Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

otis123 · March 2002

I also get the "smell" to varying degrees and the wheel shimmy here and there (had an alignment/balance). '01 LLBean is fine otherwise. These issues have been on the Subaru posts for 2 years now. Patti, do the Subaru engineers have an explanation? Thanks.

Ralph

en5 · March 2002

mike, if it was the salt on underbody of the car, wouldn't we smeell this on all cars? I've never experience this before with any of my cars and here in Canada we get so much salt that all our cars are white for couple of months a year.
I'll take my car in for 24000km service and I'll try to bring these issues up.
YetAnotherDave - where was the smell in your car coming from, in my case it seemd to be coming from the vents so I assume it was in the front but I suppose it could come across the underbody into the engine compartment and then throught the vent inlets at the base of the windshield.

paisan · March 2002

Could be the type, brand etc. of salt used. I pretty much pinned this smell down cause it was in 2 of my cars, different brands, and only occured during snow storms/wet winter weather.

-mike

klbears · March 2002

We own a 2000 Subaru Outback Limited.

We have also experienced radiator overheating at 21705 miles, 42,000 miles, 43,000 miles and took it in each time. We have also took it in for an axel fluid leak, unknown radiator fluid and gas smells and engine hesitation and vibration. It has been in the shop for over 39 days.

They pressure tested the engine after each overheating incidence and did not find anything wrong except for a hole in the radiator, the first time, and then replacing the temperature controller.

The last time we brought the car in, it was smoke white smoke and leaking radiator fluid in their carport. The next day they told us they could not find anything wrong with the car and the problem was intermittent.

Subaru Livermore, CA said they are going to replace the engine and later did not replace it, they only replaced the head gaskets, even though their Service Technician said the car was a lemon. The Service Tech was later fired right after they told us the car was a lemon. Strange coincidence.

We have not had overheating now, but the engine is hesitating and vibrating, we have less power, and there is some coolant smells or gas smells every so often. I don't think this is normal and probably the root cause was the constant overheating of the engine.

SOA said they were going to replace the car but are backing out saying only that they are giving us $3500 on a new car as a "goodwill" gesture after leading us along for 2 months. We have lost so much time fighting Livermore Subaru and SOA, and the car has been in the shop for over 39 days that we don't feel this is a good settlement.

We don't trust our Subaru Outback and believe it is a Lemon, so we are taking legal action against SOA.

Has anyone else has this many problem with SOA or their car?

BTW - The 24hr roadside assistance is a crock. My wife called when the car overheated in a bad part of town, and they told her that they would call her back. Then 1 hr later they called back and said they could not find a tow truck, sorry.

li_sailor · March 2002

Hi folks, looking for some help with one of those "collision repairs from hell". My SO (who posted here about this right after it happened 12 weeks ago...seabreeze is her TH name) still doesn't have her '97 Outback back.

The current quick question is...when is the timing belt supposed to be replaced? I looked in the Edmunds maintenance schedule and it show an inspection at several intervals, but I don't see anything about when it should be "replaced even if OK", assuming there is such a time.

What happened is, the timing belt broke and so the valves were toast. The collision guy sent it to Subaru and they did a valve job..then sent it back to the collision guy who finished it up and gave it back as OK. On the drive home (from upstate NY back to Long Island the next day...a 3.5 hour trip) the car died at 2 hours. Turns out there was a "piece of metal" that caused the engine to get "oil starved" (their words). It was towed back to Subaru (this was 10 days ago)and the adjuster is now saying "maybe this didn't come from the accident". The small block now has to be replaced. Of course, we're furious, but so far, he hasn't made a decision. We know this is entirely due to the accident...we don't know if Subaru screwed up or if "missing the piece of metal" is just how things happen, but in any case, either insurance or Subaru should be paying or this, not us.

As I said, they haven't said they won't pay, but they're making noises like they may balk at the small block replacement.

