What Car is Right For Me? Help Me Choose!

djm2 · May 2011

Good Morning sandman_6472:

Kindly be advised that "FACTS" come from "real life experience!" ------ (If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, chances are it is a duck!) ---- I make it a point to listen to everyone's opinion, because in their opinion's, lies "facts. ---- I also make it a point to engage in an extensive amount of research, and then I make up my own mind! ----- Everyone who purchases a vehicle thinks that they have made a GREAT purchase! That is just human nature! ---- When I want to enter a highway, I want a transmission that will "down shift" to the next lower gear, and give me a "strong burst of speed" to enter the highway in safe manner.

I do not want to deal with a technology that puts me at risk, and requires me to adjust my driving habits to fit the technology. (My OPINION!)

Best regards. ------------- Dwayne :shades:

plekto · May 2011

Well... :P I've only made two "great" purchases in my life...

My 67 Mercedes. God, what a great car. Got rid of it when the engine finally wore out after 40 years. (it's what makes me dream of another S Class some day...)
My Volvo 164E - Superb. Loved it - poor thing died a sad death.

Everything else since then has been a compromise at best. So there are some of us who love cars but are also consummate tire-kickers as well

wik82 · May 2011

Just an update here guys. Spent most of the afternoon at my local Hyundai dealer. It was really a great experience. I test drove a Sonata and an Optima. The thing was, the only NON turbo Sonata they had was manual and I didn't feel comfortable doing that (It's been very long and I never mastered it as both my cars were automatics). So, I only got to try a turbo Sonata. Overall, both were very nice. The salesman I talked to was a great guy, no pressure, very informative.

Just from pics, I had been leaning Optima over a Sonata. After (possibly because of the turbo, not sure) I am leaning Sonata. I preferred the Sonata's interior setup and in person, the look of the car stands out a bit more, in my humble opinion. Optima is about 400ish lower sticker price for a comparable Sonata though and with the two bonuses (which I qualify for) the Kia would be another 1k less...

The 2012 Sonatas are coming out soon. I was told by the end of June at the latest, they should have some. Thing is, they weren't told (or the story I got goes) that the 2011s weren't going to be able to be ordered anymore. The last inventory order came about 3 months ago. They basically have 2 new Sonatas and 3 Elentras on the entire lot because they didn't know this and only ordered for the 45 day period which is norm, instead of the 90. The 2011 Optimas though are going to be around for a few more months he said (the Hyundai and Kia dealership are owned by the same guys, the Kia dealership had actually sent over a couple cars, the Optima I tried being one to help fill out the inventory). BUT I e-mailed the Kia dealership 2 days ago and haven't had a reply yet. Frustrating and he even said that is bad because they have people on staff specifically for e-mail communication, etc etc.

Anyhow, I liked both, alot. Not enough, however, to warrant me giving up on the Accord. So, more or less, I am at the point that the Accord, Sonata and Optima are all top considerations, all seem fairly similar. I enjoy the look of the Sonata the most I think, but the Accord has the most features, but I could get the Kia for 1,400 less than the Sonata...oh car shopping!!! lol

Oh, also, I explained to him that I was considering a new job and he said I should drop an application off there. So out of everything, I also got a job offer hahaha

djm2 · May 2011

Hi:
On the Re-sale side of the issue, you would be better off with the Honda Accord. ----- If you are willing to keep the vehicle 6+ years,(100,000 miles), then you are "ok" with anyone of the three vehicles, because the value will then equal out! ---- With the Hyundai and the Kia, you need to get the best possible price when you purchase the vehicle, because they lose value quickly as compared to the Honda. ---- I have driven the Sonata and the Genesis, and they are VERY nice vehicles. As I stated earlier, I would consider purchasing a Hyundai, "IF" I could find a professional Hyundai Dealer in North Jersey. In my part of the country, they tend to be one notch lower than a Chrysler Dealer, and that is LOW! ----- (When you insure your new vehicle, put the type of "collision coverage" that replaces the vehicle should it be totaled. It costs a little more, but it is worth it for the first five years of ownership!) ------ Best of LUCK with your purchase! ---- Enjoy your new toy! ------ Best regards. --------- Dwayne :shades:

rustum · May 2011

I am really liking optima based on whatever i am reading in reviews. I will plan a test drive some time later. I should have waited my new car purchase for some time instead of getting Accord. I got accord during Sep 2010. Hopefully, Kia / Hyundai build on this success and improves them further in next iterations.

