I am looking to buy a new RAV4 (2003) or a Subaru Impreza 2.5T (2004) within 1 week.
Please advise. My criteria are: should have good pick-up/ power, good internal comfort, has to be automatic, OK-looks, milage and safety. Both I and my wife need to drive. Need not go off-road and rare snow here in Richmond. Therefore I am wondering if I really need AWD for FWD is OK. I may also indulge in a sun-roof but may need a aftermarket one for Subaru.
I have got quotes of ~21000 for RAV4 and ~20000 for Subaru.
Please do advise. Thanks
The Rav4 will certainly accomodate more stuff inside.
As to the AWD, you will find it also much better on rain-slick roads too. Don't just think of it as a snow benefit. AWD (TS or Rav4) works for you year-round.
Bob
With automatic, no replacement for displacment, the 2.5l will have an edge over the 2.0l carrying a boxier shape. The trade-off is less room inside, mostly height (for headroom and tall cargo).
With AWD, the TS should be more fuel efficient. You can get a FWD RAV4, that would be close.
FWIW, you can do a LOT better than $20k for a TS. Drive 2 hours north to fitzmall.com, they have TS wagons for $16,341. That $5 grand will pay for gas for a decade.
Better yet, get the better equipped Outback Sport, those are $17,170 at the same dealer. You get 16" alloys and a bunch more features, it's a bargain. That still saves you $4 grand.
BTW, those prices include freight. Our family has purchased 4 Subarus from that dealer, so I can tell you those prices are legit.
-juice
http://www.fitzgeraldautomall.com/
Bob
Actually I was adding the S/Roof, a cassette+CD deck instead of just CD and all tags, titles, taxes to the $20K , but the link you have given still works out at around $1K less
Thanks a lot..I have queried Fitz and will simultaneously push my local dealer..
The reason I am not looking at Forester is b'coz I want to stay within $20-21K.
Your point abt. O/B sport is great...but I was not able to justify to myself why to pay $1K more (only diff seems to be harder suspension and fog lights. I did not really need the harder suspension) and kinda liked the body colored bumbers in the TS..
Anything I am missing between the TS and O/B?
Amit
Here are some more tips - remember you can buy the moonroof seperately. In fact, we have Adler & Mandell install a powered one for us, in our Legacy. It's an ASC 750 and is pretty big, 17"x30". One touch open/close, even programmable to close when you remove the key. We love it. It was $900.
Finally, for the radio, consider E-Baying a WRX take-off 6CD changer + Cassette. They go for about $150 nowadays, that's cheap. It's very easy to install, in fact I've done TWO of them myself, one in our Forester and another in our Legacy. I can do it in under one hour, and the harness plugs right in. Our Subaru Crew will help you with install tips, it's cake.
You can also find some in the NASIOC classifieds. They are plentiful, seriously.
So, for $1050 plus that Outback Sport, you're golden. You will really enjoy the Subaru community, FWIW, I really do. We have a weekly chat, the only one on Edmunds, SoA presence here too.
-juice
DaveM
Steve, Host
1. Is the internet delivered price on Fitzautomall the final price or is ther more room? 'coz the site gives a price of 17298 for Impreza 2.5TS auto and 18340 for OB Sports Auto.
Is the difference with what you mentioned due to 2004 vs. 2003?
2. Sun roof. Where can I get it installed and how?
3. I hope there is no issue in getting my services and warranty at any of the local dealers in Richmond if I buy from Fitz.
Thanks once again. BTW when is the next Subaru discussion?
ak
Fitz shows "Delivered Internet Price", "Delivered Value Price", invoice and MSRP for all the cars in stock. Looking specifically at their Forester inventory, I see that the "Delivered Internet Price" and "Delivered Value Price" is below invoice for all models except the XT. For XTs their "Delivered Internet Price" is below invoice but their "Delivered Value Price" is above invoice. Any ideas as to why the discrepancy?
Ed
It's about $300 for the privilege. If you are price shopping just look at the Internet Price, which you can walk-in and get even if you do not have internet access.
To answer those questions:
1) no, there is no room to haggle, the experience is stress-free, they focus on getting you the car and options you like. Prices are good IMO. Their fee is $49, compare that to $300 at some stealers (oops, dealers).
2) Near the Rockville location is Adler & Mandell Auto Upholstery, they are an ASC approved vendor. For $900 or so they installed our Legacy's ASC Model 750 roof. They basically fit the biggest moonroof they can in your car for that price. Call 411, ask for Adler & Mandell in Rockville, MD, they are listed.
3) You can service from any Subie dealer, they make profits from service, not sales, so they'll be glad to take you.
