Mazda6 Sedan

baggs32 · May 2004

"I never said that they did."

I know. Since we've already established that they don't build one in-house for the 3.0L I was just stating that they surely didn't build one for the SVT's 2.5L V6 either. Which means they most likely didn't build one for the "regular" 2.5L. Especially since MTX Probes and Contours probably weren't exactly at the top of the sales charts. Therefore I think it has to be made by someone else.

" Sometimes I wonder where people come up with this stuff (a Ford manual in the Mazda6). Out of thin air? Out of a hat?"

CD4E.

It was in the 626 and is now in the Tribute too. Although it has actually been praised recently for it's reliability in the Escape/Trib twins by CR. That is, if you believe them.

Who makes the MTX in the I4 Mazda6? Is it the same one which is used in the Focus?

newcar31 · May 2004

is an automatic. Generally, the big 3 design and manufacture their own automatics. Manual transmissions are a whole nother' story.

Somehow people conclude that since older 626s (and new Mazda6?) had the CD4E, then the Mazda6 uses a Ford manual transmission? That's not very logical.

When I worked at Jiffy Lube, the common manual transmission manufacturers that I remember being used in all kinds of vehicles were: Mazda, Mitsubishi, New Process, ZF, BorgWarner, Aisin, Peugot (Jeeps), and Getrag. Nissan and Honda make their own manuals and don't share them like Mitsu and Mazda IIRC. I don't remember any of the big 3 having their own manual transmissions.

ngervacio · May 2004

Can anybody give me a price for a 2003? I found one that's a brand new 6S, MT, comfort package, sport package, leather, and moonroof. It's brand new but has something like 600 miles of test drive miles on it. Are there still any dealer incentives or customer rebates on 2003s? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

thegreatvudini · May 2004

There have been a lot of complaints about the 6 cloth seats being frayed just after a few months. Whether true or not, I would not risk it. Get the leather seats and enjoy! It's definitely worth the money (knowing what you know now about cloth seats...)

vudini

baggs32 · May 2004

"Somehow people conclude that since older 626s (and new Mazda6?) had the CD4E, then the Mazda6 uses a Ford manual transmission? That's not very logical."

Sure it is. You're forgetting that most people don't care what type it is. They either think all Ford parts are bad or all Ford parts are good. If they are from the former group and hear that a Ford tranny, whether it be M or A, is bolted on they will run. Especially if they had a bad experience with one in the past.

A lot of people who buy imports do so because they had a bad experience with a domestic. If Joe Carbuyer is shopping for an import brand, a Mazda6 in this case, because he had a Taurus die on him at 36,001 miles, he's not going to like it when he finds out the engine block and other various parts are from the Ford parts bin. If that isn't enough to turn him away all he has to do is look at where the car is built.

That's why people always ask which parts were made by Ford. I say, who cares? Life is too short to worry about that sort of thing. Buy it if you like it. Lease it if you like it but are worried.

mjvchicago · May 2004

Ah yes, the kids. I have the same problem. But luckily our MPV does most of the kid duty. When the young ones are with me, I typically turn it down significantly. Good luck with finding the perfect sound. Maybe Mazda will see this and make some improvements.

newcar31 · May 2004

"Sure it is."

I am saying that it is not logical to assume that the Mazda6 uses a Ford manual transmission because the 626 used a Ford automatic, especially since Ford sourced a lot of their manual transmissions from Mazda. Since Jeep used to use GM engines, does that mean that the new Jeeps must have GM engines? Jeep used Peugot manual transmissions, does that mean they use Peugot automatic transmissions now?

I just have a problem when someone proclaims that the Mazda6 uses a Ford manual transmission without any evidence besides the 626 using the CD4E at one point in time. I personally don't know for sure who designed the manuals in the Mazda6, but I'll bet they aren't designed by Ford.

ramped · May 2004

There was a post similar to yours recently on the MZ6 buying experiences board. I believe that individual was thinking about purchasing an 03 6 with about the same mileage you are looking at.

