CONSIDERATE Salespeople & CONSIDERATE Buyers

imidazol97 · November 2004

I had one and I'm told the mixture of sedatives is to relax you into twilight sleep and to cause amnesia.

When I came out of the exam I could remember watching the screen at least near the end of the procedure, but as the minutes wore on I couldn't remember anymore.

Apparently you're awake enough you can cooperate with them during the exam. One chemical was brextanil or something like that. I had been given that during prep for a major surgery. It also has been mentioned in drug arrests.

The most pleasant part of the exam was being told to come back in 10 years for the next one since they found nothing...

bobst · November 2004

I am glad to hear that things are looking better for you and your family. It is especially nice to see you have the same positive attitude you have always shown in your postings. You have a lot to live for.

I had a colonoscopy last year, and it wasn't at all unpleasant. He even gave me some nice pictures when he finished.

mackabee · November 2004

If you are 50 or older get it done! There is nothing to it. I think the worst part is the prep with the laxatives and stuff but the actual procedure is a walk in the park. You won't remember much of it and it's completely painless. This last time I had the upper and lower endoscopy done (with separate scopes of course!) and I also remember vaguely looking at the screens and mainly beeing out of it. The only thing I do remember is when I was coming to and seeing the doctor and my son walking behind him with a things didn't look so good look on his face. That being said please do it and don't delay.
: )
Mackabee

KCRam · November 2004

Thanks for the update - we hosts are pulling for you too!

prophet2 · November 2004

We're all pulling for you, Mack.

I advise getting tests done even as precautionary procedures. Because I'm at added risk for heart attacks and strokes due to being diabetic for 12 years, I made a bee-line for the cardiologist for a full stress-test EKG as recommended by my endocrinologist. Result - no blockage or any other coronary problems.

OTOH, my classmate's husband ignored his symptoms and her pleas to him to see a doctor. He decided to increase his exercise routine instead, with fatal consequences. He had a heart attack while jogging and dropped dead. Near-100% blockage in his coronaty arteries.

I actually spoke with him at Sears Automotive a few hours before his fatal attack.

I find it advantageous to heed the advice of professionals.

jaserb · November 2004

A local TV personality had a colonoscopy done on air recently, trying to get more people to go out and get screened. After they showed the clip her co-host turned to her and said, "Thanks, Michelle. That's a side of you we've never seen before."

-Jason

waitinfor06ion · December 2004

Welcome back, Mackabee. You've been missed.
My condolences in the loss of your mother. My mom passed away in 2002. My dad and I miss her.
Congratulations on the new arrival of Mac the III + your son and family's return to Stateside.

Waiting...

waitinfor06ion · December 2004

That's right!

The prep IS the worse part. I slept through my colonoscopy. The first thing out of my mouth was: "Did you turn me back on?". I've had a defibrilator-pacemaker since 1995.

My Mom had a foot of intestines taken out due to cancer 7/4/1999 (?). She was miserable and gassy for several days.

Keep the faith and the best attitude that you can. Your supportive family and your supportive friends are also part of the package deal.

waiting....

mackabee · December 2004

Thank you for the kind words. I'm hanging in right now.
: )
Mackabee

pat · December 2004

Glad to hear it, mack - keep in touch.

