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Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • mountainwalkermountainwalker Member Posts: 40
    In post #7657, I mentioned work that should be done on a 2000 Subaru Outback. Would you all recommend going with an authorized Subaru dealer/repair center, or an independent garage? Independents can charge a lot less, but can be less familiar with certain makes of cars.
  • mountainwalkermountainwalker Member Posts: 40
    Would sincerely appreciate any recommendations for best independent garages in or near San Jose (Santa Clara, Sunnyvale, Mountainview, Palo Alto, Menlo Park). Would like to get a quote on repair work that I've also priced at Capitol Subaru, an authorized Subaru center/dealer in San Jose. Good independent garages can often be a better value.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Mountainwalker, it sounds like this one requires what I would consider to be a lot of repair and maintenance. I wouldn't call that a a good check up. If possible, I would pass on this vehicle (if you are purchasing it, if its a gift or something, that would be different) You are basically rebuilding the motor at that point. Subarus with the 2.5 litre engine from that era are known for having head gasket issues that sometimes require a new motor due to damage to the block. Given the oil pump issue and the leaking head gaskets, I would probably pass on this model.
    One of the maintenance items I didn't see listed there was changing the brake fluid, which is listed as a 36 mo/ 36k service in my manual. This helps the master cylinder and prevents corrosion in the calipers.
    I am also not a fan of the $99 fuel system service, as it seems to be no better than the $5-10 ones you can pick up from any auto parts store. I also think the mark up going from standard plugs to platinum is excessive, since there are only 4.
  • mountainwalkermountainwalker Member Posts: 40
    lilengineerboy,

    I sincerely appreciate the advice. What do you think considering that:

    1) the checkup was done by a Subaru authorized dealer/garage - they are typically much more expensive - I would use an independent garage and have found a few good ones that handle Subarus in the same area. The cost at an independent nearby will probably be at least 1/3 less.

    2) the leaks are not significant - they should be addressed soon, but the car drives very well - and the leaks are probably common for a car that old - remember that it's a 2000 model year.

    3) one of the most important things, cylinder compression, tested excellent

    4) cosmetically the car is in in excellent shape inside and out - one tiny dent in the bumper

    5) I can buy the car at $1600-2100 below book ($1600 if you consider the car in good condition, $2100 if excellent), the garage thought it was in pretty good condition.

    6) agree with you on the fuel treatment - would do myself

    7) I need a car ready by the time I'm local around June 15, so I've got to find one now, get it inspected and do the repairs/maintenance before I'm there (by having the seller bring the car in to the garage of my choice as part of the purchase).

    Note that I'm not challenging your advice, I really appreciate it, just giving you more data points so you can help me make a good judgement call.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Mountainman,
    More information is always good when you are making decisions or giving advice. I guess my main concern is that model's prone to head gasket issues, and coupled with the oil leaking, has me concerned about the longevity of that motor.

    While the compression test provides a vote of confidence, I would be more interested in the results of a cylinder leak-down test than a straight compression test (it can get at head gasket issues). If the gaskets are leaking internally, then that gets into the oil (which should be noticeable as the oil is milky in color), that can also mean inadequate lubrication and damaged internal bearings.

    Motor replacement (rebuilding, buying a rebuilt motor etc) is about $5k (but would include repairing all of the other maladies listed as well).

    I also noticed you mentioned bluebook, but there are different pricing schemes there. Are you talking about wholesale bluebook, private party pricing, or retail pricing? I have found some of their pricing to be optimistic as well. You might want to check the edmunds pricing, blue book pricing, and NADA prices to get a range. Pricing also varies regionally. The pacific northwest, the bay area in CA, and certain areas in the midwest or anomalies for pricing.

    I think its smart to do what you are doing and researching the vehicle's needs and pricing, its much better to go in knowing what the risks are, even if the risks are worth it.
  • mountainwalkermountainwalker Member Posts: 40
    Thanks lilengineerboy,

    I really appreciate the advice.

    How does the shop do a cylinder leak-down test? Would this have been done while they were doing the cylinder compression test? How much does it cost/how long does it take? Would the technician who worked on the car likely know the condition? I spoke with his boss, not with him. I can try to catch the tech tomorrow.

