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Mazda6 Sedan

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  • Mazda to use Ford engines and transmissions in the Mazda 6:

    http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/011113/t38588_1.html
  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Posts: 1,007
    Posted by theparallax at the Mazda Protege forum ...

    http://www.carseverything.com/content/article/1346.1/


    The point I was happies to note was - manual tranmission with the 6 cylinder :-)

  • What do you expect in terms of V 1.0 problems with the Mazda 6? I used to trust Japanese cars to come out pretty bug-free in early versions, but this one has the taint of the Ford connection. The Mazda Tribute's teething problems have been an embarrassment, and they don't seem to be over.
  • mazdafunmazdafun Posts: 2,327
    At least that's what the specs on the link in msg 123 indicate. Glad to hear the hatch is coming over. Interested in the wagon too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The Duratec block is fine. Mazda seems to have reengineered the entire thing, basically.

    I would be concerned if it got the Ford CD4E tranny that plagues 4 cylinder auto 626s to this day.

    -juice
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    Look at the latest reliability ratings. Mazda ranked nowhere near Toyota and Honda. And Ford ranked above Nissan!


    http://www.detnews.com/2001/autos/0111/16/b01-345143.htm

  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Posts: 1,007
    Is about as out of date as the average car maker in Detroit.

    It has the Mercury Tracer listed as the second most reliable compact car. That car )which is a twin of the Ford Escort) went out of production years ago.

    And for what its worth, both are based on the early 90s Mazda Protege/323 platform.

    Umm, and 'Isuzu Oasis' as the most reliable minivan? Am i the only ignoramus who's never even heard of that vehicle? Oh - and the jeep Cherokee as one of the reliable SUVs - JD Powers lost another few rungs of their 'trustworthy and reliable ladder' - wait, they fell of THAT long ago, didn't they?

    So much for good 'ole JD Powers, and Detroit News :-)
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Perhaps if you had taken the time to read the (brief) study, you would have noticed that it was a VEHICLE DEPENDABILITY STUDY AFTER 5 YEARS of Ownership. This means that 96/97 Models were examined, explaining why the Mercury Tracer would be in the study, and also invalidating your statement that it is out of date. The Isuzu Oasis is a version of the former generation Honda Odyssey, and it never sold well enough to be noticed, so that's probably why alot of people wouldnt know it.
    I don't always agree with JD Power personally, (ex- the "APEAL" study is ridiculous... thanks very much but I can judge for myself which cars appeal to me) but the Vehicle Dependability Study is one that I would value more so than others, since I can't OWN a vehcile for 5 years THEN decide if I want to buy it.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    No comment for the other poster who didn't bother to read the article before commenting on it.
  • Even if Mazda "does the right thing" and brings the 6 hatchback here - the heavy ford content has me worried. My sister had to replace the transmission - twice! - on her (older) taurus, along with tie rods. Ford's early problems with the focus aren't encouraging either (though Car and Driver's long-term Focus wagon had no problems thru 40,000 mi, so maybe they've got the bugs out). It makes buying "v1.0" of a mazda 6 look risky. Might have to look for that rumored MPS sedan or (I wish) a higher-power PR5.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    See post #127 for a reliability rating report. Mazda ranked below the industry average. The report measures reliability of vehicles after 5 years. If my time frame is correct, this was before Ford invested in Mazda. It wasn't exactly at the top of its class to begin with, so I don't think the problem is Ford.
  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Posts: 1,007
    Lots of factors go into this less-than-stellar rating ...

    Ford has had its hand in the works since about 1990. Platform sharing (Escort-Tracer-Protege) and cross-branding (Mazda trucks don't exist, they're all Ford POS's) and parts-bin-digging (The automatic transmissions in some Mazda's like the 626, and the relatively unmodified Duratec in the Tribute, and the heavily-modified in the Mazda 6, soon).

    The highest-selling Mazda-labelled vehicles out there are (I understand) the Ford-built Mazda trucks. Thta is sure to bring down manufacturer ratings way down.

    However, in individual classes, whatever Mazda has designed and built has traditionally been awesome - in terms of reliability and performance - the 323/Protege, the RX-7, the Miata/MX-5 (still the highest selling 2 seater EVER - its listed in the Guiness Book of World Records, and single-handedly responsible for bringing the British tradition of sporty soft-tops to the rest of the world) and the erstwhile Mazda MX-6 - which was also sold as the Ford Probe, and was one of Frod's most reliable offerings ever (sorta like the Geo Prism being a Toyota Corolla).

    That's why a 'company-wide' reliability report does not do justice to Mazda :-)
  • That is an interesting report. I usually go off Consumer Reports magazine for reliability, and nissan at the bottom seems unlikely - must depend on the vehicle. The maxima, for example, does very well in long-term reliability. As to mazda, I owned a '91 protege, and had no problems for the first 100,000 miles (finally had a brake job at 90,000 - replaced the clutch at like 130,000). So for purely mazda components, I think the reliability is very good.

    The Ford thing is a mixed deal. They just fired their CEO, who had canned experienced engineers and quality-control people. This is encouraging for the future. If not for Ford, Mazda might be out of business. But the Focus problems were pretty bad early on. Mazda, and Ford, need to be pretty diligent to bring the 6 (in whatever form) to the US without significant early production problems. This pushes back when I'd be willing to buy a 6, and makes me lean towards some version of the Protege - or buy nothing and hold on to my civic for awhile longer.
  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    Actually, the graph in that reliability article is somewhat misleading. The only companies listed on the graph are the ones that had BETTER than average reliability. They didn't graph the companies that were below average, they just listed them in the article. So Nissan wasn't really at the bottom of the list, it was just above the middle. And they listed the Maxima as the most reliable mid-size sedan, beating the Camry.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That's typical of JDPower, they only publish the top half of the results. I'd like to know who came in last!

