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Comments
:shades:
you have totally redeemed yourself in my eyes, with your last post. :-) :-)
thanks for the encouragement; guess what?
last night my "Sonata-buying nightmare" came to an end.
found THE car and got THE price.
It was pretty tough, though, and the 4 hrs have left me exhausted, so if anyone want details, just let me know.
I did learn a few new things, though.
And yes, chuck1919, the list of tricks & ruses & lies & omissions is pretty long.
But ya gotta adimire them sometimes. and they do have mouths to feed, so .....
I'll not post some of the Hyundai-generated holdbacks, kick-backs, bonuses, and "private" incentives that help these guys make a living. At least I won't post it publically ..... if you want some details just PM me directly.
So back I go this morning, to pick up my new car; only 22 miles away so it's fairly local.
I had been looking as far as 125 miles away, with well over a dozen dealerships involved in quoting me prices.
(yes, I left the car there, without touching it, after the deal was all done & signed; they were REALLY p*ssed about THAT, let me tell you! wanted me to at least drive it around the block before leaving it there.) but I needed to sleep on it and let it all sink in, and gather together whatever residual questions I still have.
Thanks to you all who contributed to my ever-increasing knowledge about this process, and to those who sympathized with my various aborted attempts to become a Sonata owner.
.......later
Rick
I used this website in past and I find their auto buying program very useful.
You don't have to get a loan from them. Just click on "Auto Loan" then to " Auto buying program" Once you select the brand and model with all the options, it shows you what dealers are willing to sell their cars for. Helpful section will be "what others really paid" This section shows true dealer cost, factory invoice, great price, and etc... If you click on tab, it shows what the holdback is for the dealers. This website will email you "guaranteed pricing certificate". I used this website to get leverage from nearest dealer from my house and it worked out great. I purchased 2011 Toyota Sienna and 2011 Hyundai Sonata. For 2011 Sienna, I was able to get $500.00 less and free oil change up to 30,000 miles from initial nego. On Sonata, I told the sales manager "if you don't discount another "$600.00, I will go to a dealer that guaratee me that pricing". Thank god he accepted because silver Sonata Se was selling like hotcakes and it was hard to locate the one that I like. BTW that other dealer was 146 miles away.
PS.. On these Sonatas, please check before you purchase
1. look for center console rattle (assembled poorly)
2. check the door latches (recall.. )
3. sunglass holder ( I purchased with defective sunglass holder )
I have been to their service dept 2 times already and they are ordering me a new one.
My salesman has offered to buy us dinner for our inconvenience. I told him what I preferred was a third proximity key since I heard those are expensive to replace if lost.
But I'm wondering if I can do better on the overall price?
one guy told me as a general rule he'd take $3K off any new sonata
Anyways I am in the market for 2011 Sonata for my younger brother who is graduating. I cant stand dealers and their hustling methods. I have had deals fall through in the financing room after all negotiations, these guys dont leave you alone until your rear tires leave their property! anyways, your pricing paid with option taxes title fee etc would be appreciated, and which dealership did you get this car at? thanks ...
would really appreciate the info from abigmutt
I got a quote about 18600 OTD (including tax in CA). Even only one car is left, the dealer does not give any discount.
Is this a good deal?
Thank you very much.
The actual price of the car shouldn't be above $16k, for a 2010 GLS with Popular Equipment Package 2 and automatic.
see my original post
I like it very much. already put 500 miles. works great. got around 30 mpg.
I posted that I bought my Sonata Ltd w/Nav and it was a real challenge here in southern california.
You folks in other parts of the country are lucky, for instance those places that have those fitzmall dealerships. They seem to be a real good bet, if you live near any ot them. They seem to sell their Ltd w/Nav models for around $1,000 below invoice.
sorry, I can't speak to any other models except the one I looked for and finally bought. I paid $600 below and it was for a hard to find color. That was my experience at least during the last 3 months: there seemed to be hardly any red ones making it out this far to the west. Plenty of silver, black and white, but few dark blue and few red ones.
(funny, suddenly a lot of the dealers here have the purple ones, which everyone was saying were so difficult to get).
So in summary, if color was not a determining factor, I could have bought several times at $1K below invoice, but I was holding out for a red one. (hey, at my age you never know whether this will be your last chance to own a red, semi-sporty-looking car !!)
I'm pretty happy with my Sonata, although I must say it certainly rides like a car of its weight. It takes getting into a car like a new Sonata to really appreciate the ride of a luxury american car. Oh well, at least I'll pass more gas stations with this new Sonata, even though I'll be bouncing around while doing so.
A bit of advice that I CAN post publicly: if the GAP insurance you're offered includes new car replacement for 5 years and you financed a major part of the car's purchase price, swallow hard and get the GAP policy. approx $600 but gives you lots of peace of mind, not to mention how glad you'd be if by chance the car was stolen and written off.
Don't think the alarm systems will save your *ss, and CERTAINLY NOT the mere factory alarm system which is a joke.
Actually another good alternative would be a LoJack alarm for about $700. It will quickly recover the car before it can be wrecked or dismantled. And it's the only one that transmits its signal through garages & other structures, in case the thief manages to quickly get the car inside a building or garage.
