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Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • njjulianonjjuliano Member Posts: 83
    Thanks Mike.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bill: if the spark plug wires are original, change those first. Then maybe the spark plugs themselves, and finally the ignition coil.

    All those things affect the spark.

    The other issue is fuel - so fuel filter, too. Beyond that it gets more complicated and I'd defer to a good mechanic.

    -juice
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    You might be better off at this point taking it to a dealer or somewhere that can verify that the previous mechanic didn't screw something up. Subaru will be unlikely to warranty something done by a non-Subaru mechanic, and you might need the information to hold them accountable.
  • cope0021cope0021 Member Posts: 2
    Changed the plugs and wires last spring. Changed the fuel filter last summer. Changed the cat last summer.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Next thing to try is the ignition coil. Good news is it's only about $80, try 1stSubaruParts.com. They even take Subaru Bucks if you have a Chase Subaru credit card.

    -juice
  • hermonlandhermonland Member Posts: 9
    All, thanks for the input. talked to my mechanic. apparently there was an old alarm installed, i never had an alarm key or key-less entry, so i had no idea. he had to find it and remove it, as i don't use it anyway. no it is rocking. Hope this helps someone else diagnose a problem in the future.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    Glad to hear they hunted it down. It did sound like a keyless entry/alarm issue, so I was just about to ask if you have had the car since new. Glad I read all the way to the bottom of the thread! :blush:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Bill,

    You have a tough one there, but much of it makes sense given the order in which the events occured. It could all stem from an evap system failure, so that is what I would go after first. It is a complex system, so this is just one possible senario:

    The evap system captures excessive vapors in the tank, stores them in the charcoal canister, then routes them to the intake manifold. It can only hold so much, and is only supposed vent to the intake at certain times, otherwise it will screw up the mixture. The vent that leads into the canister is typically located up in the filler neck, which is one reason why you should not overfill your tank. Flooding the canister can cause multiple valve failures. Or maybe it has some other problems unrelated to something you did....

    So lets consider an evap system malfunction as the trigger issue. It now dumps fuel into the intake at the wrong time. The oxygen sensor sees too much fuel, and plays havoc with the mixture. The cat cannot compensate, so the system flags the cat as bad. Maybe it now is, or again it could be just an instrumentation error.

    You replace the cat, but do not address the primary cause. Fuel system pressures, particularly in the tank itself vary wildly. Sediment breaks loose from the walls, and either clogs the fuel filter, or get thru, partially clogging fuel injectors. Lean mixture gives the misfire code, due to uneven cylinder firing in two of four (uneven power output), and triggers the lean mix indication as the oxygen sensor has no clue what the heck is going on, or how to compensate.

    Solution - in this order: Get professional help for the evap system. I doubt many could tackle this one. Then change the fuel filter. Clear the codes and see what shows up now. Consider getting an injector cleaning. You might have to end up changing one or more. If you cooked them, you might end up changing the O2 sensor, and the cat again.

    Steve
  • lakepoplakepop Member Posts: 221
    Anyone mess with upgrading/replacing the horn on a late model Outback.

    Have a 07 that I would like to put some Hella horns on. It looks like I need to REMOVE the bumper facia to get at them.

    Anyone shed some light on this......comments are helpful....thanks.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Don't replace, just add. What you can do is wire in some Hella Supertones behind the grille with a relay. Use the trigger wire for the relay tapped off the current horns or the horn relay under the hood.

    -mike
  • lakepoplakepop Member Posts: 221
    Mike...my plan is to disconnect the wires from the existing OEM horns. Connect those wires to extensions to a new relay and wire in the horns off that relay. Horns will be mounted behind grill in front of radiator.

    Now all that part is easy...its the getting to the OEM horns as a starting point that is currently my problem. I have pulled the grill and the front part of the air intake....NADA horns......They are apparently down under everything somewhere behind the fog lights. I really am reluctant to pull the bumper facia on this brand new 07 Outback Ltd for fear of messing something up.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Why not add the Hellas in addition? I always leave the OEM horns in place and run the trigger for the Hella relay off the relay for the OEMs in the relay box under the hood.

    -mike
  • lakepoplakepop Member Posts: 221
    Mike...a doable plan ...BUT ..I do NOT know where the OEM horn relay is. I assumed it was located near the OEM horns...which I am having trouble getting to. I do not have access to a wiring diagram or a schematic of where stuff is located.

    By the by...I do appreciate your inputs . As a long time member I have always respected your knowledge of Subes....Thanks.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The relay isn't down near the horns. There should be a black box with a cover on it. In there, will be a horn relay. What you do is strip a wire down leaving about 1" of exposed wire, and you basically jam it in with the relay on one of the 4 connections (you have to figure out which connection is hot when you hit the horn button) and this wire you then connect to the trigger on the hella relay. If I was in front of your car I could do it in about 5 minutes!

