What Car is Right For Me? Help Me Choose!

backy · June 2013

The OP specifically said "new" otherwise I would have mentioned cars like the Golf/Jetta TDI that get excellent highway FE. But as you noted, it's above the stated price point.

qbrozen · June 2013

But given all of these cars except the Mazda3 are new since the 2011 MY

I agree, which is why I wouldn't have labeled any of them "unreliable" at this point.

nvbanker · June 2013

I love Honda design, style, ergonomics. The Civic and Accord both are very comfortable for me and nice drivers.

My 3 complaints are pretty indemic to the entire Honda line - 1) They are noisy at highway speed. Mostly in the the rear, and from the tire noise, which is transmitted up through the rear suspension. In the back seat, you can't converse comfortably, it's so noisy at 70mph. The Odyssey is the worst, because there is yet a 3rd seat.

2) The Air Conditioning is insufficient, noticeable in the southwest now. Compared to a Toyota or Ford and some GM cars, (but not all), it will not keep you cool on a hot sunny day. That's a deal breaker for me. It's mostly the lack of volume rather than temperature.

3) It's a little issue, but the Hondas steer a little too stiffly for my pleasure. Magazines love it, but I like a responsive (which it is), but easy steer.

The Noise and A/C keep me from buying one or recommending one, despite their superior looks and cabin design.
And, of course, you can't dispute their bullet-proof reliability.

My choice therefore? Toyota Camry, Ford Fusion or Mazda 3, Hyundai Elantra.

speedrazor · June 2013

Very good feedback so far.. From the messages I think most of you recommended Mazda3 i Touring, Elantra, or Civic.

I have noticed the same issues with Civic as nvbanker mentioned. I have ridden older Civics owned by couple of my friends and my wife has Accord, but it's reliability ranks very high.

I got feedback from a co-worker who owns older Mazda3 (probably 2-3 yrs). She had good review, except it doesn't do very good in snow. However, I don't think any of the small cars will do any better.

Focus is a bit pricier compared to others and it's base model is not that fun. Edmunds' True Cost To Own is highest for Focus.

igozoomzoom · June 2013

"The Air Conditioning is insufficient, noticeable in the southwest now. Compared to a Toyota or Ford and some GM cars, (but not all), it will not keep you cool on a hot sunny day. That's a deal breaker for me."

I was a hardcore Honda fan from the day I got my license and owned seven Honda/Acura vehicles in the following 20 years and never dreamed of buying anything else...until I saw and drove the 2006 Civic...and I was devastated because I hated it so much that I had no choice to consider alternatives.

The Volvo dealer had a leftover 2005 S40 they were trying to get rid of and it was discounted by $7000+ off sticker. It was white with beige cloth and didn't have a single option, which explains why it was glued to the sales floor. I was very close to signing on the dotted line when I learned that the 2004.5 Volvo S40, 2004 Mazda3 and Euro Ford Focus were built on the same platform. Engineers from all three companies developed the cars together, so it piqued my curiosity about this little Mazda with a mono-numeral name!

The moment I saw the 2006 Mazda3 s 5-door, I knew it would be my next car...and I still have it 7.5years later! Of course, I spent weeks researching the Mazda before I was comfortable taking one home. The most impressive thing was the sheer lack of complaints I found. But one issue that was mentioned more than anything else was the poor A/C performance in the Mazda3. I consider cold A/C to be an absolute necessity on any car I own. It can easily top 100 degrees in summer here in Atlanta and, as an insurance agent, I find that soliciting new business wearing a shirt soaked with sweat isn't a winning combo.

My MZ3 is Titanium Gray with Black cloth interior. I bought it in 12/2005 and when things got really hot in July/August of 2006, it took 15-20 minutes for the A/C to cool the interior and on the hottest days, the air from the vents was between kinda cool and lukewarm. I changed jobs in late 2006 and the buildinng had covered garage parking. At my previous job, I parked in the middle of an open parking lot, not a hint of shade in any direction and fully exposed to sun all day. I quickly discovered that my A/C always performed adequately if the car hadn't been parked out in the open all day.

