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What Car is Right For Me? Help Me Choose!

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Comments

  • akamrtoadakamrtoad Member Posts: 2
    OK, First off I want to thank everyone for their suggestions. It was never my intent to start a posting war. :-)

    I am only interested in a Sedan or Wagon, so SUV’s and Trucks are out of the picture. As far as another minvan, I have a 2011 Toyota sienna. I don’t need another minivan. I just want a car that I can throw all 3 kids into in a pinch (you never know when your car will break down).

    I mentioned the Camry because I know for a fact that the new one will work as I rented one and two cars seats and a booster fit. It was snug, but it worked. I have considered the Cadillac, and I really like the BMW wagons, but they take premium gas and that is just a deal breaker.

    So truly, Thank You to all of you for sharing your opinions with me. It is helping me make an informed decision and that is why I posted my question here in the first place.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If the Camry worked, have you tried cars like the Passat and the Optima? Both have roomy back seats. Optima will probably get you higher FE unless you go with the Passat TDI.
  • biker4biker4 Member Posts: 746
    Too bad the you don't have a larger budget -the kids would love the Tesla S with the rear facing back seats. :shades:
  • mr_gonemr_gone Member Posts: 50
    Hope you find what you're looking for. BTW, I looked at how the new Passat has been reviewed and I'm not sure it's going to give you the driving pleasure that I had associated with VWs in the past. Apparently, the newest model has lost some of the crispness of previous generations. So the new Fusion hybrid might be a better candidate. My impression of the Optima is that it's a very nice car but maybe not quite up to the standards that you, as a former 911 owner, might be seeking in terms of responsiveness and steering response. There's the new Accord to check out as well -- the 2008-12 generation lost some edge, but Honda apparently is trying to get it back with this newest iteration.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If you've read the reviews on the Fusion, you've noticed it has a fairly tight back seat for the class, plus quality control seems to be an issue.

    I don't see why the Optima wouldn't be worth a test drive. No 911, but one of the better and roomier mid-sized cars.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I was thinking about sedans and wagons and so on and I remembered one or two more choices that might work, though they won't get 30mpg. (nothing will, really)

    1 - As I mentioned, a Pontiac G8. You could also go for an Impala, which isn't as good, but it is pretty decent nonetheless. In 2013, GM is bringing back the G8/Holden platform in case you feel like waiting.

    2 - Any of the Big GM cars. (Buick LaCrosse/Lucerne). I could consistently get 25-27mpg highway in one. GM makes the most fuel-efficient V6 engines and the best automatic transmissions, so while the rest of the car is rather meh, the thing will drive forever.

    3 - The Ford Taurus or Flex might also work.

    The problem is that 30mpg and large is impossible since they started a HP race a decade or so ago. For instance, a 2004 Pontiac GTO got 30mpg highway. Just that one year. Then they changed it completely in 2005 and mpg dropped to 22.
  • fredbloggs1fredbloggs1 Member Posts: 4
    I'm looking for either a 2009 Chevy Malibu or a 2008/2009 Honda Accord. I must have leather seats. From what I've read, it seems that only the LTZ for the Malibu and only the EX-L for the Accord have leather seats, but I can't seem to definitively confirm that.

    Can someone confirm that all 2008 Malibu LTZ and all 2008/9 Accord EX-L's have leather seats, and that none of the others have leather seats?

    Thanks!
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    As far as the Chevy, all LTZ's have leather, but there were LT's with a leather option. It was a different leather than the LTZ. If you're looking at the 4cyl, I'd look for one with the 6-speed transmission. Limited availability during those years and typically only on the higher end models.

    Regarding the Accord, EX-L (L for leather) obviously but there are times they produce an SE model that also has leather. I'm not sure if they produced that model during '08/'09 or not.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    edited October 2012
    You might also consider a Pontiac G6, since it's basically the same car with a more upscale interior and options (like leather). Also, the Saturn Aura was based on the same platform. Both Pontiac and Saturn have terrible resale values due to the brands being gone, but the engineering and parts are the same. This can represent a lot of potential savings.

    Also, the GM W platform cars might work as well.
    * 2004–2008 Pontiac Grand Prix
    * 2005–2009 Buick LaCrosse
    * 2006–2013 Chevrolet Impala
    * 2006–2007 Chevrolet Monte Carlo

    These also tended to come with leather and more options standard.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    My mom is in the market for a new car and (as always) wants my input and assistance in the process. I'm pretty sure that she thinks I'm clairvoyant because she expects me to "know" what will appeal to her. To be honest, although I lack supernatural abilities, after spending 38 years trying to figure her out, I have a creepy ability to pick out exactly what she likes 99% of the time. But I would still welcome some outside opinions on my choice of finalists, which are as follows-

    2011-2012 CPO Nissan Altima 3.5 SR
    2013 KIA Sorento EX FWD (prefer 2.4L)
    2013 KIA Optima EX
    2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport
    2013 Hyundai Sonata Limited 2.4


    My mom is an interesting character (to say the least) and that definitely extends to her vehicle preference. Vehicle styling/appearance is at the top of her list, with reliability and pricing/value being a close second. For the first time, fuel economy is also a somewhat important factor.