    -juice
  • Juice: It isn't JD Powers, but the Car Talk radio show site has a survey posted that they conduct each year. They test both customer satisfaction with car brands ("would you buy again?") and satisfaction with dealerships. And they definitely tell you who the bottom-feeders are, listing the worst ten in each category in what they call the "Fecal Roster." But again, this isn't JD Powers.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Got it.

    -juice
  • hey whats up with this how come this message board died man!!
    any of you out there have any new info on the "6"..im gonna be in the market for a catr next year and looking to get either the mazda 6 or the new 2003 accord
  • post some message
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    We're here, just haven't heard anything new yet. I think C&D has a little tid bit on the 6, but nothing new. Edmunds had some car show coverage and there are links to them bit further back.

    -juice
  • when the car comes out this will probably fill up
  • I'd buy the "6" tomorrow if I can get:
    1. yellow
    2. 5 or 6 six speed manual
    3. 18" wheels (ok, 17" would work too)
    4. hatchback

    "6" will be at the Detroit Auto Show 1/12 to 1/20. I called Mazda's 800 number and told the girl my 2¢ worth: Bring the Yellow hatchback w/ 5-6 speed manual trans. to the USA!!
  • If they could make the 6 wagon similar in style to the Protege 5 I'd grab one. I love the sportwagon concept and the 5 has just the right amount of ground effects and other styling cues to make it super cool without being juvenile.

    Pictures I've seen of the 6 wagon aren't very informative as to the car's profile.
    Front and rear appear pretty stylish but side may be too conservative from what I can see. Need sporty add ons like the Protege5 but don't know if that is in the cards. I look forward to checking this out at the Detroit show along with the more pricey Infinit G35.
  • stanny1stanny1 Posts: 962
    I haven't heard if the 6 will have a five or six-
    speed Manual, but Mazda already did a prototype Duratech with RX-7 overdrive five-speed and stuck it in a Miata. Even though the 6 is FWD, the tranny may be an RX-7 O/D five-speed in a new FWD case. The auto, of course, will most likely be out of the Taurus. It's a no brainer. There are two variations of the Duratech of note. One is the dual exhaust version as used in the Taurus rated at 200 hp. Then there is the version used in the Lincoln LS that uses the DRAM (Direct Acting Mechanical Buckets) heads instead of follower valve activation for higher rpm durability. It's hard to say which version Mazda will use. They could even put in the "garden variety" Duratech from the Taurus (single exhaust). The Duratech used in the Miata was a 240-250 hp model that will most likely appear in the 2003 LS that has Jaguar heads with V V T .
    So there may be alot of upward hp potential in the 6 as time goes on.
    I hope that the 6 does not get a Getrag five-speed. This tranny has a 1:1 fifth with no overdrive. With no O/D, the rear end ratio will have to be higher, which will hamper acceleration and gas mileage. That's the problem with the LS. So hope for a six-speed Getrag (very unlikely because of cost) or the Rx-7 overdrive five-speed, which could be the solution for the LS Manual. Look for future Mazdas to be more Ford. And this may not be bad if the right parts are used. The Duratech as used in the 2002 LS is 220 hp and a real screamer. No mag test has been done, but this V-6 should equal the LS V-8 in 0-60 (about 7 seconds). I think the 6 will be a good value depending on the price point. If too high, the G35 will eat it alive. The 3.5 Altima will also be serious competition if the 6 is in the mid 20's.
  • ambullambull Posts: 255
    You need to read the info found at the link referenced at msg #123 of Nov 15. It is very detailed. The engine with "S-VT" has 219 hp at 6,250 rpm and 202 ft-lbs at 4,500 rpm, which is mighty similar to the 220 hp of the 2002 Lincoln LS.
    As far as the transmission goes, the Powertrain section states, under the heading "New 5-speed Automatic and Manual Transmissions", "The A5M transmission is used for leveraging the higher-torque engines, including the V-6 gasoline engine and the diesel variants. This five-speed manual transmission also features Mazda attention to detail for optimal shift quality."
    That's all the article says about this transmission, and it remains to be seen whether or not it has overdrive, but it seems to indicate it is not a Getrag unit.

    Surely the 6 will be priced to compete with the Altima and not the G35. In fact, I recall an indirect reference to the Altima when a Mazda rep said that it may not have the sheer horsepower of some of its competition, but it has better handling. The G35 will have both.
  • stanny1stanny1 Posts: 962
    Great articles. I get the feeling the Duratech will only be available with the JATCO auto transaxle. I have not heard of Sequential Valve Timing. Is this another name for VVT ? Also, the Duratech used in the 6 appears not to have DAMB (Direct Acting Mechanical Buckets) heads, since the article speaks of finger type followers. So this version of the Duratech is more like the high line Taurus. The hp reflects this also.
  • stanny1stanny1 Posts: 962
    The manual for the four bangers is the G5M (could the G stand for Getrag?). The Duratech will have the A5M. Need details. The article says the Duratech will be available in "some markets" ???
    Also, the tires of the Flat Rock (US) made 6's are less agressive than the Euro/Asia market gets.
    But this is way more info than one can find on the G35. Thanks again Ambull. I'll take my foot out of my mouth now.
  • Im from the Los angeles area and was wondering if the "6" would appear at the LA autoshow as well.
    do any body Know?
    hey do any body know what price range it might come in
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