I finally realized the true source of the A/C problem. Over 80% of 2004-2006 Mazda3 sedans and hatchbacks had BLACK interior! On a 98 degree summer day, I checked the temp inside the car after sitting all day and it was over 120 degrees inside!!! The next day, I parked in my garage and it was 97 degrees outside. My car was a tolerable 83 degrees without the sun baking it all day....

Mazda still beefed up the A/C system a few months into production of the 2006 models to compensate, but I simply chose better places to park and never had another A/C complaint!

suydam · June 2013

Pretty much all compacts are noisier than midsize. I think that's a matter of driver preference as to which ones bug you the least. It's not like any of them will be whisper quiet. I never had any AC problems with any car EXCEPT the ones with black interior, so I try and avoid them. I really like steering on the Honda and Mazda, haven't driven an Elantra. Just my 2 cents. Let us know what you decide.

speedrazor · June 2013

I loved your story. I am leaning towards Mazda 3. Thanks for your tip on black interior. I will make sure I avoid it because I have to park in open parking space.

benjaminh · June 2013

nvbanker: Have you done a test drive in the new 2013 Accord or new 2013 Civic?

You're right that before this model year Hondas have been noisy. But amazingly, 20 years of complaints about this finally got through to Honda.

Result: the 2013 Accord and Civic are much quieter.

My 2013 Accord is much quieter than my 2008 Accord.

nvbanker · June 2013

Have you done a test drive in the new 2013 Accord or new 2013 Civic?

I have not - and truly hope you are correct. Now, please tell me they learned how to make an A/C blow, and I'll put it back on my list.

imidazol97 · June 2013

>But amazingly, 20 years of complaints about this finally got through to Honda.

Gee, only took 20 years.

nvbanker · June 2013

I agree, a black interior is a bigger challenge to cool, and tinted windows helps as well. Personally, I won't buy an all black interior for that - and other reasons (can't see inside them well).

Having said that: I have extensive real-world 115 degree Las Vegas experience with virtually all makes and models available today. There are few Fords with weak air (Town Car and Fusion are 2), no Toyotas that I have ever found without excellent A/C, and I haven't found a Honda yet with stellar air. One shouldn't have to park in the shade to be cool. A good system should recover reasonable soon regardless. A Ford Explorer will blow Ice Cubes out anytime, if fully charged, as will any Toyota.

Lots of diversity of opinion exists in this topic, because, unlike me, most people have limited experience with multiple cars and makes, unless they rent a lot. A lot also just aren't used to a system that is extraordinary, and think marginal is as good as it gets on a really hot day.

Ok, I have beat this to death. Just saying, IMO, if you live below the snow belt, check out the air for volume and chill before you buy, black inside or not.

(am I the only one who has noticed that since about....oh....2000, the ONLY interior colors offered are various stages of Black to Gray, and Beige? What happened to the old Blue, Red & Green interiors???)

suydam · June 2013

>what happened to Blue, Red, and Green interiors?>
They died the hideous deaths they deserved?

I remember my sons '88 red velour interior on a LeSabre. Wow, that was horrible.

speedrazor · June 2013

I have narrowed my choices to Prius C 2, Mazda 3 i Touring, or Elantra..

I'll be test driving soon

Kirstie_H · June 2013

They staged a walkout at the same time as sculptured carpet and olive green & gold refrigerators, and in the interest of good taste, no one apologized and invited them back.

igozoomzoom · June 2013

Actually, Harvest Gold and Avacado Green (thank God) went out of fashion by the late 70s. They were replaced by 'Country Blue', Seafoam Green, Peach and Mauve. (Excuse me for a moment until I stop dry heaving)

My mom's '86 Cutlass Supreme was a great looking car for the day. It was Medium (Battleship) Gray, no vinyl top, chrome rallye wheels similar to the ones on the 442 and raised white letter tires. Then you opened the door and everything was blood red- it was awful.

