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Mazda6 Sedan

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Comments

  • fowler3fowler3 Member Posts: 1,919
    that thing ever got off the water? What is it a sea chicken? Short wings means it can't fly.

    fowler3
  • ruefusruefus Member Posts: 254
    That thing wasn't supposed to fly. It really did take advantage of ground effects, allowing it to skim just off the waves with stub wings at high speed.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    jaclaz,
    I think what gets Pat more upset than being off-topic is calling her a him. :-)

    Now that we got that down pat(shameless pun) can we get back to duratechs?

    Choe,
    I think you are confusing the 3.8 that was used in the taurus, t-bird and older Winstar with the 3.0 Duratech used in the Taurus. Be careful with your facts.
  • dbamacdbamac Member Posts: 6
    to is the stalling issues in Escapes and Tributes. There have been stalling issues with a fairly small number of these vehicles and even happened to a Tribute that one of the mags did a long term test on. As for deaths due to this, I've seen a lot of speculation that someone "could" be killed, but no confirmed fatalities.

    Having said that, the stalling problems have been linked to two causes - issues with the ignition switch and heavy key chains and issues with the ECMs. Given that neither of those components will be shared between the TribScape and the 6, I consider them a non-issue as far as the 6 is concerned.

    BTW - My wife drives a 2001 Tribute and it has been fairly reliable thus far (26K miles). It's only warranty work was the replacement of the ventilation fan which developed a noisy bearing and a faulty power window switch. We've not been included in any of the recalls and have experience none of the problems you read about on the TribScape boards.

    My car is a 98 Millennia S. I agree that the 2.3 MC engine is a nice engine (hooked to a mediocre transmission), but I won't miss the expense involved in its upkeep (high labor cost due to having to move plumbing to get to anything) and the searching for parts when I need to make a simple repair. Being exclusive can be cool, but sometimes it's a pain.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Was losing...Duh. Ford is losing more money per car than any other company right now.
  • tugboat1tugboat1 Member Posts: 21
    I'm trying to locate a loaded up 6s with auto and airbag package. I can't live with the sports package(spoiler not my cup a tea). The local dealer claims you can't get a loaded up car with the airbags and not take the sports package. Claims that they are just not making the car in this configuration. Reality check please.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    The problem with dealer info is that they may just be trying to sell you what they have on the lot, so you can't trust what they say. I would check on www.mazdausa.com to see if your configuration can be built, or email Mazda and ask them.
  • jjpeterjjpeter Member Posts: 230
    They tested the Altima 3.5 V6, Jetta GLI VR6, and the Mazda 6s.

    Bottom line - the 6s won.

    On the Altima 3.5 V6; (if white knuckled torque steer is to your liking, this is the car for you.)

    The 6s won on styling, refinement, interior, handling and overall balance.

    Cool!
  • mazdamarlamazdamarla Member Posts: 350
    Where can I see what some other accessories for the 6 look like? I've seen mention of a "sport grille" - is that different from what would come on the car from the dealer? Things like that - where can I see some pics, anyone know?
  • doying5doying5 Member Posts: 83
    NO other shared components but the Block. I even had a guy from the Ford Plant bring me some articles they get from an insider magazine that explained so much about the engine in detail that I get totally lost.

    I could try to dig out these articels at some point if anyone is interested.

    Perhaps the TVM on the 6 is so much lower than I would expect is because the Ford reach into Splan is getting a lot of buyers in on the car.
    The 4 I have sold have been all or nothing (MSRP or Splan)
  • ambullambull Member Posts: 255
    I saw the accessories in a brochure I picked up at a Mazda dealer. If you have them installed at the time you buy the car, they have the same warranty as the rest of the car.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Perhaps the TVM on the 6 is so much lower than I would expect is because the Ford reach into Splan is getting a lot of buyers in on the car.
    The 4 I have sold have been all or nothing (MSRP or Splan)


    In San Diego the 6 is selling for over a grand under MSRP already. I can get a V6 for 2k under msrp without haggling!
  • seafseaf Member Posts: 339
    That the people who are related to car sales (sales personnel) always like to mention how high their cars sell (close to MSRP), and then the consumers always point out how cheap they can get the car in their area... Just an observation...

