Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

fibber2 · May 2006

Jon,

It has been a few years since I did my '02, but IIRC, in addition to the large floor panel, there was a smaller 'wing' that slid partially under the passengers side 'wall'. Down in that valley, coming off the wheelwell region was a wiring harness. I remember that my connector and a length of wire was wrapped back on itself and taped (?), making it a bit hard to see or feel.

Steve

geneob · May 2006

I dont think I have seen a hydraulic clutch that is adjustable. If it is, I would love to know how on my 2001. Should the clutch fork have some spring load on it to keep it against the clutch actuator?

larrycrowell · May 2006

Below it what I had posted earlier. I would suspect that your connector should be in the same location as mine; that is, on the left side. It was indeed hard to find. As I remember the JCWhitney converter was for all Subarus.

Hello. I also have a 2005 OBXT. I purchased & installed a HiddenHitch receiver (because it is the least conspicuous) and a JCWhitney trailer light converter speced for Subaru. The converter is necessary to convert Euro separate brake&turn to US combined brake&turn. The Subaru wiring connector is buried inside the rear left plastic panel (even the dealer didn't know where it was); you might have to root around to find it. The Subaru connector also supplies 12VDC for converters such as the JCWhitney; you want this so that your trailer lights do not load the car lighting circuit. This 12VDC supply has a separate fuse, but I cannot remember if the fuse was installed or if I had to install one. ALl went together nicely; the JCWhitney converter was "plug-n-play".

sissymarj · May 2006

The moonroof on my 2002 LL Bean Outback leaks. I've managed to clear the rear drain tubes, but I can't seem to locate the front ones ... and that seems to be what is clogged. Probably with mud.

Does anyone know where the front drain tubes exit the chassis? I'm hoping for a simple fix by back-blowing them with compressed air, if I can find them!

Thanks for your help.

subarujon · May 2006

I found it where you said. It was hidden behind a piece of styrofoam insulation that I had to remove by sticking my arm inside the speaker hole.

Thanks,

Jon

ateixeira · May 2006

Score!

Awesome, gotta love these forums.

-juice

ncdad · May 2006

This potentially could be a situation where someone could make a little money. IF anyone knows of a bullet proof Subaru motor that would be readily available in the wrecking yard, I am sure someone would pay for instructions on swapping that motor for the 2.5's and others with the same problems.

RK

fibber2 · May 2006

Jon,

Odd that yours was buried quite so deep, but glad to hear that you found it!

Steve

rangner · May 2006

Depending on your model, the 2.2 H4 and the 3.0 H6 are reliable motors with no headgasket trouble, possibly even the 2.0T from the wrx. 2.2 might be the most available. not sure about installation though Eric

1mr2 · May 2006

Could you please email or post a few pics of the hidden hitch you have installed. I have read in several locations that the hidden hitch was the least obtuse and am about to buy either a draw-tite, hidden hitch, or curt and would love to see a photo. BTW, I own the 05 OB 2.5i

Thanks,
PD

utherjorge · May 2006

I have two questions about my Legacy that I just bought used; it's a 2003:

1. My owner's manual says I should have a 16.9 gal tank. The gauge goes to E, I fill it up...and I get only about 10 gallons in. Is the manual wrong?

2. My mileage, regardless of the size of the tank, is awful. In city, I'm getting about 11mpg.

How wrong are these two numbers? Can anyone help?

Thanks in advance!

Dave Becker

kens · May 2006

Dave,

10 gallons sounds a bit low even considering that there is some reserve after your fuel indicator hits "E". The low fuel light comes on with 2.5 gallons left. So assuming you run it down to the light, you should still be able to fill about 14 gallons. That's been my experience with my 2005 Legacy GT wagon which also has a 16.9 gallon tank.

How do you decide when the tank is full? Do you let the pump click off on it's own? I've seen faulty pumps that triggered off prematurely. Do you always pump gas at the same station and pump?

