Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

ateixeira · September 2003

Eric: try a local indy mechanic, get references from friends or family members.

The dealer is going to charge you $800 just to take it apart. That's why they're going straight to the "replace" recommendation. Most consumers aren't willing to pay the $800, is my guess.

-juice

snowbelter · September 2003

I, too, am a member of the H-6 coolant loss club. The rate of loss in my 02 VDC has decreased. Took about 8 months to drop from the "full" mark to the "add" mark. I put in about 5 oz a couple of months back to bring it up to just above halfway, and its dropped a tad. My wife's 00 OB has also needed coolant. Her rate of loss is less than that in my car. The dealer just yawns and says "evaporation".

ateixeira · September 2003

Well, I'm glad noone is having problems with their H6 engines.

If you'll recall, a certain troll was predicting doom and gloom, you'd have thought all H6s would have blown up by now!

-juice

snowbelter · September 2003

Back in June I reported that my wife's 00 OB needed new pads and rotor resurfacing at 33k, just 3k after the dealer did the 30k service and found everything fine. The service manager told me it was normal "wear and tear", but the tech who worked on the car told me the sliders had frozen, rust had formed on the rotors and eaten away at the brakes. I complained to SOA about Subaru sliders which the local tech told me were of poor design in 00. SOA is reimbursing me for much of the cost of new pads and resufacing of the rotors. The SOA rep was concerned about the problem and gave me the impression from the beginning that Subaru wants to make sure customers are treated correctly by dealers. I supplied them with documentation and they did some investigation, so it took a while. Seems like the dealer either failed to notice a problem with the sliders at the 30k service or failed to lub the sliders at the service. Before I got SOA involved I tried talking with the Service Manager. Back in July I wrote to the Factory Rep about this problem and problems we have had with this dealer (my car, too) and have never heard from him.

ateixeira · September 2003

Well, they may have followed up on your case and seen that is was resolved nicely for you, so that's why he may not have called. I guess he could have followed up, though.

-juice

blackbean · September 2003

Anyone have any expereince with a dent removal tool like pops-a-dent by Simoniz? (www.pops-a-dent.com). I have a quarter-sized door ding that I go a month after I got my new Bean(ouch!) and would lve to remove it with paying a fortune.

Leo - I had heard of the dry ice thing, but not so sure that would work...

Thanks, Matt

wildcorgis · September 2003

We are the new happy parents of a 2002 regatta red L.L. Bean.

Unfortunately we cannot pop the front sunroof. We hold the open switch forever and nothing happens. When we let go and press again the rear sunroof opens. Are we overlooking something?

Also, do you get a free loaner for warranty work like in this case?

I feel fortunate buying a used L.L. Bean because of the free three year maintenance. You know at least the car has been serviced regularly.

While I"m on roll, does any one have any experience or knowledge about bumper repair. I know it's a hot new thing now and relatively inexpensive. Our front bumper on the very bottom is pretty scuffed and all of the corners have the common "garage swipe". Rear bumper has dime to quarter sized pieces of paint scraped off.

Thanks,

Steve

otis123 · September 2003

I was at a Honda dealer a couple weeks ago. There was a mobile unit of 2 guys redoing the bumpers of 6 used cars - including a 2001 black LLBean (same as mine). They just do plastic bumpers - no sheet metal. Seem to go through the same steps of filling, sanding, etc. - no prime coat though.

I was just wondering if it was OK with the EPA. They were stinking up the parking lot and paint was drifting onto new nearby Accords. Must be a different type of paint or they're doing it in an illegal manner.

Results seemed to be pretty good. Makes a used car look like it was pampered (like my car!).

So, used car buyer beware....

Ralph

paisan · September 2003

I believe it's very different due to the elastic properties of the plastic in the bumper.

-mike

luck11 · September 2003

Anyone change the plugs on a 2000 outback? If so, are any special tools required, and was it difficult to access the plugs?

Any cautionary tips/advice would be appreciated.

Also thinking of changing my own coolant. Do the dealers normally flush the entire system, or do they simply drain and re-fill?

