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Mazda6 Sedan

14849515354342

Comments

  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    Anything is possible. If Ford gets this one right without any recalls, it should soar to the top of the reliability chart. Mazda needs to get this one right, like everyone else has been saying, so let's hope they don't have any issues with its introduction.

    Also, remember that the 626 shared Ford parts in the beginning of its life, which failed (trannies, mainly). So that brought it's score down. Hopefully Ford's hand in the 6 (limited as it may be) won't show in the way it usually does.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    The major Ford input in the 6 is the engine block for the V6 engine. I haven't heard of many engine block failures in new cars from ANY company. The Duratec has been around for a while without any real problem areas. I guess the modifications made to the engine have yet to be proven, but I'm confident that Mazda knows what it is doing.
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    Thus, the delays in introduction. I guess they wanted to avoid the Escape/Tribute start-up issues.

    Time well-spent IMO.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I know the Duratec is a good engine, from what I have heard. I do see plenty of Tauruses (Tauri?) broken down on the road though. I know that's vague data, but still makes you think.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    I don't know whether or not Tauruses break down more often that other cars. Who knows what was wrong with the Tauruses that you've seen on the side of the road. Were the trannys shot? They did have some transmission issues. Did they have the 3.0L "vulcan" motor? Did they run out of gas?
  • boxfanboxfan Member Posts: 180
    I asked about durability because we had an Audi (1990 V8 Quattro) that we got from relatives who did all the scheduled maintenance and had very few problems with it. Then we got it with 115K or so, and everything promptly fell apart. It drove well, but wasn't worth the thousands of dollars I was throwing at it. (So audi8q, don't keep your car too long--although I guess as a dealer you don't need to.) I was wondering if I could expect better results with my next car. Sorry if I helped get things too far off topic here.

    I have a coworker who bought a '94 Protege that had recurrent problems with the computer that controls everything. Eventually, Mazda replaced it free with a '95 model. I thought it was impressive that they acknowledged that there was a problem. One thing I've heard about Taurus transmissions is that Ford never really fixed the problem or admitted it. Maybe that's changed. Getting back to the 6, it seems like the 626 has been pretty reliable and was made in Flat Rock, so if the 6 doesn't have a Ford transmission, it should be pretty solid.
  • bean3422bean3422 Member Posts: 183
    I noticed that someone commented that the Escort was rated above average in reliability, but the Focus is worse than average.

    There is a simple and compelling reason for this...the 93?-99? Escort was built by Mazda and had Ford design cues. It was basically a worked over Protege.

    So Ford can take Mazda's design and engineering and turn it into an above-average reliable car, but when they try to build a car themselves, it is consistently below-average in reliability.

    Mazda builds their own car with NO Ford input (Protege, Miata), and it is consistly rated above average in reliability.

    Mazda takes Ford's design and engineering and gives it a Mazda makeover, (Tribscape, Mazda Pickup), and it consistently ranks below average in reliability.

    Mazda uses Ford engine block (MPV, future Mazda6) and the MPV is consistently rated above-average in reliability (even beating Honda).

    And there are those who say that Imports are not more reliable than domestics. Mazda builds very reliable cars, but Ford only has to get its fingers in the build process farther than an engine block and suddenly it is in the black reliability wise.
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    were from te AUTO tranny. No MANUAL cars had these terrible tyranny failures. I guess that if those 626s were sold anywhere else in the world, they would be above avg, for even the tranny. Why? B/c A/T are popular here - NA. Everywhere else, it's stick for 90%+ of the cars.

    Dinu
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    I contacted CarsDirect.com regarding 6 pricing, via their Live Chat. They said they will have pricing "soon, probably in November". In other words, they don't have a clue.
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    "There is a simple and compelling reason for this...the 93?-99? Escort was built by Mazda and had Ford design cues. It was basically a worked over Protege."

    The '91-03 Escort, Tracer and ZX2 are all on that same Mazda platform. Additionally, the '87-90 Tracer was on the Mazda 323 platform, I think. All of those are indeed pretty good cars judging from what I've seen and heard; better than the average Ford, anyway.

    -Andrew L
  • zeongzeong Member Posts: 31
    Even the Mazda PR doesn't have a clue. I sent an e-mail to Mazda USA and got the following reply for pricing. Basically, it's what audi posted before.