    She is 58, rarely carries passengers other than my step-dad and/or an occasional grandkid (ages 2 and 6), so a 5-passenger car/SUV is fine. She drives a school bus and her route starts and ends at her driveway, so she never uses a personal vehicle to commute. Her list of 'required' features include heated, leather seats, a decent audio system, power sunroof and that's about it.

    This will be a vehicle that she keeps for 8-10 years and averages 10-12k miles per year. She currently has a 2007 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer (4.0L, RWD) that has has been nothing but trouble!!! She purchased it from my best friend when it was 16 months old with 70k miles on it (it was his company car). It now has 135k miles on it; in the last 65k miles and 4.5yrs, we've spent almost $5,500 in repairs!!! That does NOT include any regular maintenance or tires/brakes. The transmission has also started having intermittent issues and one side of the power-folding 3rd row seat is stuck in the down position and would cost $580 to repair! Pretty pathetic for a vehicle with a $36k sticker price less than six years ago.

    Needless to say, we want a reliable/durable vehicle with 100k miles of Powertrain coverage to back it up! The only 'rules' my step-dad has given me is NOTHING from GM/Ford/Chrysler and try to keep it under $30k.

    The 4-cylinder versions of the KIA and Hyundai vehicles are more than sufficient for her needs and driving style. The reason for considering the Nissan Altima 3.5 SR (which has a 3.5L V6, 270hp and only gets 27mpg highway) has nothing to do with performance....it's all about looks! The 3.5 SR has the beefy 17" alloy wheels and low-profile tires, rear spoiler and several other sporty exterior tweaks that really make it a great looking car. I prefer the looks of the 2012 model over the new 2013 Altima, plus a 2011-2012 CPO will have the standard 100k Powertrain coverage.

    Which of the five vehicles listed above would be the best fit based on the information I've given? If you had to choose one of the five to purchase for yourself, which one would it be and why?

    I look forward to your responses!
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • mr_gonemr_gone Member Posts: 50
    I don't know where you're getting your information about the Fusion. First, you realize that there's a 2013 model that is a complete redesign, don't you? And that new model has more room in the back than the previous model? And Consumer Reports rates the Fusion's reliability as above average. The only reliability issues were a few areas in the 2010 model.

    The problems Ford has had with reliability have been with its complicated MyFord system and the transmission on the new Focus.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I would go Altima out of that batch. You already said she likes the looks and honestly they're a very good car particularly with that V6. Performance to back up the good looks. The CVT can have questionable reliability but the warranty should cover you for five years anyway. Remember those warranties are from when placed in service...so 7 years/100k miles CPO on the Nissan is from when it was built. Obviously best to find one as new as possible from a date standpoint when you only drive 10k miles a year.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    CR has not rated the 2013 Fusion for reliability yet. I would expect it would pass on that until there's real world data, since it is a redesign with new powertrains.

    I've read two different reviews on the Fusion that complained about the relatively tight back seat compared to its competitors. I believe they were C/D and Motor Trend.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Since your mom is interested in fuel economy, and doesn't need the hauling ability of an SUV, I'd strike all the SUVs off the list. The Santa Fe in particular is a new model, so reliability is questionable.

    Since your mom is OK with the Altima, and also is OK with a 4 cylinder (cf. Optima EX, and Sorento and Santa fe with 2.4L), why not the new 2013 Altima 2.5? Doesn't she like how it looks? It's power is up from 2013 (2.5L) and it has exceptional fuel economy--better than the Optima EX. You said YOU don't like the looks of the 2013 Altima... but how about your mom?

    If I were her I'd drive ALL the latest mid-sized 4-cylinder cars including the Altima, Accord, Passat, Fusion, Optima, and Sonata before plopping down nearly $30k. (Personally I'd skip the Malibu, but go ahead and drive that too if she wants, it's pretty good looking.) It's fun driving the cars, and then she'll know which one she likes to DRIVE the best. Also she'll know what they look like up close and inside. But cars aren't just for looking at and pumping gas into.

    P.S. If I had to choose one on the list I'd take the Optima EX, I think it fits your mom's criteria the best of those 5 vehicles.
  • ahossa1ahossa1 Member Posts: 52
    Is there a reason u left off the 13 Honda Accord? I'd suggest a sedan cuz she drives a huge bus everyday.The Optima is a great choice but it's a above average with road noise. The 13 Fusion is a great car, European styled, and rides like a German Car. The Mytouch Ford Sync is a problem for mature folks cuz of the tiny buttons on the Sync. Now as you ask to choose 1 of the 5 listed I'd recommend Nissan Altima, great car and very reliable. I had an Altima for 10 years and few problems.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    I originally planned to include the 2013 Honda Accord on the list. I had the pleasure of spending a weekend driving a 2013 Accord Sport a few weeks ago (my bro-in-law runs the body shop at a Honda dealer and the General Manager lets him take home anything he wants). So he brought the new Accord for me and I really enjoyed it. I hated the a2008-2012 Accord, but the 2013 feels, sounds and looks like a real Honda!

    BUT my step-dad has currently has a 2006 Accord SE 4-door. He is planning to trade it in on a 2013 Accord in a few months when dealers become more willing to discount them. So that’s dad’s car.