plekto · May 2011

Again, if you get the Accord with manual (video game easy to use, honest), it will get significantly better MPG than the Hyundai and drive much smoother on rough roads and the like. It's just more refined and, well, it should be. Honda doesn't make junk and has been at it decades longer than Hyundai.

Kirstie_H · May 2011

Not entirely true at this point. Sonata is holding its resale value VERY well at the moment.

rustum · May 2011

I ruled out Manual option considering my family needs. So, i ended up getting Accord AT. I did test drive Sonata. I actually own 2001 V6 used sonata. My wife is still learning her driving on that car. I don't know, somehow new Sonata design did not grow on me. Elantra seems to be good in similar design. May be i will get Elantra for my wife by trading in our old sonata after some time.

I ended up liking Accord. Accord seemed to me a good alternative for my family needs instead of getting CRV / Minivan. I am kinda disappointed in my purchase considering other better alternatives like Altima and Optima (mechanically, price and functionality) and mpg improvements to even 2011 Accord.

djm2 · May 2011

Hi:
You are correct, "IF" you trade a "Hyundai" for a "New Hyundai," ---- but if you trade a "Hyundai" for a new "non-Hyundai product, ---- you will not do as well! That is how Hyundai holds their customers! -------- Best Regards. ----------- Dwayne :shades: :confuse:

plekto · May 2011

If you got the 4 cylinder model, it'll get very good highway MPG. And there are tweaks that you can do to the tires especially that will get you an extra MPG or two (lower resistance tires and going up a size) 23/26 new EPA - original window sticker was closer to 22/31, IIRC. With the AC off and proper tire choice, it'll get almost 35 highway on longer trips. Even my old Park Avenue "beater" (such a nice car, doesn't quite fit the beater image - heh) gets 30mpg on long trips, so 35 out of a 4 cylinder Accord is pretty standard if you use cruise control and let it spin along as it wants to.

Also, the tires on the Accord are too large. You best MPG is actually with higher profile tires. The weight of the car is (assuming a 4 cylinder ~2007 model) 3100 lbs. That means that it can safely get by with modern 13 inch tires. (!) Anything over that in size is the manufacturer catering to the 0-60 crowd and ofr styling purposes only (especially in an under 200HP car) Lower profile tires are always going to give you a harsher ride as well. And cost more.

The trick is to find a replacement rim that fits the Accord's bolts and offset.
Stock is 205 60 R16
The trick here is to find 14 or 15 inch Honda rims that will fit and up-size the tires to match. This will increase MPG and give a softer ride on the road. Slightly less cornering, but I've had cars of the same weight in the past with 14 inch tires on them that I had to work hard to get to lose traction.

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15096
The bolt pattern is 5x114.3 and a 55mm offset. Honda thankfully uses the same rims and sizes for several years. The 2007 is identical to the 2006, just not listed on that chart. This means that you can swap pretty much any 15 inch rim with that bolt pattern safely onto your car.

Just something to consider when it's time for new rubber. The size you'd need for those 15 inchers would be: 225/60/15 (better match) or 205/65/15 (much better selection) Saving $20-$25 a tire and the better ride might be worth swapping rims.

rustum · May 2011

I bought 2010 LXP Sedan (4 Cyl).

backy · May 2011

Again, if you get the Accord with manual (video game easy to use, honest), it will get significantly better MPG than the Hyundai and drive much smoother on rough roads and the like.

