Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

Mr_Shiftright · January 2010

It would be a marginal recommendation, since your tires are bigger than the 55s. So your speedo would read slow, meaning that when your speedo says 60 mph, you are doing 62 mph. I guess if you replaced all four tires this would be okay, but with Subaru AWD, all 4 tires must be the same size. Your 60s are about 1" larger diameter than the 55s, so I personally wouldn't put just 2 on that are 60s and 2 that are 55s. That could be asking for trouble.

The rule of thumb tire swaps on "normal" cars is no more than 3% difference. Your swap would be 3.3%.

nornet · January 2010

Thanks for the info. The larger tires (it's a set of 4) are almost brand new. My primary concern was about wheel well clearance as the OE Yokamakas (205 50 R17) seems tight compared to my Outback. If the only issue is the spedo being off a few percent then I should be OK?

fibber2 · January 2010

I did a little poking around the Cars101 site to see if I could figure it out. I noticed that there are different turning circle figures depending on which of the wheel/tire combos (17" or 18") you choose. Going the -1 route to 16" wheels, you are looking at two different width/aspect ratios and another wheel with possibly a different width and offset.

I view the markedly different turning circle figures as an indication that things are very tight and that limits are put on the max steering angle at the rack to prevent scraping.

I'd contact TireRack and see what their recommendation are on 16" wheel/tire. They seem to be pretty good at this math.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2010

Wait I'm confused. I thought you were talking about putting 60 profile 16s on a car that had 55 profile 16s. You didn't say anything about 17s. :confuse:

fibber2 · January 2010

The devil is in the details!

ateixeira · January 2010

3.3% is borderline but that rounds down to the industry-standard 3% rule.

My concern would be the front wheel well. The Forester has more room for tires. At full lock you have to cycle the suspension up and down all the way and see if the tires contact the fenders or fender liners.

If it were a Forester, my guess would be yes, but on a Legacy, I'm going to guess that you will have clearance issues.

There really isn't a lot of room for "slop" on the Legacy or Impreza. Tolerances for stuff like that is tighter than with the Forester.

nornet · January 2010

I hope this clarifies things. The Legacy in question came equipped with Yokohama 205 50 R17 tires. I called Subaru to see if a 16" snow tire could be used (I have the rims for an Outback). The Legacy (MY 08) owners manual does not mention a 16" tire. The Outback (MY 07) owners manual does. Subaru said you could use 215 55 R16 snow tires on the Legacy. I will call Tire Rack today to see if the larger 16" tire is also acceptable.. First place I looked was cars101 and couldn't find any related info. I apologize for confusing the issue by mentioning the OEM tire size. My original question was strictly about 16" tires.

I have 4 almost brand new 215 60 R16 that came from a Forester that was on lease.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2010

Okay I see....actually the 2 sizes, the 16 vs. 17, come out pretty close. When your speedo says 60 mph, you will be traveling 58.8 mph, and your 16s are .5 of an inch smaller in diameter, so the car will be lowered very so slightly.

xwesx · January 2010

If the 16" tires are already mounted on a set of rims, I would just put them on and try them! Yes, they will be a little larger than the stock tires, but as long as clearance is not a problem you are good to go.

pathtomax · January 2010

Good to see that this post is back on...well, perhaps maybe not!

I am heading to my dealership tomorrow for the 3rd time to look at this problem. I am no where NEAR technical so is there anything I can tell them to check??? At this point, I just avoid driving my car on really cold days or drive with the window cracked open. Leave it to NH weather to be warm this week so they won't be able to smell it tomorrow!!!

I am going with the TSB from the WRX forum but just want to know if there is a list of other areas I can have them look at?

Hopefully fibber2 checks here tonight!

Thanks!

fibber2 · January 2010

Hi Michael! I'm online, but I need to figure out how to post a picture to show the spot. I think I can do it from CarSpace?

fibber2 · January 2010

I'm baaaaaack.

Hey, that worked!!! Used a picture I took when the car was about 2 years old.

OK. At the far left you will see a small band clamp with a philips head screw in the red circle. That is one example of the dozen plus such clamps on little joiner rubber hoses that bridge between steel lines. Check around the area of the fuel filter, and you'll see lots of them.

