Mazda6 Sedan

focusmatt2 · October 2001

Does anyone know if the Mazda 6 is based on the Mondeo platform?

ashutoshsm · October 2001

AFAIK

vocus · October 2001

I hope the Mazda 6 is alot more promising than the current 626 is. I have a Protege now, but will probably upgrade to a larger car next time around (about 4 years or so), and I hope the 6 can sway me to it when it's time to replace the Pro.

focusmatt2 · October 2001

that's not good! The Mondeo platform is awesome

ateixeira · October 2001

Saw a baby Jag in person for the first time and they are gorgeous! That's based on the Mondeo platform.

Remember, the Contour was heavily watered down. The Mondeo, even the old one, was successful in Europe.

Still, glad to see Mazda went on its own for the platform. More choices.

The wider track and the 219hp sound good.

-juice

ashutoshsm · October 2001

is prolly the reason they stayed away from the Mondeo platform. And the age of that platform! The new 6 should have better handling and cornering abilities, judging from the specs of the platform (decent wheelbase, wider track)

In another discussion, or in a magazine/website - it was mentioned that the platform and engine for future Ford, Volvo, Mazda (and jag?) cmopact-midsized sedans would be made by Mazda. VERY smart move, IMHO - despite how good people think the Mondeo is :-)

I just hope they bring the wagon, and also combine the 6 cylinder with a manual transmission - otherwise a lot of people (including me) won't be interested!

focusmatt2 · October 2001

Oh, come now!

the Mondeo platform was all new for 2000 and is considered the class-leading FWD midsized sedan in terms of ride and handling.

I'm quite aware of the Contour, as I have lived in Europe, and it wasn't watered down except for three things:

the suspension was heavily modified;
the rear taillights were different
the interior was different in the fascia

Mazdas are great cars, but their midsized platforms have usually been mushy. The Millenia / Xedos 9 was fairly boring to drive, and the current 626 even worse. The last generation 626 was better in terms of firmer springs.

The Mondeo platform is about as advanced as front wheel drive cars get except for the Mini, the modified Ford Puma chassis, and perhaps the Alfa Romeo 147.

ateixeira · October 2001

The US variants may have been a little mushy, but Japan has always had more interesting cars built off the same platform. It's the suspension tuning, watered down for US buyers. Same for the Contour.

The current 626 was designed in cost cutting times. I agree the previous gen was better (we own one, and have had new-gen loaners that aren't as good).

The new Mondeo looks good, but it is a bit narrow and small for the US market.

-juice

focusmatt2 · October 2001

It is not too narrow and small for the US market.

It's handily larger than a Jetta and interior-wise is the same size as a Passat and a Legacy.

It's too narrow and small as a Taurus replacement, but that kind of phrase makes us sound like we only drive Cadillac Fleewoods. The Mondeo is a tad larger than the current-gen 626 and it is a great machine... there's a lot of word-to-mouth demand for this car in the US market and it could theoretically do very well.

Remember when they said that the Focus would be another world car failure? The Focus and Mondeo are similar vehicles in their design, handling and market intentions (Golf and Passat competitors) .

Wait and see is my belief...

ateixeira · October 2001

Yeah, but Ford buyers are different than VW and Subaru buyers. They expect more space, bigger cars.

IMO the reason the Contour failed was its tight interior quarters. That plus they watered down the handling, so it wasn't the small, sporty sedan that was popular in Europe.

Focus is an excellent counterpoint, but check out the inside - it's roomy for its class, probably more roomy than the bigger Contour was.

-juice

regfootball · October 2001

Mondeo is as large or larger than Passat. Larger than Galant, and others. If sold as a Sable, it doesnt need to be the size people expect of a Taurus.

My wife wants a car sized between a Taurus (too big for her and her daily commute, she wants something smaller and lighter...more nimble) and the Prizm she is driving now.

The Saturn L is the perfect size for her. I also see a Passat and Stratus as the right size for her. I really want the Saturn for her, but I'm hedging on the price. But the size is right.

In fact, also for her the Contour would be perfect even if the beck seat is not long enough.

Remember guys, its not always length...its the width that matters...........................................and the Contour seems to be close to ok in the width dept.

So anyways, if the Mondeo/ Sable is equal to the Passat and Saturn L in interior space......and its most likely larger, than the size of it is fine.