If you'd feel better having a reference, e-mail me (it's in my profile) and I'll put you in touch with my salesman. He does all the VIP deals for that dealership. He sold us a Legacy, my dad an Outback, and my sister a Forester, kept us loyal by following just by one simple rule: being honest.
-juice
Bob
Steve, Host
Note that if you buy a Subaru Gold Extended Warranty you are guaranteed a loaner.
-juice
I need some expert thoughts, some not-so-expert thoughts, and perhaps some sort of exorcism as I move that much closer to a purchase.
Bob
VSC and Navigation will be options, even turn signals in the mirrors. This stuff is starting to trickle down, which is good. Loaded prices might get a little scary, we'll see.
-juice
LOL! Hey I'll trade you a loaded RAV4 for a XT MT Premium :-) Want to meet at the border?
-Frank P.
-juice
Also, the rear seats in the RAV4 are easily removeable - a nice feature.
Keep 'em frying!
A good move, IMO.
~alpha
I went to test drive an MR2, but we took a RAV4 to and from a remote parking lot to pick up that car.
While rear leg room is better, width is really tight, and the split seats really make this a 4 seater.
It seems to lean over a lot, kind feels tippy, but the vantage point is great, you feel like King of the Road. Of course I drove a Miata and an MR2 back-to-back, so anything would be higher than those two.
It was an automatic, the engine kind of struggles to really get it moving, it felt buzzy. The 1.8l in the MR2 does not, oddly, the engine seemed more quiet.
Basically the 2.4l should be a nice upgrade, giving it more relaxed power, especially with the auto. The 5 speed is probably fine with the current 2.0l engine.
-juice
With the 2.4, Toyota has finally brought the RAV up to the power the Forester has had all along, and with the same fuel efficiency. It surprises me that the company that builds the extremely thrifty Corolla cannot build a mini-ute with great fuel economy. It would be nice if both of these could bring combined fuel economy up to high 20s, even 30. (Obviously that comment does not apply to the XT!).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I didn't like the SMG option, it dropped the throttle too abruptly to shift, almost like the car was stalling. It would actually slow the car down before each shift, even when you were accelerating briskly.
Take-offs were butter-smooth, though. Reverse too. And the buttons on the wheel made it feel like an F1 car.
If they could only tune the de-throttle smoothly, it's very promising technology.
-juice
Bob
-juice
Bob
I'm not sure if the RAV4 I test drove was FWD or AWD, but it felt like FWD to me, with a little tug at the steering wheel in turns.
-juice
How far did you drive? Was it from a cold start? Did you factor in that pedal-feel is different among many vehicles?
At 45,000 miles, my '01 RAV is not buzzy or tippy (very secure on the road), has adequate power for this non-leadfoot driver (2.0L with auto trans), gives good mileage (24.8 overall in a state that requires MTBE / winter gas), and has given me no problems. I think it is possible to get another 10+ enjoyable, trouble-free years out of it. That's the plan, anyway.
Perhaps the engine had a loose heat shield on the exhaust? That's kind of what it sounded like at high revs.
The tippy comment again surely was exacerbated by the fact that I drove a Miata to the dealer, then the RAV4, then the MR2 Spyder, then the RAV4 again, and finally, my Miata. I guess any SUV would feel that way.
But still, my Forester leans less, for sure.
What did you mean by pedal feel? For the most part, the controls were light and easy to operate, nothing to complain about there.
-juice
Whenever I see another Impreza in a lot, I always park next to it if I can cuz I always think its funny.... but I don't know why....
-juice
So I became a proud forester owner.
link
Steve, Host
The only useful tool I have seen to measure the real reliability is the CU ongoing surveys that show the trends as cars age. The Toyota brand is clearly has the best reliability for long term ownership. Subaru has very good ranking in these studies.
Personally, I would not think reliability would be an issue in deciding between these two cars, but if that is the top of you list, you can't go wrong with Toyota.
RAV4 and Forester have actually tied for 2nd place in the past in the IQ study, and they usually make the top 3.
Keep in mind the Forester is the highest scoring Subaru, so if you're talking about scores for all Subarus, you're watering down the data a bit. The Baja scores poorly, but that doesn't mean the Forester does.
Subaru beat Toyota in the JDP Dealer Satisfaction study that just came out.
So what?
-juice
Toyota beat all other brands in the latest JDP 3-year customer survey.
What most surprised me was that GM was in the top 5 (along with Toyota, Honda, BMW, Porsche), and only the top 5 were rated above average.
And Land Rover was the absolute bottom finisher. Well, maybe that's why their vehicles are so cheap to buy...
TIA
-Frank
-Frank
Regards,
Kyle