My advice then was that a dealer cannot possibly cut the cost of a new 03 low enough to make it worth while for you. With the 05s only a few months away, the depreciation on a new 03 will be staggering. I don't know why dealers who still have new 03s don't use them as service loaners so they can sell them as used.

You are much better off looking at an 04. When you factor in the depreciation, it will probably cost you less than an 03, even after whatever rebates remain available, over the long run.

shov6 · May 2004

This one's sure to quickly become a "read only" thread, but what are the differences?

I'm pretty sure I already know about one, which is that I've been seeing a whole bunch of new 6's with a roof-mounted antenna. At first I thought it was just the antenna for a non-Bose stereo, but now someone at work has a new 6S with a roof antenna and a "Bose" sub visible on the rear deck. No roof-mount for me, though I would like one esp. if it improves the ability of the radio to pull in more distant stations.

In any case, anything else I'm "missing out on" in the '04's?

ericzoom · May 2004

Be careful with the 2003 6s,because there were 3 recalls and a bunch of tech. service bulletins. In my part of the country they are still giving $2500 cash rebates. Whatever you choose,make sure everything is up to date on the car's servicing. I could have bought a 2003,but I felt the depreciation was too great and I also didn't want to buy a 1st year model,no matter what kind of car it was.

baggs32 · May 2004

"I am saying that it is not logical to assume that the Mazda6 uses a Ford manual transmission because the 626 used a Ford automatic, especially since Ford sourced a lot of their manual transmissions from Mazda."

No it's not but people do it. Not everyone is an enthusiast.

"I just have a problem when someone proclaims that the Mazda6 uses a Ford manual transmission without any evidence besides the 626 using the CD4E at one point in time."

Likewise. I also have a problem with folks who bash Ford and Mazda because of the bad batch of trannies in the 626. Times have changed and both companies would be out of business if those changes weren't for the good.

Now that Honda has bad trannies what are all those lemmings going to do? Maybe Saturn VUE owners should start worrying too.

baggs32 · May 2004

Oh well. I'll just keep on tuning until I get it right. If that's even possible.

carlh · May 2004

Getting ready to buy the 6 and I'm wondering which will be more durable, cloth or leather. In addition, the way it's packaged, the only way to get leather is to get the 1LX package which includes leather seats, heated seats, heated outside mirrors, power driver seat, and electroluminescent gauges. The gauges are cool and the power seat is nice but it's an all or nothing proposition which lists at $1500. Worth it? I've always had cloth but am considering the upgrade if the durability is better. Anyone have good or bad things to say about either seat type?

mazdajk · May 2004

When I was looking at the options I wanted on my 6, I tested one with the Bose system and really was not impressed with the sound for the price. The thing that I do not undrestand is that if you get the Bose system you can only control
the bass and treble, but if you get the stock set up you also get the midrange control which I like.
The speakers are the problem and the way the system is phased.The speakers are 25watt two way with paper cones (junk) !!! The front sounds better because of the tweeter up by the windows. The rear really sucks! I went to Best-Buy and they had 4way's that were made to fit Mazda cars for about $100 (Pioneer). I hoped that would improve the sound coming from the rear. No Go !
The system isn't phased right to get full range of sound in the rear. The better speakers made no difference at all. Anybody have any suggestions other than a whole new system?:)
I did not buy the 6 for it's stereo thats for sure. The stock system isn't really that bad If your not cranked to loud. Being able to control the midrange also helps.
Other than the stereo, the 6 is a great car and I'm very happy with it.

pat · May 2004

If you hit refresh after making a post, your message will repost. The best way to redisplay a page after making a post is to click on the "Recent Msgs" link on the page bar.

And if you see where someone has hit refresh after making a post and therefore reposted, you might want to realize that the software here is very different than many message boards and give a person a break.

baggs32 · May 2004

"Other than the stereo, the 6 is a great car and I'm very happy with it. "

The stereo is my only complaint too. It's a minor one though as I have heard worse.

