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Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    If I had a ten year old junk box, sure Mickey and Minnie Mouse are fine. But on a brand new car, I beg to disagree - new car, this price range, I wouldn't care if its intermittent or not - I'd be looking up lemon law details now. That's why they have lemon laws, for problems that can't / won't be fixed by the mfr.

     

    To Subaru for abandoning a non-starting car because they lack the technical expertise to trouble shoot it, Shame On You.

     

    Anyone heard if Subaru is giving us a Patti replacement for the forum's issues?

     

    Larry
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I tend to agree with you on Jun's issue that SOA is ultimately responsible to provide a car that starts. However, this happened to my wife's Mazda a couple times -- she couldn't get it to start, but it fired right up for me -- so I am almost suspecting there may be some wierd user/error going on. Regardless, Subaru should be able to diagnose the problem no matter what the cause. I'd be pretty frustrated if it was me.

     

    On your ticking noise -- did it start right after the oil change, or did you have it previously??

     

    Craig
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Isn't the '05s Legacy GT & OBXT equipped with the key immobilizer?

     

    IIRC, the non-start occurs when cold.

    Maybe the cold is affecting the conductivity between ignition cylinder and key that the chip in the key isn't getting juiced up to transmit the codes?

     

    -Dave
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    craig - the ticking valve noise has been there forever - or should I say the "light" sewing machine noise. Pretty comfortable with that being the lifters. Also, that noise is a true clattering sound since its more than one lifter.

     

    The deeper ticking noise, at a lower frequency, seems to be a single mechanical noise. I thought I heard it a couple of times when she's started the car in the last few weeks (I'm used to all the "usual" noises because I'm sitting in the kitchen having my coffee when she starts the car). You can hear this noise in the kitchen (25ft or so) w/no problem. The hard part I had was isolating it.

     

    BTW, Blackstone's last analysis said I could "push" the oil changes to at least 4k w/no problem, so I let this one go to about 3800.

     

    Larry
  • andrewkandrewk Member Posts: 59
    I had my '05 OB for a total of 9 days when I caught a rock or pebble I never even saw. Of course it chipped the windshield. Back in '99 same thing happen to my 2 week old GMC Sierra. Fortuntely, both were succesfully repair/sealed/stabilized and neither required replacement.
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,818
    "If I had a ten year old junk box, sure Mickey and Minnie Mouse are fine."

     

    Mickey Mouse beats not being able to get to work. I'm not suggesting living with this forever, I'm suggesting an alternative.

     

    Flatbedding the car to the dealership is nonsense when, as seems to be the case here, the bouncing and jostling makes the symptom disappear.

     

    I'd keep up on the documentation, I'd learn EXACTLY how Lemon Law works in my state, but I'd also try to have a backup for when the car doesn't start, and I think you have an obligation to work with your dealer, as much as he has to work with you.

     

    Next time, get a tech to the car, not the other way round. And I'd still get the switch, but that's me.

     

    -Mathias
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Jun,

     

    I posted additional details to you over in Problems & Solutions earlier today. SoA must insist that the tech come to the car and catch it in the act. Everyone is wasting time and money bringing the car to the shop.

     

    Steve
  • blandreblandre Member Posts: 1
    i have had to replace 3 out of 4 of the fuel injectors in my 2000 OB 2.5 L. my dealer serviceman says he has never seen this problem. what could be the cause ? the first time i had one replaced, a mechanic suggested that using premium fuel would prevent a recurrence, but i've mostly heard that that shouldn't make a difference.

     

    what gives ?
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    Are they clogged or dead? If the fuel filter hasn't been replaced lately, I'd try that. If the thing keeps popping injectors, either you've got a bad batch (wasn't there something posted about a bunch of bad fuel injectors at the dealers?), or there's a strange electrical problem going on.

     

    HTH

    Larry
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    I bet they have to threaten to invoke the lemon law before anyone dispatches a tech on site. I've never seen a dealer willingly do that yet.

     

    As to the switch, I can see a dealer invalidating the entire claim because they hooked up anything to the electrical system. I'd agree that's not fair, and dirty pool, but I've seen dealers use any, and every, excuse to get out of a claim.

     

    It's fairly obvious the dealer doesn't want to play anymore and is going to need a nudge (or lemon law threat) to proceed further.

     

    Larry
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Call 800-SUBARU3 and ask what SoA can do to help first.

     

    When you get adversarial the dealers clam up and stop helping, you tend to get nowhere.

     

    Just my unscientific observation.