Hyundai Sonata 2.4L MT MPG (EPA): 24/35, 28 combined
Honda Accord 2.4L MPG (EPA): 23/33, 27 combined

As for the Accord driving smoother... that is not my experience, although the 2008-11 Accords have a smoother ride (and less-crisp steering) than previous generations.

cool_sd · May 2011

Hi folks, I am planning to buy Nissan Altima, preferring it over Hyundai Sonata , my budget is 25k and would like to get the maximum features ......I am not liking Hyundai because of more wind noise in the freeway (only bad point) ........... I visited Nissan dealers and liked Nissan altima very much, nice smooth engine ...... Got out of the door price of fully loaded (all packages - backup camera, bluetooth ... except Navigation) Nissan Altima SL for 27500 .... I told dealer i will buy if he gives for 26200 ..... do you guys think I am making right choice by going for Nissan Altima SL and do you think this is the right price?
Highly appreciate your response ..... I have no experience in buying cars

qbrozen · May 2011

choosing and buying the car you like best is definitely the right choice.

wik82 · May 2011

Dwayne,

I had initially agreed with you but after searching on Cars.com as well as several other sites, I am finding that the used Sonatas and Optimas are doing very well on re-sale value. I was told that Civics, which ruled that class for something like 15 years, was just beaten out by Elantras in highest re-sale value!

igozoomzoom · May 2011

Consumer Reports rates the Altima higher than every other mid-size sedan, so Id say its a very safe choice. As for pricing and getting the best deal, instead of out the door price, the actual price before sales tax and any fees would be a more useful number to have. Also, where are you located (so I can see what incentives may be available).let me know and Ill tell you what I think!

cool_sd · May 2011

Thanks igozoomzoom for the reply. I got the irresitable deal today and bought it.
I had two options basically. I chose the second one. Thought that was a good deal. Got the additional bonus also as the car was already tinted.
1. 26500 OTD price + Nissan financing (4.19% rate per my credit)
2. 27750 OTD price + Nissan financing 0%, 60 months

Here are the car details:
Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
MSRP as configured: $29,155
Invoice as configured: $27,017

Exterior: Super black
Interior: Blonde leather
Options: · [B10] SPLASH GUARDS (SGD)
· [H01] 2.5S PREMIUM AUDIO PKG (AUD)
· [K01] CONVENIENCE PKG (CN1)
· [K02] CONVENIENCE PLUS PKG (CN2)
· [K03] 2.5SL PKG (SLP)
· [K04] SPECIAL EDITION PKG (SEP)
· [R10] REAR SPOILER (SPL)
· [S10] FOG LIGHTS (FOG)

Kirstie_H · May 2011

You seem to have mistaken my statement for a question.

While I appreciate you informing me that I am partially correct, I assure you that I am entirely correct, without the exception noted in your post.

Hyundais are beginning to hold resale value very well, irrespective of the vehicle purchased.

gmcustsvc · May 2011

wik82,
I did a search on GMCertifiedUsed.com and was able to find one. I would definitely recommend looking into this vehicle. The 2011 Cruze:
 Is a compact car that offers the spaciousness
and amenities of a midsize car.
 Features segment-leading fuel economy.
 Has segment-leading safety with 10 air bags, standard
StabiliTrak and OnStar.
 Is built to the highest quality and durability standards
with testing done around the world.

(http://www.farnsworthgroup.com/VehicleDetails/used-2011-Chevrolet-Cruze-Sedan_1- LT-Canandaigua-NY/1029673083)

Christina
GM Customer Service

Kirstie_H · May 2011

That looks like a very nice, gently used vehicle. Very gently. However, it does lack a sunroof, which seemed to be an important feature to our consumer.

imidazol97 · May 2011

If you are looking for a new smaller car, I definitely suggest you drive the Cruze. There are several versions available. The roadholding performance would vary some--roughly look at the wheel diameter for the tires: the more aggressive cars have the larger rim sizes.

I was just browsing the local dealer lot yesterday and they had some with sunroofs in stock. They actually had several Cruze's and two or three were the ECO model for even higher mileage.