    -mike
  • lakepoplakepop Member Posts: 221
    OK.....I'll check under the hood tomorrow and see if I can figure it out. I'm guessing that it will be somewhere near the main fuse panel on the drivers side under the hood. Not sure about figuring out which of the 4 connections would be the right one....the wire stripping/jamming doesn't worry me ...I'll keep you posted.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    If you have a test light, pull the relay and test the 4 connections to see which is the +12v that comes on when you hit the horn. That's how I figured it out on mine

    -Mike
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I've read about one person who was able to get to the OEM horns by going from underneath the vehicle. As you have correctly observered, the horns are located behind the passenger side fog light. You can unbutton the plastic shroud from underneath and reach up into the area. However, you will have very limited visibility and working space.

    Ken
  • lakepoplakepop Member Posts: 221
    Mike ...located the relay.....I'll probably wire via your suggestion......now if the weather would warm some....:)

    Thanks again !
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    No problem, I use the same method for hooking up driving lights to my high beams, works quite well.

    -mike
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    We took you up on your suggestion: "Get professional help."

    Suddenly we are all institutionalized! :P
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • fordwrenchfordwrench Member Posts: 70
    I just picked an '03 Legasy L 5 speed & the clutch chatters only when cold & this is the hardest car to drive smoothly on take off. I've driven manuals for 30 years & I just can't get this one to behave! The car only has 38k miles and the powertrain warr. is still in effect. The questions are: is clutch chatter common, are Legasys hard to drive smoothly, will the clutch be a covered item being a chatter problem & not a wear problem? Also the seats are quite hard like there is a lumbar pad way out of adjustment but there is no adjustment for this.Can I have one more question? How much is a '96 OBW with 139k miles worth? It's really in perfect condition with more options than the '03 I just got.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Thanks, Wes! I needed a laugh.

    I wish some of these guys would come back and tell us how it worked out.

    Steve
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    1) There was a TSP on clutch issues, but someone with a std would have to elaborate on the details.

    2) There is an adjustable lumbar on my '02 Outback, but I don't think they put it on the base Legacy models. Unfortunately, it was far too low and hit me closer to the hip rather than my lumbar region, requiring some "re-engineering" on my part. There is a hard panel on the back of the seat. Slide it straight up about a half inch and pop the bottom of the board outward, then slide it down to release the top. There should be just enough fabric at the bottom to allow this. Once inside, you might be able to modify the padding, cross bracing, etc.

    3) Wes can probably answer the question of a higher mileage gen 1 OBW.

    Steve
  • afarmerafarmer Member Posts: 2
    When I put my 2000 Outback, automatic transmission, in to drive. It needs to be revved to 2-4 rpm several times before it will engage. This also happens when I shift from reverse to drive,but not as bad. All other shifting is fine.
    It seems temperature might have some effect. When it's very cold it does seem to happen as bad. But once the car is warmed up it happens.

    Any information would be help full, so I don't go to a shop "blind".
  • bogey5bogey5 Member Posts: 35
    I don't know if this is the right thread for this question but I have no doubt that you'll show me the way...........

    I have a 17' Old Town canoe I want to carry on my 06 OBW. I understand that use of the standard roof rack isn't recommended. Anyone use Thule or Yakima gear with something called a Maine roller to load and support a canoe? Being old.........or near old, I can't whip the canoe on top of the car like I used to and need some help.

    Pastor Steve
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Either your fluid is low or your torque converter is on it's way out. Check your fluid first if it's full then it may be the torque converter.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My Forester has two horns. There may be another one, more hidden.

    -juice
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    3) Wes can probably answer the question of a higher mileage gen 1 OBW.

    Higher mileage?! Okay, maybe my perspective is a bit skewed..... :blush:

    Fordwrench, it really depends on where you live. Here (Fairbanks, AK), in "good" condition, I would say it is probably worth $4,000 as a private party sale. But, I have seen them sell for MUCH cheaper (closer to $2000) in other markets, so again, it really depends on your area. I have also noticed that some places (northeast in particular), the metal cladding in the engine compartment tends to rust. I had 220,000 on mine and, with most of its years spent in Anchorage and Fairbanks, the only place there was any rust was on the top edges of the battery anchor - and I mean that was it. I mention that because if those parts are rusting, it is likely that surface rust is developing in other places on the car...
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    How much does this canoe weigh?

    The roof rack supports (side bars) indicate that one should not exceed 100# total load, but I will admit that I have done this a time or two. *cough* Okay, so I did it every single time I loaded it, which was probably a dozen or more times a year. :blush:

    I would, personally, tape a pair of skid pads onto each of the factory "aero" crossbars - perhaps old terry cloth towels, etc, then load the boat from the rear of the car and slide it forward to a point of balance on the cross bars. Then I would secure it fore and aft with ropes laced through the recovery anchors on the underside of the front of the car (there is one on each side of the front, IIRC, and one in the back, located centrally) - use them all. If the boat does not feel secure enough to you at that point, you could also tether it from the bow back to the front of each side rail, and (again, if necessary) the same on the back.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Check the fluid level and condition first, and address this.