    I personally love the new Ford Fusion, but after the experience they’ve had with her current 2007 Explorer, my step-dad will never allow a Ford vehicle in their garage again! Their experience with all three of the local Ford dealers in buying and servicing her previous 2004 Explorer and her current nightmare-from-hell 2007 Explorer further sour the idea of buying another Ford, no matter how good it actually may be! The warranty coverage isn’t

    The 2012 Altima 3.5SR has a sport look and aggressive stance that the 2013 models lack, especially the 2.5SL (and other 2.5 versions). I showed mom the photos just to put the possibility on the table and she shot down the 2013 instantly.

    The 2013 Fusion and Altima have a 3yr/36k Basic Warranty and 6yr/60k Powertrain Coverage. The CPO Nissan and new KIA/Hyundai models all have 100k of Powertrain Coverage. I have located four 2012 CPO 3.5SR models so far and all are less than 10-months in service and under 15k miles. So they have over six years and 85k miles of coverage provided by the 7yr/100k warranty form original in-service date.

    A new development today is that the budget has been reduced a bit! My step-dad was/is somehow convinced that mom’s 2007 Explorer is worth $11-12k trade-in and someone will pay that for it! So the $30k budget is actually $18k cash plus whatever the hell we can for the Explorer!? Even though it is in Very Good to Excellent physical condition inside and out, the high mileage and history as a corporate fleet vehicle (even if it was my best friend’s company car) in conjunction with it being 2WD/V6 = $8k trade-in is the best I’m expecting. Which translates to a budget of around $26k, not $30k.

    I’m sure we could sell the Explorer privately for at least $12k, but knowing that the transmission is acting wonky sometimes and a few other minor issues, I can’t sell it to an individual….at least not without telling them all the details about what has gone wrong, is going wrong and will almost certainly go wrong again…and that tends to scare off buyers off and/or kill the selling price! I’d much rather it go to the big Carmax auction far away and hope that it doesn’t end up being sold to some poor soul before it all the problems are repaired….
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    "P.S. If I had to choose one on the list I'd take the Optima EX, I think it fits your mom's criteria the best of those 5 vehicles."

    If I was choosing a car for myself from the list, it would be the 2012 Altima 3.5SR- hands down!

    But I spent some time test driving the Sonata and Santa Fe yesterday and the Optima EX today. Even though I've read all the reviews and raves about the Optima, I still wasn't prepared to be as impressed as I was by the Optima EX! It also amazed me just how differently two cars built on the same platform and sharing the same powertrain can feel. The Sonata Limited is undeniably a very good car with interior materials and design that could pass for an entry-level luxury car. But the Optima feels more like a German car- taught, firm ride without being harsh, quick reflexes, and a more no-nonsense exterior design.

    If I had to choose one least favorite thing about the Sonata, it would be the design and layout of the dashboard! Conversely, the dashboard design is one of my favorite things about the Optima. It is simpler looking with buttons and controls spaced out a bit more and in more logical arrangement. I also love the way that the center stack is canted toward the driver!

    If you're wondering why I am test driving these cars on my own first, I'm actually test driving the dealership and sales team. They will probably never know it, but it's more for their benefit than anything!

    Back in December 1994, mom and I were shopping for a new Jeep Grand Cherokee. She knew that was what she wanted, the colors, option packages, and everything else. It was just a matter of actually finding ones that met her specs then trying to get the best deal at a time when they sold Grand Cherokees as fast as they could build them!

    We found one at a dealership almost 100 miles away that was exactly what she wanted. They quoted a price on the phone that was good enough to make the drive over there worthwhile, so we went. The moment we walked in the showroom, I had a bad feeling about the place. The salesman who gave the phone quote was off, so we ended up with a sleazy, slicked-back-hair, condescending [non-permissible content removed] instead! He immediately asked why mom had came to buy a car without her husband (he had already checked the wedding ring, I suppose). Her response, verbatim, “Because I’m the one buying the car, not him!”

    We went for a test drive and he insisted that I sit in the back seat so he could demonstrate all the controls and features up front for her. A few minutes into the test drive, mom gunned it when a traffic light turned green to see how much kick it had off the line. Dude actually scolded her for doing it and said the engine wasn’t broken in and blah, blah….so she floored it and didn’t let off for a good 30 seconds- doing 80mph or so in a 45 zone to show him who was boss in that car!

    Then he actually said “You need to calm down!” to her and patted her knee with his left hand!!! She locked it down in the middle for four lanes of traffic and went carnival-freak crazy on him screaming for him to get out! Doing what any protective son would do in the situation (and being 19, hot-heated, and 6’2” 230#), I jumped out, opened the passenger door and pulled him out of the car and threw him onto the ground (or road surface, to be particular). I got back in the car and she took off like a bat out of hell going back to the dealership (leaving him a few miles away). She skidded across the lawn of the dealership and almost created a drive-thru right in the front of the showroom! She left the door open, engine running and tore off to find the sales manager…and I went to the receptionist desk and called 911!