Thanks.

jfl · September 2003

Check out scoobymods.com for detailed plug changing instructions. The plugs are deep in the head and may require more than a 6" extension. I recall the most difficult part to be pulling the plug wires off.

You can also search the Subaru Maint & Repair II thread on Edmunds.

Jim

paisan · September 2003

Drain-fill works. I did 8 wrxs last weekend.

The Plugs I did on a WRX, not too bad, but you'll need to remove the battery, washer resivoir, and airbox, and you'll need at least a 6" extension, I used a wobble extension and/or u-joint.

-mike

jlemole · September 2003

Lift some weights before you try getting those boots off! You'll need an extension and a swivel connector. I had to remove the rubber grip inside the spark plug socket too because the friction between the outside of the socket and the "tube" going into the head kept causing the socket to detach from the extension. I loosened the plug and then got it out with a long mechanic's magnet. Drop the new plug down the tube and tighten.

Like Paisan said, remove the washer reservoir on the driver's side, and the air ductowork on the passenger side for easier access.

This probably also goes without saying, but make sure it's a cold engine!!!!

Jon

paisan · September 2003

And plan on it taking about 2-3hrs. It should only take about 1.5, but it's definitely not a 5 min job.

-mike

jfl · September 2003

I was fortunate that I didn't need to remove the rubber grip in the plug socket. It probably depends on the socket.

mike, any tips in removing the spark plug boots? Hope the dielectric grease I used on the boots help.

Jim (fortunately not due for a plug change for 15k miles)

jlemole · September 2003

I went pretty liberal with the dielectric grease in the hopes of having an easier job of it the next time. My forearms and hands were pretty sore after grappling with those boots the first time (not to mention some skinned knuckles). I was sure glad I had an H4 and not an H6 that night!

Jon

paisan · September 2003

On the WRX we did they came off pretty easy, on my L i had to yank em pretty hard. Maybe a pair of plier gently tugging on em?

-mike

vetmats · September 2003

I have an '03 H6 Outback wagon with Yakima crossbars on top. Unfortunately, I am getting a lot of wind noise from them.

Any ideas on how to get rid of (or at least reduce) the wind noise?

Thanks.

rob999 · September 2003

Personally I would remove roof racks when not in use but if you need them on a regular basis here's a couple options:

1. Install the yakima spoiler/deflector in front of the leading cross-member. This directs air from the windshield up and over the cross members to help reduce wind noise.

2. Spiral-wrap a heavy cord or wire around the length of the cross-member. This helps shed the wind vortex and reduce noise. (I don't recall the specific term for this effect, but it's been discussed in the board before). Perhaps you've seen some rigid car antennas with a spiral wire bonded to the outside - this is doing the same thing.

luck11 · September 2003

Thanks for the great info on the plug change. Thought I would do it myself to save some cash, but on second thought, time with my son is more precious, so I think I'll leave it to a professional.

emmaline · September 2003

Here’s an annoying and ongoing problem with my 2001 Legacy Wagon. The
sun visor on the driver’s side is difficult to disengage. If I leave it disengaged
for any amount of time, it seems to “slip,” and is almost impossible to get back
into the brackets that hold it. I have in the past moved sun visors around a lot,
but hesitate to mess with my Legacy’s visor because I end up “wrestling” with it
to get it back into place. Not good to be driving and wrestling with your sun
visor at the same time. Has anyone else had this problem, and have you found a
solution? Emma (This may sound like a minor problem, but on a busy freeway,
with a blinding sun shifting position, and you battling to force a sun visor back
into place...it’s an accident waiting to happen.)

fibber2 · September 2003

Hey, if it bothers you, this is the place to ask!

OK, if I got this straight, you are having problems with the roof mounted clip near the rearview mirror that holds the round rod on the sun visor - it is too tight.
1) The clip is held to the roof with a philips screw. Loosen it and try rotating the clip just slightly and see how the visor engages and disengages. Sometimes intentional misalignment will help it slip in with less resistance.
2) Try a little lubricant. A tiny touch of vasaline or the like.
3) Trim the lower opening lip ever so slightly with a file or exacto knife until a more acceptable fit is achieved.