I suggest you forget the stereotypes that linger of which are the great cars and which are the ones that are problematic and drive them yourself. But drive the model with the tires and options you think you are interested in.

As someone who had done critical distinction cross-shopping for many cars through the years, I must comment that the difference of an EPA gas mileage rating that varies by 2-3 mpg is probably insignificant in the real world. Also, a car that gets 36 mpg versus one getting 39 while cruzing on the highway isn't going to cost much more. In town mileage if you are in a suburban or urban area is more meaningful. When you test drive any car, set the digital fuel economy gauge so you can use you gut feeling of how it does relative to the driving style and particular road patterns you test drove.

Furthermore, if a car gets allegedly 3 more miles per gallon at highway cruising speed (50 mph) does it get 3 more miles per gallon at 70-75 than the other car? Also does a car that may get better mileage need a larger fuel tank? No, the tank size is somewhat irrelevant unless there are few gas stations in the area you are living or planning to travel. Carrying more gallons of fuel in stop and go driving lowers the mileage.

Good luck in your search.

Kirstie_H · May 2011

Have you held off on a car purchase because you're waiting for a better deal? Or did you go ahead and buy because you assume car prices could just rise even further this summer? An Associated Press reporter would like to talk with you. Please send your contact information to Aaron Lewis at pr@edmunds.com

kyfdx · May 2011

I'm pretty impressed with the Cruze.. It's hard to believe that it is the replacement for the Cobalt.. A very nice looking sedan, as well..

gmcustsvc · May 2011

kirstie_h,
I noticed that it did not have a sunroof; however, it was the only Cruze in the country that I could find. This is most likely due to the fact that the vehicle is new to the market. I hope the information was helpful. Depending on when the customer actually purchases they could continue to check the web site for updates.
Christina
GM Customer Service

Kirstie_H · May 2011

Totally understandable - waiting awhile is likely to help with available inventory. Since it's so new, I'd actually recommend purchasing the Cruze new instead of used anyway.

wik82 · May 2011

I went for a test drive in an Altima Monday. Very very nice. I didn't notice any of the CVT transmission issues that people have been bringing up. It had nice power but I felt the handling was a bit more sensitive than the others I had tried. I tried going to Taylor Kia, my local Kia dealership, stood around for 20 minutes waiting to get help, wasn't even acknowledged and left, went down to the Nissan dealer and had great service. I would say at this point, Sonata, Altima, Accord and Optima are the top 4, roughly in that order.

I plan on going to take a test drive for a Cruze tomorrow. I had kind of passed on it but with the good reviews and comments I have seen here, I think I should at least try it before writing it off.

Kirstie_H · May 2011

So far, you've got 4 good choices. I can't see you going wrong with any of them, as long as you are OK with the CVT. Some people love it, some hate it, and some have transmissions that are just plain broken. If you've driven the Altima and it's fine, that question is answered for you.

Good for you on the Cruze - I think it would be a mistake to skip it. It may not be right for you, but you do seem to get a lot of features for the cost.

tifighter · May 2011

I haven't driven one, but I sat in the Cruze at the local car show and was pleasantly surprised. Good room (I'm 6'2") and the materials were very much competitive. I agree with kyfdx that its a handsome car. It is worth a look.

I like the idea of the Eco with the stick.

sbao · May 2011

These three models have some decent incentives this month.

Could anybody share your preference and driving experience?

Or input some pons anc cons? Thank you so much!

backy · May 2011

One great thing about the Cruze is that if you can live with the LS, you can get a great deal on one, at least in my part of the country (Twin Cities). I've seen base models with sticks priced at around $14k and automatics for around $15k. Very hard to beat that in these days of limited car supplies and high gas prices. And even the base LS is very nicely trimmed inside and has all the safety equipment and other basic equipment.... EXCEPT cruise control and (I think) power mirrors. But if you can live w/o those you can buy a very nice small car for a good price.

backy · May 2011

I prefer in this order:

Ford Fusion - great blend of ride and handling.
Nissan Altima - Best styling of the 3, good handling but ride not as smooth/quiet as the Fusion's.
Chevy Malibu - relatively narrow back seat; I don't like the dash except on the LTZ, which is pricey; Fusion has better ride/handling balance.