    Though I tend to believe in the real consumers since they have no financial gain by stating their price in a public forum, whereas the salespeople do have an incentive to inflate the price to make it appear that they are selling like hot cakes. Real supply & demand will tell the truth in the end.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    bluguy...mmmm, base price msrp is $21100 and invoice is $19495 for the 6s. how do you get a 2k discount with a $1605 mark up?

    mazda6...be careful, the mazda website lets you configure a mazda6 in ways that they won't build the car. mazda seems to change the way they build the car every month based upon their projections and sales...this current allocation if the buyer wants side airbags...you can get them as a stand alone option with no other options or you need to take the sport package and Bose package at the minimum....so the dealer was being truthful. dont be so quick to assume the dealer is pulling something.

    I will be glad to fax anyone the this months actual build confgs of the mazda6...just email me your fax numbers and which model and tranny you are interested in.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    bluguy...mmmm, base price msrp is $21100 and invoice is $19495 for the 6s. how do you get a 2k discount with a $1605 mark up?

    A San Diego dealership is giving $1500 off MSRP on the V6 model right off the bat. Add in the $500 graduate discount (I escaped from business school 7 months ago, so I easily qualify) and the car is 2k off msrp.
  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Member Posts: 1,007
    As always, helpful to have you here! You were right on the money with your build options you made available to us in Nov/Dec - the manager at the largest Mazda dealership (upon much convincing and after much arguing) showed me the same list.

    As for prices, "caveat emptor" is the rule to live by. Market values float in a range, and if you get the car you want in that range, I think its better to be happy with it than nitpick every last cent you may have overpaid ;)
  • doying5doying5 Member Posts: 83
    "Though I tend to believe in the real consumers since they have no financial gain by stating their price in a public forum"

    1. How do you know that anyone here is a real consumer?
    2. I believe many people will understate their final price in public. No one wants to be over sold and have the chance some one else will say you paid too much!
    3. I overheard a repeat customer blatantly lie and say he bought his last car from us at invoice.( so of course I looked him up in the computer and low and behold it was not true)
    4. Some buyers lie.
    5. Some sales people lie.
    6. BLUEGUYS statement that you can get $2000 off without even haggling is a perfect example of :"what the other guy paid" syndrome. By neglecting to mention that he/she got $500 in college grad it sounded like the dealer was giving up $2000 when in fact they still had a small profit.
    7. How do I get financial gain on this forum when nobody knows who I am?
    8. Just because someone pays MSRP doesn't mean I wouldn't have considered an offer. Maybe they didn't ask for a discount and were just happy with their traded and the service and the car.

    I think the only place a person can find the truth in a sales type experience is to find someone they connect with that has been recommended and they can trust. Buying a car is hard enough for some. Building a relationship with a good rep can bring years of easy buying:)
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    image


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  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    thanks...
    glad to help.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    Your one of the few that actually understood, the point i was trying to get across. Stalling issue is really a big concern even though you mite be one of the lucky ones with a normal engine. Lets hope idiotic ford engineers have done a better job with the duractec(though still can't be 100 percent trusted, maybe 90 percent)

    I'm sure since you drive a millenia s, and if say you driven the mazda 6, ill bet you can still tell that the millenia s is alot smoother, gives you a cleaner pull even though the millenia s is alot heavier than the mazda 6 with duratec. I do understand that the 2.3L supercharged is alot of pain to fix up(all engines need tuning etc) but dbamac wouldn't you say instead of putting so much effort to twist, and enhance the duratec, do the same for the 2.3L supercharged engine?? I'm sure they could have made it alot more revolutionary(more stable, economic, less problems). I have heard the mini cooper s(which uses a supercharge) is no less expensive to fix than a normal v6 engine, and i'm sure mazda engineers are just as capable as the bmw ones to create or recreate such a type of engine. Its just weird why they would have used the duractec instead(hurts sales).
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    if anyone is writing a comment about mines, what i meant is idiotic ford engineers.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    I really think you don't understand. The tribute stalling is not because of the engine block. It's related to engine management; something that they don't have in common.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    The millenia's engine is a very dirty burning engine and would not meet the next round of federal emissions requirements without a tremendous financial and engineering effort that wasnt in the cards.

