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Prewar VW Beetles-Are There Any?
egkelly1
Member Posts: 30
A bit of a question-I know that the VW Beetle was born in the late 1930's as a project assigned to Dr. porsche by Adolf Hitler. Are there any of these pre-war bugs still around? I would imagine they would be quite valuble today. Anyway, my question is prompted by a story told me by my wife's ex-employer. This woman grew up in wartime Germany, and she told me that the whole VW car project was a massive scam, perpetrated on the german people by der Fuhrer. It seems that the company took deposits on the cars (which had yet to be built), and the German government used the money on re-arming, and not to set up the VW for mass production. they deposits were around $500.00 per car (which was quite a sum of money for the time), and the money was never returned. can anybody corroborate this story?
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As for pre-war Beetles, the original prototypes are in a museum somewhere. They did make somewhere around 650 for members of the Reich during the war, though, those might be worth something if they could be tracked down.
Interestingly, there is no know photo of Hitler ever driving a car, and it is not known if he could in fact even drive.
Another interesting fact is that the only American mentioned in Mein Kampf is Henry Ford. The admiration was (initially) mutual, as there is a famous photo of Henry Ford at his desk, with a photo of Hitler plainly visible on the wall.
Obviously, Ford's Model T was the inspiration for the "people's car" in Germany.
Once VW was back in production and getting along allright in the 1950s, the company actually honored the deposits made by citizens who could prove they made these deposits...I don't recall if they got all their money, but they got a credit if they wanted to buy a new bug.
Right after the war, the VW factory was offered to Henry Ford, but he examined the car and declared it to be "unsaleable". So the British took it and got the assembly line rolling again amid the ruins.
The rest, as they say, is history.
some of the crazy variants include coal fired engines, four wheel drive and the really really early ones did not have back windows.
So while there may be some pre-war Beetles around somewhere, chances are that they'd be hard to find in the States!
Those early postwar (40s and very early 50s) Bugs are nicely made but quite anemic. In a way, I could see Henry Ford laughing at the ones he might have seen. But by the time they really started to sell in serious numbers in the US, in the late 50s, they had been refined considerably. Not exactly PLUSH by any means, but trimmed better inside and out. I think Americans liked them because of their simplicity compared to 50s American cars but also for how well-made they were. American cars of the 50s were often built rather carelessly. They were flashy, but often rattled apart and rusted in a few years. Bugs seemed like these neat, tight little packages, and they proved to be very tough little cars.
Also, as with japanese cars in the 70s, it was the right time for them.
My favorite was just a very simple line sketch of a cartoony-looking guy holding up a gas pump nozzle to his temple, as if it were a pistol, and under this simple drawing the simple words:
"Or.....drive a Volkswagon"
That was the entire full page ad.That doesn't mean a whole lot if your top speed is measured in feet per hour!
My grandfather saw a VW Bug when he was in Germany in WWII, and liked them the first time he saw one. When they first began importing them in any numbers into this country, he ordered one (You had to pay half down, half when the ship arrived with your car). He had a friend that also had a VW Beetle, and both cars were anemically underpowered. One day Mickey, my grandpa's friend pulled up beside my grandfather, both in their little VW's, and Micky hollered out "You wanna race?" as a joke. Well, there was a cop behind them, that neither noticed, and he pulled them both over for "Contesting speed" in VW beetles. They were still laughing at getting tickets for contesting speed in a VW for years and years after that.
I've also heard that, from a standstill to something like 15 mph or so, they're actually pretty fast. My uncle said he used to have a friend in high school who liked to race cars on foot. The car would take off from a traffic light, and his friend would start out on foot, and he'd sprint to a certain spot and stop. He said that the Beetles were actually the fastest cars he ran against!
Nowadays, it seems to be the '88-94 Lincoln Continental!
People who aren't real car nuts think a VW and Porsche engine are similar, but when you take the two apart and place them side by side, the whole truth is very apparent. One is built for economy, the other for durability, and the difference in quality, strength, design, engineering and machining is very apparent, even to the untrained eye.
Still, for what they are, VW engines are pretty amazing. With maintenance and judicious driving, you can get 60,000 good miles out of one and then order a rebuilt (even today) for $600-800, sometimes even installed!
Try THAT in an older Porsche (more like $10,000 in California).
A guy in San Jose is one of them (Harry Pellow aka the "Maestro")
Bill
...
I appreciate the sentiment, problem is that
Late model Thunderbird = appliance
Early, semaphore turn signal, cloth sunroof beetle with Porsche alloys, Berg motor = cool
I've noticed on my Intrepid, that even things like air filters and pcv valves don't get dirty as quickly as they used to!
I'd also rather have a car that has an engine that will outlive the rest of the car. With a 60K mile lifespan, I'd need a new engine about every 2 to 2.5 years. Shifty, do they still need to be replaced that often, even with all the advances we've made in oils, gasoline, etc, over the years?
0) A quality rebuild (or new engine)
1) Berg temperature sensing dipstick (makes the oil light glow at high temps).
2) Oil filter
3) Pertronix ignition
4) Hydraulic lifters (new Mexican engines are available this way, check btlmex.com)
5) Reasonably regular service (oil changes, re-torquing heads, etc)
and these can be pretty much a no-brainer setup.