Hope this helps,

Steve

gtrux · September 2003

We own a 2002 Subaru Outback wagon with 17500 plus miles. We bought it in December 2001 and when we started driving with the windows open in April with 3000 miles we noticed a pinging noise going up a grade. We have taken it to the dealer 6 times complaining about the noise. They verified our claim, reprogrammed the ECM, and replaced the knock sensor but these actions didn't fix the problem. We had been using different brands of regular gas so we filled up with several tanks of premium gas (octane = 91). This lessened the pinging somewhat but didn't eliminate it. We switched back to regular because that's one of the reasons we bought the car. After many months a Subaru district service manager became involved. He hooked up his laptop computer on two occasions and collected engine parameters as the engine was pinging. After some analysis by Subaru in Japan he stated that the condition was normal. We were ready to live with the noise but a friend said we should get another opinion. We took it to an independent ASE shop and their finding was: "prolong ping can damage lower engine/should be addressed". So our questions are: does pinging harm a Subaru engine and if so is there some documentation that we can use to get Subaru to continue to look for a solution to our problem? Or is this normal in the new millennium such that we just drive it with the windows up and the radio on?

fibber2 · September 2003

My '02 OBW with 17.5k turns two years old this week, and I am getting more persistent ping as well. I have done nothing about it, however, other than play with driving style and octane. Please keep us informed about anything you discover or actions you take.

Thanks,

Steve

nygreg · September 2003

I ping too. Higher Octane does help. I typically run 89. Not that worried about it.

Greg

pathtomax · September 2003

My 01 Outback Ltd has the same issues. I drive about 36k miles/year and really want to stick with regular or at most, mid-grade. My dealer said that switching grades from high to low makes it happen. I bought mine used with 19k miles and now up to about 28k and still doing it. I use only 87 Octane right now.

jlemole · September 2003

Slight pinging here too when going up hills.

Jon
02 OBW (30,000 miles)

hl1hl2 · September 2003

I brought my 2000 Outback wagon in to the dealer to get it aligned. The previous owner had just replaced the rear tires, and it was recommended that I replace the front tires as well. That solved the alignment problem, but now the power steering makes a low groaning noise when I am in Park. The noise stops when I turn the steering wheel to a certain position. The Subaru service guys are stumped as to what is causing the noise. Any Subaru experts out there that have any suggestions on what is causing the low level moaning?

canyuntrash · September 2003

Hi Patti,
CanyunTrash here.
I appreciate your response to my comment on edmunds.com OB/Legacy problems regarding brakes and wind noise (#1869).
Just an update here: About two weeks ago, I had a hard braking situation on the freeway. Almost immediately afterward, I noticed brake pulsation.
Yesterday I took the vehicle in to have the wind noise problem repaired under warranty. I also asked to have the brakes checked. The service rep informed me that I had less than 5% left on the front pads and quoted a price. I asked about the rotors and said I'd make my decision based on their condition. He said they would be taken care of with the brake job. I resumed with my work, expecting him to come back with a report. The next thing I know is that my "car is ready" and I'm being charged almost $200 for a brake job. And I never signed an authorization, even though I was waiting in the show room.
I was so upset I just paid the bill and left, as I was already late for a work appt. When I got on the freeway, I still heard the wind noise, the brakes felt mushy(although no shudder), and I had to take a deep breath to keep from picking up the phone and cussing out the dealer.
This is my third new Subie, but the first that required 4 brake jobs in 43g miles... and several trips to get something as minor as a driver door wind whistle fixed, which it isn't yet, but I'm about ready to just give it up.
I did wait until the afternoon to call the dealer and politely express my dissatisfaction with the whole mess.
Anyway, I called SOA this AM, but they're closed. I'll continue to persue this at that level, but thought I'd give you the "heads up".

otis123 · September 2003

I hope Subaru engineers have fixed the side mirror wind noise problem and the front brake/rotor problem in the 2005 re-design....

mikef11 · September 2003

hl1hl2,

That sounds similar to what I was experiencing in my '00 Outback. When the weather was warmer (May thru Sept here)the steering would groan when I was stopped. Turning the steering wheel would stop it momentarily, but the groan would come back about 10 sec after I stopped turning the wheel.

