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Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I would change the tranny and diffy fluids. Could have metal shavings or even chunks in there grinding to make that noise. Check the drain plugs, I think they are magnetic, for metal.

    -juice
  • walk_the_walk2walk_the_walk2 Member Posts: 140
    Dear Friends:
    My wife and I own a 2000 Outback wagon which we purchased new in March 2000 from a local dealer. The vehicle now has 49000 miles on it and the paint on the front bumper is coming off and is clearly defective, according to the Subaru dealer's own body shop mgr.

    Also, what is more damning is that the chrome paint on the bottom edge of the grille is "bubbling" in 3 places. This cannot be repainted, so the grill must be replaced. We live in Florida, but not near salt, and the car has only been used for local to/from work usage; no offroad, racing, 4 wheeling, etc.

    The local Subaru dealer says the paint warranty only goes to 36K/36000 miles, and they have offered to split the cost ~$450 with us 50/50. I discussed this with the General Manager and pressed for full coverage under the Rust Corrosion warranty of 60 months, but my request was denied and they are claiming that SOA only covers to the 50/50 split.

    My car is the 2nd one from 2000 with this problem locally. Also we are aware that there is a paint recall for salt belt states for rear suspension parts that were not properly coated, so it seems that the paint on this car is not high quality, at least for this year model.

    I logged a complaint at NHTSA.GOV, but it may not go anywhere, since it is not safety related.

    My question is this: should I take the 50/50 and run with it, or am I should I press my case with SOA. I can find no specific details on the Subaru paint warranty and the terms of the rust/corrosion warranty say nothing about paint coming off or bubbling up on chromed parts.

    Please advise if you can on this topic.
  • hsubaruhsubaru Member Posts: 2
    In January 2003 I replaced my Wilderness tires on my 2000 Outback Wagon with Dunlop Sport A2s.

    Now after 13000 miles, all tires are badly & unevenly worn & one is nearly bald. They became increasingly noisy through the year. We've had them balanced several times and did an alignment as well. The Wilderness tires wore evenly and were not noisy - but were not great in snow & ice.

    I see from several posts, that others have had problems with the Dunlops.

    We got the Dunlops at Dunn tire. Should we expect Dunn to replace the tires with new (different brand/model) tires?

    Thanks.
    - hsub
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    My 2001 Outback had a paint problem that affected the metal, not plastic parts, and was covered under warranty. In my case, the entire car had to be stripped and repainted at around 50k miles. When it went in the shop for that, I also asked to see if they would replace the chrome grill (which was bubbling in several spots) and found they would not cover that item. I didn't push too hard for a new grill, though, since I was getting the whole car repainted.

    In retrospect, I should never have had the body shop touch the car. The process of stripping everything off (glass, mouldings, interior panels, etc) left the car an absolute mess after -- they never could get the car assembled properly and it rattled horribly after. I ended up getting rid of the car (for an 04 WRX) because I just could not stand the incurable wind noise and rattles that cropped up after the repair.

    Brian
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    I was one of the members who had a bad experience with the Dunlop A2's on my Outback...if you do a search on my name or the tires, you'll likely find the original posts. Anyways, your experience sounds similar: rapid tread wear, noise, and imbalance problems. Discount Tire determined that something wasn't right with the tires and replaced them with Michelin MXV4's for me. No one could really figure out what was causing the problem, though, as everything else seemed to be in order (alignment, pressure, rotation, etc).

    Brian
  • sailorsailor Member Posts: 1
    Sometimes they work fine, other times VERY stiff.
    I somehow feel there must be a sensor going bad?
    I have: Removed "Height" fuse, got worse
       Remove air line connections, got worse
       
    If the shocks were bad would they not be bad ALL the time?
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    do you have an early 90s Legacy LS with the air suspension? Only reason I can figure why you have a height fuse and air lines related to shocks. My 92 used to leak air from it intermittently, the air pump could at times "repressurize" the system and at other times it could not.
    Speaking of height adjustments, that silly extra inch and a half or whatever it was that the car would be raised was totally worthless from a practical viewpoint.
  • hsubaruhsubaru Member Posts: 2
    Brian et al...