    ==================================================
    Mazda is excited about the release of the Mazda 6. Like you, we are
    all
    in anticipation of hearing about actual set pricing. Pricing is
    tentatively set as follows:
    Base Model- nicely equipped starting at $19,000.
    Fully Loaded- all the bells and whistles, up to $27,000.

    Along with the suspense, we are still waiting for the configuration
    paperwork and the available accessories that can be added to the
    vehicle. Keep checking the website because it won't be long now.
  • jtkz13jtkz13 Member Posts: 51
    The duratec used in the taurus' is generally a very reliable engine. Many more problems are with the Vulcan, than the higher hp duratec. I dont have any specific numbers, but from what I see 75% of taurus' are vulcans, moslty because the duratec is a high cost option. The tranny in the taurus' is much improved since they started having problems, but it is far from perfect. No worries for the Mazda 6 because it is not a Ford-sourced transmission. The Duratec actually has been ranked by many publications as an excellent engine, and was developed by Ford & Cosworth.
  • stretchsjestretchsje Member Posts: 700
    ...to be shipping a car when the pricing and available options aren't even public yet?

    On second thought, they do have the options on their site, we just know that it's likely not finalized.
  • tbonertboner Member Posts: 402
    They can print the stickers at the dealer, right.

    Or at the very least, have the final window stickers sent in a FedEx to be applied by the dealer before they go on sale.

    TB
  • harlequin1971harlequin1971 Member Posts: 278
    Base Model- nicely equipped starting at $19,000

    Yikes. I know once a few options are tossed on any car, the tag soars, but I was hoping to see the four come in around $17k to start...guess I am dreaming. Kind of puts the VWs back into play, IMO and makes the Nissans more price competitive. I know the 6 isn't an "entry-level" vehicle, but a base 4-cylinder at $19 approaches Passat/Audi A4 territory. Hope they are coming with the cars set on "stunning."

    They can print the stickers at the dealer, right.

    I think they generally do print the stickers at the dealer, or at least let the dealer print the final prices. That is how some dealers can add in their little extras. Not sure about all that, but I do recall several people talking about ADM fees on their stickers (which is a cute hide for "additional dealer mark-up").

    At $19k base...it makes the bottom feeders (like me at the moment) a little less excited. Suddenly, the Protege Mazdaspeed looks a little more enticing. Might just hold onto my money, and my 318 and see what 2004 brings to market. And at $27k loaded, you are directly stomping around in IS300 and G35 territory...not friendly company for a performance-orientated enthusiast.

    Hmmm...most disappointing news I have heard to date about the 6 release. Maybe I was just being too optimistic.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    The manufacturer's sticker, commonly known as the Moroney sticker, MUST state the retail price as set by the manufacturer. Any ADM must be on a SEPARATE sticker. That is US federal law. Anything else is a violation thereof and should be reported to the FTC, your state attorney general's office and probably even to a local lawyer for a possible civil suit against the dealer for fraud!

    Then again, you said you weren't certain. In that case, your assumption is incorrect. MSRP stickers are the MANUFACTURER'S suggested retail price, not some fantasy dreamed up by a dealer. Most dealers are good, honest competent people trying to make a buck.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    $19K? That's what the Camry goes for. The LE model with automatic starts at around $20,000 actually. The Passat is $22K, the Altima at $19K as well. So that's probably about right.
  • harlequin1971harlequin1971 Member Posts: 278
    guess that means that Mazda isn't interested in offering a Accord DX fighter. :)

    Just checked in on the price spread for the Accord. Looks like Mazda is in the right neighborhood. Guess I was just hoping it would be a few less coins.

    Silly flat economy.
  • lmaxsonlmaxson Member Posts: 4
    I work at a Mazda dealership. The window stickers are on the cars when they are delivered by the trucks. Now, whether they are applied at the port or at the factory, I do not know. But we already have pricing info. They're going to be very close to the 626 pricing. I can't wait to drive one!!!!
  • groovypippingroovypippin Member Posts: 264
    Christ, we've know the Canadian prices for 2-3 weeks and our Mazda6 doesn't even get here until January as a 2004 model.
  • stretchsjestretchsje Member Posts: 700
    Go ahead and share what pricing you can, please. We know the base MSRP starts at about 19k. Have base invoice? Price of stand-alone options? Whatever you can share....
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    "guess that means that Mazda isn't interested in offering a Accord DX fighter."