The seven speaker JBL system in my Dad's '96 Sable is one of the better systems I've heard and it has a very similar setup to the BOSE. Apparently the speakers and amp are better though.

I shouldn't complain too much because I often find myself turning the volume down so I can hear the engine and that sweet exhaust sound.

accord7 · May 2004

I think it's a tossup, where both have advantages and disadvantages. The leather is fancier looking, more comfortable (more padding) and adds value to the car. On the other hand, you must condition it a few times during the year, it's cold when you first sit down during the cooler months, and over time may wrinkle depending on amount of use. In my opinion, cloth is less comfortable in the 6, and may fray according to some posters. On the positive side (if there is no fraying problem), the cloth is maintenance free and costs less. I think the two tone look is good also.

newcar31 · May 2004

Accord sales are down this year from last year.

On topic:

Sales of the Mazda6 are up.

newcar31 · May 2004

"Hmmm. I'd trade a little Accord capacity for TL. Wouldn't you?"

Yeah, why not, but I'd still be wondering why Accord sales are down in it's 2nd year, despite it being the "benchmark" in it's class.

"TSX sales are up 353%"

Maybe Honda should have made more of them last year, and maybe there is more of a market for attractive, sporty sedans like the Mazda6 and TSX in the US than Honda thought.

newcar31 · May 2004

"Again, wouldn't you trade a little capacity before you add rebates?"

Are you trying to say that Honda is purposely trying to sell less Accords?

Whatever the reason, Accord sales have dropped, which is probably why you haven't been in here giving us sales updates.

newcar31 · May 2004

I was just pointing out a trend. Mazda6 sales up. Honda Accord sales down. I don't know what the TL and Mazda3 have to do with that.

buggywhip · May 2004

The 6 is meeting its sales goals, and then some. Sales needn't climb astronomically each month to prove a car's worth. The 6 is catching on fast. It already obliterated the new Galant (which is a massive failure) and it's stealing sales from Acura. Sounds like the 6 is pretty darned good stuff.

anonymousposts · May 2004

"it's stealing sales from Acura."

Now THAT's a stretch.....

ramped · May 2004

in the form of manufacturer to dealer cash. Reports on some of the boards here say right now the dealer cash is about $600, which seems to be moving to the buyers bottom line without too much fuss. Anyone with lips and a brain can get an Accord for several hundred under invoice. And, that's a great deal.

Honda and Toyota execs seem to be aware that the Altima is a huge hit for Nissan, and that the MZ6 is gathering steam. The Camry LE is passing out $1,500 cash in the Southeast Region.

Great time to be a car buyer.

pat · May 2004

We're here talking about the 6. It's probably time to get back to the subject before we get into the serious trouble that we've, um, previously experienced.

newcar31 · May 2004

Just filled up last night and calculated 26 mpg in mostly city driving with a 6i MT. I find it amazing that this car gets identical fuel mileage to my 2001 Protege ES and my 1992 Integra GS-R. Both of those cars were significantly lighter, and had smaller, less powerful engines.

kptsaab · May 2004

Didn't mean to start a firestorm...see Mazda6tech.com..transmission is similar to a design used in Contour and Jaguar. My experience agrees with Motor Trends test: "The shifter is quick and accurate, although the linkage could stand to be a bit firmer". I still love my Mazda 6. And I agree that damning a part due to mfg'er sourcing is silly.

anonymousposts · May 2004

but a 92 GS-R does have a smaller engine (1.7L) but it made more HP than the 6i at 170HP. The base 1.8L Integra made 140HP.

Even if fuel economy is the same the 92 Integra GS-R is a 13 year-old car. A new RSX-S has 200HP and gets 24/31 vs. the less powerful 6 getting 25/32.

As for the Protege, I can agree with you there. Our 2001 ES 5-speed never seemed to crack the 30MPG range vs a 93 "H" car that we had that got nearly 40MPG on one trip.

newcar31 · May 2004

"I hate to be the one but a 92 GS-R does have a smaller engine (1.7L) but it made more HP than the 6i at 170HP. The base 1.8L Integra made 140HP."