To the right, you will see a greenish cover (big circle) over the front corner of the cylinder head, passengers side. Underneath that cover is a little hose that joins a steel line that originates from the drivers side, and the fuel rail for the two injectors on this side. In the front you will see a hole (red arrow). I suspect that the philips head screw of the clamp way under there was once lined up with this hole for easy access. Mine was pointed straight up, and too tight to readjust. So instead, I drilled a hole in the top of the bracket, inserted the screwdriver, and tighted it up. This was one of several spots that leaked fuel on sub 20'F weather, and the only one that I could not easily get to and tighten.

So far, so good....

sghusker · January 2010

Just bought a 2000 Legacy wagon and I need to know how to replace the lights above the rear license plate. ALSO does anyone know how to get a hold of an owners manual CHEAP(like free)??

fibber2 · January 2010

License plate lights - IIRC, there was a philips head screw on each side. Pull down on the clear lens and surrounding frame.

Owners manual is available as a .pdf from the Subaru site (as in like free!!!).

https://www.subaru.com/my-subaru/my-account/subaru-technical-information.html

nornet · January 2010

Thanks to all that responded.

sghusker · January 2010

Hey Thanks!!! I like the FREE part!

fibber2 · January 2010

I do too! You are most welcome.

ateixeira · January 2010

That's my favorite price - Free!

When salesmen ask me what I want to pay for something, I always say Free!

pathtomax · January 2010

First, thanks for your help with the pictures! I brought all the printouts to my dealer and had them read all my information. They did some research and found that the fuel lines in my Outback are "porous and need to be replaced"

So, I have an appointment and loaner car scheduled for next week. They state that this fix should be about $300. Not the best thing for me right now, but really sick of that smell!!

Thoughts?

fibber2 · January 2010

First off, you are welcome!

These systems run at 35-40 psi, and these hoses are simply fabric reinforced rubber. Eventually, they break down. Face it, our cars are getting old. And so are we! All the hoses (fuel, coolant, etc.) are likely to begin the death spiral. Checked your arteries lately?? Just kidding!

Obviously, the price seems high, but some of them are a real pain to get at. Plus, I'm sure that each of the little buggers has a part number, and costs more than they are worth, plus the clamps.

I wonder if they will also be doing the set back by the tank and the evap canister, or just the ones under the hood for that price?

Please, let us know the outcome.

pathtomax · February 2010

Well, $300 and the gas smell is GONE!!!! It was around 25 degrees tonight on my way home from the gym and no bad smell.

I don't have the write up in front of me but I think that they did all the hoses, but not sure.

Plus, I had a 2010 Forester as a loaner. Nice ride!

fibber2 · February 2010

Great to hear that!

Mine required a further 'tweak' last week. I had been smelling gas when the temps hit the high twenties. I did the drill thru the bracket thing and nailed the really loose clamp, and that pushed it down to the high teens. Last week I went around the whole system and gave every one another full turn, and am no longer smelling anything down to around 10 degrees. Next round will probably require replacing hoses as they are beginning to look quite crushed.

Funny (?) thing is when I walked into the garage (sitting at around 28' the other morning), I could smell a slight hint of fuel coming from the front of my wife's '02 Honda Odyssey! So the adventure begins anew.

xwesx · February 2010

Sometimes, Steve, I think your vehicles know you are exceptionally capable and are simply trying to test the extent of your abilities.... :P

xwesx · February 2010

Plus, I had a 2010 Forester as a loaner. Nice ride!

Yes, they are! I was spoiled last week because I had loaned my '98 Escort (my normal daily driver) to a friend who's car was destroyed in a crash. As a result, I was able to drive my '10 Forester all week long. Now that I have my Escort back, it seems awfully uncomfortable and primitive....

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

Oh, that's only because it IS uncomfortable and primitive...that probably threw you off :P

xwesx · February 2010

Hahahaha. Damn!