As for the gas milage, 11mpg sounds a bit on the low side, even for city driving. Is your Legacy AT or MT? How short are your city driving miles? Also, how do you calculate your mpg? Do you warm up your car before driving?

Ken

utherjorge · May 2006

I go to the same station and stop when the pump shuts off. I don't top off. I have let it run to about 1/8th, and put in 10 gallons to fill it. I thought that was very small.

Auto tranny, only a few miles, so it doesn't have a chance to wamr up much, but regardless...180 miles on 3/4 a tank seems very low.

Dave Becker

hustoncs · May 2006

That doesnt sound right is your Outback a 4 cyl or 6? If its a 6 cylinder it will need premium gas I have a 2002 Outback with a 6 and it gets reasonable mileage its driven around town for short distances no huge commutes. Since its used some things to have checked if you havent already done so is the air filter and if the car has over 60K miles on it have the timing belt checked and also the plugs. Another thing that could be a problem and Ive seen it on other cars is the catalytic converter going bad which will degrade performance. Anyway I hope this helps.

Cheers

:shades:

ateixeira · May 2006

The fuel gauge is very conservative. My Forester will be on E and still have 4 gallons left. I use my trip odometer to keep track of how many miles I've driven instead, and fill up once I'm past 300 miles or so. 350 if it's all highway.

-juice

fibber2 · May 2006

Maybe someone needs to recheck my math, but at last count 180 miles on 10 gallons was about 18 mpg.

The gas gauge is rather non-linear. If I run mine down to close to the E, until about 10 miles after the light goes on, I can put about 14 gals in. That is about 320 miles of mixed driving, for about 23 mpg. 2002 Outback, H4 auto.

Steve

rudikamp · May 2006

Juice , does the sedan have a timing belt or chain ?
Do you know when the 2007 models arrive at the dealers ,
and what changes will there be on the new models ?

Thanks, Rudi

ateixeira · May 2006

Chain on the H6, no maintenance there.

07 models should be here soon, we'll get an Sat. Radio option and an aux input, and probably memory seats. Little stuff.

-juice

stevenm1 · May 2006

The following problems can lead to poor gas mileage, and should be checked first because they are not hard to check:

1) Sometimes the front brake calipers stick and can cause the front brakes to drag. Rapid pad wear will occur and can cause poorer gas mileage. You can remove the tire and make sure that the brake disk turns freely.
2) Proper tire inflation is important. Under-inflated tires can dramatically affect mileage.
3) A cooling system thermostat that is stuck open will lead to more inefficient engine operation, and can affect gas mileage.
4) Tire design is a factor. When we change to snow tires during the winter for our 3 Subarus, the gas mileage goes down from 3-4 mpg for each of them.
5) A lead-footed driving style can cause poorer gas mileage as well, particularly in city driving. City driving that is characterized by a lot of traffic jams with engines idling and no movement will cause poorer gas mileage. An idling engine uses more gas than most people realize.

chrisl22 · May 2006

I just bought a new outback and am considering getting a "protection package" for the paint and interior (carpet and leather fabric) since I'm in the mountains alot with dust and tree sap, etc. I got a price of $495 for all interior and paint from a local autodealer: 7 year warranty with a product called Perma Plate. This is two years longer and $100 cheaper than what my local Subaru dealers are offering.

Does anybody have any experience with this product and would you recommend it or not?

Thanks,

Chris

larrycrowell · May 2006

I have taken the hitch pictures (JPG) for you. Now, if you could suggest a way to transfer them to you or make them visible to you.

rudikamp · May 2006

Juice ,I am offered a 2006 sedan w/o nav. for $ 29,250, or
should I wait for the 2007 model. As you mentioned before,
there will be no important changes, and the price will be
higher.
Thanks, Rudi

ateixeira · May 2006

Protection - that sounds like a lot for what is probably a synthetic wax job and a can of Scotchgaurd. I'd shy away. Get an extended warranty instead, you're much more likely to have some sort of mechanical problem vs. a paint problem that would be covered.

