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I've saved up about 2,500 for my first car, and I've been researching and browsing used car possibilities over the last few weeks.
I'm twenty-four, licensed, from NYC.
I wanted to ask for any recommendations and/or feedback for the list of cars I've come up with for possible purchase. I am concerned, for better or for worse with the following order: mpg, number of total miles, safety ratings, handling, storage space, etc.
(I've seen some of the models below in my price range).
I am also looking to criss-cross the country with this car.
Options:
Honda
- 1984 Civic 1500S HB
- 1986-1987 CRX HF
- 1992 Civic Hatchback VX
- 1993 Civic Hatchback VX
- 1994 Civic Hatchback VX
- 1995 Civic Hatchback VX
- 1987 Honda: Coupe HF 4 Cyl 52/57
- 1995 VX Hatchback
Geo Metro
- 1994 XFI
VW
- 1980s RAbbit
Suzuki
- SA310
- 1989 Swift
- Forsa
Chevrolet
- 2000 Metro
- 1988 Sprint Metro
- Spring ER
Ford
- 1990 Ford Festiva
Nissan
- 1983 Nissa Sentra (Datsun)
I'd love to hear from people who own or have owned these cars, and could tell me from personal experience what they think of the model they drove.
Many, Many Thanks!
Lots of rear legroom. With the seats folded, I can put in my bicycle or our big dogs. There is enough room for us to take a trip. Acceleration is quite adequate. The CVT is smooth. Visibility is as good as any car I've had. The rear view monitor works well while backing. The controls are intuitive and easy to use, meaning I can reach the dials while keeping my eyes on the road and adjust by feel. It is quiet and acts predictably. The only complaint that my wife has is the lack of an armrest on the passenger side.
It came with low rolling resistance tires. I wonder if getting better tires will improve handling, but at the expense of mileage. So I am no longer waiting for the 2014 Kia Soul & Forte 5-door.
For my retirement next year, now I have a new car, a new horse and a new saddle. I gave one bicycle away. So now I only have five. What else?
Starting sometime in latter 2016, my quest will begin!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Civic
Corolla
Buick LeSabre or Century (Le Sabre is big but is very reliable and cheap to repair). My son still has his '98 Le Sabre with over 160,000 miles now.
Sentra
Mazda Protege
These will all have a lot of miles. Be sure to get any vehicle checked out by a mechanic before you buy.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
1) Gas pedal placement. Some cars are easier to drive for me because the gas pedal seems to be closer to the floor and is easier to reach. On some cars, especially larger cars, in order to better control the gas pedal, I have to essentially drive with my heel in the air. I cannot pivot my foot with my heel on the floor. This is tiring on longer drives in heavy traffic when using cruise-control is not practical.
2) Controls are too spread out so that I cannot reach them unless I take my eyes off the road and look at the dash.
3) Seat bottom size. Especially in larger cars, the seat bottom is too long so I essentially have to put a cushion behind my back so I can bend my leg at the knee to reach the pedals.
4) Driver seat too low. This is especially true of larger Fords and Chevrolets. It is hard to see the road over the hood.
5) Tailgate height. On larger SUVs, the tailgate opens too high that I cannot reach the edge to close them.
So the manufacturers essentially shunted me toward their compacts and subcompacts.
Start by telling us the make/model of the car?
In terms of the model, the LX for 2013 has a lot of things that used to be on only the higher end models—like alloy wheels, bluetooth, advanced direct injected engine, etc. This model is a great deal. My parents have one and they love it.
EX adds smart entry among other features, which is really cool. You don't get your key out of your pocket. You just approach your car, it knows it's you, and it unlocks the door. You press a red ignition button to start the car. The EX features are worth it in my opinion. But if you want to save $3000, the LX is still a great car.
I'd take a 2013 LX over a 2012 EXL.
The new model gets about 3-5 more mpg, and gets to 60 about a second faster.
Carwoo.com
You put in the exact model and color you want, and get offers from dealers within 50 mi or so. You can negotiate. You should be able to get at least $2500 off any model of 2013 Accord. They are making a lot of them, and so if you closest dealer doesn't want to deal, move to one that really wants your biz.
EX CVT lists for $25,405+790 destination
LX CVT lists for $22,480+790
I'd say the Moonroof is worth about a thousand, the upgraded wheels and tires are worth maybe 600, the smart entry/push button start is worth maybe 800, the lane-watch 800, and the other stuff maybe a 600 more. So it seems worth the $3000 difference, but none of this stuff is absolutely essential if you want or need to save some money.