    Once it does engage, it shifts thru the gears OK? The problem might be sticky components in the valve body. With time, heat breaks down the transmission fluid, and gum deposits form. There are many small parts and orifices in the valve body that direct which clutches to engage. If they stick, revving the engine might raise fluid pressures to the point where they break free and move.

    The best way would be to remove the assembly, inspect, and properly clean it. Sometimes a fluid change with solvent flush can help. Find a shop that has a machine with a solvent cycle, and instruct them to work the shifter so that it gets to where it is needed. It the performance improves, drain and refill the tranny a week or two later to flush out whatever has become loose so that it does not find its way back there again.

    Steve
  • ted55ted55 Member Posts: 11
    Hi Afarmer, and anyone else out there with a 2000 Outback with an automatic trans.,
    I bought my 2000 Outback about six months ago from a dealer in South Jersey. The car had 56K and it ran nicely. After a few months I started noticing the symptoms you described and started doing some research. If you look at some of these discussion boards, you'll find MANY of us have the same problem with the trans. Mine finally culminated with the trans dying after 6 months and 6K miles. I had read where Subaru charges $4K to replace it if it is out of warranty like mine. I had it towed to a Subaru dealer (not where I bought it) and they diagnosed that the trans seals were shot and they would either charge me $2K to rebuild it or, $4K for a new one from Subaru. I then sat down and wrote a polite letter to Subaru of N.A. describing my plight and how I felt that this constituted a design flaw as well as a safety issue. I also mentioned that I had found MANY other people such as yourself, with the same problem. Long story shortened, Subaru responded very quickly and very nicely, by offering to have my original dealer replace the trans with a new unit from Subaru for $1K. I've had the car back now for about a month and it shifts smoothly, with no hint of hesitation or jumping into gear from reverse to drive. I STRONGLY urge you and anyone else with this problem to write to Subaru and tell them that you need their help, before you have an accident as a result of their negligence.
  • bogey5bogey5 Member Posts: 35
    Wes........it's about 80#'s. The Maine roller I was talking about is a cool piece that attaches to the Thule or Yakima rear cross bar and stabilizes and rolls the canoe up onto the car. From what I've seen it really makes it easy.
  • fordwrenchfordwrench Member Posts: 70
    Thanks for the response, in the Chicago area edmunds put the value at $4000 also. I was a little surprised at the high value these hold. There is NO rust anywhere on this car, the only "problem" is the dr. seat cushion is real tired & is quite uncomfortable for me. The seat heaters even work!
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    Whew, that sounds like it WOULD be easy! You can attach the round Thule and Yakima bars directly to the factory side rails (as long as you get the right bar mounts), so if you are inclined to go with a pre-built system, this is probably the best way to go. I tend to be more of a work-with-what-you-have person (as if anyone had not figured that out!), which I why I suggested the improvised skid surface.

    I still do recommend that you strap it down with ropes on either end, as this will hold the boat most stable (versus strapping it across the boat and only to the roof rack assembly or using bungee style straps) when those highway-speed winds start hitting it. Inverted canoes have a huge air space there to collect that forced air and they will expose weaknesses in the securing method real quick!

    80# is safe for the rack, even strapped down (i.e., more downward pressure on the system). If you need to rest the bow of the boat on the back of the car while you reposition and work it up onto that Maine roller, put a towel on top of the lift gate and a piece of soft foam on top of that. Then, when you rest the boat on the foam, it will slide effortlessly (and safely!) across the roof until you can work it onto the roller.

    The new aero cross bars will work, but they are actually meant for clamping accessories rather than direct usage.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • lakepoplakepop Member Posts: 221
    Juice....Am selling my 01 Forester and now have a 07 Outback Ltd. The Forester was a seamless horse ..BUT the Outback was too good to pass up.

    The Outback also has 2 horns ..buried down under the snorkus....got to them today and have access to the wiring which is all I need to put in some Hellas.

    Mike gave me another option which allows the use of the OEM horns + the Helas.....I'm undecided at this point...but will decide manyana with the actual install.
  • wilkich84wilkich84 Member Posts: 34
    I think I know the answer to this looking at many of the previous posts but does it make sense that a head gasket could blow at 95,000 miles on a 97 OB? I just got this verdict from our garage which I trust. Also the car was doing the classic overheating and sputtering right before I took it in. However, the mechanic kept referring to the hydrocarbons in the exhaust as meaning something which I'm not sure of.

    Also, any ideas on what to do with a useless car? Can't really sell it and the charitable donation tax break has become less appealing. It's a second car we don't use much so I'm not in a rush.