But Honda had an interior color they called "Red-Brown" that actually looked nice. It was used in the late 80s Accord LXi and some '90-'93 Accord LX/EX models. I also had a '92 Accord EX that was Frost White with Blue interior....it looked like a smurf had exploded inside the car, but I actually got used to it.

Now it's just Black, Gray and Beige or some variation of those on the vast majority of cars. I currently have Black interior and won't even make that mistake again. I live in Atlanta, on summer days when it hits 95 degrees outside, my car is over 120 after sitting parked for a few hours. NOT fun!

smelterjones · June 2013

Hey pals, I am currently debating between getting a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid from a private party or a 2008 Prius from a dealer. Here are the stats:

2003 Civic:
Private Party
$6200
127,000 miles
Brand new IMA battery (saw the receipt for it, just replaced last week)
Warranty has expired
I inspected the car myself, tires looked near-new, car was very clean, no discernible rust. Everything looked fine under the hood, but I don't know much about cars so I'd need to have a mechanic look at it.

2008 Prius:
Certified honda dealership
105,000 miles
Original battery
Five more years/45,000 miles left on warranty
Car was incredibly clean, looked near-new. Bitchin red paint

So obviously the Honda Civic is only worth the price because it has a new battery, but will that battery last a long time? I believe the battery that just crapped out was the original so that's ten years, but will the rest of the car even last that long? With the Prius I will be paying a lot more monthly, but I have more peace of mind and I don't have to waste money having a mechanic look at it. I'm gonna be taking out a loan to pay for most of either one, so is the Prius worth the bigger payments/longer loan term? Thanks guys!

evolk1 · June 2013

First, let me say ahead of time, thank you for all input

I've driven a '97 Ford Crown Vic for the last 8 years and it's been great. But it's got maybe a couple weeks left as the rust has made it borderline dangerous. I'm big (6'2", 250lbs), so getting in and out of a Camry, or similar is really a hassle. Here are my questions:

-Domestic or Foreign? I call on all sorts of people at their houses...city people, rural people...is having a foreign car that offensive to some people anymore?

-I can't afford new.

-Is Enterprise Car Sales a good source to buy from?

-For some reason, I've always had, since riding in my friends 2002 Avalon, an infatuation / jealousy of a Toyota Avalon. Roomy, pretty good mileage, etc.,....

-How are they for reliability?

-Also test drove for a day, a Chrysler 300 C back in 1994, BEFORE they were released, and absolutely love that car. We've also rented from Enterprise Chrysler Town & Country vans for our Spring Break trips to Florida from here in Indiana...and loved them...but was that most likely because they were all too 'new' and didn't have enough miles on them to show the flaws?

-I can spend $3,000-$12,000 or so, maybe up to $15,000. However, I don't have good credit (just about 10 pts below 'average' on the FICO score, but our $150,000 house is paid off,s o I guess I could tap into that with a HELOC)...I've never had to purchase a car...always had company cars or bought the CV from family....for $3,000 (his book value) versus the blue book value at the time of $11,800 ...an awesome deal.

-Even though I'm experienced with investments, and even worked for a fleet leasing company for a year as a salesman, I'm intimidated by going to my credit union or local independent car leasing company in the neighborhood.

-Finally, lease or own? As it is used for work, I think leasing is the best option, and if I do a lease, I'd like to keep payments reasonable. However, I am in a commission only business, so the income flow can be feast or famine.

I know, a LOT to digest here...which is why I'm overwhelmed I think. My CV is completely rusted out on the underside, so much so that my mechanic told me he HOPES the car makes it to the end of the month before the front end collapses and would really rather I not drive it at all, but certainly not on the interstate. My rule right now is to do as much of the sales call on the phone as possible, and only drive the CV to go out to get signatures on deals...direct revenue generating. I sell health insurance, life insurance, investment management, etc.,....

-Thanks ahead of time for all input. Help!

suydam · June 2013

Where to start. First off, of the repairs likely needed for an older car, a battery is the least of your concerns. There are so many much more expensive parts that will need replacing, like, for example, Tires, struts, and coils. Second, $6200 seems excessive for a Civic with that age and mileage. Check used car pricing for your area on Edmunds and Kbb. Finally, have ANY vehicle, even a certified one, checked out by an independent mechanic first. These are both very reliable cars but you should still get them checked. We bought a certified car awhile back that needed new tires. Not bald, so passed the inspection, but definitely worn.