    I checked blue book pricing for the Bay Area for a car of this mileage and year.
  • mountainwalkermountainwalker Member Posts: 40
    Thanks everyone for your advice on the 2000 Subaru Outback I was looking at. Your advice saved a lot of misery.
  • mountainwalkermountainwalker Member Posts: 40
    I'm looking for a good used Subaru Outback after not needing to own a car for several years living and working in a major metropolitan area. What regular maintenance would you perform on the vehicle and when? This is a list I put together with posters on Edmunds and CarTalk and the garage that inspected a car for me. Is there anything you would add? How much do you think each of the below should cost if done by a good independent garage?

    LIST (any used car just bought should get the following, unless you know they were done within the last 3-6 months):

    - Coolant drain/fill
    - Add Subaru coolant conditioner
    - ATF (Automatic Trans Fluid)/Trans drain/fill
    - Fuel filter
    - Replace timing belt if over 90,000 miles
    - Front +Rear Differential fluid drain/fill (though often don’t need anything)
    - Replace Spark Plugs (every 30K in non-turbo Subaru engines, unless it has platinums and is under 100k)
    - Replace Spark Plug Wires (if applicable)
    - Brake Fluid Flush and Change
    - Brake Pads inspection and replacement if necessary
    - Brake pad rotors if needed (fine if look good and not felt)
    - Fuel system flush – could be done with $4-5 bottle of fuel system cleaner
    - Power steering fluid drain/fill if fluid is discolored (reconsider price/purchase if power steering fluid looks bad)
    - Replace Tires if necessary – for Subaru Outback AWD, make sure all tires matched for tread, tread depth and size

    Notes:

    - The Owner's Manuel should have a list off all of the required maintenance and when it should be done. Follow the listed services and you should have a good vehicle that lasts many miles

    - If there are good maintenance records, much of that may be up to date. I would say that the three most commonly skipped items are coolant, transmission fluid, and fuel filter. If the vehicle has >90k miles, I would also have the timing belt replaced, if it has not been already.

    - The timing belt. If there is no documented proof that the timing belt has been changed, consider it original. Average mileage for any FY 2000 car is 100,000 miles; so, the timing belt is due. When the timing belt slips, expensive harm will occur to the engine.

    - Replacing coolant and make sure you get a hold of Subaru coolant conditioner whoever performs it. Timing belt is due. Tires are very important that they are matched in wear/size/make/model. Plugs are every 30k in Subaru non-turbo engines.

    - Power steering & fuel system flush both are "wallet" flushes, don't bother.

    - Oil change - That's the *first* thing, unless the previous owner has a receipt from a fairly recent one I would assume it's been let slide in anticipation of selling. Brake pads can be inspected and only need replaced if they are worn out. Rotors should be fine if there is no problem seen or felt. Differentials probably don't need anything. Fuel system should be left alone. Power steering fluid should be left alone unless it looks bad, and then you might want to reconsider the whole purchase, or at least the price.
  • misty13misty13 Member Posts: 8
    I have an 06 OUtback wagon with 23,000 miles on it. The brakes are making a grinding sound, which I can hear in the back passenger side. I took it to the dealer and they said they could replace the brakes under warranty, but only after they reached a certain degree of worn down. Mine were not worn enough yet.
    Does this sound right? The brakes make a loud sound when you press on the brake pedal.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    When you buy any used car, the issue for me is you want a "baseline", i.e. I would swap fluids and other things out just to know how old they really are.

    What if the seller has receipts?

    Even so.

    For instance, I bought an 8 year old Miata, and got receipts for the 30k service, including a gear oil change.

    I changed the gear oil in the gearbox, and that was indeed OK.

    But when I went to change the fluid in the rear differential - oops. They missed that.

    The stuff looked like melted chocolate.

    So even with the receipt for the 30k service indicating all fluids were changed, they had not changed the rear diff oil.

    At least inspect things like that.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    An excellent Subaru repair shop is Askim's Auto Works in San Rafael, CA, just over the GG Bridge. Worth the trip.

    If the head gaskets are leaking on a 2.5 motor, it's going to have to come out.