You've driven all 3, right? If not, you have your mission for the Memorial Day weekend!

wik82 · May 2011

Went for a drive in the Cruze. It was was a nice little car. I don't think it is what I am looking for though. It had nice handling. The suspension seemed VERY nice, probably the most superb thing about the car.

It was a very smooth ride (and the area we drove in was a mix of well paved and god-awful pot-holed gravel areas). Once your at cruise speed (no pun intended) it runs well, isn't loud at all.

The low end, both breaking and accelerating was what turned me off. I could REALLY feel the car shifting (had the automatic 1.4 turbo BTW). It was almost herky-jerky. Obviously the car isn't made for "0-60" times, but the lower acceleration felt sluggish due to the shifting and slowing down also was the same. I was impressed with the room that the driver and passenger was afforded but I question if anyone above 5'6 could fit in the back with comfort. The trunk was nice and it offers the rear fold down seats.

Overall, if I had to list, in order the cars I have liked the most in test drives thus far I would say:

1. Sonata
2. Altima
3. Accord
4. Optima
5. Cruze

This isn't a knock on the Cruze. I rather enjoyed it. But I am trying to move up to a larger car and while it makes great use of its available space, I think the others would better serve me.

Just found out I can't lease due to my credit. So my hopes of having a new car are dashed. I guess that makes the Altima and Accord the most available options. The Kia service is non-existent here which means I would have better luck with a Cruze than an Optima lol. I like the 2011 Optima but the 2011 Sonata is the car that has really stole the show for me. I just have to hope to find a used one for a good price...if not I guess it's a '07-'10 Altima....

plekto · May 2011

The Cruze is great. If you get one with manual, like they design it for in Europe. When *you* select the gears, it's a joy to drive and at least 20-30% faster in traffic.

Note - the Altima, Accord, and Sonata are exactly the same. Get the manual if you care even a little bit about driving dynamics.

backy · May 2011

Note - the Altima, Accord, and Sonata are exactly the same.

I strongly disagree. Major differences in ride, handling, interior room, etc. Also the MT is available only on lowest trim level of the Sonata.

gmcustsvc · May 2011

sbao,
I am unsure what specific vehicles you are considering; however, GM web sites have a Live Chat option. These agents are able to assist with incentives, options and features and their availibility, or locating a dealer or a specifc vehicle. I would definitely recommend utilizing this tool. If you have other questions for me feel free to address me specifically. Have a great weekend!
Christina
GM Customer Service

wik82 · May 2011

I do have to say, I felt that the Altima was more..."squirrley", for lack of a better word, than the Sonata and Accords. Not in a bad way, just a difference in handing. All of them felt pretty smooth to me, although I did not get a chance to drive over nasty roads in them to the extent that I did with the Cruze....

plekto · May 2011

I strongly disagree. Major differences in ride, handling, interior room, etc. Also the MT is available only on lowest trim level of the Sonata.

I was obviously talking about them all having the same advantage in terms of handling and drive-ability in traffic. That the Sonata only comes in the base trim with manual is a major negative against it, then.

It's especially drastic in the Altima. The CVT is a miserable joke in actual traffic where you essentially have to operate the throttle like a toggle switch and ram it to the floor to do a quick bit of acceleration (good luck with MPG at that point). The manual is perfect by comparison. Guess what 90%+ of the rest of the world buys?

And on most of them, having instant access to your best torque range, with a little planning of course, makes the 4 cylinder models operate about as quickly as the 6 cylinder ones. In the Accord, the 4 with manual drives nearly identical to the 6 with automatic due to the gearing ratios. Sure, 0-60 times might be better for the 6, but that's a small part of the story,

backy · May 2011

I had no idea what you meant, it was a pretty general comment.

