Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

aka1 · October 2005

You can trick the mirror into thinking its night time with lights shining onto it... You do this by first identifying the two sensors, one for the front side of mirror (facing toward the windshield) and one towards the bottom half of the mirror facing backwards.

Have a flash light with you- next turn on the car so you get electricity to the unit, use your finger to completely cover the front photoelectric sensor while covering the rear sensor as well- this should keep the mirror completely transparent, now while keeping the front sensor covered, shine the flash light into the rear sensor- you should she the mirror gradually turning translucent (darker- less light getting through).

My Tribeca's works very quickly, my Lexus dims all the rear view mirrors (not just the center one).

Hope that works...

Cheers,

AKA1

debaser853 · October 2005

My wife and I bought an '05 Legacy wagon last summer, and now at ~16,000 miles...

She took it to the dealer for an oil change, and mentioned that the clutch makes a bit of a squishy or scrunchy noise during the last inch or so of pedal travel near the floor. So, they take it back for the oil change, and an hour later tell her that we need a new clutch, and it will be covered under warranty. She was so happy that they used the word "free" that she didn't bother to ask what happened and why we need a new clutch, and (more importantly to me) will it happen again?

Any insight into what might be going on?

thanks...

ateixeira · October 2005

Scrunchy doesn't sound too good, so let's be glad they replaced it. There are some manufacturers that would call that wear and tear and hand you a bill for several hundred dollars.

We'd need to know more to say what it was, maybe ask the dealer when you pick it up?

-juice

eazyryder · October 2005

i too have an 01 outback (limited) and i am also having the exact same trouble . . . did you have any luck? the dealership wants me to buy a new one for $189 and have it installed, but i think that's ridiculous . . . write me back when you can and tell me what you found out . . . thanks- JJ

baloobear · October 2005

My '95 legacy wagon with 140,000 miles will not start when it rains or even if it is just very humid. It use to just have trouble starting so I use to pump the gas and keep at it a few times and it would turn over after a few minutes of trying but this morning it wouldn't start at all It has been raining for days so everything is wet. I am sure this is electrical but before I bring it in to my mechanic is there anything more specific that I should tell him to look at besides just electrical?? The mystery to me is that it starts on a dime and runs fine when everything is dry. It does not hesitate stall or anything just starting issues in the rain.

lylitalo · October 2005

My 98 Legacy had a similar problem. Changing my plug wires did the trick. In the olden days, changing plug wires was easy, not so anymore!

lylitalo · October 2005

My 98 Outback (automatic) pounds when starting from stop, particularly when going uphill or turning. The noise comes from the front end. I took this to my Subaru dealer, but they said that they couldn't hear anything. It's getting louder and I'd like to get it fixed. Any ideas what it could be? CV joints maybe???

loretta3 · October 2005

I have the same problem with '99 Legacy and it has been going on for a year. I brought it to the dealership and they could not replicate the situation with a hose. They thought it was related to the drain from the factory installed sunroof. They also resealed the windshield and that did not help.

baloobear · October 2005

Thank you for the insight I thought much the same and I had the plugs and ignition wires replaced last winter so I think it is along those lines but I have not been able to pinpoint anything else more specific.

tp1966 · October 2005

i have the same problem except that the a/c has been in for service 8 times and actually quit on me.

jfl · October 2005

Are you getting spark at the plug?

If the car has a distributor, was the distributor cap changed? Did it happen before the cap was changed? (I had a similar problem with an old Honda. Turned out the cheapo distributor cap had a "knit line" where the coil wire enters the distributor. Moisture would cause a short and the current never reached the spark plug. Solution: a factory dist cap!)