I need the timing belt maintenance schedule but any other advice would be appreciated.

thanks,
Tom

rsholland · March 2002

I would think that info would be in your owner's manual. Newer Subarus should have their timing belt replaced at 105,000 miles. Older ones, at 60,000 mile. I don't know whether yours qualifies for the 105K or not.

Bob

nygreg · March 2002

I'm not sure if I understand the problem. Did the belt break due to the accident? Even so, I am wondering how a piece of metal entered the sealed engine from the accident. Anyway, Bob is correct - newer engines have a check point at 90K and replacement at 105K with older engines at 60K. I wish you luck.

Greg

li_sailor · March 2002

Yes, the belt broke in the accident. The belt question is almost a side thing...it was actually replaced a few months before the accident (it's at 75,000 miles now) as a preventative measure...which seems like it was premature.

The piece came from inside the engine...presumably, it was related to the valve damage...I think the piece was inside the cylinder. How they could do a valve job and not see it, I don't know...but I'm not a mechanic.

n8wvi · March 2002

I thought the EJ25 (and the EJ22) was a non-interference engine? On the same topic, anybody know about the EZ30? I'm not having problems yet, just want to know when I should start worrying about the chain.

onfoot · March 2002

I also have a 1997 Subaru Outback. On my way to work Monday morning the car just died at a stoplight. I had to towed to the Subaru dealer and they found that the cam shaft seized which in turn bent the valves and threw my timing belt off (which I just had replaced at my 60000 mile checkup!). To repair this, they had to pull the engine and need to replace 1 cam shaft, 1 cylinder head and all 16 valves. We are waiting now to hear from the Subaru representative to see if they will cover these repairs. They have already determined that there was no sludge in the oil or remnants from the engine reseal we had done 2 months ago (such as gasket sealer). Although my car has not been in an accident, I think my engine troubles sound awfully similar to yours!

ateixeira · March 2002

If you're past the powertrain warranty, work with them to at least get them to share the cost. Or see if you can buy an extended warranty and have it retroactive to include this repair. Good luck.

-juice

retnav · March 2002

Gents/Ladies: At post 127 I asked for owners opinions about Outbacks as I was in the process of buying a Limited. The discussions on these boards bothered me. Mikenk,bkaisert, and Peterson10 addressed my questions directly and I thank you.The continuing discussion on the board is still concerning. I interviewed the service rep at the dealer re engine knock, brake squeal, brake problems and he indicated that he did not have many of these problems, but that some engines had a slight knock and it has been determined not to affect the engine. I e-mailed SOA and they replied similarly that in increasing engine power some engines developed a knock but extensive research demonstrated no engine damage. So, I have purchased a new Outback Limited and brought it home today. I did not purchase the extended warrenty, but I have till Sunday to change my mind, never purchased one before. On the basis of these boards and you all's experience would you purchase it ( extends the warrenty from 3 years to 6 years ) Thanks in advance.

cptplt · March 2002

you can buy that anytime the car is still less than 3 years or 36K miles, and you don't have to buy from the dealer you purchased at either.
bargain for at least a 1/3 off if not more, there is a New England dealer selling on the internet at up to 40% off- subaruwarranty.com

mikenk · March 2002

I agree with cptplt. Wait until near the end of the factory warranty and then decide. I have a 2001 OB and a 2002 WRX; unless I am sensing problems during the factory warranty time, I will not buy it.

Amazingly, my dealer never pushed it. He just gave me the warranty paperwork and told me to look it over at some point. Refreshing.

Mike

sunburn · March 2002

The valve cover gaskets on my 1994 Legacy are starting to leak. How difficult/messy are these to replace? It looks like 3 bolts per side. Are there any clearance issues with getting the covers off? Thanks.

peterson10 · March 2002

I agree with the others, wait until you're a couple years down the road before you buy, and then make sure you know what the warranty covers. I purchased the extended warranty with my first Subaru (the one and only time) and although I chiselled them down to 50% ($360 at the time), I still lost money. Any problem which arose after the standard warranty period seemed to be excluded from the extended plan (i.e. oil pump seal and ignition module). I think the only thing I ever recovered was the cost of a burned out plug wire. I learned two things:1) If you buy an extended warranty, buy one with 100% coverage; and 2) consider the odds of ever collecting. Unless you get a "bad apple" you aren't likely to put in a claim for a good many years.

welcome aboard,
YetAnotherDave

ateixeira · March 2002

Paul: my 1998 Forester has been reliable, with 44k miles so far, still giving me 25mpg too. I'm confident that with all the knowledge on these boards, plus Patti from SoA, that it will continue to please me.

