Mazda6 Wagon

jlasorsa · January 2004

According to my dealer they made their first orders for the wagons and hatch's Dec 12th. They also show my wagon's scheduled build date as 1st week Feb with deliver 4-6 weeks after, which would mean I would get it mid march. I to have been waiting for awhile for this car and I was considering a Sub-wrx but decided to wait to get more car for the money since a base wrx starts off at 25k and my 6-wagon with everything will probably be around 26k. So everytime I look in this 6-wagon discussion I see all these I can't wait for Mazda I'm getting an Audi A6 instead. Heck if you can afford an A-6 what are even looking at a Mazda for. Post 515 if you want a 4-clylinder wagon go with the 6i and put a sunroof in or spend 6-8k more for your Legacy.

johnclineii · January 2004

The Legacy wagon will NOT be 6-8k more than the 6. No way.

regfootball · January 2004

if the rex is already like 28k and the LL current model is over 30, I can see the high power 05 subie wagon being 30+ very easily.

cvt · January 2004

I was at the LA Auto Show yesterday, and the spec sheet next to the wagon said that a 4 cylinder wagon would be available, with both 4 speed auto and 5 speed manual transmissions. The wagon at the show was a 6 cylinder manual. I saw some recent posts implying that there would be no 4 cylinder wagon, but the spec sheet clearly stated that there would be. There was no pricing on the sheet.

regfootball · January 2004

wow........nobody knows for sure, I had heard wagon was 6 cyl. only!

LOL...MAZDA doesn't even know!

dudleyr · January 2004

Legacy wagons are about 19k, the new one won't be much more once the newness wears off. I do fear they will make a sunroof standard though.

I don't want a sunroof, and I don't want a v-6, and I don't want an automatic - so how would adding a sunroof (which I don't want) to a vehicle I don't want (there is no 4-cyl manual tranny wagon according to early reports) make me want it. What exactly does "your Legacy" mean? I have never owned a Subaru.

If I move to a sedan, then the Accord makes more sense for me. More room, better mpg, peppier, handles just about as well (neither handles as well as my Integra so it is a step down either way), and optioned exactly as I want it. As far as looks go I could care less. The Interior is the part of the car that I see, not too concerned about what others see.

The major appeal of the 6 was that a wagon was available. I still may be interested in the Hatch though, as long as I don't need to buy the sport package, or any other packages I would pay more NOT to have.

The Focus could be a wild card, but don't know if I trust it yet.

jlasorsa · January 2004

I misread the part about the sunroof not wanting one makes it even easier. My understanding is the 6-wagon and hatch are going to be same as the sedan as far as options. So figure a 6i sedan is about what the wagon will be my understanding is the pricing will be close to the same. Like I said my wagon should be arriving mid march the hatch's should be hitting the dealers about 2 weeks earlier the according to the build scheduled my dealer got. From what I've look at on Subaru's if you take a base Legacy or Outback you'll be paying more than the base 6i wagon or hatch. If your considering a Mazda 6 of Subaru Legacy why would you even have a FORD Focus as your wild card. Have you look at the Subaru Imprezza base model (not wrx) 18k or the Mazda 3 there's one at my dealer right know decked out with everything its only 22K.

joey2brix · January 2004

for the wagon with the extra weight. Mazda's got the 6 wagon as a niche in the low cost sport wagon in the higher priced BMW/Saab/Volvo group. Few people are buying the current sedan with the 4 cyl, they're piling up at the dealerships. Most 6 wagon photos don't show a moon roof and it didn't sound like it was going to be produced with one in the early batches. If you enjoy a stick as much as I do, why wouldn't you want that sweet V6?

audia8q · January 2004

you say.."Few people are buying the current sedan with the 4 cyl, they're piling up at the dealerships."

so far the 4 cyl only represents 60%+ of the MZ6 sales,...so I don't have any idea what you mean when you say that few people are buying the 4 cyl.

joey2brix · January 2004

and use the search inventory on your local dealers. My nearest Mazda dealer has 27 6i in stock and only 7 6S. Now maybe he's overstocking on the 4cyl. But I don't think that's a good move.

abpelch1 · January 2004

Went to the LA Auto show on Saturday & got to sit in the hatch & wagon. I was really looking forward to the hatch, but after seeing & sitting in it, I'm now settled on the wagon. There is more headroom in the wagon than the hatch or sedan has. My wife's head hit the roof in the back seat of the hatch & she's only 5'7.