I hate to be the one to say that you're wrong, I expect more from you as a Honda lover. The 92-93 GS-Rs had the 160 hp 1.7L and much less torque than my 6i. The 1994 had the 170 hp 1.8L.

"Even if fuel economy is the same the 92 Integra GS-R is a 13 year-old car. A new RSX-S has 200HP and gets 24/31 vs. the less powerful 6 getting 25/32."

So what if it's 13 years old? There are cars older than that that get better mileage than my GS-R did. The RSX is lighter than my 6.

anonymousposts · May 2004

well isn't my keyboard red?

Regardless of the torque rating I would be willing to bet the performance of a 92-93 vintage GS-R would be equal to if not better than the 6i.

The RSX may be lighter (by 300lbs)than your 6 but it also puts out 40 more HP and can run 0-60 in 6.3 seconds.

newcar31 · May 2004

As far as acceleration is concerned, my GS-R and my 6i are about equal. According to the mags, both of them are around 8 seconds 0-60. Needless to say, the 6 feels quicker because you don't have to wind it out as much. Yeah, the 2.3L isn't a torque monster, but compared to the 1.7L in my GS-R, it feels like a turbo diesel.

All I was trying to say is that 26 mpg is pretty respectable for a midsize car in traffic.

anonymousposts · May 2004

Gas mileage is becoming more and more important to me. Our daily commute is 80 miles round trip. When I go back to work the gas is going to really add up if it stays at the current level. We were spoiled by the days of $.69 gas that we had 8 or 9 years ago.

I filled up our van the other day and was pleasantly surprised to see it was getting 21 MPG. Not bad for a 4,500 lb vehicle with a 3.5L engine that we didn't hesitate to try out over the first few days. Then I imagined how much more gas we would use over our other cars (which get 30MPG or so) driving it to work and back. Then I started feeling REAL sorry for those people in Expeditions, Excursions, and Suburbans getting 10-15 MPG. Ouch.

sandman46 · May 2004

You and Gee drive 80 miles daily to work? Unbelievable. You're outside of Atlanta...right? Was up there many years back for a few weeks and I was surprised how far out things were from downtown Atlanta.
I'm so glad my round trip commute is about 20 miles, as I've hated traffic more and more as I gotten older...people can be such boneheads!
Showed the wife the new 6 last night as we were driving home from dinner. She really liked the way it looked and will add it to our short list when we get ready to give the kids my Sentra and give me her Altima.

The Sandman :-)

anonymousposts · May 2004

It's 40 miles each way for both of us. My car is at 16,000 miles right now and we've had it since September. Gee's daily driver is at 12,000 miles and he has had it since August. It only takes about 45 minutes though as long as we go to work at off-peak times.

We are 60 miles west of Atlanta and work in the northern suburbs. We are as close to Alabama as we are to Atlanta. We moved out here this time last year and doubled our commute but we also doubled the house and yard size for about half of what we would pay closer in. It's a good trade-off. We love mountains and green space not too much of that to be found closer in any more.

cheesehead6 · May 2004

I intend to say nothing about any another car but the Mazda6 sedan (hear that Pat?).

Regular gas has hit $2.00 in this part of the upper midwest.

Before Christmas, when my wife and I had decided to get a Mazda 6, we debated 6s versus 6i MT. We liked the 6i a lot. Seemed to shift a bit smoother than the V6, & seemed a tad bit more nimble. But the extra power of the 6s was a real temptation. In the end,after doing a number of test-runs onto freeway on-ramps we decided that the 2.3 engine was plenty strong enough, and we ordered one.

Am I ever glad now! I've got a similar 80 mile a day round trip commute--thankfully not in big city traffic--4 days a week. The gas mileage of the 2.3 engine (round about 28-30) is comforting. I've made loads of bad decisions in my life, but going for the 6i MT wasn't one of them.