    Given your list, I wouldn't pay more than $1,000 for that car, because I'll bet you you'll be in it at least another $5,000 before you're done. And for that amount, you can just go buy a nice late 90s Subaru Outback all ready to roll.
  • mountainwalkermountainwalker Member Posts: 40
    I ran from that deal faster than you can imagine - $5,000 was exactly what I estimated the repairs would cost. I'm now looking exclusively at 6 cylinder 01-03 models, LL Bean and VDC editions. I really like what I've read about the H6 engines - they don't have any of the head gasket issues the 4 cylinders tend to have and they have dual timing chains rather than a timing belt, which aren't prone to failure like the 4 cylinder timing belt.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The belts were OK, actually. The change interval is 105k miles on the 2.5l.

    It is an interference design but no Edmunds member who owns a Subaru ever reported a belt breaking here that I know of.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It's very rare I think. The 2.5 is a good engine. I consistently get 26 mpg and run 75 mph all day long. (you can't go much slower than that in California or you die). Just plan on head gaskets at 100K or more.

    Tire size is very important on a Subaru.

    the mechanics at Askim's have a running gag. One asks out loud "When was the last time you checked your oil level?" and the other two chime in with a loud "I DON"T KNOW"......the 2.5 will burn some oil.
  • mountainwalkermountainwalker Member Posts: 40
    I'm sure you are right, but several people and techs recommended changing them before 105K, as early as 90K to be safe. That's not something you want failing on you. In any case, the 6 cylinder is a superior design with the timing chains and none of the head gasket leaking issues.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    There are pros and cons I think. The auto trans on the 3.0 liter engine isn't very good in terms of using those extra cubic inches, and city gas mileage on the 3.0 isn't all that great. I can get up to 30 mpg on the 2.5 HWY and I don't think the 3.0 will do that.

    But a 3.0 manual shift car would be very tempting.
  • mountainwalkermountainwalker Member Posts: 40
    Good points, but several references I've seen in the forums and other forums show only a 1mpg difference for highway between the 2.5L and 3.0. I'll give up the 1mpg for a more reliable engine with good acceleration when needed for safety (and a vehicle nicely loaded with features - the older H6s had many more).
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    I can't speak to highway miles since I do not typically get out on the road for long distances with my Outback. But around town in typical suburban commuting my 98 2.5L OB would get 22-23 MPG and my 06 3.0 OB gets about 21-22 MPG. I'll gladly trade 1 MPG for the better performance of my current OB. I thought the 98 was a bit of a dog.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Was that a manual trans you had. My '97 is pretty torquey all things considered. But it is a freshened engine.

    I really don't like the 3.0 auto trans I have to say. The erratic shifting takes all the juice out of that engine. You have to shift it manually to get the benefit of the .5 liter, IMO.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    as early as 90K to be safe

    Indeed, I think the manual calls for an inspection at that mileage.

    If you open it up, may as well change it.
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    Sorry, the 98 was the 4 speed auto.

    I am not sure what you mean by erratic shifting. I am very pleased with mine, but I don't expect it to be a sports car. Pleased, if I ignore the fact that I am on my second transmission at 36K miles, that is.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    er...that's not good. Well let's be optimistic. No, it's not a sports car, but it handles passably well for an AWD of reasonable size.

    I'd have bought a 3.0 if one had been available with all the reconditioning the 2.5 had.
  • shiner50shiner50 Member Posts: 9
    At a decrease in engine speed with the a/c on I am getting sounds like a low note from a flute. I found that the sound is coming from the low side a/c line coming out of the firewall. Any ideas?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You sure it's only with the A/C on?

    If you hear it all the time, check the intake to make sure the intake silencer snorkel thingy has not detached.