Or pre-pay your maintenance if you prefer. You can get more value (substance) for your money IMO.

Pics: try Photo Bucket or ImageStation. Heck, try Edmunds' own CarSpace, put your photos up there, and then link to them. If you're having trouble, get the photos up there and I can help you link to the pics.

$29,250 for a Bean sedan? Your profile says NJ, so you're not far from fitzmall.com or Van Bortel, and could maybe do a tad better. Fitz has them from just over $27k to just under $29k. The sedans cost a bit less, so you'd be on the low end of that.

Consider taking the train down to Union Station in DC, then the Subway to White Flint. I believe Fitz will even pick you up there. You'd save almost $2 grand, easily worth the trip.

I live very close by, so if you feel nervous about it I'll meet you there. My family has bought 4 cars from that specific dealer and I trust them.

-juice

dlj · May 2006

My 2003 OB waggon -- purchased two months ago at Subaru dealership -- with 40,000 miles started having pulsating braking issues. The noise was not noticeable on short drives, usually on longer drives and in traffic with more braking. Took it to a brake specialist -- he said the thumping was coming from the drive train. Took it to the Subaru dealer, he said it was rotors and they replaced the two back ones. That was 2 days ago, I can begin to hear the thumping noise again ... again on longer drives with stop and go traffic. The thumping never seemed to come from the back but from the front. I just read about "bedding the brakes". Should I do that to stop the existing thumping or does this mean that the front brakes will need new rotors as well?

bat1161 · May 2006

Rudi,

If you don't mind me asking, which dealership? I've dealt with Flemington Subaru and they have matched the best offer out there. They are very close to Fitz as well.

Mark

utherjorge · May 2006

Thanks to all for the replies. When I had said 180 miles, and the mileage, I was abbreviating, but rest assured, this tank was 12mpg: unless the odometer is off, I took the number of miles since I last filled all the way up, divided by the number of gallons, and voila. As I said before, I do this each time I fill up, even with my Accord...I'm a little anal that way.

The car is a four, which is another reason I'm mystified and concerned. As to stevenm's points:

1. I haven't heard a ting from the brakes. I'm not the car's primary driver, but the times I do drive it (at least three times a week, no stereo on, and windows down when it's nice) I haven't heard anything.
2 and 4. Tires are inflated properly. I also know about snows-I have them for my Accord, and I know how that will drop it. These are "Summer" tires.
3. I don't know anything about the thermostat being open, but at no point have any gauges lit up and it does not run excessively hot or cold, even when cruising on the highway.
4. My fiance drives like a slug, which is actually her nickname. Leadfooting isn't an issue that I've seen, and I don't get on it much at all. I live in a "city", but I use quotes because a city of 15,000 people in Northwest PA isn't NYC by any means, so there's no traffic, etc. The lieage is far worse, though, when not driving on a lengthy trip.

Thanks again to all for replies past and future.

Dave Becker

stevenm1 · May 2006

Sounds like you eliminated some of easy-to-check possibilities. The mileage you are getting is half of what it should be, so something is definitely not right. Other things to check are:

1) It might be worth having the CPU scanned with an OBD-II scanner to see if it will yield any clues. I'm assuming that your "check engine" light isn't coming on.
2) The clue that your thermostat may be sticking in the open position is if it takes an unusually long time for your engine to warm up.
3) A dirty or plugged-up air cleaner will hurt your mileage.
4) It might be worth pulling your spark plugs to see if your engine is operating properly. Any that are black with carbon or oil indicates your engine may not be operating properly or has internal mechanical problems.
5) Check the color of your exhaust tail pipe. It should be a light or dark grey color. If it is black with carbon, it indicates your engine is not operating properly.
6) A check of all your fuel lines and gas tank for leaks would be a good idea; I'm not sure about your model, but most Subarus I'm familiar with have the fuel pump in the gas tank so all the fuel lines are under pressure. I'm assuming that you are not smelling gas when it is parked.