After a few visits to the dealer, they used a stethescope to determine that the power steering pump bearings were the source of the noise. They changed the pump under warranty. A year later the noise was starting to return. I never found out why as I had an accident and wrote off the car that winter :-( Happily there were no injuries, and I received a good payout from the insurance company. I am now driving an 03 Outback :-) which is a much better car - smoother, quieter, no groans, chattering clutch, etc.

Hope this helps.

MikeF

fibber2 · September 2003

if you cannot find a solution, total the car and get a new one! (just kidding....)

Steve

mikef11 · September 2003

You must be an engineer - got it right in one shot! :-) Now I have to stop XT envy before it stops my Outback. I think my insurance company would not be so forgiving a second time.

MikeF

otis123 · September 2003

don't buy the first year of a new model re-design??

emmaline · September 2003

Thank you, Steve, for your response about the sun visor. But it is not the bracket
that is the problem. The problem is that when I remove the sun visor on the
driver’s side from the bracket, I have a hard time fitting it back into the bracket
because the visor “slips out and gets longer” (sounds strange, but when I
mentioned it awhile ago on a service visit to the dealership, I was told, Oh yeah,
you just have to really push and get it back into place). The person who told me
this was muscular and strong, and I’m sure it was no problem for him. I’m
arthritic and old, and it hurts my back to push it back into place, and it interferes
with driving. Emma

toyo_z · September 2003

thanks again to patti for monitoring this forum. It's nice to see that subaru cares!

i've got a '96 Legacy L (bought new, replacing an '86 GL10), and my SO drives a 2002 Legacy. So you could call me a subaru fan.

After owning these things for so long, and watching them evolve, i'd like to just back up what other folks are saying about needed changes to the 2005's and beyond. (This isn't just academic for me -- i'll be looking to replace my old legacy in 2006..)

1) Frameless window seals need improvement. The frameless windows are a nice idea, but my experience across several generations of subies is that the seals are imperfect, and cause significant wind noise. This is true even on our 2002. this also goes along with...

2) wind noise from the mirrors, especially on the driver side. It's present in all of our cars. I was really surprised that the 2002 still had this problem. Please, improve the aerodynamics of the mirror, the window seals, or even the thickness of the glass if you have to... just cut down on the noise.

3) weak brake rotors. the front rotors on these cars all seem to warp. I don't ride the brake, nor am i abusive. None of my other cars (hondas) exhibit these problems with warpage.

4) leaky gaskets. For whatever reason i find that these engines tend to leak oil & need to have their seals replaced more often than others. This goes for the 1.8L in the old GL10, as well as the 2.2 in my '96. Still no leaks in the 2002's 2.5, so i'm holding out hope...

I'm hoping that subaru can get these issues resolved for the 2005 model switch-over. If so, they'll continue to have me as a loyal customer.

bgabel1260 · September 2003

I only have 2000 miles on my 03 OB wagon but I can echo some of what others say: my vehicle exhibits too much wind noise and has problematic brakes.

I've never owned a car where the wind howls so much when driving on the highway. It's not the roof rack either...the noise comes from the A-pillar area. Whirrrl, whooosh. It can drive you nuts.

The brakes are funky. If you press them "normally" I don't notice any problems with their grip or feel. But if you have to hit the brakes hard, they pulse and feel like they have weak knees. It is not very confidence inspiring. I would find it hard to believe that a car with 2000 miles has warped rotors already, if that's what the real problem is.

Enigne oil consumption seems fine. I checked the dipstick last week and the level was still at the high mark.

No clutch chatter but I'll wait until winter before I write it off.

fibber2 · September 2003

Sam, add your thoughts to the "Suggestions for Subaru" thread. Patti is having her assistant compile a wish-list for upcoming products from that listing.