Finally, on price: there's a myriad of ways these guys get paid for every car, besides the profit between their true buying costs and selling price: 2.6% factory holdback; about $300 directly back to the salesperson if you give them a perfect score on the post-sale survey; another $300 leads fee (they call them feeders) that they don't have to pay IF you contact the dealer for a quote directly or through the hyundai site before contacting TrueCar, ZAG, Overstock, etc. etc.
These are all leverage for giving you a better bargaining position; but only if you know about them and can "throw back at them" the specifics of why they DO HAVE more room to lower their price.
The BEST technique is still the old-school one: walking out of the negotiations. You can always come back, after driving around the block or going to a Starbucks to clear your head.
In fact, even if you're finished & satisfied with the price you & the salesperson have reached, GO OUT & TAKE A BREAK before seeing the guy in Finance. You do need to get yourself ready for another round of bargaining (the add-ons) in case you might want to consider one or more of them. The GAP policy is (in some cases) a good one to consider; but you need to fight for lowest price there too. You may want a little extra alarm protection, too, from what factory system gives you. But if you worn down and not as sharp as you need be, you'll end up paying way too much for that add-on.
Lastly, remember you can change your mind at any time (and re-open negotiations) until you physically drive that buggy off their lot. (I ended up doing this, the next day when I returned to pick up my Sonata, because I'd reconsidered something in the interval.) They merely have to tear up the old contract and re-print a new amended one (which takes about 20 seconds these days with everything computerized).
You've worked hard for your money, and THEY have the advantage of knowing exactly what their absolute bottom price is. Even if they have to take currency out of their wallet & give it to you in order to clinch the sale, they're still earning good money from every sale they make. (this has happened to me twice, actually).
To REALLY get the best price possible is a gruelling experience, one that many buyers don't want to endure, and that's what car salesmen are hoping for. Hey, if you don't want to go through it and leave $500-$1000 on the table, that's fine. I understand it and for many customers it's worth $1K to have a "pleasant & efficient buying experience." The dealers certainly hope you'll elect to go that route.
But if you can stomach a few anxious moments and are prepared to do what it takes to buy a car at rock-bottom price so that YOU can have that extra thousand in YOUR pocket, just take a deep breath and walk in there, armed with all the information you can gather, and 3-4 hours later you'll drive home in a new Sonata.
Hope this helps!
I sill feel this is high because their invoice is less than 22K on this car. :shades:
Not in MY lifetime, at least not so far;
More like $24K.
better check it again.
100000 miles. After 2000 miles we love our car although the gas mileage is around 26 so far. Hope this is helpful.
Some may moan & groan about how they're not making any money off that kind of deal ("but we'll make it back on the next one" or "but we'll hope you come back here in the future" , ".... for servicing" or "send your friends here" --- blah blah blah. they used them all) but ultimately they're making a good profit from the sale to YOU, and making great profit from the "roll-overs" as those other customers are known.
Hey, has anyone ordered one of those Consumer Report things for $7 or $10 or whatever, where they tell you what each & every option costs the dealer, as well as they're invoice price, etc.?
I'd be curious to know how accurate they are; and compared to ZAG and TrueCar and Overstock, etc etc.
Something I didn't post before is that throughout my 3-month searching/purchasing experience I of course met lots & lots of sales people and internet sales managers and manager-managers and so on; well, most were just your generic car sales person: good at their job, mostly, but also wouldn't/couldn't give you a fully-truthful answer if their own mother was slowly being dipped in boiling oil; but this one "manager", their internet manager actually, grew up working for his dad's car dealerships that're still operating, had worked several other brands over the years, now landed here in s. california from the mid-west , loves people but deep-down hates being a "car salesman",
well, we hit it off immediately and over the course of a few meetings, etc Anyway, I went back to see him AFTER I bought my car somewhere else, to tell him to stop looking for my car and to thank him for his help & so on ........... anyway, each time we talked trash for long periods of time, and we've become friends.
Now I'm not saying he's spilled all the dirt .......... but let's just say I wish I'd met him 3 months earlier; and also wish he's let me write a book (competition for Consumer Reports?) about pricing and techniques and realities about car dealerships.
Heck, I wish I could post some of the pricing stuff here but I respect his candor and I value our new friendship. Let me say one thing: they actually DO sell new cars, sometimes, at below their bottom-line, actual cost. not often but sometimes you can hit it just right and buy a car for as much as $1K lower than their ACTUAL cost. Plus, a car salesperson also gets paid part of his commission directly from the factory; whether the dealer makes or looses money on the deal. That's why the salespeople will sometimes pull actual cash (or write a cheque, as happened to me one time) out of their own pocket, on-the-spot, and give it to you, to keep the deal from falling apart. (like, if you're only $100 or $200 apart) Some dealerships won't let them do that, or more precisely, don't want to witness that happening; so the sales person will have to do it on-the-sly; others will pretend to do it on the sly, as a sales technique, but everyone knows it's happening.
