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Comments
Also, remember that the 626 shared Ford parts in the beginning of its life, which failed (trannies, mainly). So that brought it's score down. Hopefully Ford's hand in the 6 (limited as it may be) won't show in the way it usually does.
Time well-spent IMO.
I have a coworker who bought a '94 Protege that had recurrent problems with the computer that controls everything. Eventually, Mazda replaced it free with a '95 model. I thought it was impressive that they acknowledged that there was a problem. One thing I've heard about Taurus transmissions is that Ford never really fixed the problem or admitted it. Maybe that's changed. Getting back to the 6, it seems like the 626 has been pretty reliable and was made in Flat Rock, so if the 6 doesn't have a Ford transmission, it should be pretty solid.
There is a simple and compelling reason for this...the 93?-99? Escort was built by Mazda and had Ford design cues. It was basically a worked over Protege.
So Ford can take Mazda's design and engineering and turn it into an above-average reliable car, but when they try to build a car themselves, it is consistently below-average in reliability.
Mazda builds their own car with NO Ford input (Protege, Miata), and it is consistly rated above average in reliability.
Mazda takes Ford's design and engineering and gives it a Mazda makeover, (Tribscape, Mazda Pickup), and it consistently ranks below average in reliability.
Mazda uses Ford engine block (MPV, future Mazda6) and the MPV is consistently rated above-average in reliability (even beating Honda).
And there are those who say that Imports are not more reliable than domestics. Mazda builds very reliable cars, but Ford only has to get its fingers in the build process farther than an engine block and suddenly it is in the black reliability wise.
Dinu
The '91-03 Escort, Tracer and ZX2 are all on that same Mazda platform. Additionally, the '87-90 Tracer was on the Mazda 323 platform, I think. All of those are indeed pretty good cars judging from what I've seen and heard; better than the average Ford, anyway.
-Andrew L
==================================================
Mazda is excited about the release of the Mazda 6. Like you, we are
all
in anticipation of hearing about actual set pricing. Pricing is
tentatively set as follows:
Base Model- nicely equipped starting at $19,000.
Fully Loaded- all the bells and whistles, up to $27,000.
Along with the suspense, we are still waiting for the configuration
paperwork and the available accessories that can be added to the
vehicle. Keep checking the website because it won't be long now.
On second thought, they do have the options on their site, we just know that it's likely not finalized.
Or at the very least, have the final window stickers sent in a FedEx to be applied by the dealer before they go on sale.
TB
Yikes. I know once a few options are tossed on any car, the tag soars, but I was hoping to see the four come in around $17k to start...guess I am dreaming. Kind of puts the VWs back into play, IMO and makes the Nissans more price competitive. I know the 6 isn't an "entry-level" vehicle, but a base 4-cylinder at $19 approaches Passat/Audi A4 territory. Hope they are coming with the cars set on "stunning."
They can print the stickers at the dealer, right.
I think they generally do print the stickers at the dealer, or at least let the dealer print the final prices. That is how some dealers can add in their little extras. Not sure about all that, but I do recall several people talking about ADM fees on their stickers (which is a cute hide for "additional dealer mark-up").
At $19k base...it makes the bottom feeders (like me at the moment) a little less excited. Suddenly, the Protege Mazdaspeed looks a little more enticing. Might just hold onto my money, and my 318 and see what 2004 brings to market. And at $27k loaded, you are directly stomping around in IS300 and G35 territory...not friendly company for a performance-orientated enthusiast.
Hmmm...most disappointing news I have heard to date about the 6 release. Maybe I was just being too optimistic.
Then again, you said you weren't certain. In that case, your assumption is incorrect. MSRP stickers are the MANUFACTURER'S suggested retail price, not some fantasy dreamed up by a dealer. Most dealers are good, honest competent people trying to make a buck.
Just checked in on the price spread for the Accord. Looks like Mazda is in the right neighborhood. Guess I was just hoping it would be a few less coins.
Silly flat economy.
You are right in that respect. There will be no "stripper" Mazda 6. Look at the equipment on the base 6i, they're comparable to the Accord LX, not the DX.