Steve

fibber2 · September 2003

Engineer here! ;-)

fibber2 · September 2003

I need to look at it during lunch to see if I can understand your concern.

Steve

K9Leader · September 2003

On my 2000 OBW Ltd., the rear bumper has developed cracks in the paint that are now causing flakes to come off. I think one of these may have been someone tapping my bumper in a parking lot just hard enough to push it in and crack the paint but the bumper popped back into shape. The other is due to my 15 year old son heaving a full 20-lb. propane tank up and slamming it down on the top of the bumper and then twisting it -- you can see where the round bottom lip of the tank dug into the black plastic bumper cover/protector.

The black plastic cover/protector does not wrap down around the top corner of the bumper. If it did, it would have better protected the bumper (at least from my son). I see that there is a Legacy Wagon bumper cover/protector that appears to wrap down and around, but nothing similar listed for the Outback (this is on www.subaruparts.com and www.subaru-parts.com, part #E7710LS000).

Would this cover fit on my OB? Would it fit over the inadequate one that is already there?

--K9Leader

hl1hl2 · September 2003

Thanks for all the help regarding the steering wheel groan. Especially the ones suggesting totaling the car, or never buying the first year of a model design. Very helpful : )

Cheers,

HL

fibber2 · September 2003

Robert, I believe that the cover that came on my OBW (dealer installed accessory) was the Legacy item. That portion of the bumper looks to be pretty much the same.

Steve

jfl · September 2003

that pulsing is the ABS kicking in and out preventing skidding! It has nothing to do with warpage. It's designed to do that.

Test drive any ABS equipped vehicle and this will happen when you slam on the brakes.

Jim

mikef11 · September 2003

I guess you could use a stethoscope and listen to the steering gear pump to determine if it is the source of the noise. If you don't know what a good one should sound like, that may not help you much though. But your mechanic should be able to tell. Of course, none of that gives you quite the adreneline rush that my drastic solution does .. :-)

FWIW, my daily driver is a 94 Accord, also a first-of design. It has been incredibly reliable, but just not as much fun as the Sube, and I expect the Sube reliability to improve as it ages (to a point).

MikeF

cptplt · September 2003

pre about 00, the material used was prone to deteriorate with age, newer cars should not have the problem , or newer gaskets put into older cars too!

otis123 · September 2003

Send your comments to Subaru via their web site. I finally sent a wish list for the 2005 re-design (Patti recommended it a few weeks back) this past Friday. I had a real response [not a form letter] in the email this morning, telling me it had been forwarded to the appropriate team...

bgabel1260 · September 2003

The sensation I'm experiencing from the brakes is not being caused by the ABS. I know what that feels like; this is different. I shouldn't have said "pulse" in my description. ABS produces a consistent and sharp pulsing feel and sound. When I hit my brakes firmly (short of slamming), there's a grinding/shuddering/wobbly feeling that isn't as well-defined as ABS pulsing. It feels like the brake pads are gripping a surface that is less than smooth. I also notice some minor side-to-side motion in the front end, as if the car doesn't want to stop in a straight line.

When I take it to the dealer for the 3000 mile service I'll mention this problem but I won't say "pulse" because they'll tell me it's the ABS. That makes sense but that's not the cause.

pathtomax · September 2003

I know that we have seen the wind noise topic a lot on here. My noise (2001 Outback Ltd) is coming out of what, I think, is the passenger side. It is really pronounced around 60 miles/ hour..and then after a few minutes will stop. It is not a constant noise, but kind of a 'puffing' sound. It is either the corner of the windshield or perhaps that door. Does this make any sense or am I imagining?!

jim255 · September 2003

I have an 02 Outback Wagon(22000 miles) with a problem that has occurred three times in the last month. When I am driving between 55 & 65 mph, the vehicle begins to vibrate like I was driving over rumble strips. After coming to a complete stop and starting up again, the problem disappears.

I called the dealer but they refuse to discuss the problem over the phone and told me to bring it in and leave it for the day. I know that they will only take it for a test drive and tell me it worked fine for them.

Has anyone else seen this problem?

Thanks

Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles