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Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    Original RE92 tires replaced at 40k.

    RE92 takeoffs from a WRX were the second set of tires. I believe they already had about 3k on them, I replaced them at 80k, (net of 43k on these tires).

    Could have kept either set a bit longer, but winter was near.

    '00 Legacy sedan.

    Jim
  • jay_24jay_24 Member Posts: 536
    "for the first mile after I leave my house its all 25 mph zones with lots of stop signs. Then maybe a mile or so of 40-35 with several traffic lights. Then 3 miles of all stop and go, occasional spurts of acceleration up to 40, but not for long."

    That is very similar to my wifes drive taking the kids to school with our Chevy Tahoe (14-15 mpg). 2 miles at 25mph with 4 stop signs.
    1 mile of 65mph. (interstate to cross river)
    A stop light, then 3 miles of 50mph. 5 miles of 30mph with 4 stop signs.
    Going shopping around town is even worse with top speed at 35 and more stop signs/lights.

    These 4 banger engines should get better mpg.

    I'm happy with the 27 I get but its mostly highway driving. Maybe the AWD just has too much drag? My parents big pig Buick gets better mpg than me. Granted its not nearly as fun to drive.

    --jay
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    I know my friend lives in Brooklyn, where the speeed limit is 30. Figure with all the stop and go for the neighborhoods he is driving through that he is averaging around 25 mph with stop and go. That could very well cause low mileage. To me 13 mpg seemed too low, even under those circumstances.
       He'll see how it goes with highway driving this coming weekend. He's taking a nice leisurley drive up to Buffalo, so hopefully he should see improvement.

    Mark
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    What I left out of my post was that on all highway driving, at a steady 75 w/ac on, I'm almost at 24 mpg - so figure a at least a 50% increase in mileage from 16 to 24. From 14 to 24 its even higher (71%).

    My wife's OBW is much more consistent - 18-20 around town (she has exactly the same commute as I do) and 25-26 highway.

    I don't know whether to feel bummed out by jay's post or be happy his Tahoe's got such good around town mil age :<)

    Larry
  • martijnhmartijnh Member Posts: 24
    Happy owner of 2 Subaru family here (2000 OB Ltd and 2002 Forester S). The 6 CD changer in the OB has died (sniff). I have tried to replace it but the replacement changer I bought from Ebay was also faulty. Ugh.

    I'm contemplating buying another CD changer (lots of $$ but I like the factory look) or attempting to wire an IPod into the factory stereo. It should be possible to hook one up so it acts as the CD changer. I found some info on the internet, but was wondering if anybody here has experience doing this?

    Thanks!
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Does your Outback radio have a cassette?? My old 2000 did. If so, try a cassette adapter. The sound quality is actually very good. This is the rig I used on my old Outback and it was great.

    With some experimentation, you could probably use the CD changer jack on the stereo. You'd have to find the pinouts for the audio signal and figure out how to trigger than input. If we had a schematic of the jack, it would be cake!

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    46k is a lot for the RE92s, generally. I've heard of some on WRXs lasting only 26k.

    We only have 27k or so right now on the ones on our Legacy L (2002).

    -juice
  • ejharaejhara Member Posts: 8
    In reply to David about the original equipment tires (RE92's): Shortly after buying my new Legacy SE wagon, I checked the RE92's out on Tirerack's web site. Most owner reports were quite negative, especially concerning their wet/snow traction. So, for the first time in my car-buying life, I replaced the tires immediately, as we drive frequently in northern Michigan's snow country. (The replacements were Continental Extreme Contacts.)

    I am very happy with the new tires in all kinds of driving, and was happy that I could sell the take-offs easily. My suggestion is to read the extensive road tests results and owners' reviews at Tirerack.com before you make any tire decisions.

    Other than the oem tires, I've been happy with the new Legacy. As contrasted with the 2001 Legacy Outback I had, the new car seems to have a bit less acceleration, same mileage (22-26), and a slightly different ride, probably due to the smaller (and harder?)tires on the new one. It cruises up I-75 easily: I have to watch exceeding 80 or more.