    How do you like the Michelin MXV4s?

    Dunn is willing to replace the Dunlop tires, but they are recommending Continental ContiTour CH95s.

    Any opinion on the Michelin vs the Continental? Consumer Reports likes the Continentals better for handling but says the Michelins have a shorter stopping distance for wet & and dry conditions.

    Thanks.
    hsubaru
  • rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    I have a set on my 99 GT. Replaced the RE92's at 38k. The back ones cupped, and I had the car go out from under me more that once in the rain. The Michelins handle quite well, wet and dry. Ok in the snow, but not sure if it is the car or the tires. Have 63k on this set, and expect another 20k. I recommend the high speed rated tires. Rob M.
  • gearhead4gearhead4 Member Posts: 122
    I admire your tenacity in your attempt to have SOA cover your bumper repaint, but I think the 50/50 split is the best you can do.
    I am not aware of any manuafacturer warranty that covers paint for more than 3 years. Your bumper cover will never rust, so the corrosion warranty does not apply. The underbody rust recall is a safety issue, your bumper paint does not pose a safety risk. The NHSTA won't give this any consideration unless you can convince them the peeling paint affect soneone's safety.

    I have always thought the faux chrome on the grille was cheesey. A replacement grille will ultimately begin to bubble. The old grille can be repainted, but it will never look like chrome. You could sand down all the shiney plastic and give it a coat of black paint.

    I would take the 50/50 offer and be happy you did't have to pay the whole bill.

    Jim
  • tomrtomr Member Posts: 20
    I don't know what happened but as soon as the warm weather came the rattle disappeared. I am however finding the seat uncomfortable maybe a seat cushion will help.
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    I personally LOVED those tires, although I ended up trading the car in on the WRX after only 10K miles with them. In that time, though, the Michelins seemed perfectly matched to the Outback...outstanding ride, quiet, and great snow traction. Those are 3 qualities I could not say about the Dunlops I had on the car previously.

    I may actually put some MXV4's on my WRX now that the OEM tires are getting worn out. While the MXV isn't an all out performance tire, I think they would be great on my WRX given my driving style. If I raced on a track, I'd likely go with something else...

    Brian
  • sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    The BF Goodrich Traction T/A tires are working really well for me. While the noise is slightly louder than with the Potenzas, they are definately much better suited to the car.

    When I first put them on, they were great in the snow. (Then the snow melted and I haven't had a chance to try them again).

    They are great in the rain and handle puddles on the highway effortlessly. Dry performance is also pretty good, making tight bends on highway on and offramps fun to tackle.

    Choose the V speed rated tires as they have a stiffer sidewall and will provide better handling.

    The aggressive tread pattern also suits the style of the car, especially when parked with the wheels angled. (Ok, a little obsessive here, but isn't that what we are all here for? "Subaru's Anonymous")
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    I'm hoping someone here can give me a way to stop the metal shield around the exhaust pipe (coming out from the engine) from rattling. AZP said it could be removed, but I'd rather keep the protection it offers. It's as if a clamp wore away. I tried the old "duct tape can hold anything" trick, but that only lasted a day or two. I was thinking of trying to wrap wire around the 2 pieces of the shield. Any ideas?

    Mark
  • atomic_robotatomic_robot Member Posts: 26
    I had this problem on my '93 Legacy- loud rattle until warmed up; after that it was minimal. Much worse in cold weather.

    I tried everything I could think of (including ductape and wire) and eventually just took the darn thing off.

    I never really figured out if the noise was caused by the pieces rattling against each other, or against something else. If they're rattling off each other, could they be tacked together somehow? Wire never worked because it would loosen up after a short time from heat expansion, but maybe some kind of muffler repair epoxy along the seams would work.

    Good Luck!

    Chad
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    Can you get it tack welded?
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    or rivoted.

    -Dave
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    I used hose clamps until the rattle on my 98 Outback got so bad I couldn't take the embarrassment anymore. A dealer welded it/them and the rattle has been gone since September. It cost about $70 here in Minneapolis.

    Karl
  • rqzmdxrqzmdx Member Posts: 1
    Did you get any response back with your transmission problems?

    I have a 1999 Subaru Outback with automatic transmission and 71,000 miles with similar problem. When shifting from park to drive or reverse there is an intermittent delay. It's like getting stuck in neutral. This only happens when the vehicle is in complete stop. To get it going I usually rev the gas slightly and the transmission kicks in. Once it goes forward, transmission runs smoothly without any hesitation or any shifting problems between gears thereafter. Please also note that differential gear (front and rear) as well as the transmission fluids appear to be full.

    Any advice out there? I'm also concern whether it will be an expensive fix. Otherwise, it has been a great car.
  • orntornt Member Posts: 3
    I had to jumpstart my '97 Outback today and decided to replace the aging battery. The car was fine while I ran errands and picked up a new battery. Upon connecting the new battery the parking lights (front and back) and the glove compartment light started flashing. I can hear a selonoid clicking near the fuse box under the dash. The lights flash for several minutes, stop for 15 seconds or so, then start flashing again. Otherwise the car runs just fine. The only way to stop the flashing is to disconnect the battery. I put the old battery back in and the problem still exists. I've checked various switches and they are in the off position. Any ideas?
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    You should be able to stop the flashing by locking and unlocking the car using the keyless entry remote.

    DaveM
  • orntornt Member Posts: 3
    Thanks Dave. Worked like a charm.
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    I'll check into the welding. That's something I never thought of. As far as removing it, is there anything besides the metal that may be surrounding the pipe I should be worried about?

    Thanks,
    Mark
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    My 00 OB has had a rattling heat shield on the left downpipe (the first shield) for a year or so now. I crimped the two halves together tighter which worked for a short while, but now it's bad again. So I got under again and this time I could see that there are two spot welds on the top of the shield that are meant to hold it to the pipe. These are broken because if I grasp the shield (CAUTION - NOT IF HOT!) I can move it up and down slightly. The right one is completely rigid. The dealer-offered fix is to weld it or wedge it with something non-combustible. It's no longer covered by warranty.

    Because I was using a bright light, I also noticed oil leaks. The sump bolts at the front of the engine and the oil pan itself are quite oily, both the drive shaft seals are leaking slightly, and there is evidence of a slight leak on the upper left of the 5-speed transmission. I think these are all covered under the major component warranty still in effect. I have 44,000 km on the car.

    Has anyone experienced similar leaks? I think I remember some discussion about incorrect drive shaft grease from the factory.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    On the front end I bet it's the O-ring seal for the oil pump. Ask them to check there.

    Never seen a tranny leak though.

    -juice
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    Thanks Juice. Maybe I'll see if I can spot that before I take it in. I'll probably wait until summer because the dealership is opening a service shop much nearer to my home.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just keep an eye on the oil level and the temp guage.

    -juice
  • mjansen1mjansen1 Member Posts: 46
    Just received a check from SOA for a blown head gasket over a year ago around 62k. I think we paid around 25% of the bill since we were over 60K. SOA came through in the end (after a lot of work on my part). Need to get that special coolant added.
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Nice to hear that they took care of you, even if it was over an extended period of time. Just goes to show another example of Subaru's customer support.

    Mark
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's cool. Don't wait too long to have that conditioner added.

    -juice
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    It is entirely possible that something has gotten 'gummy' in the valve body due to deposits/dirt. When you rev the engine slightly, the pump pressure rises, and everything then moves into place. Before going for a teardown, I would suggest finding a shop that has the transmission solvent flush system. I have heard that it can work wonders in just such a situation. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

    Steve
  • K9LeaderK9Leader Member Posts: 112
    WtW2:

    I have a 2000 OBW Ltd. that I bought used in March 2003 with 32K on the odo. In the past few months I have noticed the same paint flaking and bubbling off on my front bumper (I have not noticed any problem with the "chrome" on my grill, though). There is a layer of paint very similar in color but somewhat dissimilar in metal flake graininess where the top coat has flaked off.