The new Mazda 6 looks to be a perfect size also.

regfootball · October 2001

a lot of domestic cars are fat.......

i.e. the car may be wider and larger but may not have as much interior space. GM cars in particular chew up a lot of length and width but then return it in feeble interior space for their girth.....(Bonneville, Aurora, Regal....on and on).

diploid · October 2001

"Remember guys, its not always length...its the width that matters"

We're talking about cars, right? *teehee*

iusecad · October 2001

Mazda is gonna call it the 5 1/2?

ashutoshsm · October 2001

The Ford Contour's twin was the Mercury Mystique - the Mercury Sable is a twin of the Ford Taurus (both butt-ugly and oversized cars, IMHO, but with a decent powerplant!)

gerapau · October 2001

ateixeira: I am not quite sure where you get the idea that the Contour's handling was watered down for the North American market. The SE's handling was considered by many as better then most other 4 door American sedans while the SVT was often described as the poor man's BMW. The editors here at Edmunds stated "the Contour SE handles better than many sport coupes" while the SVT "was as perfect as anyone could expect for a sports sedan stickering under $23,000". In fact, I can't remember ever hearing a bad review when it came to the Contour's handling.

focusmatt2 · October 2001

Its steering was basically unchanged, but the chassis was softer.

ateixeira · October 2001

I test drove an SE V6, and it was OK, nothing special, IMHO. I've rented 4 bangers and they weren't as good. Most were rentals and fleet cars, remember.

Even the SVT was "fixed" after the first year, with some fine tuning that made it a lot better, IIRC.

-juice

vocus · October 2001

I found the Contour, as well as the current 626, too small inside. I tried a 626 when I went to get my Protege, and the Pro felt bigger inside. Also, the 626 and Contour have this closed-in feeling to me (I am 6'3), so I wasn't interested. I hope the 6 isn't like that. I can't wait until they come out, because they sound very promising. I just hope it's not riddled with recalls at first like previous cars have been including the Tribute. Of course, Mazda has more of a hand in this one too, so it might be ok.

tomcat630 · October 2001

The USA Mazda 6 is supposed to be made in Flat Rock MI, and supposedly a Ford variant will be produced. So, I believe that we will never see any new cars based on the 2001 Mondeo.

Also, in blueovalnews.com , they say that the 6 is wider than most mid size cars.

diploid · October 2001

I think they're reserving the Mondeo platform for the Mercury division.

ateixeira · October 2001

The Protege is scooped out inside to make it feel bigger than it is. Our 626 is a little cozy, but reasonably sized. Cargo space is tight, though, so I'd prefer a 6 wagon.

Hey, speak of the devil, I saw a Euro-spec Mondeo wagon yesterday! Brand new! Must have been a diplomat's car. The rear looks like a Volvo V70 but edgier. The front is ugly though, especially the grille and headlights, yuck.

I am anxiously awaiting the chance to see the Mazda 6 in person. Looks great on paper and in photos.

-juice

danny25 · October 2001

A couple of months ago when I was on a long highway drive I saw a Mondeo too. I love cars so when I get bored while driving on the highway I just watch the oncoming traffic. At first I thought I was just mistaking it for something else, but as it got closer and passed, sure enough it was a Mondeo.

ateixeira · October 2001

I work in DC, so once in a while I see rather odd looking cars, and eventually figure out they are Euro imports, usually with diplomatic plates (red/white/blue with "D" or "S" as the first character).

I've seen a diesel Discovery, a few Peugoets, some Citroens, even a Renault or two.

-juice

stebu · October 2001

Ahhh... the mere mention of the SVT Contour brings a lump to my throat. Superlative, albiet a bit stiff, handling. The engine provided a lag free rush of power and was mated to a very pleasing 5-spd. If one liked the regular Contours looks, the SVT package just made it look more menacing without overdoing it. And, without a doubt, it had the sweetest sounding exhaust note this side of an M3. But, the interior was a bit cramped with a late '80s look and feel. At the time, the car was just a bit too single minded (excusable) and crude (not so excusable) in its execution for my taste. Still, I must admit that I almost sprang for one before they stopped producing them last year.

I know the Mazda 6 will be and should be a very different type of car. However, it would not be a bad thing, at all, if it (or any car) were to replicate some of the SVT Contours better points.

rayyee · October 2001

The new Mazda6 is a VERY handsome car! I think
the fact that it's more focused toward performance
than the Camry or Accord should help it sell well
in the market place, even though it seems smaller
than it's rivals.

diploid · October 2001

I think it balances power with comfort, like the Accord and Camry. That is why I don't see too many new Altimas on the road while the Camrys are already starting to fill the streets.