    Overall, the car is a great value, and I haven't any regrets in buying it. There were two glitches in the buying process, though: One, the salesman said we were getting a weatherband radio, and we didn't. Also, replacement weatherbands were not available for this car. Two, the air didn't work at all. When I took it in, the service manager opened the hood, flipped a switch, and sent me on my way in two minutes. Said that their delivery people neglected sometimes to change this switch from the shipping mode.

    I hope this note helps David and others with tire decisions, and some others are interested in my 0 to 9000 miles Subaru experiences.
  • mrk610mrk610 Member Posts: 378
    How do you like your new tires . I'm al'so looking at the conti's. the only neg reviews I can find are about the way the tires flat spot very quick when sitting . They also say that the flat spotting goes away after a couples of miles . Have yours exibited this behavior . I'm at 46 k on my re92s and they are very loud and wet traction sucks . The funny thing is that I have about 1/2 the tread left on them .

    thanks for yor comments
    mikek in south jersey
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    I have about 17k on these and have not noticed flat spotting. However, 1) I run my tires at +4 psi so they are probably less prone to flat spotting and 2) my car doesn't sit very many days w/o being driven.

    Very pleased with these tires.

    Jim
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I'm with you on this one! I only have 25k on my '02 OBW, and RE92's share time with my snows, so I don't think they have broken 20k yet. Now I realize that the storms we have been having this summer in the NE have been quite excessive, but I am becoming increasingly concerned about the hydroplaning at still more than half tread. I will probably run them thru the fall, go to the snows for winter, and consider new tires in the spring.

    Steve
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    It's got me beat why Subaru in the US don't fit a mud/snow tyre as they do out of Japan.

    Australian spec Outbacks come with Yokohama Geolanders that run about 50,000km (30,000 miles) My latest set have now run 45,000km and have probably 15,000km left on them. Wet weather performance is still very good.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • xvimbixvimbi Member Posts: 1
    Hi y'all - I have looked through a lot of messages, but couldn't find a concise answer. I hope you'll be so kind and let me know your personal opinion about which new tires to get for my 2000 Outback.

    I'm in Texas, so driving on snow will only be occasional. I am mostly interested in all-season tires with a good ride and low noise. I also thought about going to the largest tires possible (18"?). And, of course, I don't want to spend an arm and a leg.

    Any good suggestions? Thanks so much in advance.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Graham, it does seem odd indeed. Our Foresters come with the Geolanders, but not the Outbacks. Also, our Outbacks come with a larger 225 size tire, and no full-size spare. Our Foresters have the 215 size tire and a full-size spare.

    Bob
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    I had Michelin MXV4's on my 01 Outback and absolutely loved them...probably the best tires I have had. Most of my driving is on the highway in the mountains between Reno and Sacramento, and I found the MXV4's to be amazingly quiet, with great rain and snow performance, too. Their handling was very secure, even in high speed corners on the highway. There are other sportier (and cheaper) tires out there, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy those tires again.

    Brian
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    the price.

    Krzys
  • mudhenmudhen Member Posts: 1
    On my 2002 OB, I replaced the original RE92's at 67,900 miles. They were still legal. I drive all over heck and back here in CA, so I was a bit surprised they held up so well.

    Researching tires is fun! Everyone has a crazy story to tell about what tire did what!

    Based upon many reports, I narrowed it down to Bridgestone RE950's and Toyo TPT's. My tire dealer could not get 4 matching Toyos, so I went with the RE950's.

    No problems so far, they ride nice and firm. But only time will tell.

    mudhen - CA
  • ejharaejhara Member Posts: 8
    mikek in south jersey,

    So far, so good on the tires. They are speed-rated for much faster than this 2004 Legacy Wagon would ever go, and I feel they handle quite well on a dry highway at high speeds. The wet traction seems very good; the snow traction is okay, but probably not up to some soft rubber Continentals I had at one time. The price of these new Continental Extreme Contacts was reasonable, and I'd buy them again.