    btw..have you looked at the service history of the duratec? It is as good as most anything out there. The Tribute issues are not caused by an engine related problem. If it was the Taurus/Sable and MPV would have the same stalling issues. The duratec engine is nothing to worry about.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I always assume the dealer is being dishonest. I don't. I never assume that what what they tell me is either true OR false, unless I know them or can verify it. And, I'm always polite and professional when talking to a salesperson, though I don't automatically believe everything they say.

    I don't have a FAX, but can you tell me what are the current combos, if my "must haves" are a 6i with manual trans, cloth, and ABS/SAB package? The last info I have is that to get that, I also had to get the Premium package. Thanks.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    ok, i have digested what you have said, and understand. However you have to understand that someone like myself is a little weiry of any products that have the ford label on it. Transmission issues? (it can happen), a plastic component is loose? (it can happen), a engine stalls?? (and they call themselves a car company)?? an engine is the HEART of a car, and that should be one of the top things a company has to build to perfection, no excuses. Ford let their buyers down, and though the issue is over, how can you still trust them ?? The duratec to me is like a "Beta" engine, a chance for ford to redeem themselves. Thats fine, but its still hard for me to give them another chance, without solid reliability proves and good consecutive engines made. i'm sure this is not hard to understand.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    "Transmission issues? (it can happen), a plastic component is loose? (it can happen), a engine stalls?? (and they call themselves a car company)??"

    Honda calls themselves a car company, and I know for sure that they have had at least two of those issues. Tranny issues and stalling issues. I experienced one of them myself first hand. I had an Integra that was affected by a Honda/Acura extended warranty----on the ignitor. My car died while on a freeway on-ramp. Talk about scary. I was still on the ramp, accelerating onto the freeway, when the engine fell flat on it's face. I had it towed to the Acura dealer and had the ignitor replaced under Acura's extended warranty (which means they knew there was a problem with some ignitors).

    Other than that, the car was absolutely excellent. I couldn't have asked for a more reliable car. I sold it to my freind and he quickly racked up the miles doing super long road trips. It now has 160,000 miles on it, original clutch, two timing belts, two water pumps, lots of synthetic oil changes, and that's pretty much it.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    "The millenia's engine is a very dirty burning engine and would not meet the next round of federal emissions requirements without a tremendous financial and engineering effort that wasnt in the cards."

    like i have stated already, i realize this. And also that its expensive to maintain. But why could they have not tried their efforts to fix and improve this, rather than enhancing the duratec(which is from ford)?? even if its more expensive to twist and enhance the 2.3 supercharge, wouldn't you pay 500-700 dolalrs more for an improved supercharged engine that is better than the duratec and on par with the hondas, altimas?

    I do beleive the duratec is holding the 6s down on sales. Not tremedounsly, because it is satisfactory for a v6 engine(i guess), but with someone else better than average, this could have been the one mid size sedan of its class where the v6 actaully sales more than the I4, because it suits its sporty demeanor better. In addition when 6s was tested by the likes of the magazines such as CandD and RandT, this engine caused mazda the title. Other than cost saving, this engine doesn't bring anything worthy to the table .
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    ok your issue is basically a car issue(noone can escape, but with a good car, can avoid)

    Sorry to hear about that tragic incident, but i'm sure your car wasn't at 10k when the engine dropped. Now on the other hand past and current(focus) ford engines rather break and stall whenever they please, rather than understandable breaking from alot of clicks(like 100k)
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    OK, according to choe13 the Mazda engineers are idiots.
    Instead of improving the I4 they have spent their money and talent on the V6.
    And just the fact that it shares its block with the reliable Ford engine will surely make it unreliable.
    OK. We got it.
    Can we please move on.
  • capitanocapitano Member Posts: 509
    all the 6s owner are gonna die when their crappy engines "hault."
  • voochvooch Member Posts: 92
    I personally have not heard or read anything bad about the duratec 3.0. The only negative is the water pump that is used along side it. I think its been around for quite some time too.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Actually, he said that people HAD died when their Duratec engines "haulted." Then, when asked for hard evidence, he demurred.