I think the problems I've seen with most beetles in the last few years are badly looked after, 40 year old cars. You let things go long enough, and any car will lose in a reliability contest.
And puhleez, comparing new Fords with half century old economy cars is hardly worth the time typing. Ok, ok, late model Thunderbirds aren't 'appliances', they're just boring.
The placement of the stock VW oil cooler doesn't look ideal to me. It definitely blocks some cooling air, that's plain to see. Whether that blockage results in a problem, well...it does seem that number three cylinder acts up more than the others.
But yes, the improvements you listed are certainly worth while. The filter especially adds not only protection but extra oil capacity, which couldn't hurt.
VW made improvements all the time, and I don't think owners should stop doing that...an old VW can be a charming little car to drive around the city, and very practical, if you can get it really squared away and then keep it maintained as it should be.
under 'tech tips'
under 'about oil coolers'
To increase oil capacity, there are also relatively easy to add sump extenders.
Most of my VWs have been buses and trucks. I had a 1967 standard microbus that had nearly 400,000 miles on it when I sold it. Still have my 1960 singlecab pickup, which is a great hauler. I've tried all kinds of combinations of engine performance additions and such, but the ones that work best are things like counterbalanced cranks and "doghouse" style oil coolers (a stock item on later engines). I don't even like dual port heads, as the ones in my 1971 bug were hard to work around.
My ideal VW engine for the truck would be an otherwise stock 1600cc single port with a 74mm counterweighted crank, fuel injection, electronic ignition and hydraulic lifters. No ups, no extras!
And another thing. Maybe the 50's engines only went 60K miles, but the 60's and 70's engines, even in the van, would go farther than that if properly maintained. I usually get about 75K out of an engine in the van, and you can usually get by with just rebuilding the heads (but since it's out and cheap, it doesn't make sense not to pull it apart).
Last time I checked, the world record for pulling an engine out of a bug and putting it back in and driving the car was 2 minutes and 30 seconds for a two-man team. I've seen it done in under 4 minutes. By myself, I can pull the engine out of my truck, rebuild it, and have it running again in 2 days, without breaking a sweat. I've done it in a single day, but with some sweat.
The few original VW Beetles are in the VW Museum. The first ones built after the War did not have the safety equipment required in American cars of that era: The windshield and side windows were not safety-plate glass, they were ordinary window glass; the brakes were mechanical with drums on all four wheels; headlamps were simple lightbulbs with reflectors; and they didn't have additonal firewall protection for the fuel tank, which was mounted under the dash (in your lap!). The seats were cheap fabric, very thin. Saw many of them when I was there during the last days of the Occupation, in the USAF.
American servicemen in Germany during the Occupation were forbidden to buy the domestic model for the reasons stated above. When export models were offered they could buy those for use in Germany and ship them home. We bought car insurance from local companies and insurance agents, one of whom said she was a "Good [non-permissible content removed]", when I went to pay a premium.
The waiting period for export models in Germany was six months. All were 4-speed sticks. And they ran like hell all-day-long wide open! You could drive one off the factory lot and on to the Autobhan at its top speed and not harm the engine. Later models (1956 onward) had 68hp and got 40 mpg.
The instrument panel had the speedometer and a few lights, no fuel guage. When the engine sputtered you reached under the dash and flipped a lever to get the reserve fuel flowing. There was a reserve of 2 gallons. When you refueled you had to remember to flip the lever back or risk running out the next time.
The best models were built in 1998. Still see a few of those on the roads. They have a chrome ID mounted diagonally across the back hatch lid and a black horizontal stripe on the bumper.
In 1954, Germany had the first International Automobiler Show in Frankfurt am Main, following WWII. The VW pavillion had VW's mounted on pipes on the walls in a single file around the huge room. In the center was the 1,000,000th VW Beetle sitting on top of a cube of structural glass. Every bit of chrome on the metallic gold painted car was encrusted with diamonds -- valued at $1,000,000. That was a site to see.
I went to that one, and it was the year they introduced the Karman Gia model,a two-door sport coupe, designed in Italy by Gia and the body was built in Berlin by Karman. You sat real low almost on the floor. Otherwise it was stock VW Beetle mechanicals. I also went to the IAS in 1995 and it was huge! Like a DisneyWorld for car-lovers! It takes days to see all the cars. There is one building just for parts suppliers. It's starts this year on September 17th, would love to go. But you can see all the cars on this web site soon:
http://www.cardesignnews.com and the 2001 shows in NYC, Detroit, LA, and Geneva, Switzerland now.
By the way, the original name was Peoples Car -- a.k.a VolksWagen. And the price of the export model, in Germany, was $1750.00, one dollar a pound. Door armrests, right door outside mirrors, mudflaps, foglights, and AM-radios were optional. The only options. The most popular colors were black and a really nice medium metallic blue. German models were two-toned in green, tan, or blue -- light blue with a darker blue on the hood and rear hatch lid. Customized models had leather seating and electrical outlets for electric razors and other accessories. Some buyers ran their price up to a whopping $2500.00!
fowler3
fowler3
Is my memory correct?
And here's a Schwimmwagon, which as the name implies, floats.....
adapt it to us standards? or is this a foolish proposition?