Jim

snowbird2 · October 2005

My '95 legacy wagon has a similar problem as well. It's at 177,000 miles and chooses not to start in any kind of weather. It is usually a couple months between each incident. It usually will not start when it has been sitting in the hot sun for a couple hours- but- sometimes it won't start when it's cloudy out and cold. There really isn't any rhyme or reason to it not starting. The actual process of it not starting is, I'll turn the key in the ignition and the dash board lights will light up , radio comes on, power windows work, but it will not turn over at all, not even a little bit. I had my mechanic check it out and he replaced the starter twice. But just yesterday the car spontaneously would'nt start. I called my mechanic back and he said "I give up"...If anyone has any insight I would greatly appreciate it.

xwesx · October 2005

Snowbird, does this happen when the vehicle has been recently driven, or only when it is stone cold (regardless of ambient temperatures)?

jfl · October 2005

Our beater, a 90 Honda Accord, did this. Our mechanic replaced a relay (possibly deep in the dash) and the problem went away. Of course, we never discussed if Subies have a similar relay...

Jim

hbx · October 2005

I bought a 99 Legacy outback in the summer. I start to having same problems a couples ago. The car won't start in the first 2 starts. I have to sit in for a miniute or 2, start the key for several times. Eventually it will start, so far. This happens in the morning or when coming home when engine is cold. Is this a spark plug problem or igition wiring, or sth else. What are the steps to check each part? Thanks in advance for any help.

HB

cfitzpatrick · October 2005

I hardly ever open the back moonroof and when I opened it the other day I noticed a significant build up of rust...I am guilty of always leaving the front moonroof in the tilted up open position and have often had to dash out in the rain and shut it. It never appeared that water was getting in, but it has obviously snuck under and built up under the other sunroof over the years (I have a 2001).

Does anyone now if Subaru will cover this...I know a lot of manufacturer's cover rust problems even after warranty...will it be an issue upon resale or trade in of the car, ie is it worth fixing?

Thanks all,

Caleb

snowbird2 · October 2005

Thank you for writing back. The Subaru does not start after it has been driven and then has sat parked for no less than an hour and a half.

xwesx · October 2005

I had a similar gremlin with mine and have seen others with these symptoms as well.... all in '96 to '99 Outbacks (though I imagine it could happen with other Legacy trims). My problem, however, happened exclusively when the vehicle was "warm", meaning it had typically sat less than one hour since it was last driven. Sometimes the car was stone cold by then, depending on the ambient temperature. It was an annoying, but tolerable, problem (it usually happened about once every other day, or once every 5-10 starts). If it did not fire up promptly, you could crank it till the battery died without success. But, if you waited 5 minutes and tried again, it would often start. If not, repeat the wait/crank cycles until it does start.

After wasting several hundred dollars trying to diagnose the problem (no code was ever tripped in the ECU, though the CEL would come on after every time this happened), I finally started following hunches. Oh, I should mention that it got to the point that the car would occasionally stall in traffic if the engine had not warmed up yet. After stalling, the same symptoms would appear.

The first thing I replaced was the MAS (mass airflow sensor). That eliminated the stalling problem and reduced the frequency of my gremlin to about once every couple of weeks or so (maybe.... 50 or so starts?), but it was still there. Then I pulled then engine out of the car and replaced a whole slough of seals and gaskets to correct some horrific leaks. After reassembling, the frequency was even less.... about once a month. Then, in August of '04, I started having some severe problems that were causing flooding upon start up, rough idle, etc. I replaced the cam sensor, crank position sensor, and the knock sensor. The severe problems were eliminated, and oddly enough.... I've never had another recurrence of the dreaded gremlin. It is over a year now since the last time it happened (July 04).... and nothing ever stays that stable on this car for that long!

If you want sensor locations, you can see them on the photo I posted for my head gasket rebuild last month. The crank sensor is located at the top-front-center of the block, the cam sensor is at the top-front-right (when looking @ the engine.... driver side), and the knock sensor is at the top-back and just right of the center of the block.

I am not sure if it was random that this has not happened since replacing those sensors, but without a code in the ECU, gremlins can be hard to isolate. I do not personally think it is a mechanical problem.