    We didn’t wait for the cops, but I didn’t want them to come after us because they reported us for assaulting the salesman and trying to steal the car or some similar nonsense. We never heard another word about….but I learned that it’s best to pre-screen dealerships and select a suitable salesperson (I usually try to find a female or gay male salesperson if possible before some ‘go-getter’ nabs me instead)!

    It would be a far worse fate for a sleazy perv if it they pulled that crap on her today. Now there’s always a loaded firearm in that big ol’ Coach purse she lugs around….

    I couldn’t make this [non-permissible content removed] up if I tried!
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    It would be a far worse fate for a sleazy perv if it they pulled that crap on her today. Now there’s always a loaded firearm in that big ol’ Coach purse she lugs around….

    ummm... with that temper, I'm not sure that's such a good idea. :surprise:

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • linkin06linkin06 Member Posts: 1
    i'm shooting for around 16k for a civic lx 2012 and shooting for prius c two for 19k. the difference i feel like would take about 4 years of driving to make up. i liked how the civic handled. the prius handles ok, but obviously the pick up isn't as nice as the civic.

    i've never bought a car before, but i'm emergently having to because my old 92 camry died on me (it was at 230k+ and strong! for awhile...)

    anyone able to share more insight?
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Civic and Prius are sort of different cars, although about the same size.

    If you prize MPG above everything else, then the Prius is the way to go.

    If you want more of a traditional driving vehicle, with slightly less fuel efficiency, the Civic will serve you well, and for a very long time.

    That said, I've only been in a Prius once. Like you, I found it painfully slow, and not very comfortable.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • mr_gonemr_gone Member Posts: 50
    New 2013 Civic coming this month that is to address 2012 shortcomings -- announced in past couple of days by Honda. Check web stories. Also check Ford Fiesta or Focus, which are getting good reviews. New 3-cylinder engine gets great mileage with good acceleration.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Out of those two choices, Civic all day long. 2013 Civic will be much improved though...the '12 is a bit lacking in the Honda scheme of things. But if you can't wait...you can't wait.

    I'll throw out one more to look at...Hyundai Elantra. Should be priced about the same as Civic, I'd dare to say it's better, and much longer warranty.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    edited November 2012
    I drove an Elantra GLS (2012, with Popular Equipment Package) to NYC from Birmingham, Alabama back in August. Me and three friends road tripped through the App. Mntns to get there. It more than met our needs for space, and we averaged 37 MPG for the entire 2,000 mile trip. One tank topped 41 MPG, but loaded as we were, we were happy with our overall average, especially considering we drove into and out of Manhattan.

    Yes, the engine dropped to 4th gear up some of the long grades (approx 4,200 RPM at 70MPH) to keep us moving, but it was very relaxed otherwise, running low RPM quietly. The price was similar to the Civic LX, but it had more equipment and interior space.

    In comparison, the Civic I've driven was much noisier, if similar in the power department.

    I know you didn't ask about the Elantra, but give it a test drive. It is a substantial feeling car and a good value.
  • songladysonglady Member Posts: 1
    edited November 2012
    Stumbled on this forum while researching used vehicles and thought I would give it a try as you all seem so knowledgable. :)

    I am needing to replace my commuting vehicle, a 1995 Lexus 300, as it is finally getting to the point where fixing anything wrong on it would be more than the car is worth. I live just off a short rural gravel road, but it is paved highway after about 2 miles - lots of hills that can be a problem in the winter. My Lexus conquered them all like the champ he was. I drive about 50 miles per day round trip to work.

    I have literally not even looked at cars for about ten years, so all the new bells and whistles are a bit much to take in. I tend to drive cars a VERY long time, so reliability and low maintenance are important. I take reasonable care of my vehicles in terms of routine maintenance, but need a mechanic for heavy duty repairs (56 year-young lady).

    My budget is unfortunately limiting and I realize that. I have between 8-11K to spend on a good used vehicle. My basic needs are:

    Must be able to transport 4 people of middle age and above - need 4 doors, with not-too cramped back seat and legroom and not too low to climb out of.

    Open to wagons, sedans, crossovers or suvs that are not too high to get into (5'2"). (Don't like running boards)

    I like Toyotas and have had a Tercel, a Corolla, a Camry and my Lexus in the last 35 years, but I will consider most any car as they have all improved over the years in terms of reliability.

    I prefer leather or leatherette seats over cloth for durability, and I love my sunroof but I would give it up if I had to. I know where I am going at all times, so I don't need navigation, and I have never backed into anything so I don't need cameras. (Although after looking at some of the newer cars where the back windows are rapidly shrinking to the size of portholes, I can see why so many cars have backup cameras!) One cup holder per person is a luxury as far as I am concerned, and there are no children that need to be entertained with DVD's or full scale audio systems.

    I should add that aesthetically I hate the look of the newer boxy things like Scions and Souls.

    Am I asking the impossible here for the price? All suggestions are greatly appreciated.