There also seems to be more rear legroom in the wagon. Tons of storage in the wagon, but still looks very sporty. 8 tie-down latches & a cargo light in the back. Also very easy to drop the back seats from the cargo area. You just pull what looks like a door handle on either side wall in back, & the seat drops down, 60/40 split. If the front seat is too far back, the rear seat headrest prevents it from going all the way down.

Hopefully they can get the pricing & options right, but you know Mazda...

subie_wrx · January 2004

Most rex wagons are sold with few or no options, at least in the Boston area, and are going at or below invoice. But it's a pretty stripped car - no sun roof, heated mirrors, heated seats, quality stereo, etc. I've found I especially miss heated mirrors, tho I think they may be an option now.

mazda6s · January 2004

"Some people have speculated there would be a $1000 premium for the hatch & wagon, but this doesn't seem to be the case; unless I am mistaken the price of the 5 door is almost identical to the price of the sedan with sport package. "

The Sport Package will probably be standard on the MZ6 hatch so that would make sense.

mazda6s · January 2004

Rich - do you know if the 5-door will require leather to get SAB/SAC?

herzogtum71 · January 2004

Thanks for the comments about headroom, legroom, etc. You would think someone from Mazda could provide a definitive answer at this point about engine choices. The Mazda 6 book that I picked up from a dealer a couple months ago has this to say about the wagon: "... a sophisticated new MAZDA6 Sport Wagon that combines the extra cargo space you want with the extra exhilaration of a 220-hp V6." No mention of a 4. But last I checked the edmunds.com new car reviews (a few weeks ago), the review for the 2004 Mazda 6 Midsize Wagon still listed a 2.3L inline 4-cylinder engine and made no mention of the V6.

mazda6s · January 2004

That quote does not exclude possibility of a 4cyl engine. If you recall the ads for the sedan when they first came out, they always bragged about the 220HP V6.

audia8q · January 2004

the spec deck info on the MZ6 5door shows that the 4 cyl has the security package as a stand alone option... The "S" model requires moonroof and Bose to get the SAB/SAC pkg...leather is not required.

The Wagon requires a moonroof and bose pkg to get SAB/SAC...

If you email me your fax number, I'll send you the build combo's.

unixxus · January 2004

Mazda states on it's web site under the 'Upcoming Models' section "..Mazda6 Sports Wagon comes standard with a 220-HP, 17 inch wheels, and 5-speed transmission." As stated in an earlier post this vehicle fills a niche spot and is being marketed as an alternative to much more expensive wagons. Mazda is following the same strategy as with the 5-door Mazda3. That model also only gets the available top of the line engine. The chances of a 4-cylinder MZ6 wagon is very slim.

"...edmunds.com new car reviews (a few weeks ago), the review for the 2004 Mazda 6 Midsize Wagon still listed a 2.3L inline 4-cylinder engine and made no mention of the V6."

Since the car is being built by Mazda and not edmunds, I believe Mazda's information stands to be more accurate unless Edmunds knows something that Mazda doesn't.

mazda6s · January 2004

"the spec deck info on the MZ6 5door shows that the 4 cyl has the security package as a stand alone option... The "S" model requires moonroof and Bose to get the SAB/SAC pkg...leather is not required."

That would make sense. If the Sport Package is standard on the "i" 5-door (can you confirm this?) and currently on the 4cyl "i" sedan you only have to get the Sport Package to get the Security Package. On the "s" 5-door model it looks the same as on the sedan - Moonroof and Bose are required to get SAB/SAC. The wagon seems to have the same requirement.

Thanks (in advance) for faxing the combos.

herzogtum71 · January 2004

hasn't changed recently, and the pictures are not necessarily the product that will show up in the American market. You would have to assume that Mazda would present the most up-to-date information at the auto shows. So maybe we'll get lucky and be able to choose 4 cylinder or V6 and stick or AT. That should satisfy just about all of us, assuming the price is kept low and the rust problem doesn't show up in the wagons. In the mean time I have already test-driven the 4 cylinder Outback wagon with AT and will drive a Volvo V40 next week with 4 cylinder and AT. I think I'll also call my Mazda dealer and see when they will have a Mazda6 wagon on the lot.

johnclineii · January 2004

Be aware that the 05 Outback, a complete redesign, will be unveiled at an auto show next month and is expected to be on showroom floors by April/May.