    I posted on this board a few weeks ago, and the consensus was that it had probably been repainted. If so, then the guy I bought it from conveniently omitted that information.

    Now, though, based on your post, it may be that this can occur even with the original paint. Where your paint is flaking off, what do you see underneath? Bare black plastic? Primer? Or more paint that is just a little bit different than the top coat?

    I haven't really spent too much time on this problem -- I've got too many other irons in the fire. But, I'm a teacher, and summer break is coming, so I may have some time to fuss over this in a few weeks.

    K9Leader
    Newark, Delaware
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I bet you're seeing the clear coat flake off. The color's still there.

    Just my guess.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    K9 leader, didn't realize you were in Newark, DE you should have met us during the 48hrs in Philly and down to the ferry in DE!

    -mike
  • deepdropdeepdrop Member Posts: 89
    I was surprised to see that the JD Powers rating for the "02 Outback VDC was not very good (2-3/5) and the Edmund's rating was only 7.2/10. I have an "03 Forester and I love it. We are moving to New Hampshire and I want to get a car for my wife. We are looking at a 2002 Outback VDC with 35,000 miles. It looks like we can buy it for about $19,000 but I'm concerned about the JD Powers rating. Are there any know issues that I should check out on this car before I buy it from a private seller? Thanks for any advice.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------ -------
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Don't forget that the # of VDCs sold is very small, so that any "bad" mark will be exentuated by that fact.

    -mike
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Mike, you'll enjoy this. I attempted to replace my pads and rotors today. Took the day off. Front right first. Wheel off, caliper off. Next is the caliper bracket. Went to remove the lower bolt and, snap, the bolt head breaks off. So I remove the bracket and compared my new rotor to the old. The new one is ~0.5 inches smaller in diameter. Wrong one. So I take the bracket, via my bicycle, to an auto store machine shop over in the next town. No problem, he removes the broken bolt. However, he doesn't have any replacement bolts left. Calls another store and sure enough they have one. Only problem is it's the next town further away. So back on the bike with this 10 pound bracket on my back to the next town for the bolt. I then had to bike all the way home. I am writing this with sore legs and the old pads and rotors still on the car and a vacation day used up. Oh, and I came home to see my back yard being ripped up for a pool we are trying to install. :)

    Greg
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Stop by on saturday and I'll hook yah up if you want.... Told yah it's easier sometimes to get people like us to do em.

    We had the same problem recently actually, our supplier sent us the wrong rotors for an OBS, had to go get a set at pepboys on the fly.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Too bad you don't have a 2nd car. When I work on one, inevitably I forget something, and have the other to make a parts run.

    -juice
  • blackbeanblackbean Member Posts: 100
    Last year I went to replace my '02 Bean front rotors with new EBC rotors from TireRack (hoping they would be more warp resistant) - but sure enough, when I went to put them on, they were too small! Lucky I didn't break any bolts - but the thought did cross my mind as I tried to break those free!

    Now with 26k, I am getting that pulsing from highway speed braking. Hopefully dealer will replace (again) under warranty at 30k check-up.

    STILL looking for better aftermarket rotors though.
    Cheers
    Matt
  • pathtomaxpathtomax Member Posts: 215
    Hello,

    I was wondering the opinion out there on the mid-service levels. I have 48k on my '01 and my service people are suggesting this service. When I went to the mysubaru.com site the services listed are pretty slim:
    Inspect Steering and suspension
       
       
      Inspect Clutch operation
       
       
      Perform Inspect brake lines and check operation of parking and service brake system
       
       
      Inspect Disc brake pads and discs, front and rear axle boots and axle shaft joint portions
       
       
      Replace Engine oil filter
       
       
      Replace Engine oil
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'm not sure what size the rotors are for the Outbacks if they are smaller or larger than the WRX, but you might want to find the brackets for the WRX and put on a set of WRX rotors. There are several rotors out there that are upgrades for them. Also try Mountain Rotors as they have been very warp-resistant for the applications I've installed them in.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's actually changed at least once. I think the 2000's rotors were sort of small, then they got bigger a year or two later. Beyond that, I think the VDC's brakes are bigger than the ones on the base Outback, but I could be wrong.