The Geo Metro, ANY Volkswagens, and the Chevrolets.
What are your driving conditions to get 22?
1 - Put that $2500 down on something better and make payments. Unless you have garbage credit, that's at least a $5-$10K car. That gives you real options. $2500 will get you a bucket of problems and nothing good. In fact, if you have $2500 and that's it, you need to be looking at old semi-classic or classic cars, hopefully something that is pre-smog so that it's screwdriver and a wrench simple to fix. Modern cars since about 1990 are simply too full of electronics and sensors and other idiocy to be good past about 15 years. One throttle position sensor goes out and it's $250 to fix. Then there's tires, a possible transmission, things like water pumps, and so on. A 15-20 year old vehicle is penny wise and pound foolish as the adage goes.
Classic cars are the only exception to this rule.
2 - Your best bet will be cars that are over-built and have image or dealership problems. Anything by Pontiac comes to mind immediately because the brand is gone. There's nothing wrong with the Grand Prix, for instance. It just isn't new or exciting and all of that. So you can find them for almost nothing. Reliability is fine if you get one with the 3.8L engine, which was a mainstay of the GM fleet.
Buick, Ford, and other domestics also are good bets. Don't be afraid of a rental car, either, if it's in good shape and is a big boat. You can't kill a Crown Vic, for instance, short of driving it 250K miles as a taxi or as a police car. Buick is also a good brand, btw.
3 - Look at what you relatives have and consider possibly buying one of their old vehicles. You can skip smog and taxes with a family transfer. This can give you more money and a usable history as well, so IF you must drive a beater, at least it's not a total surprise.
Mitsubishi comes to mind if you don't like the American offerings; a Galant can be had for next-to-nothing due to the brand perception in the US.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
The '07-'09 Saturn AURA was and is a great car- it's a twin to the Malibu, but better looking inside and out.
The '05-'07 VUE compact SUV can also be a great used buy if you stick with FWD and the V6 (a Honda-supplied 3.5L).
The '09-'13 Mazda6 is one of the best cars that nobody bought??? So they can be a steal used, but avoid ones that have been rental cars.
The '06-'10 Hyundai Sonata and Hyundai Azera are both great deals and the '07-'10 KIA Optima is also a great car, but ABS was optional and I wouldn't buy a car without it.
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
But then, your point is, cheap car for 1st driver - a Saturn would fit that need, and they don't have any special problems that aren't pretty common in all GM junk.
I replaced my wife's Nissan Maxima with a a 2008 Saturn Aura XR and has outperfomed it in every category including reliability...except for handling.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
The top of the line Saturn Aura XR with the 3.6 was $3000 cheaper than the Maxima was 8 years before. It is quicker than the Maxima on reg. gas and gets 31 mpg on the hwy, bettering the Maxima's best of 30. The ride is smoother, The cabin is quieter and it has more options. The steering shaft and a door lock actuater have been replaced under warranty. Both are common issues with these cars. It runs great, does not burn a drop of oil and overall we are happy with the purchase. Also after sitting outside 5 plus years the white paint and chrome (plastic?) look as good as the day we bought it. The interior leather is wearing very well too.
The original Saturn models were outdated before they even built the factory! They used the Civic and Corolla that were introduced in 1984 as the benchmark they were shooting for...but the cars didn't hit the market until 1990. When the 1992 Civic debuted, it made the 1992 Saturn SL seem closer to a Yugo or Ford Festiva than an actual competitor.
The S-series Saturns were also downright homely looking. Yes, they looked unique, but not in a good way. They loved to talk about those polymer body panels and how durable and dent resistant they were, which was true. But they also had huge panel gaps (required due to the body panels expanding and contracting with temperature changes) but the huge gaps were rarely even. I remember test-driving a 1991 SL2 just to see what the fuss was about. The hood was so misaligned that I could fit a thumb in the gap on one side and barely fit a pinky in the gap on the other side. The trunk lid was just as bad. The interior was almost as bad with poor fit and finish anywhere you looked. And don't get me started on the quality of inteiror materials....I've used Solo cups that felt more substantial.