Keep in mind though, that your problem only seems to happen when the car is COLD rather than warm, so it may not be anything similar at all">link title. Argh. It's enough to cause madness! :mad:

hbx · October 2005

Thanks for sharing your experience. I don't think I am that handy like you can do so many things. I will see how it develops and maybe have a dealer to check it out.

HB

mcdo · October 2005

We have a 2003 outback and it has been making a "clunk" noise everytime we turn a corner. I have taken it to several local repair shops and they can't find the problem. I finally drove the 50 miles to the nearest dealer and was told my transfer clutch needs to be replaced. The car has 61,000 miles on it. Is this normal? Can you fix it yourself?

xwesx · October 2005

Is it every corner.... both left and right?

mcdo · October 2005

Yes. It doesn't happen when the car is cold, only after you have driven about 15 miles or so. When you turn sharp, it clunks much faster.

fibber2 · October 2005

You are on the hairy edge of a very expensive bill (like $2k, I hear), as the transfer clutch is buried at the tail end of the tranny. I am quite sure that this would fall within the 5yr/60k powertrain warranty, and given your mileage (61k), the Subaru dealership should have been your first stop, not your last!

From the sounds of things, your dealership did not throw you a lifeline, so here is the procedure: Call 1-800-SUBARU3. Have all of your info ready, including how long ago and the mileage when you first heard it, and the local shops you visited. It also helps if the car is up to date on servicing, such as when the tranny fluid was last changed, etc. The most important aspect is your attitude! SoA seems to be pretty good about extending help to reasonable people.

Good luck, and let us know how you make out.

Steve

xwesx · October 2005

Yep.... I have to agree with that assessment! It sounds like the transfer clutch is the most likely culprit..... nasty bugger to access. I'm not sure I would even attempt to dig it out.....

Good luck. Many companies are fairly reasonable when major problems crop up near or *just* after the end of the warranty period (other than Nissan), so if you have kept records and maintenance up to date, you should have a good chance of some assistance on this impending bill. Assuming no other problems, it is worth the fix.

joelog · October 2005

I have a 2004 Outback wagon with 32000mi on it. Have had no problems just normal maintenance. During this week we've had torrential rains on Long Island. This morning when I started driving I heard water somewhere in the car sloshing back and forth during a stop and initial acceleration. I haven't driven through any major flooded areas just the normal puddling and minor flooded roadways where water gets thrown out from the car's wheel well. Anyway, I'm wondering where this water is trapped? Is this common or maybe there's some drain hole in the chassis that's plugged up?
Joe

aklb · October 2005

We just finished replacing both head gaskets, water pump, themostat, and belts after overheating. We found the air filter was wet and water in the exhaust pipe. After our repairs, the test drive went well. Went about 10 miles, pushed it a bit, no problems. Ran well, no overheating, ect. As we pulled in the garage, the CEL came on. Now when it idles (b/t 500-700RPMs) it's very rough and the tail pipe is sucking air. If we hit the gas, engine sounds great and is not rough. CEL light remains on. Since it ran fine for a short time, what does this sound like? Where should we start to diagnose our problem?

aklb · October 2005

I have a 98 Outback 2.5L.

mcdo · October 2005

I have to admit, I am a bit confused. I called another Subaru dealership to ask questions and was told my 2003 Outback doesn't have a transfer clutch because it is a manual transmission. He said it has a differential with CV joints. They suggested I take it into another dealership for another opinion. They also said the quote I was given was a bit low ($988.00) if I did have a transfer clutch to fix. They said even though it was a Subaru dealer, not to go there. My problem is: Do I drive another 100 miles or so to find another Subaru dealer or do I call Subaru directly and ask what to do? They told me everything else was fine, but I might consider front brakes and rotors in the near future.

xwesx · October 2005

Hmm.... I may be a bit confused as well (mine does not have manual tranny), but unless the power distribution front-to-back is locked at a given ratio, even the manual transmissions should have a transfer clutch in the center differential. I suppose the problem could also be a bad differential, either front or back.

fibber2 · October 2005

Joe,

I am trying to do this from memory, as I remember someone else having the same situation maybe 2 years ago, or so. IIRC, the water was trapped in the side sill rails - those boxed-in frame-like supports that run under the doors. They are open in the front of the structure, into the front fender / wheel well area near the strut towers, and under the dash area. There should be drain holes at the bottom, although I suspect that they might not be so obvious on Outback models as the plastic lower body cladding wraps around the sills. You need to go look for the drains, as it sounds like they may be clogged.