    I agree, can we please move on?
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    "Instead of improving the I4 they have spent their money and talent on the V6.
    And just the fact that it shares its block with the reliable Ford engine will surely make it unreliable."

    ok first what are you talking about?? i never said anything you have stated above. The I4 is an excellent engine. We are not talking about that engine. What i'm talking about is rather than to fix up the duratec they should have made their homework on the 2.3L supercharged engine. Also where do u go off saying reliable ford engine?? have you not been reading our forum thus far, especially about previous stalling issues regrading it.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    what prove is needed when its logical that when a car haults in a middle of the highway death is highly to occur?? so are you telling me if actually that guy did not die, but he suffered a major injury instaed, then that lets ford engines get off easier??

    The point is, the engine stalled(made by ford) in the middle of the highway, the car going at illegal speeds, and someone could have died.

    Why is there forgiveness than for such engines made by ford let alone motor a car.?? its totally unlogical to me
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    Not knowing the specifics of the case, it is very rare that an engine dies becasue of the traditional "engine" part (the moving parts). These days, it's usually electronic, and my not even be part of the engine (could be ignition, etc.)

    The Duratech has proven to be a durable, reliable engine for the most part. As a former Contique owner, I got used to hearing about the engine and defending it.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    you can defend for it but it still doesn't seem safe. It is after all the next generation v6 ford engine from the previous stalling version.
    Ford is just boneheads to make a mistake like that before. I'm sure the duratech is fine, but it honestly doesn't give me peace of mind still like anything else made by ford.

    so i will live with the 6i(waiting for the hatch) and if i have a need for speed, mate it with a turbocharger, or supercharger kit designed for the mazda 6.
  • fowler3fowler3 Member Posts: 1,919
    Don't buy any car with a Ford engine, then you have nothing to worry about. End of this thread. The rest of the people here will do what is right for them.

    Choe113, I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't lots of things you should have done and/or should be doing, but haven't for financial reasons. Companies are the same way. ;)

    Ford isn't the only bonehead on this planet,if in fact it is.

    fowler3
  • altersysaltersys Member Posts: 56
    And to add a question to this otherwise spicy dialogue, I have a real question!

    Is Mazda taking custom orders yet? Is it possible for me to get exactly what I want with PIO's instead of dealer installed accessories? That is, I want a fully loaded S with AT, and I'd like to get doodads like the homelink mirror and MP3 player. I'd really prefer to have these items installed at "port" rather than at the dealer. Is this possible yet?

    Also, what's the best way to negotiate a price on a custom-ordered car? I would think that waiting two months on a build-to-order car makes you appear less flighty to a dealer than a walk-in purchaser. In this case, is it best to negotiate the price before placing the order? is that even possible?

    thanks,
    -Alt
  • shado4shado4 Member Posts: 287
    ...are the Optitron gauges only available with the Sport package? I don't see the connection. I hate the "boy racer" ground effects package and spoiler, but like the 17" wheels and Optitron gauges.

    I'm also waiting to see when (if) a NAV option will be added.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    duratec is a solid motor. A good one, too. No reason to grouse about it.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    does anybody know if mazda has plans to create its own v6?? or are they slowly fusing with ford regarding every component, where eventually the mazda 6 will be the ford 6??
  • zaimonzaimon Member Posts: 124
    You may have to wait until the new Miata. Motor Trend says that Mazda may put a small displacement v6 in the 2006 Miata (and maybe a new RX-7?) to better compete to the BMW Z4.


    It seems that Mazda is also planning a 3.5l v6 (242 horses, 204 lb. ft. - anyone know if this is another Duratec?) as shown at NAIAS this past weekend. They used it in their Washu prototype (if you ask me, the styling is a huge miss). By the looks of things, Mazda may be adding a large sedan to their lineup. Dare I say Mazda9?


    Another Washu link.


    The Ford/Mazda partnership will mostly yield inline 4 engines, in fact Mazda will be designing all of Ford's i4 engines from now on, the next to be put in the next Protege and Focus.