You don't say the price they are asking for the Prius. That could be a good bet because it will definitely be great on fuel economy. But check out its typical used prices too. Did you drive both of them? I imagine the Prius will not sit on the lot very long.

suydam · June 2013

What about an older large Buick, LeSabre or Lucerne? You're used to a Crown Vic, you will fit in them, they are cheap and cheap to repair. Generally reliable too.

sebring95 · June 2013

-Foreign vs domestic really depends on location. Most any metro area nobody will ever say a word. Out in the boonies, particularly midwest....someone might hold it against you. I used to do a lot of consulting work for companies that were GM suppliers...and I always had a GM vehicle available for when calling on them. It was just common courtesy in my book for clients that made up a big part of my income at the time.

-Avalon is a pretty good car. Drives as good/better than a CV and very reliable.

-If an Avalon is a reliable car...a 300C is very close to the opposite. I see the attraction (big, rwd, comfortable) but I'd take another CV before a 300C if I was going to be piling the miles on.

-Reliable transportation you can keep for awhile...I think you can get into something decent for $12k-$15k. I wouldn't go much under $10k and expect much.

-Leasing is rarely a good financial decision EVEN if you can deduct the payments. I can make the numbers work on a $40k vehicle where you invest the cash savings....but otherwise it rarely works out to your advantage. You can buy a $1,000 car and write-off $0.56/mile for tax purposes....and that generally is the way to go on sub $25k vehicles.

Most of the newer Camrys are also pretty roomy...they've gotten bigger and bigger. I had to spend some time in a Lincoln Towncar recently and I wasn't really impressed with the front seat comfort. I'm about 6'2" as well but not as horizontally challenged. I find most any SUV to be far more comfortable than a sedan. Also check out 2010+ Taurus.

thegraduate · June 2013

Where to start. First off, of the repairs likely needed for an older car, a battery is the least of your concerns.

Not on a Hybrid, where battery packs can cost thousands of dollars.

thegraduate · June 2013

I find most any SUV to be far more comfortable than a sedan. Also check out 2010+ Taurus.

I'd personally look at a 2008-2009 Taurus or Sable. You can get them CHEAP (since they are the old body style), but actually they have more room and the same powertrain than the 2010 Taurus. Most have Sync hands-free, etc.

This car has, by far, the biggest interior of any sedan I've ever been in. You should be able to score a very well-equipped Taurus with under 50,000 miles for $11k-13k depending on equipment. For the record, I'm a big guy (6'5" 210) and like the car as well. The only thing I'd count against it is the lack of a telescoping wheel on the 2008 model my parents have.

Kirstie_H · June 2013

Also, probably worth checking our Civic Hybrid IMA Battery Problems discussion. IIRC, replacing the IMA battery has caused fuel consumption issues for some owners. Not sure, as i'm going off memory, but worth checking out.

Kirstie_H · June 2013

I also had a '92 Accord EX that was Frost White with Blue interior....it looked like a smurf had exploded inside the car,

Made me giggle out loud.

Couldn't remember the exact timing of in-/out-of-fashion colors... my youth is a blur of harvest gold, olive green, peach, and teal-is-the-new-black.

suydam · June 2013

True, but the Prius battery has a great record. I didn't know Hondas made hybrids that far back!

evolk1 · June 2013

...or was that just a crossover from the previous Taurus to the new Taurus?

thegraduate · June 2013

Their first hybrid was the Insight, in the late 1990s. They debuted a Civic Hybrid in 2003.