     

    -juice
  • orangelebaronorangelebaron Member Posts: 435
    Now my HVAC system in my 05 Oyback is making a flittering noise that's getting more pronounced. Thinking it was debris or leaves, I cycled through all the modes and fan speeds over and over with no avail. Sounds like something is coming loose? Anyone else get that?

     

    It is getting so irritating I don't want to turn on the heat.

    What is it? Did I just call my car an Oyback? That's funny!
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,818
    "When you get adversarial the dealers clam up and stop helping, you tend to get nowhere. "

    Bingo.

    Once you're on solid ground with Lemon Law so they HAVE to take it back, you can do whatever. Until then, you have to play ball.

     

    The switch I'm talking about is just a couple alligator clamps, not permanent, and does not hook into the vehicle's electrical system. Just supplies 12V to the starter solenoid.

     

    -Mathias

    (who always likes to have a Plan B)
  • stantontstantont Member Posts: 148
    Hey folks,

     

    I am about to install the factory subwoofer on my '02 Legacy wagon. I have the written instructions from the website and the illustrated ones that came with the subwoofer, but both cover AT cars, not the MT. Since the MT shift boot is not the same as the AT slider cover, I am a bit stumped. How does the boot/console come off? Anyone been there/done that?

     

    A reply in the next few minutes would be great if anyone can do that; I am about to head out the door and give it a try.

     

    Stanton
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I did it to replace my wife's stereo.

     

    IIRC you start at the back of the center console, there should be screws once you lift up the center arm rest.

     

    I don't remember the details, and didn't take pictures because Pat and/or bitman had showed me photos and instructions I had printed, but I didn't save the URL.

     

    I do recall that I removed the shift knob, and that the console lifted up and out.

     

    I wish I'd taken photos. The info might have come from Scoobymods? That sounds familiar for some reason.

     

    Just don't pry, nothing was hard to remove, and if you use force you might crack the plastics.

     

    -juice
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    A few years ago I took my car in because the HVAC fan was making a strange noise and it wouldn't blow air on "RECIRC". It turns out that the air inlet is located inside the glove box, and I had placed some napkins in there which were sucked up into the fan when I put the HVAC into Recirc. After removing the wad of napkins, all was well again. Perhaps something got sucked up into the intake on your 05 OB?
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    I had 2 of the fuel injectors replaced last January on my 2000 OBW. This happened at the end of last years 48hrs run when my check engine light came on, and stayed on for several days. They never did determine what caused it, but it took them a while to figure out that it was the injectors. Suabru covered everything under warranty, and no problems since.

     

    Mark
  • gearhead4gearhead4 Member Posts: 122
    Larry,

     

    I was experiencing a lower frequency noise from my 2003 Legacy. The noise was somewhat irregular.

     

    My Subaru mechanic used his 18" screwdriver to diagnose the noise as a rattling cam belt tensioner. He replaced the tensioner and that noise was gone.

     

    Maybe that is your problem.

     

    Good luck.

     

    -Jim
  • bozman9bozman9 Member Posts: 15
    Has anyone else had this problem? I'm hoping that it is just a weak spring on mine. We brought home a brand new '05 Outback last night. When closing the glove box from the driver's seat (i.e., pushing up on the left side of the glove box), it doesn't stay closed. If I purposefully push from the middle and do it slowly it usually closes (but not all the time).

     

    I'm going to bring it up to the dealer next time we bring it in; wanted to make sure it wasn't a widespread flaw.

     

    Thanks,

     

    Jason Boswell
  • martinmmartinm Member Posts: 1
    What a great resource this is!!! So here's to my situation. I just bought a used 96 Legacy Outback 2.5L DOHC automatic.

    I took it to my mechanic and he fixed some problems however some still linger:

     

    (1) The keyless entry doesn't work (the remote control that is). Also, when unlocking/locking the driver's side door with a key or from the inside, not all the doors unlock/lock. I know they should and I can hear a sound as if they are trying but no luck. Is there a fuse or something that I should look to change? Any way to diagnose the problem?

     

    (2)The car idles a little high after running for a while. When stationary, the car idles a little rough at around 6-800 RPM when i first get in it. However, the longer i drive it, the higher it idles. If it's in drive, it never idles more then 1k RPM. However, if I stop and put it in park or neutral, it usually idles at 1.5k RPM. The mechanic said there is air getting into a valve so fixing it would mean reconstructing the engine. He said it's not a problem and something I'll just have to get used to. Any thoughts?