No one wants a 240hp car whose interior looked as if it was designed by Rubber-Maid.

ateixeira · October 2001

Rubber Maid makes some high quality stuff. ;-)

-juice

ashutoshsm · October 2001

For the fridge, not your garage!

sross · October 2001

A couple posters mentioned an interest in AWD on the Mazda 6. I see that, at least in Japan, stability control is offerred as an option. I own an AWD car, but it I've been thinking that stability control is superior. AWD gives you traction when going up a slippery surface, and to some degree limits skidding by distributing the torque over 4 wheels instead of 2. I also imagine that it cuts down on a FWD car's understeer or torque steer. But it really doesn't have any affect on fishtailing, which seems to be a much bigger problem (come see the collection of 4WD SUVs on the side of Colorado's I-70 this winter if you doubt me).
AWD is also heavy. A recent A4 review mentioned that the FWD felt more sprightly than the quattro.
So it seems like stability control gives more all-around safety while making for a car that's more fun to drive. Any thoughts?

ashutoshsm · October 2001

http://www.mazdausa.com/autoshow/

The RX-8 and Mazda 6 as shown at the Tokyo Auto Show are on this page. Take a peek!

Sedan in 'Early 2003', Wagon 'May be introduced' and Hatchback is 'a future project'. Hmmm.

diploid · October 2001

You guys are right, Rubber Maid tupper-wares are durable. Perhaps Nissan really did think about the interior.

csuftitans · October 2001

Responding to milleniaman1's take on Mazda's cancelled Amati division (#35)

"Mazda was going to start its own Luxury division called Amati...the Millenia was going to be the flagship sedan."

Actually, the Millenia was supposed to be their entry level car for the Amati division. They already designed and test their much bigger flagsip car, which was going to have a V12 in it.

To me, the name is kinda lame anyway, Amati. They should've do what they did in Australia, have a luxury division called "Eunos"; it was pretty successful when I was there.

fwatson · October 2001

Quote csuftitans:

"Actually, the Millenia was supposed to be their entry level car for the Amati division. They already designed and test their much bigger flagsip car, which was going to have a V12 in it."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From a Car and Driver comparison test:

BY BROCK YATES
Photography By AARON KILEY
February 2000

"Going into this evaluation, few if any of us expected the Millenia would score high among this group. After all, it has been around since 1995, and for the past two years its price has been slashed by $4000 to $6600 (along with some feature content) to bring it into line with its Lexus and Infiniti competition (the car was originally intended to anchor Mazda's stillborn luxury Amati Division). At least our S-model tester retained its small but strapping 2.3-liter Miller-cycle DOHC V-6. It employs delayed intake-valve closing and a supercharged and intercooled induction system to produce 210 hp. This setup permitted our Millenia S Millennium Edition test car to tie the Infiniti I30t for best EPA highway fuel mileage at 28 mpg (although it trailed its unblown 227-hp, 3.0-liter rival by a half-second to 60 mph, proving once again that there is no substitute for cubic inches)."

----------------------------------------------------------------
csuftitans,

You may be right, but Car and Driver doesn't agree with you. I have also read that the 929 was to have been the original Amati flagship, but was replaced by the Millenia. Of course Amati got dropped in the mid '90's because the market was down and Mazda couldn't afford to build the dealership network. At that point the Millenia was made the top of the line Mazda.

Google "amati mazda" if you want to see all the possible answers to the Amati discussion.

ateixeira · October 2001

AWD will reduce any tendency to skid, though. That's because you split the burden of applying power to 4 tires instead of 2, so you are less likely to exceed the limit of available traction.

RWD tends to fish tail if you either apply too much power in a turn. FWD would tend to understeer, but you still lose traction. Stability or traction control will constantly slow either FWD or RWD down by applying brakes.

It's funny because I own one of each, all with all season tires. The Miata (RWD) is bad even in rain, never mind snow. It has no weight on the driven tires and offers little protection, so I park it.

Our 626 (FWD) is fair, but in snow you have to drive rather deliberately. Accelerate in a turn and it will not complete the turn - instead understeering right off the road. We do not have traction control (not available back in 1995).

Finally, our Forester (AWD) is great in snow because it offer both the ground clearance and the traction to get around. There is really no comparison. It's fun where the others are scary.

Traction and stability control would help any of the above systems, but I'd still take AWD over FWD with that technology, no contest. Better yet, give me AWD and stability control.

-juice

csuftitans · October 2001

If Millenia was supposed to anchor the Amati division, then it would not be a good luxury division.

I remember reading a couple of magazine back in '92 or '93 that the Millenia is supposed to be the entry level car for Amati Div (one of the magazine is either C&D or R&T). I even saw a camouflage picture of the bigger top of the line car. I also remembered that they are testing both a V8 and a V12 for the car.

Also, check this out:

First, some background about Project MX-08, Eunos 800 and Xedos 8. All are names for the car you can see in Mazda showrooms badged as the Millenia.

Project MX-08 was the code name around Mazda when the Millenia was conceived as the entry car in the now-defunct Amati luxury line.