    It actually had a name - the Phase I hum.
  • jonkarpoffjonkarpoff Member Posts: 2
    I have a 2005 Outback 2.5XT with 26K. Bought new. Little hwy driving. No hard braking. Heard a whistle in rear left wheel in Jan. Took it to my dealer - they said the brakes were fine. Whistle continued. Took it back in March. Dealer said it was fine. Took it in last Wednesday - asked if it was the brakes or the wheel bearing problem. They said brakes were fine - bearings were fine. I insisted they check it out again. After 3 days with the car they suddenly discovered that BOTH rear pads are shot and ALL 4 rotors need cutting! They say you can't change pads w/o cutting rotors. That's news to me. Am I being scammed or is it just negligence and/or incompetence?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I think they should've checked pad alignment before and or verified the calipers were free and not binding. The fact that suddenly you need all 4 brakes replaced makes me wonder.
    The thing about turning the rotors when you replace the pads is in line with conventional wisdom. The new pads need a new surface to seat properly and bed the pad into the rotor. In real life, I have done pads without rotors with no ill effects, but its not recommended SOP.
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    Why are the front rotors being cut? Are they changing the front pads too...even though a few days earlier they were fine???
  • shiner50shiner50 Member Posts: 9
    The sound only occurs when the a/c is running and it is sporadic. It is definately coming through the low side line, it's almost like the expansion valve is or something is restricting the flow because it also drags my engine down each time it makes the noise, I have never seen or heard anything like this before....
  • dgreene1dgreene1 Member Posts: 9
    Hi.

    I picked up a 2008 Legacy 2.5i Special Edition at a great price at the end of January. Great car, and I'm scheduled for my first service this Thursday. I've got a couple of things I want them to look at (in addition to the recommended oil and filter).

    1. My headlights are slightly out of alignment. I've never had a vehicle with lights as bright as these, and since they are so bright, it's quite noticeable that they are out of alignment, albeit by just a fraction.

    2. I have an annoying squeak coming from either the driver's seat or the center console (it's really hard to pinpoint exactly where). I think it may be the seat since I can hear it after any movement (turns, starts, etc). It does sound like it's coming from the console though (maybe rubbing?) so that's why I can't be sure. Note that I'm an average-sized guy :-)

    Just wondering if anyone else has had these issues (couldn't find any reference on this forum)? I'm sure they'll be able to fix the headlights (unless maybe the adjustment is so minimal that they can't), but it's the squeak that's really bugging me.

    Thanks.

    Dave
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    if you're still under 3/36 your pads should be covered by the limited wear warranty
  • jonkarpoffjonkarpoff Member Posts: 2
    They say the front rotors are warped but the pads are fine.
  • tsothentsothen Member Posts: 1
    I have a 1992 Subaru Legacy with 190k miles. I had the transmission replaced about two years ago and it has been running fine. Tonight I got in the car and it started fine. When I pushed the black button in to shift into drive the shifter wont move. Could this be my transmission again?
  • ted55ted55 Member Posts: 11
    I had a similar problem with my 2000 Outback with AT. It turned out to be something really lame, but nonetheless it wouldn't go into gear from a standing start. I have a trash bag in the car that has a nylon hanging strap on it. I got into the habit of hanging the bag from the shift lever. Turns out that when I stopped the car and put it into Park, the edge of the strap got caught between the shift lever and the base, preventing the lever from being locked into Park. Now when I tried to move the shifter it wouldn't budge until I realized what had happened. Stupid? Yes, but an easy fix at least! Hope you hung your trash bag there also!!
  • ted55ted55 Member Posts: 11
    Here's a dumb question for you - with the cost of gas going through the roof these days, what would be the ramification of pulling the fuse out that governs the AWD and just running on 2WD until inclement weather and then just putting the fuse back in???
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's not meant for long-term use, but here's a pic that shows you where it is (on a 2001 Outback).

    It's really meant for when the vehicle is being towed, or for when you get a flat tire.
  • shiner50shiner50 Member Posts: 9
    I had a local garage replace my a/c compressor, high side line, liquid dryer, and expansion valve. I have had nothing but trouble since. Here is one for you subbie braniacs! Now I am getting a low pitch ( sounds like a low note played on a flute ) sound when I run the a/c. What I just described is what it sounds like from inside the car. I popped the hood and tracked the noise to the low side metal a/c line. It is actually reverberating in a cyclic manner. You can feel it reverberating when you put your hand on it. I have no clue other than some kind of restriction. HELP! SHINER 50
  • shiner50shiner50 Member Posts: 9
    It only sounds off when the a/c is on. I checked the intake and all is well. Is it possible to have a defective expansion valve? Also, when it starts this cyclic noise the engine drags down and the a/c stops cooling until the noise subsides...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sorry, I don't know the first thing about HVAC. I was hoping it was something loose on the intake, because that I've dealt with.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    as early as 90K to be safe

    Indeed, I think the manual calls for an inspection at that mileage.