I wouldn't want to be driving one of those nice V6s tuned for premium to work just about now. Got one of those in the driveway too. It stays there as much as possible.

accord7 · May 2004

After sitting on the sidelines for over a year, I ordered a 6s earlier this week. I'm supposed to get it in late June.

I ordered a 6s, non-sport, automatic. I'm happy with my decision, although the option packages limited me. I could not see myself in the sports package model, I really like the clean look without the side sills. I wanted leather, but leather can't be had without the sport package in the s model, so that took care of that. I opted for the automatic, only because I'm spoiled by Honda 5-speed manuals. So I basically settled on a car with a transmission and interior I wouldn't have opted for, but did so because it's still the most fun car to drive for the money.

Not getting another Accord was a big step for me. Just goes to show that even a diehard Honda man can jump ship when the competition is right.

mazda6s · May 2004

Can someone please explain to me what fuel mileage of an Accord or a Honda van has to do with the Mazda6? Or how far somebody drives to work in Atlanta in one of those vehicles? Or how long it takes to get to work in one of those?

pat · May 2004

The way to get this discussion back on topic is to start talking about the topic.

Anyone?

sandman46 · May 2004

Chill babe...sometimes it can be fun and interesting to go off on a slight tangent. You sometimes have to just go with the flow!

The Sandman :-)

I was wondering, what version of the Mazda 6 is equivalent to the Accord LX and the Camry LE and are they all comprobaly priced. Right now, these 3 cars are in contention for our next new ride.

fowler3 · May 2004

"As for the Protege, I can agree with you there. Our 2001 ES 5-speed never seemed to crack the 30MPG range vs a 93 "H" car that we had that got nearly 40MPG on one trip."

I think it depends on how one drives and whether they are trying to stay ahead of the pack or they want high fuel economy. My 2001 Protegé LX, with the same 2.0L engine and AT, got 36mpg on a daytrip to Virginia over twisty mountain roads and four-lane highways. Traffic was light and it was a beautiful day perfect for a long drive. I kept it on a steady 60mph. Most folks here consider that city speed.

I agree with the '93 H car's mileage, I had a '94 H car that got 42mpg w/out air on and 38.5mpg with air running. It was an MT.

What seems funny reading C&D are the test reports and shoot outs between big V8 luxury cars where the testers say they get good gas mileage. Anyone who can afford a $70,000 car shouldn't worry about the cost of gas, IMHO.

In fact, I know two owners of the civilian version of the Abrams M-1 tank, the Lincoln Navigator, who say they don't care if gas is $10 a gallon they will still drive them.

One thing to consider when trying to decide between the Mazda6i and the Mazda6s, the difference in the annual cost of gas. It's surprisingly small and may sway some buyers towards the s model. Of course, insurance will be higher for the more expensive car and it goes up.

If you want to save gas, on your shopping trips plan where you are going and your route so you do not have to make U-turns and zigzag across thoroughfares from store to store. Hit the ones going in on the same side of the street first, then the ones on the other side on the way home. If they are miles apart still do the same thing.

Crude just hit $40 a barrel this weekend.

fowler3

livaudais · May 2004

AutoPacific's annual vehicle satisfaction survey lists the Mazda6 as the winner in the sedan category for the second year in a row. I guess that's no surprise; they didn't ask me, but I certainly have been happy with mine :-)

CL

newcar31 · May 2004

I saw that too. At first, I thought, cool, another award. Then I saw that the Pontiac Grand Prix was voted "best premium midsize car" whereas the Mazda6 was voted "best standard midsize car".

First of all, what's the difference between "premium" and "standard"? Second of all, the Grand Prix was voted best of anything?

baggs32 · May 2004

"Second of all, the Grand Prix was voted best of anything?"

Well, it is the best at being one of the worst cars I've ever laid eyes on.