    -juice
  • blackbeanblackbean Member Posts: 100
    Yes, the Bean and VDC rotors got bigger (in 2001 I think).
    After reading the posts on the rotors, got me thinking that maybe they have some of the larger aftermarket rotors available now. TireRack now shows EBC and PowerSlot rotors available for the Bean and VDC. I emailed PowerSlot to make sure these would fit. They said yes, but their website said they make their rotors from Subaru parts! Here is my email and their response. What do you all think???
    Matt

    On the website, it says your rotors are made from "OE blanks" - so, can I expect these to have any better warp resistance than stock Subaru rotors?

    "POWER SLOT rotors are OE blanks but our exclusive Vac-U-Slot design
    sheds heat and gasses faster while maintaining a clean pad surface,
    significantly reducing brake fade. When paired with a high performance,semi-metallic brake pad you will see quicker stops, less fade, and extended pad/rotor life. However rotors are a wear item and wear like tires so eventually you will have to replace them. But POWER SLOTs should at least double if not triple in miles compared to the OEMs already on your car. Warping should not be a problem as long as you use the correct brake pads and install them correctly."
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Sounds like baloney to me. Especially if they use OEM rotors to start, which have already been machined and heat treated (so 99% of the thermal characteristics are set in stone). If they just machine some slots in the surface, I see low value in that.

    Craig
  • blackbeanblackbean Member Posts: 100
    Craig
    That is my initial reaction as well. I was *hoping* they used a more structurally sound metal compostion or something. Oh well, I'll keep looking.
    Matt
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Mike, thanks for the offer, but I needed to get the car inspected this week and my life is so crazy right now I'm thinking of going on strike. So I ended up purchasing OEM and having the shop next to my work install them (he does good work, mainly on German cars).

    It turns out that Subaru made a change mid year 01 and went with larger rotors. When I returned the after market rotors today (which seemed to be good quality) the auto store looked it up and concluded that next time I should order 02 year rotors for my 01 model car which he said are larger. Comparing the 2 it appears Subaru has some kind of coating on the rotors and it also appeared the after market rotors seemed a little thicker at the expense of the slot area, but I didn't measure it and it could have been an optical illusion. So does that make my car an 02 now??

    Greg
  • gearhead4gearhead4 Member Posts: 122
    I like that PowerSlot takes Subaru OEM rotors and upgrades them. Any rotor will be improved by proper machining.

    The biggest single cause of rotor failure is overheating. By putting slots in the rotors, the surface area of the rotor is increased, which allows greater heat dissipation to the surrounding air.
    In addition, the slots allow the brakes pads to be cleansed by carrying away dirt that would otherwise be trapped between the pad and the rotor surface.

    That being said, it is very important that the rotor is not weakened by removing too much of the original material. In addition, the rotors must remain balanced. So I wouldn't recommend that you just take your rotors to your drill press and start drilling.

    gearhead4
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I don't think the slots add that much surface area compared to what the rotor already has. Since heat transfer is going to depend directly on the surface area, it would have to increase quite a bit (say 10-15% or more) to really make a significant impact in my opinion.

    Craig
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    They use OE rotors and mill them down. :(

    How are the VDC rotors compared in size to WRX ones? If they are the same size you can try the racingbrake.com ones, so far we've been running them at the track on long hard sessions w/o overheating nor any pad transfer problems. They are made of an upgraded material (nickle alloy IIRC) and are quite stout.

    Most rotors NEVER EVER warp, they get pad transfer which causes raised areas in the surface of the rotor and APPEAR to warp, however re-bedding in your pads and/or lightly sanding the rotors and pads will clear it up.

    -mike
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