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Comments
Well at least the radiator has to be cleaned out. You've got to do something to it--it would be negligent, in my opinion, to cool a recently refreshed engine with a dirty old radiator. I'd also consider a new oil pump as long as everything's apart.-- or at least an inspection and measurement of it internally.
Need to lower 'em a smidge, and I can't remember which way to turn the bloomin' screw! :confuse:
Cheers!
Paul
Always adjust the vertical (nearer the fender) first, then the horizontal.
CCW is down. Half a turn was enough to tell which way they were going.
Thanks.
Paul
Is this something that has come on gradually or started suddenly?
I suspect worn tie rod ends or ball joints.... possibly both.
Is there a way to adjust the rear camber and if so, how can I do this. The tire shop told me it was not adjustable and that they couldn't help me.
Thanks in advance for the suggestions.
I've had a ton!! of work done lately and have some reoccurring problems that may be related - please see separate post No. 8137 )
Symptoms: Briefly, it feels like my care wobbles at low speeds; at speeds >50mph I feel a shake in the steering wheel; at speeds >35-40 steering wheel shakes when breaking; my car pulls hard (1-2-seconds could be off the road when not holding wheel) to left or right depending on how the tires are rotated.
I’ve had the following work done in the last 2,000 miles:
- new center differential $$$
- replaced right-front axle, ball joint
- 4-wheel alignment and balancing (rear camber off -0.9 | see Post No. 8136)
- new rotors (pads replaced ~4,000 miles ago and rotors were turned at same time. However the rotors still sounded like something was dragging and it turned out (supposedly) that the rotors were warped, so I replaced them. However, I suddenly have the same symptoms that I did 2,000 miles ago before replacing rotors)
As stated earlier I'm trying to determine what’s going on here and whether:
(a) my tires are causing my symptoms and need to be replaced,
(b) my current tires will ruin my new center differential and need to be replaced,
(c) I got a set of bad rotors and they should be replaced at no charge (shop says I must have hit a puddle and warped them after 2K miles), or
(d) I need to continually keep dumping $$ into my car (which I can’t afford) to fix something further that hasn’t been caught.
I greatly appreciate your advice!!!
A lot of times the tread will last a long time but that doesn't mean the rubber hasn't aged beyond its useful life.
I had some Nitto tires that lasted forever and still had tread left in them, but what was a quiet tire for the first 40k miles because obnixiously loud after that. I swapped them out for a set of Falkens and the ride was so much more quiet it wasn't even funny. The Nittos had tread left but they were done.
Any thoughts about whether I need new tires; affect on diff; wheel shimmy, etc? Thanks again.
Vibration at speed may be more due to a poorly balanced tire than anything else; have you addressed that, using a high-quality machine such as a Hunter balancer?
Strong vibration when brakes are applied tends to point toward a warped rotor, but it can also be caused by uneven braking (as in left side grabs harder than right) combined with worn ball joints, tie rods, or steering linkages. You can usually feel the difference in the steering wheel - warped rotors usually cause a vibration through the steering column, but do not cause any pulling either left or right. Uneven braking or worn parts will cause a strong pull to one side or a fast, strong, alternating pull left and right (so, it feels like a vibration, but it causes the wheel to move right and left).
I don't buy the "deep puddle" theory. I have driven through many a puddle with no ill rotor effects, so unless the rotor is junk or they were super-heated for some reason, a puddle is not going to warp them. I put 220,000 miles on the original rotors of my '96 Outback and they were still as true on that day as they were nearly 12 years and 220,000 miles prior. Have you adjusted the lug nuts to ensure there is an appropriate, and evenly applied, level of torque? Over-tightening, especially when unevenly done, can warp rotors.
Based on the information you supplied regarding individual tire tread depth, I do not think the tires on the car are causing differential damage.
Tires are relatively cheap. 49k miles is a lot, I think. I've only owned one set of tires that ever lasted that long, and guess what? It was those Nittos that were making all that noise.
Check the bearings first, but if they're OK I'd get new tires.
My Subaru guy refuses to install them anymore.
In response to xwesx (No. 8140)
The tire shop says that "there is no factory adjustment for rear camber", so they never attempted to adjust it even though the camber was at -0.9, -1.0. It looks like -0.9 is the threshold b/w acceptable and unacceptable camber according to their graphics.
*-* Are they correct that rear camber can not be adjusted? If not, what to do? *-*
I did have the tires balanced, but I don’t know what machine they used. All they do is tires, so I figure it’s a good machine (I can hear you laughing)
Thanks for the excellent clarification regarding the types of shake/vibration I could feel in the wheel when braking. After thinking about it more, when braking I feel a fast, strong, alternating pull left and right. That said, the car veers hard to the left of right, depending on how the tires are rotated and when braking, that doesn’t change – it simply pulls to the same side it did prior to applying the brake.
*-* Given that the direction of pull changes with tire rotation, do you think that this is a tire issue or part failure or something that was not tightened during alignment? The pull began immediately following the last alignment, however the wheel alternating left/right when braking only began recently *-*
________________________________________
In response to ateixeira (No. 8141).
I assume the wheel bearings are fine given all the work I’ve had done recently on axel, ball joint etc. But will check. I appreciate the advice.
________________________________________
In response to Mr Shiftright (No. 8142).
Yes it was an after market axle, prob. China made. The first axle they put only lasted 1-week. Not sure if this axle is beginning to go, but there’s not clunking when I back up with the wheel cut all the way, and have had it checked twice recently (by pulling on it with the car up).
*-*How would I check this myself, or if I brought it back to the shop, what would I ask them to do? *-*
________________________________________
Again, thanks to everyone here, but unfortunately the work was done by different shops, so I’m not sure where to go first. The work went: axle | then differential/ball joint, etc | then alignment/balancing. Who should I bring the car back to first. Thanks again!!