Battery replacement isn't about whether or not it's faulty, it's about the wear. Just like your cell phone battery eventually won't hold a charge for as long as it once did, hybrid battery packs also deteriorate over time.

thegraduate · June 2013

See my post (3327) about it. Good cars, decent tech, plenty roomy. Better mileage than a midsize SUV as well. The Taurus involve a good bit more than a name change, although the look wasn't drastically different. They upgraded the engine to the same basic 3.5L still used in the Taurus, a big change from the 3.0L offered in the 500 (60 more horsepower). The Taurus also offered Sync, and improved interior trim.

sebring95 · June 2013

The 500 and the '08/'09 Taurus are similar (pretty sure) the same. Just a name change. The '10 is a totally different vehicle and much improved in my book, but I'm sure the 500/Taurus are quite a bit cheaper.

suydam · June 2013

True, but one has been replaced and the Prius is only 5 years old. They have an excellent long-term record. My point was that the battery isn't the only thing to look at in a used car, even a hybrid.

Kirstie_H · June 2013

A reporter would like to speak to a car buyer who refused to buy a vehicle because premium fuel was required/recommended by the manufacturer. If you did not purchase a car after discovering premium fuel was required/recommended, and instead purchased a car that requires regular fuel, send your daytime contact information to pr@edmunds.com by Friday, June 14, 2013 at 10 a.m. PT/1 p.m. ET.

backy · June 2013

I just went through the process of choosing a new car (i.e. a used car that's new for me). I thought I'd post some tips from what I learned.

The last time I actively shopped for a car was April 2010. Then, I was aiming to lease a good new car for as little per month and out of pocket as I could. And after scouring ads for several days, sending emails and making phone calls, and doing some hard negotiating, I found what I thought was a good deal: $179/month with only first payment up front for a 2010 Sentra 2.0S.

Now that car is nearly off lease, and I will buy it out and let my daughter use it through college (it's only $11k; where else can you find a pristine 2010 Sentra with only 26k miles for $11k?). So I needed a car for me. I was going to get a new car, a small hatch like a Mazda3i or Focus SE or Elantra GT, but then I needed to replace the roof on my house. :-( So I reset my sights on a good, inexpensive used car.

What I wanted was something for no more than about $7k before TT&L, a smallish hatchback with a stick, fun to drive, good fuel economy, power package, cruise, remote entry, and ABS. Then I checked with my bank, and in order to get their 2.75% financing for up to 5 years, I needed to get a 2003+ MY with less than 150k miles.

With those parameters in mind, I started my search, focusing on cars like the Elantra GT/GLS hatch and Mazda3 hatch. I soon discovered that I'd need to broaden my search, as there were few of those cars available, let alone that met my criteria. So my new focus group was: 2003-7 Accord, 2003+ Civic (EX for 2003-5 for the ABS), 2003+ Elantra, 2006 Accent (ABS standard), 2004+ Mazda3, 2003+ Mazda6. (Note: please do not reply with "You should have also looked at Car-X and SUV-Y"; I like what I like. You need to choose something YOU will like.)

Then I spent several frustrating but enlightening days searching for cars, on Saturdays and weekdays "in my spare time". A few things I learned:

* There are very few really good, inexpensive cars out there. By "good", I mean something worth a dealer's retail price (I decided to shop only from dealers, although I did check out some private party ads--didn't see anything to make me take a look.)
* Those few really good, inexpensive cars get sold VERY quickly. How quickly? Several times I saw a "new" online ad for a car; I immediately contacted the dealer via IM chat or phone--and the car was already sold or had a pending contract. So you have to act quickly if you see a car you like.
* The market is so strong, some dealers think they can publish an ad the moment they get the car in trade. Meaning it hasn't been cleaned up, detailed, fixed etc. So you go to drive the car, and it's dirty, beat up (at full retail price for "Excellent" condition!), stuff doesn't work or rattles around (e.g. bad front suspension on a Mazda3 that otherwise was a nice car). Some dealers, however, take care to properly prep a car and fix it up before offering it for sale. I was lucky to find a car at one of those dealers.
* Be ready to stretch your criteria. I had to stretch mine quite a bit... started considering non-hatchbacks, automatics, more than 150k miles, etc.
* Build a relationship with your lender and they'll help you. I've done business with the bank where I got financing for my car for several years--saving account, several car loans. They know me, and know I'm a dependable customer. So when I found a car outside their underwriting guidelines, they still gave me the preferred interest rate anyway.