If GM keeps it up America will Revolt!

livaudais · May 2004

My eyes failed to register that the GP won anything. But hey, the LS 430 also won its category -- that's pretty good company. Newcar, you gotta look at the glass as half full :-)

CL

ramped · May 2004

I would think that the Mazda 6i would be most comparable to the Accord LX and the Camry LE. Essentially you are looking at three fairly well-equipped 4-cylinder sedans. The LX has an advantage with standard anti-lock brakes, which are options on the 6i and the Camry.

shov6 · May 2004

I've been keeping up with a spreadsheet to monitor my fuel consumption, and I'm fairly startled (still) to see the precipitous rise in fuel costs and the meager mileage my 6S gets.

To be fair, it's not that the mileage numbers are any worse than the sticker, it's just that I got better mileage on my '92 Taurus SHO. That car had similar weight, displacement, gearing, power and torque, yet the 6cyl 6 gets worse mileage by a decent margin.

Best-ever single-tank mileage on my SHO was 31.2mpg... About 550mi on a single 18-point-something tank.

Best ever single-tank mileage on my 6S is... 28.7mpg. That was all-highway, no A/C, in December of last year.

Worst ever single-tank mileage on my 6S is... 16.1 (!!!). Keeping in mind that most of my driving is "around town" with frequent stops and starts, and the car is still fairly new with under 5000mi on the odo. A typical tank rings in at around 18mpg, with my overall at this point just under 20mpg (19.98 to be exact).

Speaking of precipitous rises in fuel prices, I see that my last tankful from yesterday was $2.099, as compared to $1.369 at the same station on 12/27/04. That's a greater than 50% increase in 4-1/2 months.

Eeeek!

That said, I still love the car. I get lots of compliments and have more than one of my friends looking at getting one. Now if only that guy at work hadn't gotten the '04 and tried to one-up me by getting every conceivable option...

-SHOV6
Black '03 6S 5spd with the sport pak and Bose

dudleyr · May 2004

"I'm fairly startled (still) to see the precipitous rise in fuel costs and the meager mileage my 6S gets."

Bring on the diesel Mazda! : ^ )

cheesehead6 · May 2004

Bring on the hybrid 6

ashutoshsm · May 2004

Wow - I rarely bother to stop by here any more.

Anyway, my 6i has been doing fairly well on the gas usage since purchase. My first fully broken in summer usage is showing a healthy 2mpg increase over last summer.

My spreadsheet shows well over 26 mpg over the life of the car - this includes half-tankfulls in the low teens (12-15 mpg - don't bother asking how I acheived that with my 6i MT - but it was expected, FWIW!).

Best mileages include a spate of low 30s including a couple of tankfuls over 33mpg on highway trips close to the speed limit - one in an unloaded car, and once fully loaded (last month!)

The consistent improvement in mileage since purchase is attributed to residual break-in as well as the switch to Mobil 1 0W20 (which shows MANY other benefits, as per the UOA - Used Oil Analyses I've had performed on it). My heart goes all a-flutter when I think about the further gains I can expect in smoothness, driveability and mileage with my soon-upcoming switch to Redline or Mobil 90 weight Manual Tranny fluid.

I've gotten to the point where I can guesstimate my expected mileage (and gas fillup shutoff gallons) to within 1 mpg (or half a gallon, respectively). And I'm rarely over 10-15 miles off on when to expect the low fuel warning light (comes on at around 4.4 gallons remaining).

I personally don't know about the 6 cylinder engine, but friends say its great if driven well (in terms of mileage) and unforgiving when driven hard (just like my 4 cylinder - go figure).

For those willing to forego the immense driving pleasure difference between an appliance such as an Accord/Camry and the 6, for the mere tenths of cents per mile in increased gas consumption, I say, more power to you. But what are you doing to stop the sale and use of SUVs - the true cuplrits? This nit-picking (between the Camcord and 6 mileages)is not helping your pursestrings or the environment to any tangible extent. So go out and buy the only real sporty, cheap family sedan there is. The 6.

Whew. How's that for a late-night post-catchup rant?

sweetsixteen · May 2004

Do you think Mazda will push for higher incentives on the hatch during summer?

Mazda6 Sedan

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