I used to be dead-set against extended warranties, but lately I've changed my tune. I may get one for my next car, no matter which one I get. You have piece of mind, and cars are getting more and more complicated to fix nowadays.

But from 3 to 6 must mean bumper-to-bumper. I'd prefer a 10/100 powertrain warranty to cover just the big stuff.

Congrats and welcome to another person with David in their name! We say that most Subaru owners are named Dave!

-juice

PS This thread focuses on problems for all Subies, and the fact that there are just 167 posts or so says a lot. Peek at some other problems threads, they're in the thousands! Even for single-model threads!

peterson10 · March 2002

This is embarrasing but...(head bowed, eyes to the ground)...I've never done my own brake work. I think I'll start replacing my own pads (vacant look from the last mechanic convinced me I could do the job as well or better), and so come to you all, hat in hand, for your sage advice. Does anyone know of a good (that means cheap) source for basic how-to guidance on the process. I own every tool ever manufactured and generally do all my own maintenance on everything within my legal property lines, BUT, my usual "do it wrong and learn from your mistakes" methodology seems inappropriate this time. So, alittle help anyone?

Thanks for listening, I've been carrying that shame for years,
YetAnotherDave

ateixeira · March 2002

I'm in the same boat - I've done lots of my own work but never brakes. I have yet to find completely clear instructions with photos, but I would use i Club's instructions plus a Haynes/Chilton's manual.

-juice

bkaiser1 · March 2002

My ex-girlfriend's dad showed me how to do disc brakes (never touched drums) and they are generally quite easy to do...and I am not generally a "handy" person with tools. I replaced the pads and rotors on an 87 Accord and 90 Grand Am with no problems, then tried it out on my own car (a 626 v6 at the time) and had to have the damn thing towed to the shop because I could not get the shims behind the pads to seat properly. A manual or anything similar would have been handy, but I was relying on memory and f'ed it up. Before I attempt the brakes on my OB, I would like to get my hands on some instructions/guides/manuals! Happy tinkering!
Brian

paisan · March 2002

and disc brakes are a cake walk. Especially on newer disc brake cars.

For the subies you just un-bolt the bolts that hold the caliper, sometimes 1 sometimes 2, swing or remove the caliper pop out the pads, stick new pads in, open the brake resivoir, apply a c-clamp to the piston snap in the new pads re-assemble the caliper with the 1 or 2 bolts and bam you are done

On my old XT6 you need a special clamp that turns the piston, quite a PITA.

-mike

ateixeira · March 2002

What about drums? My Forester has those in the back.

The pads look like they have lots of life left in them, thankfully. I'm lucky, I guess, 44k miles and no squeeks plus long lasting pads.

If I miffed up the job, I'd take photos and consult with folks here until I got it right. You gotta love cyberspace.

I actually used Miata.net to get more detailed instructions before I advanced the ignition timing on my Miata. Sure enough - almost immediately got several answers and lots of help.

-juice

paisan · March 2002

I never touch em. Haven't had rear drums since late '97 on any of my cars. Also drums do even less braking in the rear than rear discs. Most rear drums last like 70-100K

-mike

ateixeira · March 2002

I check them each time I rotate the tires, and so far they look like they'll last forever. That's just fine with me.

-juice

seayakker · March 2002

I'm beginning to think I have a problem on my Bean w/ the climate control. Spring is hitting here, w/ mid-70's temps today, so I thought I'd roll up all the windows & try out the AC.