    There is one interesting development: They are directional tires, so rotating them according to the dealer's service schedule will be interesting--can't do them the regular way, and have to just move them same side/front to back.

    I've noticed no flat spotting so far.

    Good luck!
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    On Subarus, you are supposed to only do front to back rotations no matter what type of tire (even bi-directional tires). No side to side swaps.

    Craig
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Learn something new every day.

    I've been too lazy to do an X rotation for years on any of my cars anyway, so I guess I'm covered on my Outback.

    Steve, Host
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I am probably going to get a lot of flack for this one, but here goes.....

    Our owners manuals stipulate a lot of rules, most of which make sense and I follow, or at least consider closely. Tire pressures, tire 1/4" wear limits, lug torque, wheel size and offsets, spare use, etc. All seem to be based on good engineering judgement (me like good engineering...). But I have a real problem with the tire rotation statement. Yes, Craig is right (P44 in the last section in my manual). Same side only, front to back.

    For 20 years, tire mfgrs were concerned about radial plies taking a set and delaminating if reversed. Witness the Firestone 500.... Nobody preaches that any more. Michelin never did. They even launched a major campagne some years back telling dealers to ignore the statement found in most owners manuals and do cross-rotation, unless the tread design dictated a directional rotation.

    I have directional snows (Dunlop Wintersport), and do of course follow those instructions. But the Brig RE92 carry no such warning. Can anybody offer up an informed reason as to why Subaru states otherwise? I am certainly open to listening to a good argument, but in the meantime, I will continue doing front to rears on same side, then X when moving rears to front.

    Steve
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    When it comes to this, I'm hoping the vehicle manufacturer knows best. Okay, that's a big leap of faith :<).

    Seriously, Subaru's been doing AWD for so long I'd like to think they understand the relationship between the tires wearing coupled with the drivetrain effects.

    Larry
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I always thought it was related to AWD. Given that Subaru has other tire tolerances/requirements, I always figured it was an AWD thing.

    Craig
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I would certainly be curious as to what other AWD makers recommend. I just don't see it. I can understand how tire condition affects the wear of AWD mechanical components. But I don't get how driving all 4 wheels changes tire wear and ply set in a substantial way. The suggestion is that if you then rotated the tires this would then adversely change either handling or mechanical system wear?? Something is missing here...

    Steve
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I suspect it relates to the circumference issue; I bet someone in engineering thinks that an X rotation doesn't wear the tires down at the same rate as front to back.

    I just do same side rotations because it's more convenient since I usually do it myself.

    Steve, Host
  • rob999rob999 Member Posts: 233
    Have similar tire rotation recommendation for AWD systems. GM recommends this for the SmartTrak (?) system used in the Bravada and others.

    (Someone I know) was not too particular about mix-n-matching tires on their Bravada and the transfer case failed.
  • blackbeanblackbean Member Posts: 100
    My RE92's were replaced at 20k. They were horrible in the wet and were beginning to hydroplane. After MUCH research, I went with the Bridgestone RE950 for a balance between, cost, performance and treadlife (Paid only $400 at Costco!). They are night and day better! I almost didn't get them because I didn't believe they would significantly better than the OE tires. They stick like glue in the rain and take on standing water at highway speed without any problems.