    Forgot to add - I can drive a manual. Don't particularly want to, as it makes holding a cell phone difficult in city traffic, but it's not a deal breaker. :)
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I would certainly recommend a Camry given your history and wants/needs. It will do the job without much complaint and there are examples out there that fall into your price range. It will probably be the newer equal to your 18 year old Lexus. There are tons of rental and lease returns out there...which I would avoid. Find a one-owner that's been cared for and drive it ten years. It might be tight on the budget but I'd try to get in a 2008 or newer.
  • maxx4memaxx4me Member Posts: 1,340
    edited November 2012
    In that price range for a used vehicle that fits 4 adults, with great leg room and head room in the back, I have two contenders:

    1. Hyundai Elantra Touring. Finding one between 8-11k may be a bit tricky, but they are out there. If not the ET, then the prior model Elantra GT hatchback would be my next choice.
    2. Nissan Versa Hatchback. Much easier to find in this price range.

    Both cars offer easy entrance/exit for aging adults, great visibility, and a compliant ride. Plus, if you often carry multiple adults as passengers, both offer room in the back to store/haul their items. If you don't need storage room or the versatility of a hatch/wagon, they I agree with the previous poster that an older Camry or Accord would be my third and fourth option for you.
  • benrey23benrey23 Member Posts: 42
    I would ask your dad if he would pay 11-12k for the Explorer.lol.. Full disclosure, I am a Sales Representative. I first want to say the reason many might believe Ford,GM are less reliable is because for years they were the mass producers you will hear about more problems than you would foriegn makes. So if you look at it as a percentage Ford/GM are as reliable as any. Honda, Toyota sales have reached higher levels in the past years and what do you hear about now? Well they have recalls often as well. Now the Explorer is getting a bad wrap here. It was a corporate vehicle. I understand a friend drove it but I promise he didnt not drive it like he owned it. As a salesman I know how important a good service department is. If your is really that bad then I can not think of a good reason to buy a Ford. They have great cars but a good service department is key. I am glad mine is good. I will say I hate selling used vehicles unless it is under 18k miles and a CPO preferably. Ford has a great CPO that adds 2 years and 40k miles of warranty. Chevy has great warranty for new. Honda has great CPO program as well. Good luck. Wish you all well.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Here are my top choices:

    1: Believe it or not, you can get a 2-3 year old *non-rental* Grand Marquis for about your price range. It's big, extremely overbuilt, and parts are extremely inexpensive. Toyota breaks less often but the parts are getting hideously expensive as of late. It's big, comfy, and perfect for a 50 mile highway commute. It's as close to your old Lexus as you'll find in that price range, IMO. The fact that you want a solid and comfortable ride over amenities and frills makes you the perfect buyer for one of these, IMO.

    And there's tons of glass. You can actually see out the back. And sides. And it's not nearly as hard to park as you'd think, thanks to being rear wheel drive.

    2: A Buick Park Avenue. This is the last of GM's overbuilt large cars. It's basically a Cadillac DTS with a V6 instead of a V8. This means decent MPG on the highway but the exact same ride and quality - just different body panels for the most part. The downside is that 2005 was the last year. The up-side is an absolute mint condition one can be had for about $7K. Not bad for almost a decade newer than your Lexus.

    Also, FYI, GM builds the best automatics on the planet, with Ford 2nd.

    3: A Honda Accord with manual. Why I mention this be because the 4 cylinder with manual is exactly as fast as the 6 with automatic in actual driving. But it's literally video game simple to shift gears in. The clutch must have all of 10 lbs of spring on it and it appears to just be controlling a set of servos instead of a direct linkage. So simple anyone can learn to drive it. It's also amazingly reliable.