     

    (3)Finally, the past two days i've noticed that when i'm not moving or moving very slowly, my temperature gauge goes up to a very high level. However, when I start driving faster, it goes back down to normal (1/3 from the lowest setting). I've read that this is probably a sticking thermostat so I plan on replacing that myself. Any other thoughts?

     

    Thanks in advance for the help, it's really appreciated!!!

     

    Martin
  • occkingoccking Member Posts: 346
    Bosman, that happened a few times to me also. Thought I might have caught something in the door but that was not the case. I will run out now for a short while & try it a few times. Let you know....
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,759
    1. Not sure about the keyless entry, I don't have it. I am assuming the battery in the remote is new? However, the door problem is common to Subarus as they age. I have the same problem. The easiest fix for it is to move to a climate where it is colder than 0F all the time. It always works at those temps. The more practical fix is to remove the driver's door panel and adjust the mechanism, though I haven't done it myself. I just live with it and curse at the car when it happens. If you lock/unlock the driver's door about 1-1000 times in quick succession, it will usually unlock the other doors at some point. ;-D

     

    2. Not sure. It may be worth taking a look at the timing to see if everything is aligned correctly.

     

    3. Temp running hot during idle and good during higher RPMs, or is it independent of RPMS and literally when the car is in motion at slow speeds? If it is RPM-dependent, I would guess that it is a water pump issue. Mine acted similarly on two separate occasions before it bit the hay altogether. It may be the pump itself, or the timing belt or tensioner may be due for replacement and it is slipping on the surface of the pump pulley. The contact is not "tooth regulated" on the surfact of the pump and it can slip more easily than on the cam sprockets.

     

    I've never had a thermostat sort-of not work. They either do or they don't and if they don't, the car overheats. That's the only reason I tend to not favor the thermostat idea. The pump controls the flow of coolant, so if that isn't working properly, it can slow the flow of coolant and affect the temperature without necessarily leading directly to a serious overheating of the engine.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Yeah, numerous people have complained about this, and it happened to me once. Apparently, the latch on the door is sticking, so instead of closing the door repeatedly (as I tried), wiggle the lever a few times and see if it helps. Only happened to me that one time.

     

    Craig
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    3) This is exactly how my 98 Outback behaved when the head gaskets were leaking. Hope that it is only a water pump and not this.
  • bozman9bozman9 Member Posts: 15
    Thanks for the response. I will try that and see if it helps.

     

    -Jason
  • subdensubden Member Posts: 40
    Maybe I missed something, but it sounded to me per his e-mail,like Jun had already filed a case with SoA.

     

    And the dealer has already basically quit helping (unless it will agree NOW to send a tech out the next time it won't start and I seriously doubt it will agree to do this). So I would definitely take it to the next step with the Utah Department as you JUN) intends to do the next time it won't start. The dealer is basically saying it's a SoA problem, go away.

     

    A caveat..make sure you follow all SoA administrative procedures (usually outlined in your warranty book) for resolving these types of issues. Failure to do so is called "failure to exhaust administrative remedies" and can make it difficult legally to pursue any subsequent legal action.

     

    If you are convinced the dealer has just washed its hands of your car, then you can put pressure on the dealer in the meantime by filing a complaint with the local BBB. Hopefully the dealer then goes back and puts pressure on SoA.

     

    I definitely would not tolerate this on a new car and would definitely not start trying to fix it yourself..that WILL give them a reason not to have to honor a warranty.

     

    And document..document..document in writing and hopefully with a witness when the car does not start AND all contact with the dealer and SoA. You will need it if you ultimately have to go to the mat legally with SoA and/or the dealer.

     

    Just my advice after having had to wrangle with two other manufacturers over the years.
  • stantontstantont Member Posts: 148
    Under (3), the car running hot when going very slowly, sounds like failure of the electric cooling fans to kick on. They are controlled by an electronic thermostat, to keep air moving through the radiator at idle and slow speeds. When the car speeds up, they are not needed.

     

    So check the fan thermostat (not the coolant thermostat) and the fans themselves.

     

    Stanton
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    I agree - My comment wasn't to discourage Jun from using a manual start override push button if he wants to, but be cautious that once he touches anything under the hood, they'll be looking to get out from under any warranty claim. It's sad, and wrong IMHO opinion, but that's how I've seen them work over the years.

     

    To flip that around, from the dealer's perspective, if someone told me they were messing around under the hood, and if I didn't have a history with them as a customer, I'd be inclined to be skeptical as to what damage the customer might have caused.

     

    That's why I suggested not touching anything until this gets resolved.