    You are right in that respect. There will be no "stripper" Mazda 6. Look at the equipment on the base 6i, they're comparable to the Accord LX, not the DX.

    This reminds me of the base model 2002 Altima with no AC or radio, only offered so they could advertise a really low starting price. haha
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    mazda6s-

    "This reminds me of the base model 2002 Altima with no AC or radio, only offered so they could advertise a really low starting price. haha"

    Yeah, they did that again for 2003. Not only does it come with no A/C or radio, but they cannot even be ordered as options. That really should be outlawed as a deceptive advertising practice. What's next, $10K for one with no wheels and the doors welded shut? I bet they have not built one single "base model" 02-03 Altima yet. Ridiculous.

    -Andrew L
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    At least the Accord DX has ABS, not bad for 16k. Get the dealer installed A/C and you are good to go. Wish ABS was a stand alone option on the 6, or even better standard.
  • kirill626kirill626 Member Posts: 8
    Well, the Build-Your-Own option is now available at www.mazdausa.com!!!

    Base MSRPs:

    MAZDA6 i $19,050
    Key features include:
    2.3L DOHC 4-cylinder engine with variable valve timing (VVT)
    4-wheel disc brakes
    AM/FM/CD audio system with six speakers

    MAZDA6 s $21,620
    Key features include:
    3.0L DOHC V6 engine with variable valve timing (VVT)
    Anti-lock brake system (ABS)
    16-inch alloy wheels
    Fully automatic climate control system

    Look into the link for more!
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    "I do see plenty of Tauruses (Tauri?) broken down on the road though. I know that's vague data, but still makes you think."

    Considering the car dates back to 1986 and was #1 for a while, the chances of seeing one broke down are high. BTW, the Duratec dates to 1996, so any pre 1996 would not have a Duratec and the comparison to the 6 motor is moot.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    A fully loaded Mazda 6 s cost $24,800 which includes the leather pkg., comfort pkg., sunroof, BOSE pkg., wheel locks, and rear mudguards. Beats the Accord EXV6, Camry SE and ALtima 3.5SE. Looks like my decision just got that much harder, and with a new Galant coming soon, I am gonna have a tough time deciding. I don't consider the i model because to get a fully loaded one, you have to get that stupid Sport Pkg., which is not worth it to me. I don't like body kits.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I had a used hand-me-down Taurus for a first car and that thing ran for an additional 2 years in my hands as I literally tried to break it down so my parents could get me a new car.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    2003 MAZDA6

    Trim

    MAZDA6 s

    Transmission

    5-Speed Manual

    Engine

    3.0L DOHC 24-valve 6- cylinder engine with Variable Valve Timing (VVT)

    Premium Package, Comfort Package, BOSE® Audio Package, Sport Package, Anti-Lock Brakes/Traction Control, Power Moonroof, Leather-Trimmed Upholstery, Side Air Bags/Side Air Curtains, All-Weather Floor Mats, Aluminum Fuel Filler Door (Bright Chrome), Cargo Net, Cargo Organizer and Tray, In-Dash 6-Disc CD Changer, Wheel Locks, Rear Mudguards, Alarm Shock Sensor Upgrade, Chrome Appearance Package, Cassette Player, Compass/AutoDim Mirror with Homelink
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    with the price I listed, I can no longer get these combos. What in the world is WRONG with Mazda. Seems like they got a lesson from Nissan. I do not want the Sports pkg., but if I want side airbags I have to get it. That's stupid IMO. Still want one though.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    are really dumb, and I think will cost them some sales. Now I have to decide between the better handling (reported) of the 6 and getting exactly the options I want on an Altima. Bummer.
  • stretchsjestretchsje Member Posts: 700
    Your calculation include TWO 6-disk changers. What are you going to do with the second one? :-)

    I agree, this packaging sucks. I guess we were warned :-/
  • kirill626kirill626 Member Posts: 8
    :-))))
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Mazda has done it again. To get ABS on the four, the way I see it, a moonroof comes along (not in MY driveway, it doesn't).

    Plus, a four equipped even REMOTELY the way I want it ends up costing me more than TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS more than the six.

    The six exists, according to the configurator, exactly as I want it equipped. Now I bet you anything from a dollar to a toupee that when I go to the dealer, Mazda will be unable to build the car as I want it (standard ABS, optional Side airbags, but: NO leather, NO sunroof, and preferably no Bose but I can live with the Bose if I have to).