Hahahaha; I swear that I did not start laughing until I read that bit....!
But, point taken. I was thinking that perhaps there was a significant out-of-balance issue, but I doubt this is the case. Mediocre machines/technique may result in large lead balancing weights on the rims and subtle vibration at high speeds, but nothing like you are experiencing.
You say ball joint(s?) were replaced! Both of the fronts? If that is the case, and you have the side to side movement without a change in "pull" direction, your brakes likely are grabbing evenly, but you may have some play in the tie rods. This all started happening immediately after the last alignment? How about toe-in? Toe-in means the front tires point toward one another a little, sorta like this: /-----\ in order to track the road properly. If that is not adequate, those tires could be grabbing all sorts of funky and it may not be consistent, especially if there is play in suspension joints that allows the pressure to be relieved through movement in one (or more!) joints. It could pull left for a while, then shift right after you turn a corner or negotiate a curve, then go back again after the next maneuver. Normally an alignment shop checks the condition of things like tie rods, ball joints, etc., because worn suspension components means an alignment is not going to help. But, if the shop is just after the quick buck, who knows?
What a headache!
So, here are a few things that could cause the caster to be out of spec: if the negative caster is too little, it may be due to worn rear control arm bushings. The bushing are replaceable. If too great, it could be due to a weak spring or a bent strut.
The control arms are also replaceable, and you could put an adjustable control arm in there. The one I was looking at a few minutes ago was Perrin, I think, and a pair was something like $250. :surprise:
Another suggestion, that I gleaned from NASIOC, is that if the car is not quite tracking properly, the rear subframe could be slightly shifted from square in relation to the chassis of the vehicle. There are, apparently, four bolts that attach the subframe to the chassis, and those can be loosened to allow for adjustment of the system (by a professional!). Also mentioned were camber bolts, that could be fitted retroactively, in order to adjust the wheel assembly's relationship to the strut. This was suggested only if the integrity of all other parts in the rear suspension were verified to be in good order.
The last time I was at the dealership for a quick oil change, they mentioned that my tires seem to be wearing at the edges. I do have my tires rotated regularly at 6000-7000 miles and they currently have about 30k miles on them. They noted that I may need to replace my "adjusters" and if they started this process it may take more time and require more work.
Any idea what these adjusters are ??
Here's an update on my situation.
(1) Had 4 new tires put on, balanced, 4-wheel alignment.Still had wheel shake at high speeds and under braking.
(2) Had front rotors turned and put on new front pads. Took great care to make sure all wheels (lugs) were properly tightened (star pattern) and torqued to 75 ft/lbs.
**WOW - problem was gone (so I thought). Although, I still felt the slightest vibration in the wheel, had no visible skake and the car tracked straight.
(3) This morning on the way to work the shake came back (200 miles since turning rotors and new pads and new tires were put on). At speeds around 65-70 I would get an intermittent wheel shake (very minor) and then when braking above 60 the wheel shake returned (wheel turns back and forth very rapidly). If I tap the brakes I don't feel this, but if I apply some pressure (not slam on the brakes) the wheel shakes, but the car continues straight - no pulling.
I've been driving very carefully (not aggressive) trying to allow the pads to seat. This is so disheartening - I've dumped thousands into this car (see posts above) and simply can't continue to put $$ into this car.
Any further suggestions are greatly appreciated - I need to figure this out quick.
Thanks again and any other thoughts are also welcome.
If by chance they are after-market, the center holes may be too big... the wheels could be perfectly balanced off the car, but if they aren't on-center when they're mounted, it won't matter. Without inserts to take up the slack, they could be off-center.
(Voice of experience - I've been through the same process)
Good luck.
Cheers!
Paul
Believe it or not, I took both front wheels off last night and through the old pads back on just to see what would happen. Now the wheel shake appears to be gone. I've driven at variable speeds and braked rather had, but as of yet can't duplicate the shake that was present before.
Does this mean that the rotor is not warped or did putting the old pads on compensate for some degree of warping and it's only a matter of time until the symptom re-appears.
Called Subaru and inquired about it. Forwarded relevant invoices and such including the 2004 recall for the cooling system additive.
Subaru is forwarding a check for the labor. This is awesome seeing as I have 106k on the car and it is almost 9 years old.
Thank you Subaru!
Keep records.
zbit
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/airfiltration.html#00-04legacy
I've got an '01 Outback wagon and having a hard time with step No1 (removing glove box). When I push in the sides of the glove box I can't reach the back-side of the knock pins to get them to unhook. Someone suggested to me that I could leave them in place and just push in both sides of the glove box on drag it out. I've tried this and it seems like I'll end-up breaking the glove box. Does anyone have a trick to remove the knock pinsif OR can I simply leave the knock pins in place and squeeze the heal out of the box to remove. I don't want to break anything.
Thanks in advance.
I also recently had the rotors cut (turned) and that made a huge difference, but I still get a slight *intermittent* wheel shake, sometimes it's pronounced, sometimes it barely there. Although I have new tires, that were aligned and balanced, someone suggested that they may still be out of balance... Hate to keep paying for balancing.
Appreciate the info on the fuse and AWD system!
To adjust them you'll need just a short screw driver.
First get under the car and undo the clips that hold the plastic wheel well in place. Let that hang to the side and you'll see the fog light just in front of the wheel. There are several screws that hold the fog light in place and just one to adjust it. The ones holding it in place all look the same, leave those alone. The one to adjust the beam is screwed into a small contraption towards the top of the fog light. You'll need quite a few rotations of the adjustment screw to see any difference.
Hopefully this is helpful. Although, if when you get down there, you have trouble send me a message and I'll see if I cant get under my car to snap a photo or something.
Good luck!
Hunter
Anyone confirm?