rudikamp · May 2006

Juice , I just bought a 2006 L.L Bean Sedan today.
No hassle from the saleman , free oil change.
Paid $ 28,500 .
Thanks for info.
Best regards, Rudi

lrutherford · May 2006

My 99 OB, 131K miles, has a rough idle when it is warming up. When the car is started cold it idles pretty well then after a short run of about 1/2 mile, it feels like it is running on three cylinders at idle until it warms up. When hot it runs great, plenty of power and reasonably smooth idle. Also when air cond is turned on and engine is under load, the roughness diminishes to almost nothing. Check engine light comes on intermittently. Codes show #3 cylinder has a problem. Plugs, wires, and most sensors have been changed, cpu replaced, and every test known to man has been performed by my mechanic with negative results. He is at a loss. Is there anything that he might have missed? Subaru dealer said they would replace #3 fuel injector, (done with no improvement), then if no improvement noticed, they would give it a valve job. The compression check shows excellent compression. Sounds like they don't now the cause either. Any thoughts would be welcome at this point.

hrlyrydr · May 2006

I have a 2005 Legacy GT Wagon. Recently the ABS light started to stay on and the ABS doesn't work. About the same time I got the ER 55 or SS code on the trip odometer and the cruise control quit working. These problems occurred about 1 month after I put on new tires (same size, but Continentals). The wagon has about 37,000 miles on it. As I am about 200 miles from the nearest dealer any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated.

ronsteve · May 2006

OK, so when you said 180 miles, you were abbreviating... but definitely getting 12 mpg? I thought your earlier post said you only got 10 gallons in... so what leap of faith led you to drive long enough to get 15 gallons in on this tank?

Remember, when you calculate your gas mileage, it's got to be from fillup to fillup... and divide your miles by the number of gallons you put in, not the size of the tank.

tkanic · May 2006

05 OBi

I got this error when driving on ice uphill when all 4 wheels were turning but all were slipping. After talking to the dealer I found out the Er-55 (orSS), means a problem with the speed sensor at the wheels. Basically the computer has decided that the wheels are spinning at different rates in a way that shouldn't be, so the computer thinks a speed sensor is bad and deactivates the ABS system and the cruse control, both of these systems depend on the speed sensors and if I recall correctly throw on the check engine light. If the computer sees all is OK with the speed sensor for 24 hours it will go back to 'normal mode' and everything will work again.

With the tires double check that all 4 were replaced with all 4 brign the same size. Tire sizes use a system of something like 225/70/15 - it doesn't matter what the numbers are, just that all 4 are the same number and they are all equally worn.

Sidenote, I find this car a bit annoying to drive highway w/o cruse control, so much so that I bought a OBD-2 scanner and carry it in the car so I can clear this trouble and regain my cruse control if this were to re-occur (most of my driving is long distances on the highway).

ateixeira · May 2006

Sweet, congratulations.

-juice

fibber2 · May 2006

Sorry if I sounded sarcastic, but your numbers just didn't look that bad.
Two weeks ago I changed to 5w-30 Mobil 1 oil, and that, combined with the seasonal changeover to 'summer' fuel in this area netted me an almost 24mpg tank (349 miles on 14.6 gal - fuel light on for about 20 miles).

My mileage dropped of a bit when I was having oxygen sensor problems last year. This is something that can be monitored using a diagnostic scope (shop), or one of the PC based OBD diagnostic tools.

Steve

fibber2 · May 2006

I had a lot of problems with thickness variation on my Subi's original rotors. If the car sat for a few days, or under certain driving conditions, it would develop a thumpy pulsation most noticable when braking, but even in just straight line driving. New front rotors have done wonders for the car.