    I also use the Dunlop WinterSports. Very happy with them as well.
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    The Bridgestone Turanza LS (comes in T, H, and V ratings) gets rave reviews at Tirerack. I got some for my Dads Avalon and wifes Venture, have been great so far. Its either a V rated Turanza or a Pirelli P zero Nero when I need new 16inchers for my WRX.
  • alchemy2alchemy2 Member Posts: 6
    Our '02 Legacy/Outback had the clutch wear out at 49K. We smelled something evertime we backed the car out of our uphill driveway. We have been driving manual shift cars for over 25yrs and never had one fail this early. Usually >110K. I know we should have taken it in to our Subaru dealer but we didn't for one reason or another. Since SOA doesn't cover clutches on their transmission warranty, we had it repaired by a third party transmission shop that has been in business for >25yrs. The repair cost us ~$1000 (included new flywheel). They told us that their parts supplier recently has seen a high demand for Subaru Outback clutches. Also if you look carefully at the 2005 Outback advertising, you seen that the clutch has been re-inforced or improved. So my basic question is do I have any recourse to SOA for my clutch failure and why are Subaru clutches failing prematurely? I live in Northern NJ.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    There was a tech service bulletin (TSB) on this, and you could have had it repaired for free under warranty (assuming your problem was the one that the TSB covered, which is a good bet).

    The clutch plate friction material was problematic, and it was worse in damp or humid weather, even worse in the cold. The problem was known as judder. Over time, the judder problem would eventually damage the flywheel as well (created hotspots).

    I believe this affected several Japanese manufacturers who used the same clutch supplier.

    Revised clutch parts were released along with the TSB in January 03, if I remember right. It seems to have fixed the problem.

    My parents 2000 Outback had the same problem, and they were able to get it taken care of under the TSB without any hassles. The car has been fine since.

    I am guessing that you are out of luck since you went through a 3rd party for the service, but you never know. Wouldn't hurt to call the Subaru 1-800 number and ask them about it. They are ususally very nice to deal with, and will bend over backwards to help you if it's at all possible. I do suspect you may be out of luck though.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Were you having issues with the judder/chatter? In other words, would the car shake a bit when you'd launch it?

    Some Miatas had the same issue.

    The number you want is 800-SUBARU3, but it would have been better to call before you changed it.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Tough question. The EJ22 engine was used all the way up to 2001, in the Impreza line. The catch is the harness and the ECU may be different, so I'm not sure they would just plug-and-play like that.

    Is mike around, paisan I mean? He has a 2.2l and knows much more about those than I do.

    -juice

    I'd get one of the same year and same transmission. I'm swapping my dad's 97 2.2L Legacy L engine with the same year motor etc. Makes life easier.

    -mike
  • terrapinctterrapinct Member Posts: 2
    Hi, has anyone been able to figure out how to manually open the rear sunshade w/o opening the moonroof? Alot of times i'd like to let the light in for my kids w/o opening the moonroof.

    I can only get the sunshade to retrack when the moonroof is opened. Doesn't make sense to me.

    Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks!
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    What year car? On my 02, it was possible to open the sunshade without opening the moonroof, both front and rear.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Is yours an aftermarket moonroof?

    I ask because some do, some don't. I test drove a Saturn Vue Redline and the shade did not move independently from the glass.

    These guys sell "recycled" Subaru parts:

    http://www.fsautoparts.com/

    -juice
  • hoggchoggc Member Posts: 4
    02-5spd Outback with 70K(Km). @55K it started burning Oil overnight. Never lost a drop in between services before that. Doing an Official Oil Consumption report with Dealer right now. Good Dealer happy with their service. I have been told that the entire length of the Dipstick to which they marked it (1" 7/8) is ~half a litre/quart. I read posts on this board on how to properly check oil and such. I am wondering if anyone can substantiate that claim. Prior to the dealer initiating the Oil Consump Test I had to put in 2 quarts within 5000 KM. When doing so, I thought that the length of the dipstick was much greater than half a quart.
    Thanks in advance
    Chris
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I thought it was a quart between the empty and full marks?? It should say in teh owner's manual. That would pertain to a cold engine only, of course. Checking oil on a warm boxer engine is always error prone -- oil gets up in the dipstick tube while the engine is running and makes it hard to get an accurate reading.

    CRaig
  • hoggchoggc Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for the input Craig.No mention in the owners manual other than overall oil capacity.
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Figured to post an up date from my friend reagarding his 03 OBW. On his road trip this past weekend, he was able to get 21+mpg. A definite improvement over the 13mpg he was complaining about. I told him it just proves he has to DRIVE the car, not just sit in it.