    And if that's the case, Mazda and Ford can wonder where at least one sale went while I tool around in a 2004 Grand Prix GTP or an 2004 Impala SS (both due in the next six months) for significantly more money, but equipped just as any reasonable person would equip them.

    Why can't Mazda realise that for some people sunroofs and leather are each dealbreakers? I don't want either. I don't care if you pay me to take them, I do NOT want them. Every single day I owned the car, I would resent their presence. I once owned a car with leather and I hated the thing every single day I drove it. All it took was sitting in that seat and knowing it COULD have been cloth (actually, it couldn't have been. A pseudo-luxury car, leather was standard. The next year, GM allowed buyers to substitute cloth as a no cost option).

    Therefore, I will NOT buy a car with leather or a sunroof. Period. It is not a matter for negotiation. I would sooner drive a five year old car with 100,000 miles on it than a new car with options I despise. And I am NOT alone.

    Mazda lost a 1992 626 sale to me in just this way. I am NOT forfeiting ABS or available side airbags to not get a sunroof or leather I will not accept. Instead, I will walk away. Ten years later, they are STILL packaging cars the same. You shouldn't have to take options that are unacceptable to a substantial portion of buyers in order to get what was in 1992 cutting edge safety (ABS) or in 2002 the same (side airbags).

    But Mazda DOES have the wrong-headed notion that they can extort buyers to accept options they do NOT want in order to get options they feel they must have, safety options at that. Perhaps this is one reason their sales are lower than the big Japanese companies. (Not to even mention the dread with which many of you approach a Mazda containing major Ford parts and assemblies, say, for instance, transmissions or Duratec engines)

    When will Mazda "get" it?
  • capitanocapitano Member Posts: 509
    and may make me want to look elsewhere. OTOH, was it not already theorized that the packaging rules would loosen up later in the model year? I'm more interested in the wagon than the sedan anyway. Maybe they will make it easier when the wagon arrives.
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    I tried to build a 6i 5spd. I only wanted:

    ABS
    Spoiler
    Sunroof
    Alloy wheels

    I am willing to forget about the alloys or sunroof, but ABS and the spoiler MUST stay.

    Apparently I MUST chose the BOSE package, then select Leather, then the heated seats package, then I'll get 16" alloys. But to get ABS, the sunroof or a spoiler, I MUST add the Sport package too.

    I hope I'm making a mistake when selecting options. Otherwise the 4cyl 5spd cannot be built at all, unless you don't want anything extra, not even ABS. I got pop-ups asking me that ABS requires all 3 packages to be added. Hope it's just a mistake...

    Can anyone clarify this for me?

    I mean on the Protege, it's pretty clear:

    You can get ABS or a spoiler as a stand-alone options.

    Dinu
  • taddisontaddison Member Posts: 99
    It's not a mistake, what you are seeing matches the configuration options that I posted on behalf of audi8q a few weeks back.

    However, if you are in Canada then you may well have a different set of configuration choices than the USA. I seem to remember someone posting that ABS is standard in Canada.

    I agree that the choices for the 5 speeds suck. Automatic versions are much more flexible. I am waiting for the hatch or maybe the wagon so hopefully they will unbundle some of the options as they have now done for the P5. If not, the P5 is what I'll end up buying...
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    $26,860

    6s with Sport Pkg., BOSE Pkg., Comfort Pkg., automatic, side airbags, leather, power roof, cassette player, wheel locks, and alarm shock sensor upgrade.

    Almost $28K for a family sedan? That's the reason I didn't like the Altima. At least the 6 looks the part inside though.

    Prices are just about in Passat territory, and VW doesn't make you buy anything you don't want.
  • azstanazstan Member Posts: 74
    In earlier information about the 6...I thought that a DVD based navigation system would be available. This does not seem to be the case...at least in the configuration options availble at their WEB site.

    Anyone have any information about availablity of navigation?

    I also agree concerning configuration options...they suck!
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    Yes, ABS is std in Canada, but we are not getting this car until late January, so in the meantime I played with the US site. I can't believe these choices. It's ridiculous: why do I need a BOSE stereo to get ABS or a spoiler? Where's the connection? I don't get it. I never had a car w/ABS, but I will definitely look for one w/this option for my next car - I find it helpful in rain not to lock up. Looks like another Altima to me: if you want anything, it's going to be at the higher end of the Accord V6 territory: not what I'm ready to pay.