mackabee · December 2004

I was looking out the window Saturday morning when I saw the mail truck come by. I was surprised as it was only 10:30 in the morning and usually he doesn't make his rounds until after 12 noon and sometimes after 2pm. I walked out to the mail box and opened it to find it empty! "Hmmm, that was strange" I thought, and walked back inside as the truck drove away. I looked outside again and noticed the sky was beginning to turn gray. "We got some rain coming" I thought. I sat down at my computer and begin surfing the news sites. Same old stuff. I went to the living room and turned on the Tv and began watching The Bourne Supremacy which my youngest son Mark had bought for me the day before. (He has bought quite a few DVD's for me lately, Spider Man 2, Dodgeball, Last Samurai, so I've been catching up on a few flicks) The movie was quite good and now I want to see the first one which is called the Bourne Identity I believe. Right around the time the movie was over my wife arrives from her morning workout. My wife is amazing! She works out first thing in the morning before going to work and sometimes twice a day! Anyway, she walks in with the mail in her hand and I look at her with a puzzled look on my face. "What's wrong Honey? Are you ok?" she asks worried. "Where did you get that?" I ask. "It was in the mail box." she replies. So I tell her about the mailman driving by two hours earlier and not leaving anything. She thinks nothing of it and hands me a beige envelope addressed to me but with no return address. I look at the postmark and it's coming from St. Louis, Mo. "What is it?" she asks me. "I don't know, it looks like a Christmas card. Strange, there is no return address on it." I walk over to the sofa and sit down and open the envelope. Inside is the most beautiful card I have ever received in my whole entire life! The front reads: "Thinking of You". I open the card and the right hand side reads: "To let you know you're being thought about and wished a quick recovery." "We are all thinking of you, and wishing for a successful treatment and a speedy recovery. All the best, The Hosts at Edmunds.com and you Forum Friends" On the left of the card are two pages with personal notes from Rich/Audia8q, KCram, Bobst (Yes! Bob!), Lancerfixer, Karen S, Mathias Steine13, dbgindy, driftracer, imidazol97, Craig IsellHondas, and Kirstie_h_kost. As I sat there and read all your messages, tears started streaming down my eyes. My wife came over and sat next to me and began comforting me. "What is it honey? What's wrong"? she asked. "This is amazing, this card is from people that I only know through the internet on Edmund's where I post stories from work sometimes and look at what they took the time to do for me!" Thank you all! This is the best gift I have received this Holiday season.

Victor

akangl · December 2004

You keep working on getting better. Although I didn't *sign* the card I am thinking of you and praying for a speedy recovery. Hope you have a wonderful Christmas and an even better New Year!!

driftracer · December 2004

and it's sincere, and I feel I can speak for all of us.

Kirstie_H · December 2004

There were, I'm sure, many more who would have loved to "sign" the card, and all of us feel the same - we really do wish you the best, Mack, and I'm glad the card brought you some cheer!

KCRam · December 2004

All too happy to do that - and yes, all the props go to Kirstie for spearheading the effort. We all relate to cancer, directly or indirectly - and I definitely know the importance of keeping someone's spirits up.

scanty · December 2004

who thinks that an essay from Mack is a positive sign.

It's funny how this internet thingy creates friendships. Something as simple as seeking out a group of people with similar interests, and sending words over wires to people that we have never met is enough to form a genuine connection.

This has quickly become my favorite forum. No riff raff, no trolls, just a good group of folks, and a nice place to hang out. Good thing that there aren't any considerate people in the car buying process, or some unsuspecting person might stumble in here and wonder what's going on.

So a tip of the hat to Kirstie for thinking of this, and a thank you to Mack for writing about it. And get well soon.

black_tulip · December 2004

Mack, my best wishes for a speedy recovery. Over the years, I have had countless hours of pleasure from your stories. And thanks for the good advice that you have given out generously.

<<...and yes, all the props go to Kirstie for spearheading the effort. >>

Ah, that explains why this topic is still open in spite of all these "off-topic" posts

bobst · December 2004

As I mentioned to Isell in a message last week, the internet can separate people who use it to avoid human contact, but it also brings together many people with a common interest.

A few years ago I was in a golf DG, and one of the key participants was a lady named Patsy in Georgia. She gave very good advice to a lot of people. As it turned out, she was a very experienced amateur golfer but was at home with a serious spinal problem. The internet let her share her golf knowledge with many others, enriching her life as well as ours.

Mack, we all admire your spirit and hope you have a full recovery. We are glad that Kirstie gave us all a chance to add something to the card she sent. In the meantime, please keep contributing to these forums. Since you sell a lot more cars than we could ever buy, you definitely have a lot more stories to tell than we do.

That is why we keep repeating the same old stories. Hey, that reminds me. Have you heard the one about the guy who wanted two extra keys when he bought a Honda?

Best wishes, Victor

Bob

imidazol97 · December 2004

story about a real estate lady and buying a car that needs an ending? OR did I miss it...

prophet2 · December 2004

I had such a story, but believe that I completed it. There were two cars, a Civic for her son and a Maxima for herself. Each deal took six HOURS and the Nissan dealer almost called the police!