This reminds me of the base model 2002 Altima with no AC or radio, only offered so they could advertise a really low starting price. haha
"This reminds me of the base model 2002 Altima with no AC or radio, only offered so they could advertise a really low starting price. haha"
Yeah, they did that again for 2003. Not only does it come with no A/C or radio, but they cannot even be ordered as options. That really should be outlawed as a deceptive advertising practice. What's next, $10K for one with no wheels and the doors welded shut? I bet they have not built one single "base model" 02-03 Altima yet. Ridiculous.
-Andrew L
Base MSRPs:
MAZDA6 i $19,050
Key features include:
2.3L DOHC 4-cylinder engine with variable valve timing (VVT)
4-wheel disc brakes
AM/FM/CD audio system with six speakers
MAZDA6 s $21,620
Key features include:
3.0L DOHC V6 engine with variable valve timing (VVT)
Anti-lock brake system (ABS)
16-inch alloy wheels
Fully automatic climate control system
Look into the link for more!
Considering the car dates back to 1986 and was #1 for a while, the chances of seeing one broke down are high. BTW, the Duratec dates to 1996, so any pre 1996 would not have a Duratec and the comparison to the 6 motor is moot.
Trim
MAZDA6 s
Transmission
5-Speed Manual
Engine
3.0L DOHC 24-valve 6- cylinder engine with Variable Valve Timing (VVT)
Premium Package, Comfort Package, BOSE® Audio Package, Sport Package, Anti-Lock Brakes/Traction Control, Power Moonroof, Leather-Trimmed Upholstery, Side Air Bags/Side Air Curtains, All-Weather Floor Mats, Aluminum Fuel Filler Door (Bright Chrome), Cargo Net, Cargo Organizer and Tray, In-Dash 6-Disc CD Changer, Wheel Locks, Rear Mudguards, Alarm Shock Sensor Upgrade, Chrome Appearance Package, Cassette Player, Compass/AutoDim Mirror with Homelink
I agree, this packaging sucks. I guess we were warned :-/
Plus, a four equipped even REMOTELY the way I want it ends up costing me more than TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS more than the six.
The six exists, according to the configurator, exactly as I want it equipped. Now I bet you anything from a dollar to a toupee that when I go to the dealer, Mazda will be unable to build the car as I want it (standard ABS, optional Side airbags, but: NO leather, NO sunroof, and preferably no Bose but I can live with the Bose if I have to).
And if that's the case, Mazda and Ford can wonder where at least one sale went while I tool around in a 2004 Grand Prix GTP or an 2004 Impala SS (both due in the next six months) for significantly more money, but equipped just as any reasonable person would equip them.
Why can't Mazda realise that for some people sunroofs and leather are each dealbreakers? I don't want either. I don't care if you pay me to take them, I do NOT want them. Every single day I owned the car, I would resent their presence. I once owned a car with leather and I hated the thing every single day I drove it. All it took was sitting in that seat and knowing it COULD have been cloth (actually, it couldn't have been. A pseudo-luxury car, leather was standard. The next year, GM allowed buyers to substitute cloth as a no cost option).
Therefore, I will NOT buy a car with leather or a sunroof. Period. It is not a matter for negotiation. I would sooner drive a five year old car with 100,000 miles on it than a new car with options I despise. And I am NOT alone.
Mazda lost a 1992 626 sale to me in just this way. I am NOT forfeiting ABS or available side airbags to not get a sunroof or leather I will not accept. Instead, I will walk away. Ten years later, they are STILL packaging cars the same. You shouldn't have to take options that are unacceptable to a substantial portion of buyers in order to get what was in 1992 cutting edge safety (ABS) or in 2002 the same (side airbags).
But Mazda DOES have the wrong-headed notion that they can extort buyers to accept options they do NOT want in order to get options they feel they must have, safety options at that. Perhaps this is one reason their sales are lower than the big Japanese companies. (Not to even mention the dread with which many of you approach a Mazda containing major Ford parts and assemblies, say, for instance, transmissions or Duratec engines)
When will Mazda "get" it?