    Concerning the Duratec engine, while Ford really can't excuse itself for it's relatively poor manufacturing process at some assembly sites, I honestly can't see any merit towards reservations on the Duratec Engine. It's rock solid, I love it in my Tribute and will enjoy the Mazda variant in the 6s! Keep in mind that it's just the Duratec BLOCK in the 6, everything else is Mazda engineered, so, overall, the engine truly is Mazda's. Besides, who else can say they have a sedan who's v6 was designed by Porshe!?

  • kar_nutkar_nut Member Posts: 1
    Regarding the V6 engine choices: Please understand that there is an enormous investment required to build the manufacturing/machining line to produce an engine block. The reason Mazda turned to supercharging the Millenia engine was NOT because it would produce the best drivetrain. It was because the existing block would not support an increase in capacity and the manufacturing line would not support a design that would allow it. The supercharger was a band-aid fix and an expensive one at that. The V6 & supercharger combo probably cost as much as a non-forced V8 and weighed about the same.

    By using the Duratech as the foundation for the '6, it gives Mazda a larger displacement engine at low cost due to the high volume of common blocks being manufactured at the Ford plant. The only thing wrong with the Duratech in its current configurations are the choked off heads that the bean-counters saddled it with. Mazda has addressed that and made a nice engine from it.
  • qddaveqddave Member Posts: 164
    I would like to add my two cents, so please bear with me. I would personally hate to be called a Ford engineer if I worked for Mazda. Point, being, isn't the V6 engine used in the Mazda 6(notice I didn't say Duratec)designed, engineered and manufactured by Mazda, NOT FORD? Save for the block, of course, but there's more to an engine than just a block. Yes, Ford owns a share of Mazda, which makes them one (un)happy family. But that doesn't mean Ford has their greasy little hands on everything. IT'S NOT A FORD ENGINE. Now lets all have a good day.
  • mazdamarlamazdamarla Member Posts: 350
    <sigh> Just saw a decent pic of the Hatchback version over in THAT forum, and now I think I may hold out until they're available here in the States. Which is reported to be either this summer or next December.


    http://www.mazdausa.com/mazda6/images/gallery/mz6_gallery_20.jpg


    My first car, a '79 Capri, was a hatchback, and I remember how much more convenient it was loading and unloading stuff than with a traditional trunk. And my rear seats folded over in that --- I would ASSUME they will fold over in the M6 Hatchback also, like they do in the sedan.

  • meinradmeinrad Member Posts: 820
    The more I look at them the more I think the hatch is 100% better looking than the sedan and would definitely wait.

    It would have been cool to have all 3 at one time.
  • boxfanboxfan Member Posts: 180
    The hatchback and wagon will be out in December. Danto, who is a team leader at the plant, looked up the official release date. The hatchback is supposed to have flat-folding seats (the seat bottom comes forward, I believe). Yeah, I love that particular picture and agree that it's better looking than the sedan. But that's personal preference. From the European specs, the hatchback is only about 80 lb more than the sedan, so there shouldn't be much loss in power and mileage, and a little more weight in the back can only help handling by achieving better front-rear balance. Road noise and a rattling hatch are the possible drawbacks.
  • ambullambull Member Posts: 255
    That was an interesting discussion, with a minimum of name-calling (except the poor Ford engineers). I think we all learned a lot about Mazda engines.
    Choe13, I too prefer the I4, not because I'm afraid of the Duratec, but because the extra weight of the 6s over the 6i has a negative effect on the skidpad and braking. I also might be interested in some kind of power-improver(s) at some future date.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    The 2.3 V6 in the Millenia is a Miller cycle engine, which isn't simply a supercharged V6. It has a different combustion cycle. But you knew that, right?
    If you look at the GM 3800 in the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, now that's a normal V6 with a blower bolted on to give it V8-like performance.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    I hate the drag this on but I can't pass....the MPV which has zoomed ahead of the Honda Oddy minivan in just about every catagory including reliability and customer satisfaction (check the edmund consumer ratings) and they did it with a Ford duratec engine.
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