I've found the CVT in the Altima to drive just fine in normal conditions. I ram the accelerator to the floor about, oh, once a year if that. More than enough power in even my 140 hp Sentra (with CVT) to not have to ram it to the floor. I often wonder how people drive, who talk about having to push the pedal to the floor a lot.

As far as what the rest of the world buys in the Altima (stick vs. CVT), I was not aware that the Altima was a big hit outside the U.S. I always thought it was tailored to the U.S. market. Folks in most other countries prefer smaller cars. And yes, manuals are more popular in other countries. They are a better match for the relatively small engines used in cars outside the U.S. I wonder how many cars overseas get 2.5L, 175 hp I4s? Not many I would expect. Certainly not V6s.

wik82 · May 2011

Just a general question here guys. In the case of 2 cars I had previously been considering, I saw one of each, a 3-series BMW and a Lexus IS250. The Lexus is on a dealer's lot, the 3-series is privately being sold.

Both have been crashed. The Lexus carfax has 29 different records. I have not purchased the carfax, just typed the Vin # in and got the preliminary report thing. It looks like a gem. Completely restored. Great price for the vehicle, obviously because of the past history.

Basically, the same with the 3-series. I texted the seller and he said the only reason he hadn't sold it was because it was a rebuilt title. I am assuming the two cases are similar, although I don't know if the Lexus is a "rebuilt title". I don't know exactly what qualifies as that. That being said, how can you verify and trust something like this? Can you at all?!

Finding out that I am basically ONLY going to be able to go used now (no lease options due to no co-signer) I had gone back and thought about these as, for example, the 3-series has about 40k miles and is perfectly re-built (as far as I can see) for 13,900. Of course it begs the question of "Why does the owner want to sell it if it is fine". Is there a way to take it in somewhere and have it inspected or is that at the dealership/seller's discretion?

Anyhow, I have never looked into this and never dealt with it. So can anyone comment on this? Info/experience and knowledge is appreciated!

wik82 · May 2011

Did this post die on me or people just busy with the holiday?!

backy · May 2011

Holiday. A lot better things to do on a long weekend in summer than be on... oh. Never mind!

There are many places you can take a car to have it inspected. Dealerships will do it but may charge a lot. The owner can say "no" of course, but if they do that is reason enough to pass I think.

I just did a google on "used vehicle inspection my_city_name_here" and got several links to places that do inspections.

mr_gone · June 2011

Hi all: I'm interested in a used Honda Accord EX sedan, manual transmisssion, 4 cylinder, and am wondering how significant the differences are between the 2005 and 2006 versions. I am ruling out 2003 and 2004 because--from what I can tell--they didn't have side curtain airbags, not even as an option.

I know that in going from 2005 to 2006, Honda slightly changed the engine and reworked the suspension a bit, plus the nicer tail lights (gauges, too, right?) Looking at Edmunds pricing, there seems to be about an $1,800 gap between the two. I'd be inclined to go with the 2006, but it seems very hard to find this particular combination of EX, manual, 4 cyl, 4 doors. So if I came across a 2005 priced right, it might be tempting. Any strong opinions about waiting for a 2006 to become available in that combo platter or just snapping up a 2005? Most likely would hold onto the car for several years. No other really distinguishing driving needs.

tallman1 · June 2011

I can't remember all the changes that occurred in 06 but it sure looks much better than the 05. I think you've got most of them. I was thinking that the 05 didn't have the side curtain airbags but I may be wrong.

You are correct that an EX I4 manual is rare. I own an 06 EX-L with Navi and finding one with a stick was hard to do back when they were new. I love the car and will keep it a long time, especially since Honda is dropping the sticks from the top trimlines.

So much depends on the condition of the car and how well it was maintained. You may find a lousy 06 and a great 05. Then it is kind of a no-brainer.

You may also want to consider an 07 if it isn't too much more since they are virtually identical to the 06.