Steve

stevenm1 · May 2006

Sounds like one possibility that you didn't mention is that you have a sticking valve in your #3 cylinder. A rough running engine when cold is a tipoff that the valve may be sticking until everything gets warmed up. What sometimes works is to use Marvel Mystery Oil in your oil and fuel; might be worth a try before you go through the expense of a valve job.

dduvall · June 2006

where is the upstream o2 sensor on a 2000 outback? need to replace but can't find it. already replaced downstream

goosegog · June 2006

Just forward of the catalytic converter. You need to be under the car. It can be difficult to remove. Mine had to be sawed off in order to get a socket on it.

geneob · June 2006

I recently bought a 2001 Outback wagon with about 90000 miles. It has a 5 speed manual with the 2.5L engine. Somehow I missed it on the test drive but the engine seems to bog down on quick acceleration or starting off from a stop. The only effective way out of it is to back of the gas and accelerate slowly or massage the clutch until you get going. Even without a load, while in neutral, if you jump on the gas quick it will just bog down and then eventually rev up. This is usually followed by the CEL flashing several times and then remaining on for 5 or 6 engine starts. I have checked the plugs and changed the air and fuel filter, but no change.
I am assuming that this is not an unusual problem so I would appreciate any suggestions.

njjuliano · June 2006

I have an 02 and the pulsing brakes were an issuee in early ownership. A common one, from the MYs. The brakes were done, both rotors and pads, and did not have issues till recently. Started to feel the beginnings of the pulsation. Before sending it in, did the go upto 70 mph, solid brake till about 15mph, and do it again. It alleviated the issue.

YMMV

ateixeira · June 2006

Spark or fuel, they say.

I'd change the spark plug wires next. If those are original they are long gone (the ones on my Miata only last 30k miles before the engine starts to sputter).

If that fails, what where the codes? If it was a cylinder misfire, again pointing to the spark, I'd change the ignition coil, about $80 from on-line Subaru wholesalers.

-juice

stevenm1 · June 2006

Before you continue to spend money on parts replacements, you should have the engine scanned with an OB-II scanner; it will show the code(s) that are causing the check engine light to go on. If the problem isn't the ignition coil or plug wires, the symptoms sound like you may have a problem with the knock sensor.

tankmaster · June 2006

Hi All,

Anyone know what the mileage Subaru recommends replacement of the timing belt for a 98 outback/2.5 liter? Just got a used one without the service records. Called two dealers-one told methat the TB is scheduled for 60K replacement, while the other told me that because it's kevlar, it's replacement is scheduled 105 K miles.

Thanks for any help.

cptplt · June 2006

I have a 98 Legacy 2.5 DOHC, is yours the DOHC or the SOHC? The DOHC is 90K. I think the 105K thing comes from CA emissions standards, its got zip to do with what the belt is made of.

tankmaster · June 2006

cptplt,

Thanks for your response but, after reading it, I have concluded that you don't seem to have much knowledge of these engines.

After I posted, I did my homework. 2.2 Liter engine requires a new belt at 60K. The 2.5 liter requires at 105K. Why the difference? One of the dealers that I talked with was correct. It's all in the material the belts are made of and the belt that the 2.5L engine uses is made of Kevelar so that's why it doesn't require change out untill 105K.

The link below also confirms this.

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/subaru_maintenance.html#90-99maintenance

Lastly, DOHC or SOHC???? No such thing as a SOHC in a 2.5 liter in 98 or any other 2.5L suby engine that I know of.

rsholland · June 2006

All 2.5 turbos are DOHC engines.