That was in the "Inconsiderate Buyer" thread which is archived (no current postings).

isellhondas · December 2004

Good story, Mack!

I was telling someone at work yesterday that there are three kinds of customers.

1. The "average" customer. These are the people that I enjoyed, for the most part, working with. The transaction went well, and I would be happy to see them again. In order to really remember these people I have to go back into my Autobase and read my notes.

2. The customers I hope I never see again. I don't have to go into my notes to remember the misery they caused me or the bad survey they gave me etc.

3. Then there the customers who have become friends. These people would be welcome in my home anytime. They stop by my desk when they are in for service. They refer people to me. I really cherish this expanding group of people.

Now, the majority of my customers I would place in the first catagory. I think they would feel the same way about me. To them, I was just "a salesperson" who treated them fine.

Very few people in the second group. In nine years and after selling a couple thousand cars I would probably place ten people, if that in that group. If you were to ask them, they probably didn't like me either.

Probably pretty typical for a veteran in this crazy business.

prophet2 · December 2004

Those may be classified as CLIENTS. They are the goal for all of us in sales and marketing.

Most will fall in category #1. We'd all have been better off to NOT have made the deal for those in #2.

gkbenji · December 2004

This seems like a good place to post about my recent car buying experience. One not-so-considerate salesman, and one very pleasant experience.

I was looking for a used Saab 9-5 wagon. The first place, a dealer, turned me off. After sending a greenpea with me for the test drive and mechanical inspection, the guy who I actually dealt with gave me the following BS:

1. While looking at my potential trade, said, "The service manager knows someone interested in a car just like this." A 14-year-old Jetta with 130K miles? Riiiiiight.

2. Asked me to sign a blank worksheet.

3. Asked me for references, and told me it was a provision of the USA Patriot Act for anyone buying a car (he was really filling out a credit app).

4. Both #2 and #3 happened before we had even started negotiations on the car.

5. His best line of the night: "Sir, this isn't a used car, it's pre-owned!"

6. Kept splitting out the Certified warrantee as an addition cost over the price of the car, after I said I wanted to negotiate a lump-sum price.

7. Brought back the obligatory "You're killing me!" notes from the sales manager, several times, even though we were so far apart on price we were wasting everyone's time.

Contrast this to the place I ended up buying from, Weisco Motors in Denver CO:

1. Actual salesperson accompanied me to the mechanic, and even had a problem I'd found (elec. seat adjustment broken) fixed while we were there and paid for the fix.

2. Did not push for my trade-in at all (I told them right away I was selling it myself)

3. Priced the car reasonably, so the negotiation started at a reasonable spot.

4. Did not ask me to sign *anything* until we had agreed on a price.

5. No mumbo-jumbo worksheets or anything--no paper during the negotiations, and the buyer's order was very simple and just one side of one page.

6. Did not push or send me to an F&I guy when told I already had financing; in fact, they looked up my credit union's rate for me and found I already had better.

7. Knew their product, were patient, helpful and respectful.

The difference between my two experiences was night and day.

Weisco Motorcars sells new and used upscale import cars (Saab, BMW, Jag, Mercedes, Lexus, etc.). If you're looking for something like that in the Denver area, I highly recommend them.

isellhondas · December 2004

The first store sounds like a "typical" dealership. Lots out there.

I'm surprised they actually went along when you had the car inspected? I sure wouldn't have the time for that!

Don't they inspect the cars themselves and provide you with a copy of the inspection.

We do this, we are so detailed in these that 99% of the time the customer feels no need for another inspection. If they do, fine!

Congratulations.

cdallen2004 · December 2004

Hello guys:

I am a 19 year old, and a Dallas-based business owner. I own a internet/web based IT firm. I work in a pretty upscale residential/commericial neighborhood and I consider myself to be a business professional.

Down the street from the office builing, we have a Porsche and Mercedes dealership named Park Place Motors. They have been in this area for many years and it is well known to cater to Dallas' upscale automotive clients (the rich...lol).

I am considering buying a Porsche Boxster soon (the new redesigned model) and I was wondering what you all thought about a 19 year young man buying a car of this caliber. The only reason I am asking is because of the possible skeptism when it comes to a test drive. Do you think the dealer will take me seriously when it comes to test driving the car? Or should I go ahead and purchase the Porsche without ever driving it?