    If you open it up, may as well change it.

    Inspection is actually every 30k miles. Takes less than 5 min by removing one side of the timing belt cover.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Here's a dumb question for you - with the cost of gas going through the roof these days, what would be the ramification of pulling the fuse out that governs the AWD and just running on 2WD until inclement weather and then just putting the fuse back in???

    Only meant for low-speed, short distances. Also it may not save you milage, you still have to drag around the rear diffy and turn the gears and drive shafts, so this will just put more strain on the front driveline.

    -mike
  • tomkat12tomkat12 Member Posts: 2
    G'day
    I have a 2005 SOL with about 83,000 miles, purchased in Nov. of 04. I think this seems to be a bit odd for only a almost 4 yr old car even with 83,000 miles. My check engine lite came on took it to the dealer and was told for $6300 I would need to replace my Cat. I had them reset the code, it came back on after about 400 miles, then off about 40, then on again about 2, this is very disturbing. Is there anything I can do without shelling out for the new cat? Maybe if I used a premium gas for a while or have something else checked to rule out that the cat is not bad, I can't believe that it would fail so soon. I feel like I purchased a lemon due to other problems prior with the air conditioner and 2 batteries. Please give some alternative solutions or let me know this is not as odd as I believe. Thanks Kat
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hmm, I'm wondering how long the emissions warranty is for. Check your owner's manual to see how long the coverage is for that, it's probably longer than the powertrain warranty.
  • eskeresker Member Posts: 5
    I had the same code a couple years ago, didn't have the cash to fix. It came on several times, now it doesn't anymore. But the cost was around $1500, not $6300. Long term damages? Is it only pollution?
  • tomkat12tomkat12 Member Posts: 2
    The gentleman at the dealership said it was so high due to the precious metals in it. to answer ateixeira, the warranty is over, of course. lol I believe there has to be something else to boost the cat or clean it, maybe even hit the junk yard for a used one would be more cost friendly, I would hate to trade it in for another just to come up with the same problems in an unrealistic time frame..... kat
  • rviradiarviradia Member Posts: 44
    Looking at buying a 2005 legacy gt manual w/80K miles, 1 owner and carfax is clean, besides timing belt change in 10K, do I need to worry about anything else like turbo replacement.

    Thanks
  • maryp3177maryp3177 Member Posts: 6
    I own a '96 Legacy Outback wagon. 265K miles on it. I inherited it from a friend, so I've only owned it about 5 months. Yesterday, as my husband was driving, the clutch started to make a loud "click" noise whenever he pushed it in. We are fearful that the clutch is going and will need to be totally replaced soon, but we thought there was a chance that something was just loose and needed to be tightened. What do you all think? Thanks so much!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Turbo should be fine. Usual signs of worn turbo are high-pitched whine that gets very loud, and also blue smoke out exhaust on cold start up.

    CARFAX is good but it can miss accident damage, so I'd certainly have the car on a lift and checked out. I've seen cars with as many as 3 major accidents, with no CARFAX records showing whatsoever. One BMW had the whole side caved in (friend's car) but the CARFAX on the car is clean. But with one owner, car is probably just fine.

    Also keep in mind that on Subarus if tires are worn you must replace all 4 of them. So if you have two worn tires and two good ones, you are still in for 4.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You might check for a binding hydraulic master cylinder or hydraulic slave cylinder. Often a mechanic's stethoscope can locate a problem within these units. Otherwise, yeah, with that high mileage, you could have a bent clutch fork internally or some other form of wear, or a faulty clutch pressure plate. You need to have the car lifted and the noise precisely located. Could be small deal, medium deal or big deal.

    Visiting Host
  • cricket240cricket240 Member Posts: 1
    I need to know what type of ac my subaru has so I know which refrigerant gauge to buy. How do I find this out? It is not in my owner's manual. and, I cannot find it anywhere online.

    Please help!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It's R138 but unless you are well-trained in AC repair, and have the proper evacuation, charging, and safety equipment, I would have a shop do this work. You can hurt yourself or damage the car, or both. Those kits you buy at the store don't cut it. Some people get lucky, some don't.
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