    Been looking at an 04 Forrester XT and was wondering if they are reliable. Consumer Reports likes the Forrester but does not break out the turbo.

    Thanks.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Make sure not to do a direct replacement of the Hellas to the stock horns, the Hellas will draw too much power and kill your wiring harness.

    -mike
  • brendoy11brendoy11 Member Posts: 2
    Hi! I need some help badly. I own a 1997 subaru impreza outback. It's in decent condition but I always seem to have some sort of problem with the battery. Today I drove a friend to work. I turned off the car to go buy a drink and when I went back the car would not start, though the radio and door open chime went off. I got jumped by someone and made it to work, where I left the car running for another thirty minutes to ensure that it would start at the end of my day. It didn't so I took a closer look. the piece that connects the cable terminal to the battery was about to break into two pieces. So I thought hey this is simple enough to fix and I went and bought a new piece. The guy at the auto store said I would have to splice the wires, which I did though I felt like buying a new cable would have been easier. After all the splicing I finally got the wire connected to the piece but my car still wouldnt start without a jump. Could it be that the starter is the true problem? Should I just replace the whole cable? Is it time to call the mechanic? I am a teachers aide so I make little money, but I do learn very quickly. Any help would be great. If this is something I can fix on my own I would love any helpful hints. Thanks so much! :sick:
  • lakepoplakepop Member Posts: 221
    Mike...will wire in the Hella relay and connect to the battery per their instructions. I believe I'm on track with the wiring ..but appreciate your inputs...

    Since the horn wiring is easily accessible a plan might be to cut the horn wires....add some connectors then wire as per Hella instructions....will set it up so I could return to OEM with a simple plug in set up.

    Note that I've already mounted the Hellas behind the grill and everything looks pretty good.....plan on doing the wiring tomorrow.... have located a good place for the new relay and also a good ground.....so I'm on track just need to make a couple of final decisions......again my thanks for your inputs....I respect your skills.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    Was this the + or - cable? One other place I would recomment looking is to follow the grounding cable (black) back to where it connects to the bracket at the back of the engine. This bracket is held on by a bolt on the top of the starter. Try and wiggle it. If it wiggles, then the problem is that you have a bad ground - this will result in intermittent "no start" issues - basically, you turn the key on, radio, lights, etc., work fine, but you turn it to "start" and nothing happens (does not even try to turn the engine over - no click, nada). I had this problem, found that jumps always helped, but finally realized that the grounding bracket was just loose. I think a 12mm socket/wrench is what the starter bolt uses.

    If the starter "clicks" but does not crank the engine, then it might just be a bad solenoid. One way to get around this (temporarily) is to have someone "tap" on the starter with a hammer, wrench, etc., while you hold the key in the "start" position. Sometimes that will let the solenoid engage and the car will start right up. Tapping prior to trying to start may also help. This problem, however, is less/non responsive to jump starts, so I am not leaning toward this as the issue.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You can use one of those T-taps onto the OEM horn wire as a trigger as well. That's what I do on the driving lights to the highbeams on my cars.

    -mike
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Unfortunately, you do know the answer to this question... It is an all too common failure mode of these engines. Your mechanic was refering to hydrocarbons in the coolant, a clear sign that the gasket has failed, and hot exhaust gases are finding their way into the cooling system. Assuming you caught it quickly enough to avoid other major damage (like a cracked block), you can expect to pay $1500-$2000 for a basic repair. So the question is whether it is worth fixing to keep, fix to resell, or sell as is to someone mechanically inclined who will take on the repair.

    Steve
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    I use a T-tap on the OEM to a relay then to the Hella.
    The Supertones were added behind the grille after installing the Stebel Nautilus air horns behind the fender.

    -Dave
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    HYPOV! Where you been brother drop me a line one of these days.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We should meet up for the NY auto show. I just don't want to go on a weekend, maybe a Tuesday or Thursday or something?

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd fix it - pay $1200 or so and then sell it for $3500. It's worth at least twice the cost of the repair.

    Unless the rest of it is in terrible shape, that is.

    -juice
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    been at work.
    IMs been blocked ecept for the previledged few :(

    That's why you don't see me on.

    -Dave
  • bogey5bogey5 Member Posts: 35
    The problem right at the moment is the three feet of snow on top of the canoe. But once I find it again I think I'll find a Maine Roller. You'd think that I'm in Alaska not NY.
  • bahniukbahniuk Member Posts: 1
    Regarding car donation: Call your local Salvation Army. A few years ago we donated an old car that wouldn't run to them and they not only took it, they sent a wrecker to pick it up. and gave me a receipt of donation that I used on my taxes, which boosted my tax refund. I only had to use the 'fair market value' of the car, which I got from kelley bluebook .com and even then I came out ahead.
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