"Old-school" techniques are still alive, folks; only being augmented with newer & refined techniques. Don't believe for a moment that his business didn't adapt REALLY quickly to the internet informantion age: they not only adapted but are using it to THEIR advantage; very successfully.
well, gotta go; good luck to y'all who still are hunting, and hang in there: your car & your deal will come, as long as you stay somewhat detached, emotionally, from the actual, final purchasing process once you locate & decide on your special car. Don't be impatient during this final step; that's the best advice anyone can give you.
Rick
Always negotiate the drive off price since they will pad it with ad valorem tax, document fee and other bogus fees, especially if you bargain hard up front on selling price.
To arrive at invoice price, check Edmunds but quick approximation is 90% of MSRP will get you the ballpark #. As Consumer Report states these are artificial numbers since the true dealership cost is invoices less holdbacks, commisions and factory incentives= wholesale price. Work the SP up from wholesale, and not down. Get CR's true car price not Edmund;s TMV, which is inflated and even dealers love to refer to it.
I am looking at Honda Accord LX-P 4 cyl 4 dr 5spd AT , the drive off price the dealers will sell for is 21k and SP is 19,500 and its invoice is 21,400. Its due to factory incentives. BTW EX 4dr Accord drive off price 22,500, no problem!
Love Hyundai's styling and features, but Accord has terrific resale and Sonata doesn't, so why pay premium price? Buy 100k bumper to bumper warranty from Honda for 1200 and in long run you are still ahead due to resale. Honda is slightly noisy due to tighter suspension, but has superior handling specially the steering!
Love the 2011 Sonata but have some concerns. It's a introductory models with gas direct injection that is notorious for injectors getting clogged. Resale value on Sonata is not the best, so paying higher intro. price is not prudent- It will have rebates within a year, as they always do.
I am getting Accord LX-P or EX 4 cyl AT 4 dr. sedan for 1900 off invoice due to factory incentives, so I will play it safe LX-P drive off price @ 21k and Ex at 22,600.
Thanks,
http://blogs.automotive.com/6639078/opinion/2011-hyundai-sonata-gls-ahead-of-toy- ota-ford-chevy-in-resale-value/index.html
Thanks.
Hyundai in Elgin, IL tried to jack me around, I would avoid them. Shortly after I bought it, O'Hare hyundai offered me the same car for 19,200 OTD. Oh well, still feel good about the 20,800
Look up new vehicles. Put all equipment you want and check your invoice price and any deal Hyundai is offering. (Rebates, low % loans). Then let Edmonds send your email to a local dealer or two. The internet manager will make you a great deal. Always buy through the internet manager. Good luck.
I got my sis even a better deal. She Accord LX-P 4 dr AT with protection pkg. for 19,400 about 2500 less than invoice. Its an impossible deal but 19,500-20,000 is doable! Accord has best reliability and resale index and I think its better driving vehicle except slightly more road noise due to firmer suspension.
I am finding superb deals on Accords which are very safe bet, despite all the auto journalists pronouncing them such an unfit class leader. Their excellent reliability, resale and excellent driving dynamics makes them a great deal. Accord LX-P 4 dr AT is being sold under 2 k invoice and so are other models. Even Altimas and Camry are being discounted.
van
Also, the "bounce" in car sales is coming off of the worse year for sales (i.e. 2009) that we had in the U.S. in 42 years, despite the fact that the country is twice the size now than it was then.
In 2005, nearly 17.8 million new vehicles were sold. Last year, that number fell, even with cash-for-clunkers and other stimulative actions by government, to 9.9 million.
A bounce to 11 million units, or roughly thereabout, in 2010 and 2011 is not necessarily healthy, and may in fact be a very troubling sign of another dip down that will take place in the future (the dreaded double dip recession that turns into a depression, potentially). This IS ESPECIALLY TRUE NOW THAT TARP, TALF and other government stimulus, which has been supporting the economy in large part, is winding down due to economic (i.e. deficit) and political (i.e. upcoming elections) concerns.
Therefore, anyone paying anywhere near MSRP for ANY new car, with very few, rare exceptions, is being played a fool, IMO.
FWIW, I see Hyundai Sonatas selling for $1,800 to $2,800 under MSRP routinely, and these prices are only so high because Hyundai was one of the few manufacturers to reduce manufacturer based incentives SO FAR this year.
Do not forget, however, that these are still mass produced goods, that roughly the same number are produced off the line each day, and that any slow down in buying will put fast pressure on any manufacturer, including Hyundai, to increase incentives to the point where they think they will not have to slow down production (this is because of 'economies of scale' production method advantages).
I personally think the U.S. and global economy is going to get much worse, and all manufacturers, with few exceptions (the very prestige brands, MAYBE), will have to increase subsidies and incentives in the months that follow.
For most buyers, the total price to buy a car is affected by sale price, trade-in value, and finance rate. A trade-in value that is well above market and a subsidized finance rate that is well below market might result in paying MSRP and still be a great deal. Similarly, getting a car at invoice and then getting ripped off on your trade or not getting the best finance rate might be just as foolish.
Negotiate these factors separately, and then consider their combined affect in determining whether you have a good deal or not.