And to get a 6 and SAB/SAC, I bet Mazda is requiring purchase of leather and/or a moonroof. Again, Mazda may lose a sale to me--this will make about the sixth time. I will NOT buy a car without SAB/SAC, nor will I buy a car with moonroof or leather unless I have no other choices. It's not a matter of money, it is a matter of choice, comfort and safety for me.

herzogtum71 · January 2004

You mentioned rear seat headrests. Are they fully adjustable headrests like with Volvos and Outbacks? Or just a part of the rear seatback that sticks up a bit higher and is not adjustable, like with the Saturn wagon?
I agree with johnclineii about leather, moonroofs, and packaqing. I crossed the Honda CR-V off my list because you can't get ABS unless you go with the top-of-the-line 4WD model, and then you have a moonroof that makes headroom marginal for someone my size.
I'm looking at the '04 Outback because it's big enough, and I think there will be good deals just before the '05 redesign hits the lots. Same thing with the Volvo V40, except I like the looks of the V40 better than the V50 that is slated to replace it sometime within the next year. Base Subaru does well in crash tests but doesn't come with side airbags. I think that's another packaging thing -- to get side airbags on the Outback you have to go with an expensive model with leather seats and moonroof. Maybe the '05 will not be packaged that way, but it will also be a bit more expensive than the '04.

rumratt · January 2004

Add me to the list of people pissed of about the SAB/SAC situation. I do not want the moonroof, leather, or the premium sound system. I will most likely cross the 6 off my list if these are required in order to get side air bags.

It is shameful that Mazda is trying to make an extra buck on people who want safety for their families. Many will probably skip the air bags based on this pricing scheme. It's nice to know that Mazda is willing to trade their safety to sell a few extra moonroofs.

regfootball · January 2004

isn't that complete BS?

mazda6s · January 2004

It appears that on all 's' models (sedan, 5-door, wagon), getting SAB/SAC will require Bose and Moonroof too. This sucks, but I'd pay the extra $$$ for the peace of mind.
On the 'i' models you can get SAB/SAC by getting the Security Package, which requires the addition of the Sport Package on the sedan and probably on the wagon too (unless it's standard). SAB/SAC is a stand-alone option on the 5-door (Sport Package is standard).
It could be worse, like Honda who offers only a couple of loaded Accord models with SAC.
Mazda should follow the lead of VW and Subaru (05 Legacy) in making SAB/SAC standard. It's only a matter of time before SAB/SAC is standard on ALL cars.

regfootball · January 2004

the govt. should mandate ABS available as a standalone option. Same thing for side airbags.

Mazda I love your cars but your option packages are the worst. You are doing the customer a huge disservice. Someone ought to send a harsh letter to those perky mazda email reps asking them why the hell they require that to get safety euqipment? I would love to see the reason / excuse for that.

herzogtum71 · January 2004

I just checked out all the on-line articles I could find about the Detroit and Los Angeles auto shows. No mention at all of the Mazda6 wagon.

herzogtum71 · January 2004

Are Mazda News articles official publications of the Mazda corporation? The article says all sport wagons are equipped with the 220 HP DOHC V-6 engine and 5-speed manual transmission is standard but AT is available. But the poster who had visited the LA show said the specs clearly stated a 4-cylinder would be available.

bricknord · January 2004

Not only is it interesting to think that Mazda would "trade their safety" to sell moonroofs, it is even more interesting to think that a buyer would trade their family's safety to save a few bucks. We already have too many goverment regs saving us. Admittedly, Mazda's packaging sucks, yet we are free to vote with our wallets. If smart buyers pass over the Mazda products, if Mazda is smart, they'll revamp their lineup. If they don't, they deserve the negative sales consequences. If buyers opt to put cost over safety, they deserve to face the consequences in an accident. Just my 2c. Plenty of good, safe, cost effective cars on the market today.

rumratt · January 2004

I agree that that it's our job to vote with our wallets... but that's what annoys me - their stupid packaging will likely changes my vote to a 'no'.

And I agree that Honda is also bad with their safety features. Maybe I'm directing too much of this to Mazda alone, but for some reason their packaging with the Mazda6 seems particularly obnoxious to me. They dangle the safety option in front of your nose by making it available on the vehicle, but then they don't let you buy it unless you buy luxury items first. That's like if you were building a house for someone and you had plenty of smoke alarms available, but you wouldn't install them unless the buyer also paid for an in-ground swimming pool.

Mazda has a right to do this, but I find it somewhat offensive and I think it makes a very bad statement regarding their dedication to safety.

johnclineii · January 2004

1989: 626. Want ABS? Must get moonroof. Got Ford Taurus instead.

1992: 626. Want ABS? Must get moonroof. Got Nissan Maxima SE (with driver side airbag as well) instead.

1994-2000 didn't even consider Mazda due to above.