Then there was that pinnacle of mechanical engineering under the hood! They design a brand new engine from scratch so it would be world class and highly competitive- an 8-valve head and Throttle Body Injection was definitely the way to go! It made 85hp and with the A/T it could hardly get out of its own way even at full throttle. But few owners ever floored the throttle because a potential crash and possible injury or death was preferable to the 'gravel in blender' sounds of the engine past 4000 rpm.
Then there was the DOHC 16v version in the SL2 good for 124hp and actually pretty quick for the time. But the engine sounded even worse than the weakling version and caused so much vibration that interior parts started buzzing and it was almost impossible to refrain from taking your hands off the steering wheel as it vibrated in front of your eyes! Perhaps they felt balance shafts didn't fit in with their 'all-new' different kind of car company b.s.???
Saturns reallly didn't become decent (some even rather good) cars until GM went back on their word and started badge-engineering and stealing cars from their European division to rebadge.
Instead of creating a new division to attract import buyers, GM could have used the $5 billion to improve their existing models. I wonder if they ever questioned why import buyers didn't like the cars they were already building??? Or did the combination of ignorance and arrogance prevent rational and logical thought? Regardless, it's all history now. But I do find it amusing that almost 50% of Saturn buyers weren't import shoppers- they would have purchased another GM brand if they didn't get a Saturn. So half of their sales were stolen from themselves!
Here is the lowdown as far as budget and needs are concerned:
Budget: $7,000 is the absolute ceiling and ideally it would be from a private seller.
Wants: Most importantly I want to be able to drive it for up to 60,000 miles hassle free. These would be easy city miles and I’d expect them to come over the course of 5-7 years of driving. I would like it to be a 4 door sedan with good to great gas mileage (30+ on the hwy would be nice), and, as far as amenities are concerned, cruise control would be nice but A/C is essential.
Primarily I am looking to know what model years to look at or to stay away froom; more specifically, with regards to my hope of getting 60,000 miles of hassle free driving out of the vehicle, I'm hoping to get some insight about what my cutoff point for mileage on a prospective purchase should be or how I might change my preferences to something more realistic.
Another question that I have been wondering about in the past few days:
Should I expect to pay more than edmunds appraisal values for a vehicle?
Thanks in advance!
Odds are something will break or wear out while you own it. That's the down side of driving a well-used car. The best years of such a car are behind it.
Not long ago I checked out a 2003 Civic EX 4-door that looked great inside and out. Had 120k miles. The dealer selling it had done a lot of work on it before putting it on the market. But when I test drove it, the clutch made a popping sound. So I passed. They wanted $6800, which I thought was too much for a 10-year-old Civic with 120k miles and an unknown problem in the clutch/transmission.
I wound up buying a 2005 Mazda6i Sport hatch with 160k miles for $4880. Great condition inside and out, everything worked... for a few weeks. Then the alternator started failing. Repair shop wanted $500 to replace it. (I bought the part on the Web and had a friend who's a good mechanic to put it in for me: total cost $160.)
The Civic will be as reliable as any other $7k car you can buy, but don't expect to put $0 into it for 5-7 years of city driving.
As others have said, you will have to do some repairs on even the best used car. A car 10 or more years old will have parts that wear out. It is imperative that you have a mechanic check out a car before you buy it to make sure it is in good working condition when you buy it.
Good luck!
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
I am not opposed to looking at other models; I just figured it would be easier for me to become an expert in 6 weeks on one model as opposed to looking at them all. I know Mazda makes a good vehicle and the Toyota Camary would probably fit the bill too. Thanks for the information on Consumer Report, though I was under the impression that you have to pay for a subscription? What is the best way to get that issue, is it readily available online?
03 with 85K
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/3978569076.html
and
04 with 93K
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/cto/4007976069.html
If you have $7000 now, how about this: get a brand-new 2013 Civic LX for c. $17,500. For only a little bit down you'll have payments of about $300 a month. A new Civic is likely to have at least 7 years of almost trouble-free driving, with only regular maintenance. And at the end of seven years it'll probably have a resale value of c. 7000 or so. With a 10-year old used car, you might have repairs of as much as 3000 or more over 7 years. In other words, the cost might actually be about the same in the long run, but rather than driving an old car that'll probably cause you considerable trouble you'll be driving a new car that's faster, safer, more reliable, and gets better mpg.
You local Honda dealer (or Toyota or Hyundai etc ) wants your business and has low 1.9 factory financing available if you have good credit.