So, after many days of frustration, I decided late Monday afternoon to check the online ads one more time... even though I had already done it a couple hours before. I saw a new ad, for a 2005 Mazda6i Sport hatchback, no photos (ad was really new), 159k miles, automatic, for $4,880. I figured, how great could this car be for less than $5k, but it was for a car I really liked, the rare Mazda6i Sport hatch, and it had ABS, 6 airbags, etc. So I immediately called the dealer and talked to a sales rep. Yes, the car was still there; it was still being detailed but otherwise ready to go. Could I come by in an hour (after dinner) and drive it? Sure. So I ran over there (Infiniti dealership a few miles away) and was introduced to one of the sharpest 2005-anything I've ever seen. Almost perfect inside and out ("traded by a lady" I was told). Biggest flaw was a hole in the floor mat under the gas pedal (high heels?). Took it for a drive. Drove great, especially for a car with 159k miles. Dealer had given the car a complete check-out (I saw the report) and put in new brakes, oil change, replaced a few bulbs, new Infiniti wipers etc. No leaks. Fresh 17" Michelins. Saw the Carfax, which indicated regular maintenance at local dealerships. Rest of Carfax was clean.

I really wanted this car!

Sat down with the sales guy to negotiate. Showed him the Black Book price (a little under their asking price, but Black Book was for "Clean"--this was more than "Clean" and I knew it). After a bit the sales rep interrupted me, politely, and said, "This car is only $4900. That's the price. If you want to buy one of those $60,000 Infinitis, I'll be glad to haggle with you". OK. I knew it was a good price.

Left my deposit (on CC), next morning went to my bank to arrange financing, got a check for all but a few hundred $ of the total at 2.75% for 4 years, and went back to the dealership to pick up the car. Sales rep said it would be a few minutes, they were still prepping the car. Holy c*** I thought, the car looked great last night! What else are they doing to it?? When I got to the car, it sparkled. Now I just need a new set of mats!

nvbanker · June 2013

It's hard to lease a used car. Not impossible if the car is still very new, but still hard. Don't recommend it if you drive much either.

nvbanker · June 2013

No, you need to have your head examined. You bought your old Sentra for $11 to give to a child, and are buying a 4 yr older unknown car worth half as much for yourself? Why does our generation feel obligated to sacrifice more for our kids so that they never experience sacrifice for themselves? I did it too, am still paying for it with 2 spoiled adult kids, 4 spoiled Grandkids, one of whom is pregnant at age 13 with my first great grandchild. I should have made them buy their own cars like I did.

backy · June 2013

Why does our generation feel obligated to sacrifice more for our kids so that they never experience sacrifice for themselves?

Why do you care how I choose to spend my money? :confuse:

I am blessed to have the financial means to help my 3 kids get through college without debt, and with what will be by graduation an old car. After that, I've let them know they're on their own financially... don't expect anything more from dad and mom (well, probably will need to ante up some for my daughter's wedding), and don't expect any inheritance because we plan to spend it all or give it to worthy causes before we go.

My entire college at a private university cost $10,000. Now $10,000 will hardly pay for one semester at the state university my middle child is going to. When he's not in school (including summer classes), he works two jobs. He works part time during school, although he's taking a heavy load of classes to graduate in 4 years instead of the 5 years that is normally required for his major. I'm glad to be able to help him out... as I was glad to help his older brother, who has been 100% on his own financially since he graduated. And as I'll be glad to help my daughter.

And BTW... I love driving that 2005 Mazda6i Sport. It's a heckofa lot better looking than the Sentra. Handles great. Flexibility of a hatchback. But it has 160k miles on it. I'd rather have my daughter drive the more reliable car, one with better FE to stretch her gas money more (she works, but doesn't make quite as much as I do), one that's easier to park. A car that will last her through college and beyond. It's my money, and I can do what I want with it.