2000: 626. ABS? Must get moonroof. Bought Chevy Impala instead.

2004: Here we go again.

mazda6s · January 2004

Mazda should just follow the lead of VW and now Subaru (in the 05 Legacy) in making ABS and SAB/SAC standard equipment on the Mazda6.

bricknord · January 2004

Part of why options come in what we consider to be inconvenient packages is probably production related. For example, certain options may require electric power and therefore a wiring harness. If there are multiple options requiring power, there would be a different wiring loom than on a more "base" car or may have other differences in the layout or components in the electrical system. For reasons of efficiency on an assembly line, certain options are packaged together since they use common components or wiring. This saves the end buyers money on the whole as production overhead is lowered. You have one machine on the assembly line installing something, not 5. You have one parts bin, not 5. You have one scheme set up to order and deliver parts to the line, not 5. You don't have to keep track of 9000 combinations of parts and accessories. The assembly line does not have to change what they are doing constantly for a million permutations of cars coming through-they can build ten or so basic cars. Yes, not everyone saves as packages now have to be considered when purchasing, but on the whole the net effect to the average buyer is a savings and the company saves money too. If you make every option an ala-carte choice, the combinations of possible cars you have to build on the assembly line spirals out of control and your production efficiency drops dramatically. A small savings in this area can be a lot when spread over a million cars, let's say. Even $100 saved per car over a million cars sold is a bunch of money. If you save 100 million dollars in this way, but you lose 1000 potential clients who avoid your car due to awkward packaging, and you would have made a net profit of $1000 on those 1000 cars (one million bucks lost), you are still way ahead going the efficiency route. If you refuse to do this and the other guy ( competitive car company ) does, you are falling behind him in a business sense by $$ every day and you aren't around potentially to build cars at all pretty soon. This is probably why 30 years ago cars had maroon, blue, green, white, etc, interiors, all options could be ordered separately and so forth. There were tons and tons of choices but the production complexity and resulting inefficiency had to have been staggering. Today, maybe two or three interior choices, and 5-10 options on most cars, big production cost savings. Look at Honda for a good example of this, very limited options on top of the basic DX LX EX scheme...very efficient and profitable company and doesn't seem to be hurting their sales much.

johnclineii · January 2004

And Honda has announced that safety equipment will be becoming standard. Honda, a company MUCH closer to the million sales per car than is Mazda.

Mazda had best wake up. I doubt I am the only one they are losing sales from. And before Audia8 says it, yes, he doesn't see buyers who want the stuff. They don't even consider Mazda any more. You can find them (and me) over at Volvo, Saab, Subaru and soon Honda...

unixxus · January 2004

"Mazda should just follow the lead of VW and now Subaru (in the 05 Legacy) in making ABS and SAB/SAC standard equipment on the Mazda6."

If it is any consolation, ABS and SAB will be standard on the Mazda6 Wagon. SAC will however still still be optional. I believe once Honda makes safty equipment standard, Mazda and other car manufacturers will most likely follow.

joey2brix · January 2004

Probably motovated Honda into the standard SAB/SAC offering. I think it's for '06 models. Probably easier to install SAC in SUV's as it must take some extra headroom. Proabaly why it's bundled with the moonroof: lower headliner all around. At least on the CRV EX, you get EVERYTHING, no option list and all for a 23K MSRP. Great value.

mazda6s · January 2004

"If it is any consolation, ABS and SAB will be standard on the Mazda6 Wagon. SAC will however still still be optional."

I would be surprized if SAB and SAC would be split up on the Mazda6 wagon, as SAB/SAC is a single package (AB6) across the Mazda6 line.

markjenn · January 2004

The "production efficiency" reason for odd bundling of options may be valid, but the fact remains that most other car mfgs seem to be able to be more rationale in their bundling and less restrictive.

And many mfgs seem to be able to do without bundles all-together. BMW, for example, allows virtually any option to be ordered by itself or in a package. In their Mini line, you can choose from hundreds of separate options with no bundling whatsoever. The cars are pre-wired and set up so every option is independent. (On my recent Mini purchase, I built a car on their web site, forwarded the spec to my dealer, and it showed up at the dealership exactly as I ordered it eight weeks later.)

So while I understand why Mazda might be having these restrictions, other mfgs seem to be able to get around them. Why?

The more I see of the problems Mazda is having packaging and marketing their cars, the more I think we may be seeing artifacts of the Mazda/Ford relationship. Ford has an infrastructure that is set up to sell millions of cars/trucks, set up to sell "off the lot" rather than ordered, set up to sell in relatively few combos, set up to cater to fleet buyers, set up to sell through incentives and rebates, and has an ordering system with long lead times and limited flexibility. What do they sell well? F-150s at a million a year, off the lot, and heavily discounted. I don't see this system working nearly so well selling 15K Mazda wagons each year.