Amati was intended to compete against Toyota's Lexus division, Nissan's Infiniti and Honda's Acura.

But in the early part of this decade the global economy went sour and Mazda almost went broke.

So Mazda scrapped plans for Amati, but not for the Millenia -- nor for the Eunos 800 as its known in Japan and the Xedos 8 in Europe.

On this continent, the Millenia S, first introduced in 1994, sits at the top of the Mazda range.

from:

http://www.carclickbc.com/carclick/articles/3309159.html

I am surprised that an editor of huge car magazine like Car and driver would say something that. He must be drunk :-)

Anyway, I've been following Mazda since I was a teenager; I'm 27 now. So I know most of the stuff happening with Mazda, here in the US and abroad.

BTW, Mazda 6 is definitely in our family's list for things to get in 2002; either sedan, wagon, or hatchback.

storyteller · October 2001

The TV show "Autoweek" just did a teaser intro on the Mazda 6. They said with no qualifications that it would come to the US as a sedan and wagon, with a hatchback as a possible later entry.

ateixeira · October 2001

Was it Motorweek? I didn't know Autoweek had a TV show.

-juice

alpha01 · October 2001

wouldnt this mean to be the bottom rung model (think about it, anchors are at the BOTTOM of the body of water)? by calling the Millenia the would-be anchor, I'm pretty sure Yates meant that it would be the entry level model. So in that case, he is correct, and doesnt need to get his source checked out.
how did this topic get started? back to the 6 (which is the most ridiculous name EVER, especially for an auto that looks so awesome).
~alpha

ashutoshsm · October 2001

Someone just posted this on the Protege board ...

(More specs, more details about a bunch of different Mazda vehicles and engines in the works, and videos of many of them in motion - including the Atenza, or Mazda 6, as it will be known here)

Concept cars Mazda's showing in Tokyo:

http://www.mazda.co.jp/motorshow/english/concept/index.html

This site highlights their new engines:

http://www.mazda.co.jp/motorshow/english/tech/eng.html

ateixeira · October 2001

The name "6" doesn't bother me, but then do you call the 4 cylinder models the "4"? ;-)

They show some bizarre stuff at Tokyo.

-juice

storyteller · October 2001

Did you get a load of the "Mazda Secret Hideout?" With styling by Playschool. No, the show that claimed to know America gets the sedan and station wagon was Autoweek. It just happened to run right after Motorweek on my TV system. The current Motorweek show featured a rapturous review of the new Altima.

ateixeira · October 2001

http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/47802/page012.html

A little more info, too. The 4 banger will have a pretty impressive 178hp.

I'm not sure I like the interior as much as the exterior. The two tone steering wheel and seats are a little much. And why Pontiac-orange guages?

-juice

vocus · October 2001

I am sure the two-tone steering wheel won't make it to production. Those are usually show-car pieces they use. And my 2001 Protege ES has red lit gauges, and it looks pretty cool. The orange is a little much though. They should use the red from the 2001 ES.

csuftitans · October 2001

alpha01, thanks for clearing that up; I guess I got carried away a bit there :-).

BTW, if you don't like the name "6", how about using Mazda Atenza or Cronos ('93-'97 626 was called Cronos is some part of the world; I kinda like it)

or how about Mazda 6 Series, kinda like BMW? how about Class 6 (classics ???)

In any case, I'm getting one of this 6 series Mazda.

jhoffman61 · October 2001

Anchor the Amati line would mean it is the high-volume product and therefore most important to the success of the division.

Flagship would mean top-of-the-line such as the BMW 7-series or Mercedes S-class.

ateixeira · October 2001

The MP3 has a similar steering wheel, though. I prefer the all-black ones.

I agree - an anchor is the best selling model, the one that pays the bills, so that other, more interesting variants can be offered as well.

So the 626 and Protoge are the anchors, and the new RX is the flagship.

-juice

jjx456 · November 2001

http://www.auto.com/industry/mazda1_20011101.htm

tomcat630 · November 2001

The 6 will be the top of the line Mazda after the Millenia dies off. It was supposed to be the entry "Amati" car.

tiredofmanual · November 2001

I for one plan on buying the hatchback when it makes it over here. I'll take a v6, too. I hope that Mazda has enough sense to offer a manual with that v6. I also hope that said manual is NOT the crappy MTX-75, which happens to be the bane of my existance in my Focus (hence my user name).

Ahh well. Here's a checklist for Mazda of North America to follow:
1. Bring Hatchback to USA
2. Offer manual transmission with V6
3. Don't use MTX-75 transmission
4. If you have to use MTX-75, at least re-engineer it so that it can shift in cold weather. Like, say, the Saturn, Toyota, and Honda manuals in my previous cars.

Mazda6 Sedan

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