    4: Going even smaller, a Toyota Rav4 is great. Especially the first generation one with manual. It's quick, has 4WD (plus an actual diff lock) and is extremely fun to drive. The 2nd generation model is also quite nice.
  • markwillismarkwillis Member Posts: 7
    I am definitely torn with this one. I've been researching cars for about 4 months now while I've been working on selling my truck privately. I'm pretty close to the point where I'd be willing to just trade it in, be happy to get what I owe on it, and cut it even. Anyway, after a long 4 months of researching sedans on the Internet, pricing them out, talking to some dealers here and there, I'm still pretty torn between three sedans. The 2011/2012 Hyundai Elantra Limited, the 2012 Mazda3 i Touring, or the 2013 Dodge Dart SXT. For a good month or two I was completely sold on a Mazda3. I hadn't really considered the Hyundai Elantra at all, but I heard that Hyundai was really making a comeback and doing some good things, so I checked it out and I fell in love. Then, I discovered the brand new Dodge Dart, and I fell in love again. The exterior of the Dart is a thing of beauty, and then interior is so clean and it's one of my favorites I've seen. I've only been reading about the Dart for the past day or so, so I definitely don't claim to know everything about it. What I do know though, is I am torn. Now, one of the main things I'm looking for in my vehicle is fuel efficiency. I know the Dart with the 1.4L engine is rated 39 MPG hwy, which is up there with the Mazda3 at 40 MPG hwy, and the Elantra which is also rated at 39 MPG hwy, so in that aspect I consider all 3 of them pretty much a tie. Unless I'm missing something and one of them is rated higher than what it really gets. Another big thing for me is the exterior. I know that's personal taste and the Dart definitely wins that one for me. Interior is another must-have for me. I want the inside to loo just as good as the outside, considering it's what I'm going to be seeing the most. Next point would be how fun it is to drive. And finally, front leg and head room. I'm 6'2". The only two vehicles I've ever owned and driven on a regular basis is my old 1989 Jeep Wagoneer, and my current 2003 Dodge Ram. Big vehicles. I'm making the switch to a sedan for, well, obvious reasons. My big Ram is killing my wallet. And a midsize sedan is just out of my price range. For the most part, I've researched all of these main focus points for me pretty thoroughly. However if anyone possibly has anything to add, personal experience with any of these vehicles, anything commonly overlooked, and anything like that I would greatly appreciate reading about it. I just need that final nudge towards one of these vehicles to force me to make up my mind and dive in. Thanks guys (and gals)!
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Have you spent much time driving cars to know you're not going to go crazy making this move? With the exception of my sports cars, I absolutely hate driving a typical car after driving trucks/SUV's for the last 15+ years. I'm not going to recommend any of them but will recommend you find a rental lot and pick up any of these (the Dart may not be on the rental lots yet...but it might be) and spend a few days on your normal commute. You've probably be averaging 15mpg on a good day with the Dodge...and I will say there are quite a few 20-25mpg SUV's you might find more appealing over all. Gas mileage is a big deal...but so is your sanity if you buy something you absolutely hate after a few weeks. And the cost of getting out of a brand new car will likely be prohibitive for you since it sounds like you're stretching yoru budget pretty hard to get into this. And that's another issue I don't recommend at all. Buy a used one and keep some money in the bank (or finance less).
  • markwillismarkwillis Member Posts: 7
    I'm only 21 so I'd say I've been driving larger vehicles for 5+ years or so. I may take your advice and rent for a few days just to try it out. Or maybe see if I can find a dealer willing to let me test drive it overnight. But either way that'll have to wait for about a month, as I'm currently deployed right now. Although whenever I go home on leave I drive my mom's 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix or my fiancee's 2005 Dodge Stratus, as I have to leave my truck on the other side of the country. So, I do drive cars every now and then. It is most certainly odd driving one when I've been driving my truck for a few months, but I go back and forth so much I could get used to either one. But once I get used to being so low to the ground and not being able to see as much, I can get into driving them and enjoy the extra peppiness that comes with not driving a full-size truck. However, don't get me wrong, I still dream of getting myself a nice Ford F-150 here in 10 years or so. ;)
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    The Elantra has recently been down-rated. The 40 MPG for it turned out to be "testing error" or something. I'd skip it for now. The Dart will get EPA, and is a torque-rich motor (that's a good thing), but that 1.4L wants premium, so factor that in. I don't know how the Dart does, but I know the Mazda3 actually gets its EPA rating or better in real life. They're both pretty fun to drive.

    If you want to still maintain some cargo capacity, the Mazda3 is available as a hatchback. The Dart's got a lot more gadgets though.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited November 2012
    I haven't driven the Dart but have checked it out. I like the exterior but the interior was not as impressive. Maybe in the higher trim with leather it would be. Also the back seat was surprisingly tight for such a large car... the Elantra has more room.

    If I had to choose between these 3 I'd go with the Mazda3. Great handling, buttoned-down ride, excellent fuel economy, reliable. Who knows how reliable the Dart will be? The Elantra is good looking and roomy, and pretty economical, but not the crisp handling of the Mazda3.

    Also at least in my area it's possible to get a 2012 Mazda3 Touring sedan for about $16,500. Great deal on that car. I'd go for the hatch myself though.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    IMO, a better choice for about the same money would be to get a basic Ford Mustang. With the V6, it gets 30 highway and is quite a bit more usable than the Dart. Also, a whole lot faster as well.

    See, by the time you option out the Dart, you're pushing $18-19K, and it's not really much different than a basic V6 mustang in terms of features. Also, in terms of reliability, I'd put my money on Ford over Dodge.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Plekto, the OP is looking at compact, FWD, 4 door 4 cyl compacts with around 40 MPG. Where exactly does a 30 MPG RWD 2 door Mustang with vestigal back seats come in?
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I'd recommend a Tacoma. They're really fast and get great mpg. :P
  • mr_gonemr_gone Member Posts: 50
    There is also the basic fact that the cheapest Mustang costs close to $21,000 even with all available incentives while the Dart goes for $16,500, according to Edmunds True Market Value numbers.

    But overlooking such factors is what our man Plekto is famous for, right?
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    edited November 2012
    Actually, Truecar has a Dart at around $18K by the time you get the SXT version, which you have to TO GET AIR CONDITIONING FROM THE BUMS.

    The Base model is a total stripper that even rental companies won't want to buy as it is below their minimum equipment requirements. I mean, who actually makes you pay for air conditioning and floor mats these days? What is this, 1990?

    So you have to start with at least the SXT for $18K. Plus another $1100 for an automatic if you want that. And to add insult to it all, it's not the 40mpg highway turbo model. It gets 24/34 with the automatic, or a whopping 5mpg better than, well, a typical V6 sedan.

    $19,540 was the price I got locally via truecar including destination charge. For a Dart with just A/C and automatic. Zero other options. Add in decent paint or better sound or anything else and you just hit $20K.

    If he wants high MPG, it's $20K plus automatic, or $21K. The idea of a $16K car to run around in was left in the dust a long long time ago.