     

    Larry
  • stantontstantont Member Posts: 148
    Installing the subwoofer was easier than I expected. Total about 2 or 2 1/2 hours, much of it spent snaking the wire under the carpet. Removing the console and such was exactly as in the directions; there WAS a bit on the MT version, but I didn't spot it at first because there was no picture, but unscrewing the shift knob was the only difference.

     

    Wow! What difference in sound! I tried messing with the hi cut and gain controls, and couldn't decide what was better, so I just reset them mid-range as it came out of the box. My audio test was an organ version of Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Major for the low stuff, and some trumpet work by the Canadian Brass for the treble. With the subwoofer, even the organ pedal notes are solidly there (maybe 25Hz?), and the standard door speakers will be fine for mid-range and highs to my old (high-freq loss) ears.

     

    Stanton
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Excellent point Stanton!! Now that I think about it, you may have hit on the problem!

     

    Craig
  • stantontstantont Member Posts: 148
    Just a tip for those who live in the frozen north. If you experience stiff shifting when the manual trans is cold, change the gear lube to synthetic. I just filled my '02 Legacy MT and rear diff with Red Line 75w-90NS as per their recommendations, and shifting is much lighter and faster under all conditions, but especially when cold. Perhaps 1/4 to 1/3 the shift effort when cold (well, cold for Austin: about 38 degrees). Red Line recommends the NS lube for better shifting, though it is not recommended in a limited-slip diff, so would not be good for the rear diff on a turbo. Their regular 75w-90 has additives for the limited-slip that are not optimal for gear synchronizers, which need a bit of friction to work. The NS version does not use those additives.

     

    Very worthwhile $40!! And drain and refill on the MT is easy.

     

    Red Line claims the lube will pay for itself through increased fuel mileage on short trips where the gear lube stays cold. Given the drop in shifting drag, I am inclined to believe it. Regular 75w-90 must be like molasses when it is cold.

     

    Stanton
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,759
    Thanks for the tip, Stanton. I will be changing the fluid in my differentials in the next few weeks, so I will certainly keep synthetic in mind before I purchase! I have not changed the fluid on my OB's diffys myself yet...
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I agree that it makes shifting easier in the winter, but the downside is that most of the synthetic gear oils are too slippery for the tranny synchros that Subaru uses. So keep an eye out for any grinding when you shift into gear.

     

    I put Mobil-1 gear oil in my WRX and loved the lighter shift action, especially in cold weather. But I ocassionally got grinding when going into 2nd gear, so I went back to standard 75w-90 dino gear oil.

     

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I have Mobil 1 in the miata's gear box, to be honest I can't say it's any better now. Maybe I just don't remember.

     

    -juice
  • stantontstantont Member Posts: 148
    Craig,

     

    That is why Red Line specifically recommends the NS oil, which does not have the friction modifiers needed in a limited-slip differential, and which are present in most synthetics (including Mobil One). Any gear lube that says it is compatible with limited-slip differentials is not ideal for gear synchros.

     

    I've had the stuff in there for three days, and there is no gear scratch when shifting, whether hot or cold. I will keep my eyes and ears open, but so far so good.

     

    BTW, is it my imagination, or is the Subie MT also synchro in reverse? It is the first manual I've owned that I have NOT had to touch a forward gear or else wait for the gears to spin down, before going into reverse. No crunch, ever. My SHO needed to be touched into any forward gear before going into reverse, or it would crunch. Ditto our Nissan Stanza, my SAAB 99's, Volvo 122, and Triumph TR-3. (Or at least wait a few seconds for the gear to spin down.)

     

    Stanton
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    The M1 oil I used was straight gear oil, with no friction modifiers (basically same as straight dino gear oil). Some people actually have had better luck with synthetic oil with friction modifiers, or special blends. The flowing characteristics of synthetics are better, and the friction modifiers make the synchros happy. After my experience, I went back to straight dino since it had worked OK from the factory -- other WRX owners are still experimenting with various cocktails! In the end, stick with whatever works for you!

     

    I don't think there is a synchro for reverse. In fact, my WRX was super stubborn about getting into reverse. I couldn't get into 1st above about 5 mph either. I became a double-clutch master with that car.

     

    My 00 Outback, on the other hand, shifted easily into any gear at any speed. The shifter was a lot more sloppy than the WRX, but definitely easier to live with in everyday driving.

     

    Craig
  • blfogertyblfogerty Member Posts: 1
    Looking for info on changing my brake pads. No Chilton or Hayes manual for my Subarus. Would you give me a quick how to, please.