Good luck in your search! Let us know how it turns out.

darrvao777 · June 2011

So I'm pretty flexible and indecisive here (1st time car buyer!)

I punched in these specifications into cars.com:
Used car
$23K
2008-2012
Acura, Honda, Infiniti, Lexus, or Toyota
4 door sedan, no hybrids, automatic transmission

And this list came out:
Honda Accord
Toyota Camry
Lexus ES 350
Infiniti G35
Lexus IS 250
Infiniti M45
Acura TL
Acura TSX

What do you guys recommend? I figured I'd ask the experts since I'm completely lacking car purchasing experience! From what I can see, it looks like the "non luxury brands" like Honda and Toyota are either available newer (2010 - 2011) at around $23K or older (2008-2009) for sub $20K

It seems like the luxury brands (Acura, Lexus, Infinity) only have 2008 selections. I am assuming this is because these cars come with a 3 yr warranty and because the 2008 ones are about to have their warranty expire, thats why they slot into this price range?

(With the exception of the TSX, the TSX does come in 2009 varieties too)

So what do you guys recommend?

My girlfriend recommended getting a 2009 Camry or Accord, that way we would still get to enjoy 1 year of warranty in case anything happened after purchasing the car and in all likelihood, we could push the price tag to <$20K

Thoughts?

Thanks again, looking forward to your replies!

backy · June 2011

It would help us if you'd tell us what you are looking for in a car--what is important to you: e.g. do you need room in back to carry adult passengers for more than cross-town trips? Is fuel economy important? Is fun-to-drive important? Do you want a powerful car, or is handling more important? etc.

If I had $23k to spend for a car right now, and had to choose from your list, I'd gravitate to the TSX and G35... 2008 for the TSX because I like that generation better than 2009-on (and it would be less expensive), and the newer the better on the G35 (I'd even get a G25 if I could find one for $23k).

darrvao777 · June 2011

Certainly!

- Backroom isn't too important to me, would like 4 doors just in case
- Good fuel economy would be great
- Fun to drive would also be great
- Handling > power I great
- I guess above all safety and reliability are the most 2 important things I'm looking for
- I personally would enjoy a powerful vehicle but I think having better fuel economy, good stability/handling for safety are more important (my girlfriend will probably be driving it >50% of the time)

plekto · June 2011

Perfect car:

2004 Lexus IS300. Find one in mint condition and drive it until the wheels fall off. It's as close to the same era 3 series as Japan ever got. Just with Japanese reliability in the mix.

If it HAS to be newer, then I recommend you also add a 2008 Cadillac CTS to the short list as one of two specific domestic exceptions. It's worlds better than anything GM has made to date and honestly, it drives better than the G37, IMO. I know the two are almost the same on paper, but the CTS seems a bit more tuned for highway driving.

The other is a 2012 Mustang - the new one with the 30mpg V6 that has 300hp. It's a blast. It has 2 doors, yeas, but it's a usable enough rear seat. Cheap, good MPG, and fun to drive. You can get one new for about your "used" price range,

If it has to be Japanese, well, it's a short short list that pretty much begins and ends with the G37 sedan (with an exception which I note below). Nothing front wheel drive will drive half as fun or well in twisties as a RWD version of the same vehicle. And Japan makes precious few RWD cars these days.

Of note as an exception, though it doesn't get good MPG, is the RX8. It fits 4 adults comfortably (2+2 configuration), and easily handles rings around most everything else out of Japan these days. It's as close to a (base) Porsche Boxster as you'll get without spending 40K+.

This is one car that you want to buy new, though, at the end of the year. The engine burns oil and absolutely MUST be run from day 1 with high zinc oil. Synthetic or low zinc oil will ruin the engine in a few years. The internal pressures are much greater than in a normal 4 stroke engine and the EPA lowered the zinc content in oils a couple of years ago - to low enough that most anything other than oil made for classic cars and racing is too low for a rotary engine.