FWIW, the Sentra is mine until my daughter graduates from college... then I'll give her the title as her graduation gift. The car will be 8-9 years old then. Until then, it's my car and if she wants to use it she does so under the rules my wife and I set for her.

nvbanker · June 2013

You put your story out there. I assumed you were looking for feedback.

backy · June 2013

This is a discussion about choosing a car, not about your regret over how you spoiled your kids.

thegraduate · June 2013

(it's only $11k; where else can you find a pristine 2010 Sentra with only 26k miles for $11k?).

Just because I'm that curious, I did find that you can in-fact buy a 2010 Sentra with less than 40,000 miles for under $12,000, retail. This is before dickering. However, there's a lot of comfort in a car that you drove and maintained as opposed to wondering who might've abused a used car.

http://www.getauto.com/2010/nissan/sentra/sedan/new-york/grand-island/2010-nissa- - n-sentra-details_40641732

backy · June 2013

New York, eh? Not too bad, only about 1000 miles away from me.

I just did a search within 500 miles and found one 2010 Sentra for sale under $12,000, a base model with CVT with 29k miles, for only $10.7k. So if I'd like to step down to a base model instead of an S, get a car with more miles on it, and have an uncertain usage and service history, plus go all the way to Chicago (800 mile round trip) to get the car, I could save a few hundred bucks.

Or I could drive 6 miles to my local Nissan dealer, give them a check, and drive away. I think I'll take that route.

thegraduate · June 2013

Or I could drive 6 miles to my local Nissan dealer, give them a check, and drive away. I think I'll take that route.

Agree completely.

nvbanker · June 2013

Backy's Sentra sells for about $9,700 at the Manheim auctions nationwide every day. If you turn your leased car back in to the dealer at lease end under or at miles, they in turn give them back to the lease holder, who normally puts them in the auction. They are betting they can get the residual balance out of them at auction. Roll of the dice, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. They can set a floor price of what the minimum is they'll take for the car, but also with that, risk not selling it and being stuck with it. But they will always get that residual back from the owner if he/she is willing to buy it at the end of the lease for the carefully projected residual value. However, that's not usually a good investment.

Understanding that there is value in you being the only prior owner, you have to decide if that's worth $3000 to you (in this particular example). If you know a wholesaler (as I do), they can buy the same car back for you at the auction for that $3,000 less (minus their fee, if they're not your friend). I do that fairly often for friends - buy their car back from the auction for them. They just lose possession for about a month while the car cycles through the snake.

With this access, I never buy my car out of my lease - I let the lease holder take that loss. And that's what the dealers do as well, when they buy your car for their lot. No smart dealer every buys a lease return directly from the lease holder - they buy it later from the auction if they want it. The 2 primary sources for a used car lot are trade ins they like and keep, or auction cars, ie; rental returns, lease returns, repos & other dealer cars they can't sell, and put through to "blow them out", as the vernacular is.

backy · June 2013

I don't know a wholesaler. I would have no idea how to go about arranging to have a wholesaler locate my car at an auction, buy it, and sell it back to me, and ensure I'm the one who ends up with it.

The way I look at it, there's nothing out there in a comparable used car for this kind of money... except at auctions of course. I don't shop at auctions. Good for you that you have that insider info. So if I don't buy this car for $11k, what will I get? Something with a lot more more miles, or older? No way to tell how it was driven? No, thanks.

P.S. In this example, we are talking a max of $1,300, assuming my car would go for $9,700 at an auction. Not $3,000 difference. Also, if I don't buy the car at end of lease, I owe a termination fee. So it's really less than a $1,300 difference. Plus there's that auction fee you mentioned--how much is that? Also, when a car is purchased at an auction, is sales tax paid on it? How would this transaction work? Would there actually be two transfers of ownership here--auction to my agent, then agent to me? If so, there would be two rounds of sales tax paid.

By going to the dealer, I keep the car in my family all the time, I ensure I get to own it (slip ups can happen at an auction, no?) at a certain price.