My guess is that you're in your 20s. When I was in my 20s I bought used car after used car, another one every 5 years or so, and each one had significant repair and maintenance issues that cost $$$. Looking back on it, I think for the same money I could have been driving a new car and keeping it longer.
Just my 2 cents.
If you look at a hybrid consider how old the battery is as they are very expensive to replace. You will probably be able to get a newer gas model cheaper and they get good gas mileage too.
Tom and Ray, the car guys, say that as a rule of thumb you should expect to put $1000 per year into a used car. Maybe not every year but there will be some years when you do. So put some $ aside for the inevitable repairs. That's still less per year than a $300/month car payment. Insurance is less too. When I was in my 20's I couldn't afford a new car payment and we had used cars for years. My kids did too.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
DO NOT GET THE CIVIC HYBRID.
If you have to replace the hybrid battery during your period of ownership, which is almost a certainty, you are looking at thousands of dollars. The model years you would be looking at also had some issues, one of which caused degradation of MPG, so you would have a problem vehicle AND you wouldn't be reaping the benefits of fuel savings. Just enter "Civic Hybrid" into the search box on the left of this page and you can find a list of discussions about that vehicle, most of them with the word "problems" in the discussion title.
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Bill G
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
Bill G
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
Yes, I recall them saying something like that too, and I'm afraid to say that averaged out it more or less held true for me back when I was driving c. 10 year old cars. Some years might be $500, but other years might be $2000, and the average was probably around a thousand.
But that might be another argument for new car. If you spend 7k on a used car and spend another 7k in maintenance and repair over the next 7 years, you're out 14,000, and at the end of it you have ancient car with almost no value.
If you instead start buying a new car, at the end of 7 years you'll still have something that's worth a good deal, and you can either trade it in or keep driving it. For many new cars, all you'll basically just need to do are a lot of oil changes, and probably a set of tires, but maintenance and repair costs will almost certainly be very low and quite predictable.
Your time and stress levels also are worth money. The stress and the hours at repair shops I used to spend with old cars was worth something to me in cold, hard cash, even if I was never paid for it. To be almost free from those annoying hours spent in that way with a new car is a positive dividend that's worth a good deal imho.
Again, just my 2 cents.
No matter what the brand, it's a good time to buy or lease because car dealers are clearing out the last of the 2013 models. You should be able to get a good deal. Try this site:
www.carwoo.com
There are other, similar sites that are probably just as good. You put in the model you want, and then dealers within a 50-100 mi radius compete for your biz and offer you a good price.
I'm a pretty frugal money conscious kind of guy so my initial impulse when I hear "purchase new" is "OMG no, depreciation!!!!" but I do see that a used car can end up costing the same, if not more. Essentially, my goal, is to have the most reliable vehicle possible, while incurring the least overall cost (duh, who has any goal other than that), to that end, and thinking along the lines of the reason people are suggesting purchasing new, why hasn't anyone recommended purchasing something 3 or so years old from a dealership? Don't we get most of the same benefits (reliable) while not incurring the cost of depreciation?
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
If you're going to get a 3-4 year old Ford, GM or Chrysler, sure, go ahead and get used. Probably that's better than a 10 year old Honda. You also might be able to get a 3-4 year old Hyundai or Nissan at a good price.
But if you're fixed on Honda, and as a big Honda fan myself I can see why, then getting a 3 year old Honda in tip-top shape ("Certified") doesn't get you much of a discount compared to new. And by 3 years your bumper to bumper warranty has expired.
And yes there's depreciation, but the first three years in a car's life are almost always its best and most trouble-free years.
2013 Mazda Mazda3 i SV 4dr Sedan in 40201
MSRP PRICING:
$17,495
Target Price: $14,786
Having owned both Mazdas and Hondas in my life, I think they are both good cars. Imho Hondas are better, but it looks right now like you can get a bare bones base 2013 Mazda3 for about 2500 less than a 2013 Honda Civic.
In the long run buying is usually cheaper than leasing. But if you want a different car every 3 years or so, this is something to consider.
Civic Sedan
$159
Per month for 36
months $2,599 total due at signing.
or finance at 0.9 for 5 years...
Civic Sedans
0.9%
APR for 24-60 months
2013 Civic Sedan Special APR
0.9% APR for 24-60 months
For well-qualified buyers and buyers that qualify for the Honda Graduate Program criteria