Just wanted to hear some advice on this. I am thinking that the dealership will just brush me off and not take me seriously.

Please help me!

driftracer · December 2004

originally from Texas...

There WILL BE skepticism, no way around it, regardless of your status, just because of your age.

Congrats on your success - my recommendation is to sit down with the F&I manager or sales manager, explain your obviously good financial position, and let them know you're serious. Chances are, if you take that approach, there'll be no uncomfortable "go away, kid" attitude by a salesperson simply greeting you on the lot.

cdallen2004 · December 2004

ah. interesting. well thanks....

bobst · December 2004

Bring along a bank statement to show them how much money you have.

What's that? You don't have a lot of money in the bank? Then you shouldn't be buying a Porsche. See you at the Mazda dealer.

A story: A friend said he would pay a guy $100 to paint his porch out back. The guy said "fine".

Later the guy came back and said, "I finished, but it wasn't a porch. It was a Mercedes."

cdallen2004 · December 2004

i think ill send them a letter in the mail describing my business and such and my particular age situation and stuff.....

great story, ive heard it before.....but i dont understand it....

can you fill me in?

ksccts · December 2004

Porsche, if pronounced incorrectly by some, sounds like "porch". The joke: paint my porch; I did but it's actually a Mercedes. He painted a car not the house. Get it?

cdallen2004 · December 2004

I still dont get it....:(

andyman73 · December 2004

painter is a yokel, doesn't understand that homeowner is refering to the front area of his house when he pronounces (front)porch like Porsche. So, moron painter paints the car, then tells owner that his "porsche" is a Mercedes. Having lived in North Carolina and Tennesse, I can attest to hearing them mid-southerners accents while speaking. And yes, it's quite easy to see how a feeble minded painter could be confused.

andyman73 · December 2004

Not to say that the joke is aimed at Southerners, just my own personal experience being used to help explain the joke.

BTW maybe arranging to buy the Porsche(not porch

) online may help alliviate some of the issues of salesreps not taking a kid seriously. I wish you the best of luck, and would gladly be in your shoes, with this kind of dilemma. I hope you enjoy every second of your new Boxter, may it bring you millions of smiles per gallon!!!

mark156 · December 2004

Cdallen, you live in Texas and you didn't get the accent of "porch" for Porche? Maybe you shouldn't be driving one!

Another word I like in the south is "bidness" for business.

Salesman talking to Cdallen...

Salesman: (sucking his teeth after lunch with a toothpick in his mouth) "Come'on son, let's take this lil' Porch out for a test drive and then we can com'on back and get down to bidness."

)

driftracer · December 2004

even in Texas, we don't let guys who suck and pick their teeth in front of customers sell Porsches. Or Fords. Or Dodges..

cdallen2004 · December 2004

How do you buy a car online?

kyfdx · December 2004

I've done it, but I wouldn't recommend it.. Especially if you are new to car buying.. Buy from a reputable, local dealer....

jglackin · December 2004

I see you're still looking for a car! I was just on that dealer's website, and you can link to a page that will allow you to request additional information about any of their new or used vehicles very easily. I think I would go that route...leave out the age (and the bit you post on all the boards here about your success)...and find your car. Eventually, you'll have to talk to someone on the phone; that would be a good time to discuss your particular buying position.

jlflemmons · December 2004

I'm figuring most of you folks don't frequent the Hyundai boards, so I'll give you the short version.

After 30 months and 42K miles trouble free, a shoulder injury put and end to my driving a stick. I was shifting over 300 times a day just going to/from work, and while the Elantra was having zero problems, the owner was.

So, I walk into the dealership where I have bought 15 cars previously and said "Elantra, with an auto, please". Turns out there is an extra $500 factory rebate in the southwest that is not advertised on the Hyundai web site, other than the legal claim "Other incentives may apply, contact your local dealer." No pressure, no hassle, the trade in was by the book, and $2700 in rebates, plus trade, plus some extra I wanted to put down. They asked if they could finance, I just told them I was approved for 3.95 through my CU and the finance guy just told me they couldn't beat it, took the fax number and sent them the P.O. for funding.

It was raining the night I picked up the car, so I brought it back a couple of days later for a full detail.