And I am not so sure the dealer wouldn't keep a car that is 13,000 miles under the normal mileage for this term lease and in pristine condition to sell themselves.

nvbanker · June 2013

Also, when a car is purchased at an auction, is sales tax paid on it? How would this transaction work? Would there actually be two transfers of ownership here--auction to my agent, then agent to me? If so, there would be two rounds of sales tax paid.

No. The end buyer pays the tax, only once.

By going to the dealer, I keep the car in my family all the time, I ensure I get to own it (slip ups can happen at an auction, no?) at a certain price.

"slip ups" can happen anywhere, anytime.

And I am not so sure the dealer wouldn't keep a car that is 13,000 miles under the normal mileage for this term lease and in pristine condition to sell themselves.

They won't, if they can get it for much less at the auction and then sell it for more profit. Be sure, I am one. Well, there are idiot dealers I suppose. But doing as you suggest, they won't be in business for long.

seven_ups · June 2013

Ah, the color palettes of the Seventies.

My first chariot was a '73 Mercury Cougar 351, in "Ginger Brown" with a tan interior. Bought it in my senior year in high school in 1983 for the staggering sum of $500.

Those were the days indeed.

backy · June 2013

So when a dealer advertises a used car as "we took this in as a trade on a new car" (I see that a lot in ads), they're lying? And when I saw a 2007 Rabbit I traded in on another car for sale by the same dealership a couple of days later... they were able to turn that around through the auction process that fast? Or maybe this was just one of those "idiot" dealers, who's been in business for only... a couple of decades, in this case.

I learn something new every day!

"slip ups" can happen anywhere, anytime.

Thanks for validating my strategy to buy the car from the dealer, to ensure I end up with it.

gene103 · June 2013

I think you may be confusing a trade-in with a lease turn-in. When you traded in your Rabbit, the dealer would either put it on his lot (as he did in your case) or send it to auction if it didn't fit his dealership, such as if you traded in the Rabbit to buy a Mercedes. A lease turn-in is different. nybanker is saying that rather than pay the residual to the leasing company to buy the car, chances are he could acquire the same model at auctiion for a lower price should he want that model of car on his lot. A perfect example is my 98 A6. It had a 63% residual but although I turned it in with over 10K miles remaining, the dealer sent it back to the leasing company because they were selling for only about 55% of original MSRP. He had plenty of 98's on his lot, but he acquired them at auction or thru trade-ins.

backy · June 2013

Those luxury cars don't hold their value very well, do they.

OK, I love a good deal. Give me the name and contact info for someone in the Twin Cities who will guarantee in writing they can buy my 2010 Sentra from auction for no more than $9,700 and get it back in my hands within a month, also guarantee my car will actually go to auction, and I'll gladly turn it in next month vs. buying it from NMAC.

stever · June 2013

A reporter would like to speak to a recent buyer of a car from a manufacturer that is widely considered "American"--e.g. Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Chrysler, Cadillac-- who has not previously owned an "American" car. If this is you, please send your daytime contact info to pr@edmunds.com no later than Monday, July 1, 2013 no later than noon Pacific.

wxguy23 · June 2013

I've been offered a fleet 2010 Equinox LS from a major well respected company with 74,000 miles for 11,500. No problems, well maintained by strict maintenance guidelines. They have their own shop as well.

This was driven by sales guys. Right now they have around 20 for sale as they just bought 2013s.

Currently I have a 2009 Camry SE loaded with radio, sunroof, wheels, tint....etc with 69,000 miles. I've had it for 8 months, and its just okay. More stuff than I need and I'm tired of the ground effects.

I'll sell the Camry for $13,000...I hope, and the equinox prices at $16,00, but I'm getting it at $11,500 as part of employee plan.

Camry is the best car ever I'm always told...I could use the extra space, but am I an idiot for considering this "trade"?

suydam · June 2013

>Camry is the best car ever I'm always told...I could use the extra space, but am I an idiot for considering this "trade"?>

Only you can tell. Does fuel economy matter to you? What have the reliability stats been for the Equinox? A 09 for a 10 doesn't sound like much of a bargain repair wise. But for you comfort may trump all these considerations.

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