Bob

cptplt · June 2006

http://www.subaru.com/owners/schedules/index.jsp?navid=SCHEDULE_1998

so why do CA cars need timing belts changed at 105K and others sooner?????? I'm sure they don't make them of different materials in different markets! even in 96 when there were only 2.2s, CA cars needed belts changed at 105K and all other 49 states at 60K. there may well have been a change of material in the belt at some point but it had nothing to do with why they extended the interval. its pretty much an arbitrary thing but in CAs case, its mandated to be above a certain mileage to meet their weird emissions rules - what timing belt changes have to do with emissions, I have no clue! But just like they have "3K" oil change intervals in the US and several times that for the same engine in the rest of the world, its all rather arbitrary and dependent on what the local market expect with a little pinch of local regulations added!
this topic about the difference in intervals for belt change has actually been discussed in the past on this forum.

even Cars101 (a great site but hardly the holy bible) show 2.5 SOHC engines exist in outbacks from 98 MY. the 2.5 was initially all DOHC, then sometime about 2000MY they all went to SOHC and has been that way since for naturally aspirated engines and all 2.5s today are SOHC except the 2.5 turbo . this has also been discussed in numerous threads previously.

subaruguru · June 2006

SOUNDS TO ME YOU COULD HAVE ONE OF TWO PROBLEMS
1. A/F SENSOR (IT'S A 02 SENSOR IN A WAY ) THIS IS FOUND
IN THE EXHAUST JUST IN FRONT OF CONVERTER IT WILL RETAIL
FOR ABUT 130.00
THIS SENSOR PLAY A HUGE ROLE IN AIR / FUEL RATIO (IE A/F SENSOR ) IN 2000 SUBARU DROPPED THE AIR FLOW
METER AND WENT WITH A/F SENSOR "IT'S BETTER" NOT A CHANCE THESE BOSCH SENSORS ARE JUNK !!! WHAT'S YOUR FUEL MI LIKE YOU SHOULD GET A LEST 20 MPG IF NOT THE A/F SENSOR IS DONE
YOU SHOULD FIND OUT WHAT CODE IS IN COMPUTER I WOULD PUT MONEY ON A A/F RELATED CODE LIKE A P0127
ALSO A KNOCK SENSOR COULD CAUSE THIS BUT YOUR CAR SOUNDS A BIT EXTREAM FOR THIS
HAVE SOME ONE SCAN YOUR COMPUTER .
I WOULD REC TAKING IT TO SUBARU IT WILL BE COST LESS IN THE LONG RUN .

subaruguru · June 2006

MIGHT HAVE YOUR TICKET HAVE THE GUY WORKING ON YOU CAR PULL DOWN THE EXHAUST AT THE HEADS IT'S ONLY SIX NUTS AND LOOK AT EXHAUST VALVES ON THE #3 CYL LOOK VERY CLOSE A SEE
IF THERE IS A BLACK GOOP TAR LIKE STUFF ON VALVE STEM
THIS COULD BE CAUSING A VALE TO BE STICKING/DELAYED CLOSING UNDER RPM ONLY
ALSO SOME THINGS TO CHECK DID YOU NOTICE YOUR PROBLEM AFTER ANY ENGINE WORK WAS DONE CAM SEALS CRANK SEAL TIMING BELT i HAVE SEAN A EXHAUST CAM OFF ONE TOOTH CAUSE THIS PROBLEM I KNOW YOU SAID YOU PUT A 100 PARTS ON THE CAR BUT DID ANY ONE CHECK THE COIL DUMP SOME WATER ON IT WHEN IT IS RUNNING THE COIL AND IF IT LOOKS LIKE A THUNDER STORM
YOU HIT PAY DIRT GOOD LUCK !

tankmaster · June 2006

Regarding post #6143,Bob, That's what I have been saying.

But, lets be fair to cptplt. If you have information that can be substantiated that a SOHC 2.5 liter exists, Im always willing to learn something new.

cptplt,

Your comments on CA emissions/timing belts/oil changes have made my head spin. I just couldn't understand what it all meant with regard to 60 replacment of the 2.2 liter vs. 105 K for the 2.5 liter. You may be right and the 3 Subaru service departments that I talked to (spoke with the third yesterday) are all wrong about the 2.5 liter belts being made of a different material than the belt being used in the 2.2 liter engine. But, the 2.5 liter engine belt is replaced every 105K.

Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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