     

    Thanks

     

    -b
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,818
    "As to the switch, I can see a dealer invalidating the entire claim because they hooked up anything to the electrical system. I'd agree that's not fair, and dirty pool, but I've seen dealers use any, and every, excuse to get out of a claim."

     

    Ok. My idea with the remote switch was not a spur-of-the-moment thing; I just bought a beater van with the same problem for m father-in-law, who has trouble finding decent $2 cars any more. Since I made a web page for him (he's 700 miles away and will be flying in), I thought I'd post a link here and illustrate what I meant.

    http://www.msu.edu/~steine13/starter.html

     

    And heck no, this does NOT invalidate the warranty. How could it? First up, the only new connection is to the starter solenoid, and secondly, you just take it off before you go back.

     

    If the starter is easily accessible from above, just hook the remote switch up directly. Back in the day, real men just used a screwdriver to bridge the two connectors on the back of the solenoid...

     

    -Mathias
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Haven't done my brakes yet, sorry.

     

    -juice
  • slickdogslickdog Member Posts: 225
    I've got that same Craftsman starter switch. Used to come in handy when I had to check the timing on my '71 Chevelle and needed to bump the starter and get the timing mark around where I could scrape the rust off and make it more reflective for the timing light.

     

    Two of my old screwdrivers have black marks on them from bridging starter solenoid terminals! It's not an elegant technique, but when you need to get a car off the side of the road and the remote starter switch is at home...

     

    What you are suggesting shouldn't cause a problem with a warranty claim, but I don't think I would go telling anyone at the dealer about it either.
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    -b

     

    I emailed you about brake pads.

     

    Jim
  • reblack_jrreblack_jr Member Posts: 57
    My wife's (passenger side) vanity mirror lights in my 01' OutBack LTD do not come on when the door is opened up. Is there a fuse for the light? By the way my mirror lights are ok and I would think one fuse would be used for both mirrors. I do not think the bulbs are bad since neither side light of her mirror works. Could it be a bad or loose connection to the wires that I assume come through the support arm?

    Does anyone know how to troubleshoot this, do the lenses on the lights come off (how)?

    Thanks in advance.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Check the wiring -- it runs from the visor up into the headliner and goes into the overhead console.

     

    There is a connector where the visor hinge bolts to the roof, and a connector in the overhead console.

     

    Craig
  • garandmangarandman Member Posts: 524
    Looking for info on changing my brake pads. No Chilton or Hayes manual for my Subarus. Would you give me a quick how to, please.

     

    It might be helpful to mention exactly what year and model you have. I have a Haynes manual for mine, but it's a '97.
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    Posted a while ago about the noticable ticking noise my wife's OBW is making. Actually clunking might be a better word. Anyway, just got the oil analysis back from Blackstone on Friday.

     

    Aluminum is now 5 times normal and Blackstone thinks getting the engine checked might be a good idea.

     

    As a point of reference the aluminum numbers were 10 ppm at 13500, 4 ppm at 19729 and currently 21 ppm at 26827. Two other points of reference for the curious: 4 ppm is the universal average for all the engines of this type Blackstone has tested. Blackstone also said on my next to last report that I could extend my oil changes from 3k to 4k. This last change was done at 3750 and that it based on the condition of the oil, 3500-4000 was a good spot for the oil.

     

    I'll keep the group posted as to the dealer's reaction. Any takers on "This is normal."?

     

    Larry
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    The vanity lights only come on when the headlights are switched on, too...I remember thinking mine were broken on my Outback a few years ago, only to discover that they are tied to the headlights. Just a thought...

     

    Brian
  • terumi1terumi1 Member Posts: 130
    I have a 97 Outback. The plastic covers on the headlamps have, over the years, become crazed and faded. Has anyone had any experience getting rid of this fading? I understand it is from the heat of the headlamps over time. I also understand that you can buy a solution at Pep Boys, etc...that will rejuvinate the plastic.

     

    Has anyone had any experience with this solution or have any other recommendations?

     

    Thanks!
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    If they're thoroughly hazed (or worse, yellowed), you are better off replacing them altogether.

     

    kcram

    Host - Wagons
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,759
    Bad news. A crazed headlamp cover. You're better off getting rid of them or the next thing you know they might come after you with a knife! j/k ;-D

     

    Are these standard equipment? I don't recall that I have such covers on my '96. It might be more beneficial to just replace them if the cost is small.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • royallenroyallen Member Posts: 227
    I've had good success improving cloudy headlight covers using old fashioned polishing compound on the outside only, which indicates deterioriation on the weather side not on the bulb side. Roy
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