But other than that need to care properly for it from day 1 yourself, it's a perfect choice.

http://www.truecar.com/prices-new/mazda/rx-8-pricing/2011/54B37943/
I'm in Los Angeles, so it's just under $24K for one new. YEar-end will see a drop of 2-3K more, though.

backy · June 2011

The IS might be a good choice if rear seat room is not important at all. But I wouldn't go back to 2004 if I didn't have to. Low-mileage Acura-certified 2008 TSXes can be had for well under $23k. Blast to drive and good fuel economy with the I4. In my area, you can't get a G37 for under $23k. But the G35 is a nice car also--more powerful than the IS or TSX, but not as economical either.

plekto · June 2011

The IS series is worlds better than the TSX. Remember, the TSX you'd be looking at is the last generation if you want to stay in your price range. It's basically a fancied-up Civic. Compare that to even the IS250 with a good 6 cylinder engine and RWD, and it's simply no contest. Even the new TSX, while it drives fine, is so boring that it makes me want to cry compared to a RX8, IS, Mercedes C class, a CTS, (and so on).

So what is the third best car GM ever made?
2004 was also a magic year for GM - the Holden Monaro made its way to the U.S. as the Pontiac GTO. If you get manual with it, that year only will give you:
- A 350HP LS1 Corvette engine. Same 6 speed gearbox as well.

- 29 mpg highway (25 combined is possible wit a light foot - and with 350hp, you don't need to stomp on the gas hard)
EPA city estimate: 17 mpg. EPA highway estimate: 29 mpg (original sticker).

- A 0-60 time of 5.3 seconds (!) 1/4 mile in under 14 seconds and at over 100mph. It's the real deal.

- A slalom speed of 63.4mph. A G37 does it at 66.4mph for reference - it's no straight-line boat by a long shot. The *new* TSX? 54.9mph. FWD rears its ugly head since you can't really defeat physics.

If you care even the least bit about handling, you want RWD. And, no, RWD isn't a disaster like the nannys want you to believe. They get serious snow in Germany and you don't hear news articles about Mercedes and BMWs flying off the roads in winter.

Many owners who have a GTO obsess over theirs and treat it like an instant classic, or add some tweaks and upgrades to it, so finding a cherry example is actually quite easy. Same as say, with a Porsche - the ones that are beaters are instantly obvious and the collectors are also easy to identify. You won't even pay $15K, either, which will give you a lot of extra money for upkeep and potential upgrades. (dual exhaust is the obvious first mod).

The 2005+ and all automatic models suffer 4-5mpg worse due to a 400HP engine that's tuned for raw speed versus smoothness and low-end torque. I'd get a 2004 GTO in a heartbeat. Where else will you get muscle car performance and 30mpg on the highway? Well, other than the new Mustang, that is - but the GTO has a nicer interior than the Ford. Ford somehow still can't make a good interior on most of its cars.

darrvao777 · June 2011

Wow, thanks for the helpful reply guys, keep em coming!
Awesome replies!

So I think I am leaning towards a 2008 Acura TSX or TL
with the sad, boring Accord or Camry has backup options

Of the other cars mentioned, the Infinitis (G35/37) might be a little too pricy for me in this area
Not particularly interested in driving a 2008 CTS, 2012 Mustang or 2012 RX8

That being said, the other 2 that have surged to the top of my list are the 2004 Pontiac GTO and the 2004 Lexus IS300! Definitely nice to hear all those exciting things about them and they are available at very affordable prices in my area! I'm leaning toward the GTO because I have not been able to find any IS300's with reasonable mileages on them, I've actually found a couple of GTO's with lower mileage than the TSX's or TL's I was considering! Inclined to bump the GTO/IS300 pairing above Accord/Camry at this point, I'm not sure if I can bring myself to bump them above the 2008 TSX/TL as I just have reservations about buying something so old. That being said, I certainly will test drive all these over the coming weeks.

Thanks again for all the advice and keep it rolling in, would definitely like to shop around with as much advice and recommendations as possible!

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