All this is pure speculation, so take it with a grain of salt.

- Mark

bricknord · January 2004

Sure, BMW allows ala-carte option ordering. Check out the option prices and the prices of the cars. I'm willing to bet that the average BMW transaction price is light years higher than the average Mazda transaction price. This likely goes a long way to make up for $ lost due to less production efficiency. MINI sales volume is nowhere near Mazda sales volume so I'm not sure a very direct comparison...totally new factory geared for one car only, and one body style for the whole MINI line ( plus a few 'verts now ) versus Mazda 3, 6, Tribute, MPV, truck , etc, so a lot less variants means MINI can ( and HAS to ) offer more options on one car, whereas if Mazda allowed the same ala-carte on their more varied lineup, far greater complexity. When your entire product line is based on one body style, the only way to have variety is with options and powertrains on that car, hence MINI. Show me a worldwide volume manufacturer, i.e., Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc with a diverse product line, non-luxury market, that offers ala-carte options to any large extent and is profitable...? Actually, I'm surprised, pleasantly, to see a manual transission for the 6 wagon--right up my alley. Tired of companies sucking the life out of every cool product by offering only autos. Again, though, the lack of transmission variation probably speaks to production line and engineering efficiencies...

johnclineii · January 2004

...and the lack of consumer demand such that separate emission certification and testing is prudent...

markjenn · January 2004

You both make good points. But Minis (and BWWs) are selling well at high margins, while Mazda is losing their shirt on the 6 and Ford is bleeding red ink like crazy.

I continue to think that Mazda would do well to be the "Japanese BMW" - Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti have tried, but all failed at it. If this means that the cars cost another $500, but can be equipped ala carte in any option combo, ordered over the internet, and appear in the dealer's showroom six weeks later (if BMW can do it in eight weeks from Munich or Oxford, surely a Flat Rock produced car can do it in six), then I think they might do better.

But I'm not an auto executive. I do think there is an existence proof that what they're doing right now isn't doing very well.

- Mark

groovypippin · January 2004

While I tend to think that many people on this board have positively bizarre demands regarding option combinations and would be screaming blue bloody murder at almost any car manufacturer if they were looking to purchase one of their products....

I do agree that Mazda should probably just go ahead and make certain safety equipment standard across their line-up. It certainly can be done. The Mazda6 has standard ABS in all models in Canada for instance.

While Mazda needs to renmain vigilant about the price point of its products, I think if they follow the same "tweener" strategy as VW (Most of their products positioned 1/2 class above the competition), people will still be willing to pay.

rumratt · January 2004

Just for the record...

1) I didn't say Mazda needed to make all of these options *standard*. I'd be perfectly happy if they were stand-alone options.

2) I didn't say they need to get rid of all packaging tricks. They are annoying, but I can accept them as part of business. I'm just flaming them for making a safety feature be dependent on a luxury feature. Putting all the safety stuff in a "safety package" would be fine.

BTW, BMW does have a few options that are package-dependent. For example, wood trim and lumbar support on the 3-series are only available as part of the $3300 premium package. Slightly annoying, but at least these are luxury items.

regfootball · January 2004

cavalier has ABS available for cheap and used to be standard.

focus has ABS standalone for cheap. Same with Aveo.

Mazda, what's the deal.

groovypippin · January 2004

One of the things that you need to take into account is that not all ABS systems are the same. Mazda uses a 4 channel, 3 circuit system that is quite advanced. I believe the cavalier uses a 2 channel system.

This should be taken into account when comparisons are made.

regfootball · January 2004

having to stand on the brakes in an icy snowstorm means I DON'T CARE what setup as long as we can get it.

abpelch1 · January 2004

Sorry for the delay, I've been out of town. The rear seat headrests at the LA autoshow were adjustable. I read somewhere that the headrests weren't supposed to get in the way of lowering the rear seats, but they did. Maybe the front seat was reclined back or something.

nedzel · January 2004

was a piece of junk. I remember a clear day in Atlanta when the ABS kicked in on a rental Cavalier and I almost skidded through an intersection. Not good.

joey2brix · January 2004

What do you expect from an ABS system with drum rear brakes. The rear would shutter like the wheels were about to fall off.

regfootball · January 2004

AT LEAST IT HAD ABS.

Mazda6 Wagon

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