It is sad to hear of folks jumping from one dealer to another over a fraction of a percent of the total deal. I wish each buyer could have a reputable honest dealer to go to when they need to purchase and be able to drive away knowing they were treated fairly.

And I hope this Elantra is as good as the last. I was very reluctant to buy that '02, but it was the most trouble free auto I have owned in a long time.

Mac, Merry Christmas, bro, and many, many more.

And to all of you who have taught me to use paragraphs so you don't go blind trying to follow my long winded diatribes, the very best. May your holiday be filled with friends, joy, and happiness, and the new year bring you comfort, success, and contentment.

Jim

bobst · December 2004

who jump from one dealer to another.

Well, that would be me.

In 1997 we offered a certain price for an Accord. They refused. We went somewhere else and offered .3% more. They also turned us down.

Then we again increased our offer by .3%, called another dealer, and they accepted. We went there, wrote out a check for that amount, and drove our new car home.

By the way, it has been a wonderful car. It now has 80k miles, and we just gave it to our son this weekend.

So what do we have in common, Jim? We both enjoy the car-buying experience. Since we both work hard for our money, we can spend it however we like, as long as we don't try to hurt other people.

Who knows, maybe someday I will want to be like you and I will go out and buy 16 Hyundais. Stranger things have happened. Or have they?

jlflemmons · December 2004

16 Hyundais would have to be a record! The dealership is a multiline outfit that happens to carry the various brands that met our needs over the years.

And you just keep shopping the way that works for you. What works for me is not for everyone, as my Dad was an auto broker at the time we first dealt with this dealership. So, first car we bought from them we established that I could go out of town and buy the car at cost, real cost, but that I was willing for them to make a reasonable profit so that they would stay in business to handle any warranty type issues. I do most all of my own maintenance and repairs.

Here where I live there is a dirth of really good dealers, and a lot of screamer ad, no credit, no problem, outfits that feed on the guppies coming out of U.T. You would not believe some of the horror stories I have heard from the youngsters coming into the work force.

But, today is Christmas. We have had a wonderful morning with the kids, will be sharing Christmas dinner with good friends, and I had time and opportunity to visit here with a long time contributor. Life is good.

The very best to you and all the cohorts here on the board.

Jim

andyman73 · December 2004

Maybe Cdallen will just go on over to the Porsche dealer and "git 'er done"

cdallen2004 · December 2004

"...and the bit you post on all the boards here about your success.."

In the words of Donald Trump, "If you don't tell people about your success, they probably wont know about it."

(Trump, How to Get Rich: Big deals from the star of The Apprentice)

audia8q · December 2004

trump should write a book on how to run a business into bankruptcy multiple times while suckering the banks to give him millions to keep it all aloat...that takes alot more talent than doing it the wharton way.

kyfdx · December 2004

Yeah.. but, he is still stuck with that hair..

jglackin · December 2004

Problem is, people here come here for one reason. Cars. You'll never hear those of us in the business talk about what a great month we had, or how rich we are. Leave it out. Cars.

My greater point is...You seem, from your writing style only, to be mature. Let your maturity stand on its own when shopping for a car, whether it be a $2000 used car, or an $80000 new one. I know that I would consider a buyer of ANY age more serious if they presented themselves in a mature manner than if they came into the showroom touting their success.

kyfdx · December 2004

A lot of personal advice there...

For a website devoted to cars, I mean.. lol

cdallen2004 · December 2004

You're absolutely right. I only included the Trump statement as a joke...Sorry if I have seemed to be bragging about my business.

Anyways, I have had some horrible experiences with car dealers, and mostly because of the small town where I grew up and the no-name dealerships in it.

I am absolutely sure that upscale, more reputable dealers like Park Place, Boardwalk, or Millennium Motors would never treat anyone in that manner no matter how young or old they were.

mark156 · December 2004

Don't count your chickens......

Mark

steine13 · December 2004

"I am absolutely sure that upscale, more reputable dealers like Park Place, Boardwalk, or Millennium Motors would never treat anyone in that manner no matter how young or old they were."

Oh man... and just when the "Inconsiderate Salespeople" thread has been closed...

This ought to be good.

-Mathias

CONSIDERATE Salespeople & CONSIDERATE Buyers

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