    Well, on the bright side, I still have my PRO :)

    Dinu
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    navigation is expected to appear next year.

    and to some others...stop your whining about the packages...but i'm glad thats all you can whine about at this point. haha.
    I guess it makes sense to buy a whole different car because of one or two options you must take. sheeeeezzz.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I don't think it's fair for a manufacturer to push something down a consumer's throat. And some people will go to another brand if they can't get exactly what they want. I don't blame them, I would as well.

    And this business of having to buy a handful of options to get safety features is total CRAP. I could see having to get BOSE to get the leather, but not having to get a worthless (to some people) feature to get a safety feature. That's messed up.
  • taddisontaddison Member Posts: 99
    I can see that limiting the option combinations would simplify production, which makes sense when they are trying to churn out a whole bunch of cars to stock dealers for a launch. Hopefully, once the initial rush is done they can relax the rules.

    Also, when people say that VW's and other European makes can be ordered any way you like, that's because almost all new cars in Europe are special ordered and the factories are designed to handle that. Dealers generally don't carry much stock other than demos.

    On the other hand, I don't think Mazda has chosen the initial combinations very well. In particular, I think that tying the purchase of safety options to the purchase of luxury options is very bad policy.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    You would think Mazda would be more flexible with option packages considering that they are the underdog, and are trying to bring in new customers. Flexibility would be one more way to distance themselves (in a good way) from Accord and Camry.

    Given that Mazda is pushing the sporty nature of this car, and that many consider the manual 4-cyl model to be the most sporty (after all you are steering every minute that you are driving the car, but only occasionally accelerating) you would think they would not be so stubborn in letting customers option that model.

    This has been done before by VW. They were dead in the water and considering leaving the US market. They then came out with a car that handled better than the competition, and had a soul. Sound familiar? They also let you build it exactly how you want it (that did take a few years though, so maybe Mazda will see the light)

    We all know Mazda can do it. I am sure that in Europe you can get a 6 exactly how you want it, then why not here?
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    "I am sure that in Europe you can get a 6 exactly how you want it, then why not here?"

    We are forgeting "zee rulez" far to quickly. Bringing an attractive good handling car for a good price to market might seem logical to us, but the car gods... now they have other plans (So I'll put you down for the BOSE pkg, leather pkg, Sport pkg, then you may add am ashtray to store your change, for the limited time offer of only $235!).

    AUDIA8Q: I still like the 6 and for once, just once, ABS is standard in Canada, so I will (hopefully) have no problems, but what about the US market that is 10x larger?

    Dinu
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    must have been some Wharton grad driving a Lexus....and thinking in the air....feet off the ground....and how to make the most money with the least effort :(
  • stragerstrager Member Posts: 308
    I've said this before: All these different packages and options would have been OK if Mazda was going to sell 400K sedans every year like the Accord or Camry.

    Mazda should offer a true build-to-order system, like they do in Japan. If that's not possible, I think they would be better off adopting the simpler Honda plan (DX,LX, and EX without any options). If the options are configured to meet the REAL wants of 80% of 6 customers, it might help sell more cars by making a particular configuration easier to find, while lowering manufacturing costs. But of course that would mean less busy work for the MBAs at Mazda NA who are devising these packages.

    It sounds like Mazda is trying to emulate Toyota. Toyota's strategy always has been: Let's see, how many options can we screw and confuse the customer with?
  • coakleysdcoakleysd Member Posts: 32
    In order to get a 6i with the sports package (17" wheels), you have to get the Premium Package with 16" wheels, comfort package, moonroof, and leather. Now what the hell am I going to do spending an additinal $800 for 16" wheel if I'm also spending $860 for 17" wheels?
  • zeongzeong Member Posts: 31
    I'm sure Mazda is going to get busy today with all the e-mails they get regarding the bundle package ordering system. For those who complains about the package, please e-mail to MUSA@mazdausa.com and let them know how screw up it is.
  • coakleysdcoakleysd Member Posts: 32
    Just got off the phone with Mazda. I brought this to heir attention and they are looking into the blunder. Their products and marketing group will be reviewing the package options. We may see some changes!!!!!!!
    Keep your fingers crossed.

    Stafford.
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