Please let us know what you find!

Steve

fibber2 · October 2005

Step one is to read out and interpret that CEL. If it is a misfire (from any of a number of possibilities), the code will even tell you which cylinder is at fault. A great way to start your diagnosis.

Tell me more about the "tail pipe is sucking air". If it is really pulling air back in, you might have a stuck valve that is not seating at low engine speed.

Steve

fibber2 · October 2005

Hate when that happens - wrote you a long reply, and something burped and the text disappeared!

To begin with, you need to recite the basics when asking for help. I ran with the transfer clutch and assumed an automatic, as that is what you reported your dealer said.

OK.... Yes, the auto and manual are different. The auto uses a fairly sophisticated electronically controlled transfer clutch that varies torque applied to the rear based on gear, load, road speed, detected slippage, etc. The manual uses a simple viscous clutch fixed at 50/50, IIRC. In either case, this is considered the center differential.

Between the rear wheels is the rear differential, with CV joints extending outward to the rear wheels. Attached to the front of the transmission is the front differential, with CV joints extending outward to the front wheels. Perhaps the second dealership is suggesting that the noise/binding is from either the front or rear differential, and not the center (transfer clutch / viscous clutch) assembly???

Why didn't the second dealership want to examine the car? Call Subaru, explain the entire situation, and ask them to assign a dealer.

Steve

kat15 · October 2005

I think it may just be a CV axle...ours did this a while ago when turning right and we replaced the front passenger side one and now it's doing it when we turn left and we think it's the driver's side one. You can check by looking under the hood and reaching down and looking at the boot. Good luck..it's a lot cheaper..only like $70 or so

joelog · October 2005

Thanks for your reply Steve. I did find under those sills what appear to be plastic buttons or maybe retainer clips which when I pried on the one at the rear of the sill water did start streaming out. I don't know if these are supposed to be taken off or if they hold the cladding on. When I checked it was still pretty wet on the ground so I didn't really look too close. Anyway since it is now dry I'll check tomorrow in the daylight and see if I find a drain hole. By the way I had a plugged drain hole last year for the AC system. I found this out one day when I made a turn and cold water pored all over my foot, not to mention soaked my floor carpets. The dealer unclogged that one.
Joe

grahampeters · October 2005

G'day

Typically, this signifies blocked drain holes. However, the blockage might be less clear. It may be anti-rust ax whcih has clogged the drains or accumulated dust/mud . The fix in either case is a climb under the car with a fine proe to poke around. One of the best is a bit of the plastic packaging tape often used as binding around pallets, newspapers and the like as it will not harm paintwork.. You can split it to about 1/4" wide or less. when you find a drain hole, push it up and poke it around a bit, making sure your eye is not directly underneath.

One prime point for blockage is the cavity immedietly in front of the doors. I fabricated a small tool from a length of 4mm dribpper hose, siliconed into a hose fitting. This could be threaded through most hoses and drains to blast out any muck. When connected to a hose it is extraordinarily effective in clearing junk out.

Cheers

Graham

dsain · October 2005

I couldn't find anything aftermarket, so I went to the nearest Subaru Dealer, Gerald Subaru in North Aurora, IL. They are a quick stop on the way home, but not the best sales staff. Stabilizer bar is $143, Trans Filter is 42.64, and a heated seat switch was 36.50.

The big thing is the stabilizer bar. Gerald Subaru quoted me $68 for the links. A couple of days ago I called Subaru of Schaumburg, and was quoted $63 for a stabilizer bar. I'd assumed that I might not have been clear enough to the counterman and he qouted the wrong part.