    Remember, that a base model Prius, which has all of this standard as well is $23K. And it actually DOES get 40mpg. The second you hit 20K, you're faced with alternatives that crush the econoboxes flat. 20K for a Dart vs 23K for a Prius? He will save $500 a year in fuel with the Prius, guaranteed. And have a lot less depreciation than in a Dodge.

    I keep bringing the Mustang up because it's a good vehicle and a stunning deal for the money. 300HP and 30mpg highway? That's got to be worth something in the calculation as well. Whenever I see econoboxes creeping towards 20K, I recommend it as it comes with all that stuff standard, is better built, and that 300HP engine is (IMO at least) well worth the extra thousand dollars.

    When I recommend cars, I ignore the number of doors first, since it's really an aesthetics thing and very low on most people's list of must-haves, generally. 2 vs 3 vs 4 vs 5 doors is usually a "whatever" if push comes to shove. A lot of people can manage to live with a 2 door car if it's just hauling around the occasional friend or maybe fitting a child seat back there.

    I also largely ignore MPG if the poster is asking for the impossible. 40mpg means a TDI engine or a hybrid. Anything else in real-world driving won't get better than about 30mpg combined. LOT of cars get 25 combined or so, though. Like a bog standard 4 cylinder Camry. Or 3/4 of everything GM makes aside from its trucks. Anything that does get 40mpg highway, though, is well over 20K. Every last one of them charges you a small fortune for that MPG gain, be it a hybrid or a super economy engine.

    Unless he drives 50K a year, 5mpg isn't worth having to settle for a tin can on wheels. Which is kind of what the Dart is unfortunately turning out to be. It's nice, but it's just not worth $19K.

    *****
    Now, if he wants a simple thing to get around in and needs 4 doors, for 16K or less, he might consider a Jeep Patriot. It's really a small wagon that's been lifted 3 inches. I consider it a wagon and not a SUV in any case. Jeep does as well, considering that it has a "brother" version which is the Compass. Unibody construction as well. Not a truck by any stretch of the imagination.

    That said, it does drive well. It's dirt cheap. It hauls a lot. 23/30 isn't so bad, either. So why consider one?

    http://www.truecar.com/prices-new/jeep/patriot-pricing/2012/

    $14K.

    It's the price of a Yaris for the base model. Add in a few options, air conditioning, and you're still just under $16K. And that's the OP's real price goal. The only real down-side is that you must get the manual. It's a good manual as well - easy to drive. But it will save you a fortune later on as the CVT is a hateful thing that's expensive to fix - just avoid it and get the manual. It's the least expensive new vehicle that I know of that's worth considering.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    He was looking for 40 MPG highway, which is perfectly attainable in a non-TDI, non-hybrid. Your excuses are very thin here. There's no way you can tell me a Mustang gets the same MPGs in any way as a Mazda3 or Dart.

    Then again, why am I bothering? you've made it perfectly obvious you don't listen to people.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I'll give you the AC comment...there's only a few vehicles that don't come with AC these days (Civic DX for one....) but floor mats are becoming more common as an option. In theory I would put it as a plus because I always end up with all-season mats anyway. In fact, I was just tripping over 2 sets of new OEM carpeted floor mats piled up in the garage. The catch of course is that the dealers order them on all the models so you get stuck with them anyway.

    Mustang is no doubt a nice car for the money. But you're likely going to take a 10mpg hit over an economy car and even for someone driving 15k a year, that can add up. $50/month in fuel is a lot if someone really doesn't need something like that. I'm dropping an extra $200/month on fuel driving my Pathfinder vs a car...but I don't like cars!
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    The 40mpg Dart is 21K with just the Automatic transmission added and no other options.

    The Chevy Cruse Eco is $22K

    The Prius is $23K.

    The Mazda 3 i sport which does get 40mpg (all other models are not even close to 40mpg) is $19,600. If you can find one with no other options, that is. I guess $19,600 *is* technically under $20K...

    A VW TDI is close to 25K. Ouch.

    40mpg and under $20K is almost* impossible. So I generally ignore it and look at other factors. 30 or even 35mpg highway, though, is quite easy to do on the other hand.

    * There is one and only one option legitimately under 20K. And that's the Honda Insight. It's $19,200 including delivery charge. It comes with everything standard. I don't mention it most of the time, though, as it is frankly a rather nasty car to actually drive. No power, paper thin interior that's just to look at, and hopelessly budget everywhere you look at it. Add in a nasty CVT that's brain-dead, and the angst is complete.

    For the price, considering it's a Honda and a hybrid, it's a great deal. But it's also such a let-down as well in so many ways. They tried to get good MPG out of it and they did. But they also sucked all of the goodies and soul out of it as well in order to get every save ounce of weight. To me, it feels like a 4 door wagon version of a Smart Car. It's lovely to look at but it actually makes me want a Prius more. And that kind of kills my soul a bit, just thinking about how a car actually is so austere and eco-maniac that it makes me think about a Prius.