BLASTED with hot air! The climate control goes down to 65 (65 is cool air???) & I rolled the windows down to give it a chance to cool off...tried it on full Auto, recirculating from the outside.....it was just unbearably hot air. So, just the play, I turned it all the way up to 79 degrees, & that was actually MORE comfortable since the it was only blowing hot air at 1/4 fan speed instead of full.

Now, this is my first car w/ auto climate control, but I've never had AC blow hot air like that. The other aspect of this is that I was never sure I was getting what the temperature indicated when I had the heat on during winter. the fan speed varied, but something seemed "off" about it....I thought it was my imagination then; now I'm now so sure. Am I missing something? Or do I have an issue with my HVAC system? Advice?

hondafriek · March 2002

I don,t why you guys are hung up on brakes, go ahead and attempt it you always have a fully intact brake set on the opposite side of the side of the car to refer to.

Just do one wheel at a time and it is almost impossible to screw up.

Cheers Pat.

hammersley · March 2002

Maybe something as simple as the fuse that controls the compressor, relays, or whatever. Check your fuses - both under the dash & uinder the hood.
If your compressor is cycling, it could be a refrigerant issue (as in lack of).
Just a couple ideas as starting points.
Q for the crew: is the ducting control vacuum or electric, and could that also be as issue?

Cheers!
Paul

bkaiser1 · March 2002

I feel so much better about having the car towed to the shop having read that. Thanks!

seayakker · March 2002

Thanks Paul - the fuse labelled AC is fine.

Ummm.....don't make fun of me here ok? The last time I worked on my cars was well before anything I drove was equipped w/ AC. Refrigerant issue - is there a different refrigerant container for the AC than for the engine? Assuming there isn't, the coolant level is OK.

I hate going to my dealer shop (Albany Ford-Subaru); the only good thing about them is they're close. But maybe that's my next step.....

Jillian

subaru_team · March 2002

I'm not too sure how long you've been on these boards, but, I wanted to clarify something for you. I do monitor the board and participate. Sometimes I can share a resolution with everyone. However, on occasion, we run into situations where there is more to the story. Out of respect for our customers, I do not share that other side. It does not mean that I agree that the problem is not able to be resolved fairly.

You have our commitment for a good ownership experience. I'm glad you purchased a Subaru and I look forward to hearing from you in the future!

Patti

hammersley · March 2002

Nobody here will make fun of you for what you don't know. I've learned a lot from here in the 2+ years I've had my Subaru. I hope I've been able to share some knowledge as well. Welcome to the Crew!

The coolant in the radiator isn't the same as what makes the AC work. The AC stuff is commonly referred to as refrigerant, and operates in a closed system that despite the best laid plans of mice & men, will occasionally leak out. No refrigerant (they used to call it Freon) no cold air.

Uh-oh... another Paul... could the Dave thing be spreading?

Cheers!
PaulH (if that helps clarify anything)

grahampeters · March 2002

G'day

The really important lesson with brakes is to make sure you test them very carefully after changing the pads. What is really exciting is the experience of standing on the brakes for the first time and discovering the pistons which press on the calipers are a long way from applying pressure. For real entertainment, try this when driving toward a major intersection with a red light against you.

Yes, it was me driving but a mate's car where he had just "done the brakes". Sort of "a religious experience"!

Cheers

Graham

hypov · March 2002

must have had been a diaper moment too. :-D
That's one entertainment I rather miss.

-Dave

otis123 · March 2002

My '92 Camry LE rear drum brakes had 161K miles and were still at 50% when I sold the car in Feb. '01 for my LLBean. The front discs did all the work for 9 years!!

peterson10 · March 2002

thanks to all for the perspective(s) on brakes. I plan to give it a whirl when I swap out my Blizzaks for the ol' Wilderness tires, probably in another two weeks (here in Upstate NY we can pretty much count on at least one early April snowstorm).
I'll report back after I get over the cursing...throwing of tools, etc.

Thanks again,
YetAnotherDave

ateixeira · March 2002

Pat: I'll be taking the plunge as soon as any of our brakes need it. The wife has relatively new pads, so the Miata will probably be the first to need a brake job.