Yesterday morning I hit the internet, and found http://www.mileaautogroup.com . Here the stabilizer bar is $44.76. The online catalog pulls up the same photo the dealer uses and id's the part by number in the picture. Similar to what a counterperson uses. ATF Filter $25.90, Heated Seat Switch, 27.03.

So they have a little markup. Personally I think they are GOUGING me for the stabilizer and the filter. Matched the filter up at local parts shop for under $9. Today I take the filter back, cancel the rest of the order, and buy online. I didn't think I'd come across a Subaru dealer that would gouge it's customers like that.

David

ateixeira · October 2005

Rust - they won't cover unless it rusts all the way through. Just clean it up with some naval jelly, be very careful though and be sure to clean up afterwards.

Water sloshing - common on Miatas as well, I had to poke the holes to unclog them. Wear eye protection! :shades:

-juice

flwood · October 2005

I am having the same problem. It's very disturbing to me as I live in Ariz.and get warm then cold and so on. I am hoping my dealer can fix this on Wed. I am now alarmed at your experience being the same for me. Since I'm mor than a bit OC, I sure hope there is a fix.

newsubie1 · October 2005

Just purchased a used 2000 Outback wagon Limited. 88k miles, automatic. I live at 5000 ft here in Colorado. Took my first trip with it up to the higher elevation the other day to about 8000ft and at about 7 miles before my destination my temp gauge was pinned to the max! (this was a winding up hill drive)
I pulled over and popped the hood (engine still running) and did not see anything unusual. Both heater fans running, Overflow bottle was 3/4 full and bubbling a little. (No engine light by the way)
I contiued on to my destination and the temp gauge was still pinned but did go back to the red area. I parked under shade and came back and drove it back home after 4 hours. The gauge was back to half temp. is this normal for my EJ251 engine? Always half up on the temp gauge?
Very concerned I took it to a Subaru dealer the next day. (Temp gauge seemed normal at half way up)
I told them to change t-stat, put in the Subaru coolant reccommended for the recall, and pressure test the system. They called and said everything went well. (No pressure problems) There was a strong odor coming from the old coolant when I smelled the opening of the recovery bottle, almost like gas BEFORE this service. I am concerened from what I have read on these boards that I may have more to discover with engine temp problems.
I have read the recall issure regarding the head gasket problems. I get 28 miles per/gal, engine runs smooth, no tail pipe smoke of any kind.
I have not gone back up to 8000ft to see if it will do it again.
Are there anymore test I should do?

ateixeira · October 2005

I'm concerned about head gaskets. But it passed the pressure test.

I guess it could have been an inaccurate reading, but if the needle gets pinned like that again, I'd park it and call 800-SUBARU3 to see if they can tow it to a dealer for inspection.

-juice

xwesx · October 2005

That concerns me as well. Did the coolant look noticably discolored or was there any dark residue on the walls of the overflow bottle? I am also concerned about your mention of "bubbling" in the overflow bottle. It sounds to me like you might be getting a little bit of compression bypass from the cylinder heads into the coolant. I was having this problem on mine before I finally replaced the HG at 192.5K. I experienced no coolant loss (other than an unrelated external leak) and no overheating issues, but I did not take it on any steep, sustained grades that were more than a 1/2 mile or so long.

litespeed4 · October 2005

my 2000 outback wagon has been running like crap, and the check engine light came on. I had the auto parts store scope it and they recomended that I replace the oxygen sensor based on the error code they got. They recommended replacing the oxygen sensor before the catalytic converter. I bought one (bosch), but it has no instructions with it.

My question is, where is it located? Is there anything special required to hook it up? It looks like it just threads in on one end, and plugs into the computer wire on the other - is that all there is to it?