ABS
Spoiler
Sunroof
Alloy wheels
I am willing to forget about the alloys or sunroof, but ABS and the spoiler MUST stay.
Apparently I MUST chose the BOSE package, then select Leather, then the heated seats package, then I'll get 16" alloys. But to get ABS, the sunroof or a spoiler, I MUST add the Sport package too.
I hope I'm making a mistake when selecting options. Otherwise the 4cyl 5spd cannot be built at all, unless you don't want anything extra, not even ABS. I got pop-ups asking me that ABS requires all 3 packages to be added. Hope it's just a mistake...
Can anyone clarify this for me?
I mean on the Protege, it's pretty clear:
You can get ABS or a spoiler as a stand-alone options.
Dinu
However, if you are in Canada then you may well have a different set of configuration choices than the USA. I seem to remember someone posting that ABS is standard in Canada.
I agree that the choices for the 5 speeds suck. Automatic versions are much more flexible. I am waiting for the hatch or maybe the wagon so hopefully they will unbundle some of the options as they have now done for the P5. If not, the P5 is what I'll end up buying...
6s with Sport Pkg., BOSE Pkg., Comfort Pkg., automatic, side airbags, leather, power roof, cassette player, wheel locks, and alarm shock sensor upgrade.
Almost $28K for a family sedan? That's the reason I didn't like the Altima. At least the 6 looks the part inside though.
Prices are just about in Passat territory, and VW doesn't make you buy anything you don't want.
Anyone have any information about availablity of navigation?
I also agree concerning configuration options...they suck!
Well, on the bright side, I still have my PRO
Dinu
and to some others...stop your whining about the packages...but i'm glad thats all you can whine about at this point. haha.
I guess it makes sense to buy a whole different car because of one or two options you must take. sheeeeezzz.
And this business of having to buy a handful of options to get safety features is total CRAP. I could see having to get BOSE to get the leather, but not having to get a worthless (to some people) feature to get a safety feature. That's messed up.
Also, when people say that VW's and other European makes can be ordered any way you like, that's because almost all new cars in Europe are special ordered and the factories are designed to handle that. Dealers generally don't carry much stock other than demos.
On the other hand, I don't think Mazda has chosen the initial combinations very well. In particular, I think that tying the purchase of safety options to the purchase of luxury options is very bad policy.
Given that Mazda is pushing the sporty nature of this car, and that many consider the manual 4-cyl model to be the most sporty (after all you are steering every minute that you are driving the car, but only occasionally accelerating) you would think they would not be so stubborn in letting customers option that model.
This has been done before by VW. They were dead in the water and considering leaving the US market. They then came out with a car that handled better than the competition, and had a soul. Sound familiar? They also let you build it exactly how you want it (that did take a few years though, so maybe Mazda will see the light)
We all know Mazda can do it. I am sure that in Europe you can get a 6 exactly how you want it, then why not here?
We are forgeting "zee rulez" far to quickly. Bringing an attractive good handling car for a good price to market might seem logical to us, but the car gods... now they have other plans (So I'll put you down for the BOSE pkg, leather pkg, Sport pkg, then you may add am ashtray to store your change, for the limited time offer of only $235!).
AUDIA8Q: I still like the 6 and for once, just once, ABS is standard in Canada, so I will (hopefully) have no problems, but what about the US market that is 10x larger?
Dinu
Mazda should offer a true build-to-order system, like they do in Japan. If that's not possible, I think they would be better off adopting the simpler Honda plan (DX,LX, and EX without any options). If the options are configured to meet the REAL wants of 80% of 6 customers, it might help sell more cars by making a particular configuration easier to find, while lowering manufacturing costs. But of course that would mean less busy work for the MBAs at Mazda NA who are devising these packages.
It sounds like Mazda is trying to emulate Toyota. Toyota's strategy always has been: Let's see, how many options can we screw and confuse the customer with?
Keep your fingers crossed.
Stafford.