    Mark
  • mrk610mrk610 Member Posts: 378
    Thanks all of you for your comments . I still like the conti's. I have also been looking at the GY triple tread,and the potenza re950's .I really need a all season tire. I don't want to invest in a winter tire .Here in South Jersey we get some snow and I go to the mountains skiing 3or 4 times a year . So i don't think I really need to get winter tires . I think I'm going to wait untill about Nov or Dec to get tires . Thne I'll be ready for the winter .

    Thanks again
    Mike k In South jersey
  • keith53keith53 Member Posts: 4
    Hi. Dumb question I know but how do you check the ATF level in a Outback ('01 6 cyl). The manual says there's a dipstick on the right side of the engine (looking from the front) near the firewall, but for the life of me I can't find it. Thanks for any responses.

    Keith
  • mrk610mrk610 Member Posts: 378
    On my 02 outback 4cly the dipstick is acually down behind the engine right at the trans case . It is very hard to find .
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It is yellow, at least.

    On the manual trannies, it's on the other side, i.e. passenger side on the top of the transmission tunnel.

    It's a long reach but you can reach it. It's also where you add gear oil.

    -juice
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    hee hee... as time passes it's engine color :o)

    It needs a guide rope to find ;-)

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OCD Club Members have to clean their engine bays once in a while. :-)

    Actually, after changing my gear oil I cleaned mine. Misted on some Simple Green and then hosed it off with a gentle spray. It's impossible not to spill at least some gear oil, given the reach.

    -juice
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    21+ mpg is still pretty bad. I usually get 24 to 25 on my 60 mile RT mostly highway commute.

    I just took a road trip with my '03 OBW A/T (33k miles) and got from 27 to 31 mpg. A/C on. No cruise - tried to use it but found out it didn't work :(

    27.5 from home to Vince Lombardi service plaza in North Jersey via PA TP from Valley Forge and NJ TP.

    29+ mpg from Vince Lombardi service plaza to Maine (via NH) - drove the NJ TP to 18W; over the GW bridge; Major Deegan, Hutchinson, Merrit, and Wilbur Cross parkways; I-91; I-84; Mass TP; I-495; I-93; then local 2 lane roads to Mt. Washington area, then into Maine the next day. My speed on the interstates and parkways was probably 65 to 75. Three people with luggage.

    31 mpg - local roads between NH and Maine. Three to four people with some heavy luggage.

    26.5 mpg - RT Mt. Washington area to Woodstock, VT via local roads. Four people; no luggage. Heavy rain on return trip.

    29.5 mpg - From Mt. Washington area to Newburgh, NY via local roads across NH; I-91 in VT, MA, CT; I-84 across CT, NY. Four people and loaded with luggage to the top of the rear headrests.

    28 mpg - From Newburgh, NY to SE PA via I-84 across NY, PA; local roads thru the Poconos to home. Four people and loaded with luggage to the top of the rear headrests.

    DaveM
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I normally buy a section of hardwall poly tube about 3-4 feet long. Put one end down in the filler/dipstick tube, and hold the other out away from the car where I can get comfortable. Then just squeeze it in. No hassle, no mess!

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Same here, I have a long tube also, my problem was keeping the end of it inside the fill hole! It kept slipping out. I even had a clip (from the end of an oil pump I have) but that kept slipping.

    I think I need a smaller diameter tube.

    -juice
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Dave,

        I agree it should be better, but at least it was an improvement for him. Prior to this trip he had just hit 5000 miles; he put another 1000 on jsut from this trip. I think if he uses the car for more than the streets of Brooklyn, that the mileage would improve. Heck, take a drive on the Belt Parkway (at around 8 am on a cloudy Sunday morning that is).

    Mark
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Yeah, tell him to get out of the city. :)

    DaveM
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