Any help is appreciated - Thanks!!!

xwesx · October 2005

That should be all there is to it. You should reset the ECU after replacement. The sensor is located at the top of the exhaust assembly *just* before the the cat.... it threads into the front of the cat housing, if I recall correctly. Pop the hood and look down at the exhaust system just behind the engine on the passenger side. You should be able to see it if you peer between all the myriad wires, hoses, etc.....

litespeed4 · October 2005

great thanks, sounds pretty straightforward. How do I reset the ECU though? I don't have the scope, but is that something they can do at the autoparts store? Is it as simple as resetting the CEL ?

jwillmlady · October 2005

When I leave for work it shifts fine. After about 3 miles on my route and several turn arounds, it won't shift. It will rev up to 5000 RPM's then shift hard. It will do this for awhile then it shifts fine. Some days its shifts all the time. My mech. thinks it is a sensor, but doesn't know which one. I can shift from 1st to 2nd and 3rd to drive manually. Once it is in drive it will act up. Always when it is warmed up.
Help!! I really do not want to replace the Trans. It has 110 K. I have always had it serviced and the fluid is full and clean.

xwesx · October 2005

Yes, it sounds pretty straight forward, but then you have to actually do it and it does not quite seem so easy!

I am not sure if the parts store will reset the CEL for liability reasons, but you should be able to disconnect the positive lead on the battery when you start the project. By the time you are finished (~30 minutes?), the ECU will have cleared, you can hook the battery up, and off you go. Well, other than the security alarm reset if it has one... there are a lot of old posts on how to do that that should be findable with the search option.

reblack_jr · October 2005

I just got back from visiting my 91 yr old mother in law. She has a 99 OB that has not had a oil change since 02' ~5200 miles. It is now 3 yrs later and she has added another 750 miles to the odometer (New Total ~ 6000 miles). She wonders what maintenance is needed. She is the lady that only drives 5 miles a week inside her retirement village to the Library and Church. Is this car's engine TRASH or what should she do. It has not caused her to breakdown yet. Thanks in advance!
BTW it was her husband's car!

newsubie1 · October 2005

Thanks for your reply. The coolant looked cloudy but no discoloration.
I did remember that I opened the bottle and it was not overly full for an engine that was overheating. From the manual the "full" mark is about 6" below the cap when the engine is cooled down. Now that I just had the Subaru service coolant put in and pressure tested with new thermostat the coolant level is near the top after normal driving. I have sent a message to Subaru tech support listing my events and hope they can get a history of re-call service from the VIN.
I really like the way this car drives, smooth and heavy and quiet. I drive 130 miles per day round trip. (Not up hill as much as the other day)
How much was the HD job $$?
Does your temp gauge read exactly half up?
I will be going up to 7800 ft this weekend and will put it through the test.

xwesx · October 2005

The temp guage should read at 50% under normal operating temperatures.

I replaced my head gaskets, so no labor costs involved. All told, I spent $1100 on it in the last 45 days, but much of that was work unrelated to the head gaskets. If I had JUST replaced those, it would have been about $120 in parts and $100 in tools, plus about 16 hours worth of work start to finish. For a shop to perform the same work, probably about $1800, but it varies by shop I would imagine.

Good luck with it. I hope it is not a HG issue, but have yet to be fully convinced either way. Go easy on it during the climb and don't push it if the temp rises - you could do serious engine damage. Take what you need to get through a stranding if it happens. In my opinion, it is worth the fix (if it comes to that) should you plan to keep the car for a few years otherwise.

-Wes-

fibber2 · October 2005

Robert,

While it is certainly not an ideal situation, I would not be too terribly worried about it unless the engine is showing obvious signs of distress.

The short distances means that the condensation and blowby gases never get heated to the point that they will evaporate and get purged from the system thru the crankcase ventilation. But because of the low total usage, I doubt that their presence has had a substantial wear effect on surfaces either. Oil can degrade if acids (blowby and water) react and damage the detergent and additive package, but again, this is a long term effect.

I am willing to bet that many speciality car owners face similar issues with low total usage. Synthetics might be an advantage here. Your thoughts, Colin??? Get her to change fluids more often, and let her keep driving!

Steve

Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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