    Who knows? The OP might fall in love with the Insight. Me? Life's too short to drive a hybrid.
  • markwillismarkwillis Member Posts: 7
    For one, in no way, shape, or form do I want a hybrid. Much less a Prius... blegh. Am I willing to sacrifice a little fuel efficiency for more power and fun factor? Definitely. I would possibly consider a Mustang if I got behind the wheel of one and got that rush from driving it, I'm sure you all know exactly what I'm talking about. Hell, what I drive now gets 12 mpg combined, so anything in the 30 range I will be perfectly happy with haha. I was considering the Dart for the extra fun factor that it might have given the engine and all the praise the 6-speed manual is getting, but from the looks of things and testimonies of people who have gotten to drive one, the Mazda3 still takes that cake. I am certain this decision will come down to a good amount of test driving and letting my heart decide from there. The only thing is I have to wait a month to return from this damn deployment, so I was at least trying to get it narrowed down to a few cars. If there's one thing I'm absolutely sure of it's that I do NOT want a stinking Prius, or ANY hybrid for that matter. I want to feel alive driving it, not feel like the engine is about to rip out if I put a little foot in it. If that means sacrificing a little fuel efficiency, so be it. I'd really rather not drop below 30 mpg hwy though, if I can help it.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    edited November 2012
    Mustang is no doubt a nice car for the money. But you're likely going to take a 10mpg hit over an economy car and even for someone driving 15k a year, that can add up.

    I usually try to compress multiple responses, but I thought a little math would be informative. Not anything personal, mind, you, but because there are so many lurkers who are obsessed with MPG.

    15K miles times 3.50 a gallon (national average is a bit lower, but this makes the math easier).

    32 mpg combined car (40mpg highway Dart) is 469 gallons.
    25 mpg combined car (30mpg highway) is 600 gallons. That's about $450 a year in extra fuel, or about $38 a month.

    Q: is it worth $38 a month to drive a car with no power, no features, and that costs a 2-3K premium over a standard car (say a Honda Fit for $17K)? I personally don't think it's (normally) good economics to chase MPG at the expense of everything else. Because a Honda Fit (as an example) is about 3K less than the 40MPG cars.

    With a combined 29mpg, that Fit vs a Dart or Mazda 3 can end up being ten years to make up the difference. (note - it's a never break even scenario with VW and some hybrids)

    Note - a Honda Fit is also a nice choice for him. The low weight actually makes it fun to toss around. I forgot about it for some strange reason. ;)
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    That depends on how many miles people do. You're assuming everyone is average. some people do under 10k. Some, like me, do over 20k per year (I do 24k actually). That makes the math work out noticeably different.
  • markwillismarkwillis Member Posts: 7
    A Honda Fit is out of the question, personally I am not a fan of that type of styling whatsoever. A Mustang honestly would be pretty nice, the fun factor would make up for what I'd be losing mpg-wise, but it's a little out of my price range. 18.5K MAX is what I can realistically afford. Mazda is having some really good sales right now, and I've gotten numerous quotes for a brand new Mazda3 i Touring for sub-17K, which I'm sure I could get even lower with USAA discounts and military discounts. This is a great deal, and depending on what else is out there by the time I get back I may jump on it. Most everyone has recommended it anyway, saying it's a lot of fun to drive while still getting very good mpg. Another car I just stumbled upon though is the new 2013 Nissan Sentra, though I can't quite decide if I'm a fan of the styling. The SV is sub-18K MSRP, so I'm sure I could cut a deal around the 17K mark, and its mpg is rated pretty much identical to the Mazda3, only not as much horsepower which would be the only concern for me. If it's not as fun to drive as the Mazda3, I will probably pass it up. All in all it's looking like it will come down to the test driving these cars.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I've driven the 2013 Sentra. If you are looking for a nice small car appliance that has no power, imprecise handling, and good fuel economy, also a nice interior for its price, you might want to check it out. Good little car to schlep from point A to point B.

    But based on what you said here I think you'll find the Mazda3 much more to your liking. It also gets very good fuel economy. But you'll actually have fun driving it.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I'd agree. Looks like the Mazda has conquered another soul with the power of Zoom Zoom. :shades:

    Nice that it gets 40 MPG highway in real life too.
  • markwillismarkwillis Member Posts: 7
    Thank you a lot for your input! I feel as if I've definitely made up my mind at this point. I can't wait to test drive a Mazda3 for myself. How does the driver's seat fare with taller drivers though? I'm 6'2". Rear leg room isn't a huge concern for me. I'm not opting for the sun roof as that would just further hinder room in the front seat.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Well, you'll have to check out the driver's seat for yourself, as not every 6'2" is the same kind of 6'2", right? :)

    Good thing rear leg room isn't important to you as that is not a bright spot for the Mazda3.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    So I ground through as much data as I could while I was waiting for an old PC I'm resurrecting as a game box to install Windows (for the second time - sigh). Three hours and still no joy vs 20 minutes and worked perfectly for Linix Mint...)

    Anyways, check this out:
    http://www.truecar.com/prices-new/chevrolet/cruze-pricing/2012/
    Leftover models are on some sort of massive discount right now.
    It's about $16K and is a far superior car to the others that we've been recommending. I just ignored it as they typically run around 20-22K. It's very solid and has enough power to get around acceptably well.
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