Graham: I bet you'll never make the same mistake again! :-)

-juice

seayakker · March 2002

So is there a way I can find (easily) if my AC refrigerant is low? Where is it? Or is this a :::sigh::: trip to the dealer?

Jillian

armac13 · March 2002

is nothing to fool around with. It also takes specialized equipment to determine if the refrigerant level is proper. Without it, you would be like opening the balloon to see if there is enough air in it.
:-)

Ross

hondafriek · March 2002

Most if not all A/C systems have a sight glass,usually located close to the refrigerant reciever this is an aluminum cylinder close to the condenser on the front of the car.

At normal running temperatures in the summer you should see no bubbles in this sight glass.

Usually if there is a constant stream of bubbles it is uaually because the refrigerant is low,

Are you having problems? because if you are let the dealer sort it out.

This is not something you can service yourself, specialised equipment is required,I speak from experience as I was a commercial refrigeration mechanic.

Cheers Pat.

hondafriek · March 2002

Way to go, I promise you there is nothing to be afraid of,just take your time watch how you disassemble, and do one side at a time.

Once you have done you will wonder what all the fuss was about.

Cheers Pat.

seayakker · March 2002

It was a missing A/C relay.

The good news (besides that) is that there must be a note somewhere in my file to treat me especially nicely. I squawked a bit after my 3K service, letting them know that not once in my years of dealing with them had I received ideal treatment....today I not only got in & whisked through w/o an appt., but received smiles, thank you's, good day's &, well, all the things one should EXPECT from a "service" department.

Jillian, smiling & ready for the heat.

subaru_team · March 2002

So who was this wonderful dealer? Let's share their name to publicly give them their due! I love encouraging that kind of treatment. Heck, I'll even give them a call with a pat on the back!

Patti

seayakker · March 2002

You're right - years of negative experiences certainly doesn't mean that one great experience should not be commended!

This was the Albany Ford-Subaru Service Department in Albany CA. I stopped at the dealer first, & a salesperson called the service dept. & promised that they'd be ready for me when I got there. (a 2 minute drive away) And that's exactly what happened.

Now if only they'd pay me the $100 they promised me from several years back, after one of those bad experiences (hah!) Oh, that was the Ford half, not the Subaru half ;-)

Jillian

happyh6 · March 2002

Sorry Paul, I am also Paul H.

ateixeira · March 2002

Yeah Pat, plus Miata.net has good instructions and photos, and the Miata has got to be the simplest brake job in the world. That'll give me the confidence to do the others later.

Definitely give them good feedback. I'm sure they love it. It's a real motivator.

-juice

steine13 · March 2002

I believe this has been covered, but the search engine on this otherwise excellent site is so bad as to be painful... the search "VIN +subaru +legacy" unearthed the helpful truth that somewhere in the 5000+ messages of the Legacy/Outback thread, there was indeed a message with this information. That's good to know...

So I have to ask: Does anybody know how to decode the VIN of a Subaru Legacy and/or Outback? I'm interested in buying a used one, and I would like to be able to look at a VIN and figure out what transmission it has... I have got to have a stick...

Thanks in advance,
-Mathias
East Lansing, MI

ateixeira · March 2002

I haven't, but I'd be interested to find out, too. Maybe the i-club has this info?

-juice

kens · March 2002

Wow, so Albany Subaru can actually do it if they try! I used to live in El Cerrito and I checked them out when I was shopping for my 98 Forester. I was very turned off by their sleazy salespeople and vowed never to go there again.

Good for them!

Ken

subaru_team · March 2002

I'm posting on both boards since it may help others.

11th position in the VIN

G or 6 = 5 speed
H or 7 = Automatic

Have a great weekend!

Patti

hammersley · March 2002

Now **2** Paul H's here... Lord-only-knows how many Daves... what's next?!?!

Cheers!
Paul...er Paul H... er... Ross! Help! Identity crisis!

Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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