Most of my vehicles are that way, though, so it is just a matter of getting used to it (again). I usually only drive or ride in the Forester once or twice a week, so using it is more of a treat than anything else. I probably go 300 miles in the Escort weekly and only another 50-60 in the Forester. Occasionally, I am tempted to replace it (the Escort) with an older Subaru like yours (or an Impreza hatch), but feel highly justified in hanging onto it after a visit to the fueling station.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

Well yes you could trade your Escort for my '97 Subaru, and feel uncomfortable and primitive in a whole new way!

xwesx · February 2010

Yeah, probably. I really enjoyed my '96 Outback, though. In contemplating such a move, I am more interested in the drivetrain than the creature comforts. Having to nurse the car along at every stop (to prevent the tires from spinning) gets annoying after a few months.... Granted, it probably would not be so bad with new tires, but I made the choice to wait another winter on that.

lilengineerboy · February 2010

So just coming on the 5 year anniversary of the Legacy wagon and just came up on our 3rd set of headlamp bulbs. What's up with that? Do they try to PWM the signal or is it a direct electrical issue? Is there too much vibration in the nose? This is ridiculous.

fibber2 · February 2010

Some vehicles seem to do this just to piss you off! My OBW is on the same European Spec Philips high output bulbs I put in there 6 years ago, while our Honda Odyssey has gone thru a carton of headlamps in the same period.

I have never scoped a headlamp socket, but I really doubt that you'd see anything other than flat DC with maybe a little ripple noise. But, it might be possible that the voltage regulator on your car might be running a bit hot. A small increase in voltage can have a major impact on a tungsten filament.

fibber2 · February 2010

Wes, Life in general tests me more than enough each day! I wish the cars and other power machinery would cut me a break. Spent $150 on belts, shot bearings and that silly rubber faced friction drive wheel (and too many hours...) to get the snow blower into shape last month.

lilengineerboy · February 2010

I have never scoped a headlamp socket, but I really doubt that you'd see anything other than flat DC with maybe a little ripple noise. But, it might be possible that the voltage regulator on your car might be running a bit hot. A small increase in voltage can have a major impact on a tungsten filament.

I know there is an inrush current spike when you turn it on, but I assumed the same as you and it would go flat after that. I don't know if there is some issue with the headlamp mounting itself and vibration or inadequate cooling or something.

At least they don't flicker like in the Accord.

fibber2 · February 2010

Could be any of the above. I just haven't put the time into trying to find out why. Sometimes you see a car come down a lightly bumpy road in which the headlight patters visibly dances - sure sign of a headlamp or bulb mounting issue. But I don't see that on the Ody.

ateixeira · February 2010

I got 7 years out of the OE bulbs in my 98 Forester.

I tried hotter bulbs (Hella H4+30) and they only lasted a year, and I'm sure because I tried them in 2 different cars.

Don't go for the bulbs that claim more output, because they may run hotter and not last as long. Shop for the long life bulbs.

robr2 · February 2010

Don't go for the bulbs that claim more output, because they may run hotter and not last as long. Shop for the long life bulbs.

I concur. I knew they wouldn't last the 4 years I got out of the OE's but my experience was poor with high output bulbs. I replaced the bulbs in our Odyssey with some Sylvania Silver Stars. They lasted about 9 months and went out within days of each other. I put it the cheaper basic halogens as replacements.

lilengineerboy · February 2010

I replaced the bulbs in our Odyssey with some Sylvania Silver Stars.

Yeah, I learned that lesson with one of the sets as well.

In HS, I replaced the 55w high beams with 85w high beams on the car at the time which resulted in a melted headlamp socket and nearly killed the alternator. Good learning experience for a 17 year old. The headlights (high and low) went back to stock, and 85w Hella driving lamps were installed for the late night/early morning mountain road runs.

I go with stock bulbs for modern cars and with older vehicles (pre-some time in the 90s), I run lamps directly from the battery with a relay at the switch.

pathtomax · February 2010

Well, we did so well with the gas smell, let's try another issue. Just when the gas smell has totally disappeared, it seems my security system is acting up.

Let's see if I can explain it.

Usually, when simply shut my car off the security light DOES NOT light up. It does so only when I lock the car and the system is "ON". When working properly, it will flash SECURITY once every few seconds.

Now, once I take the key out of the ignition, the Security light flashes rapidly twice and then the same every few seconds. All the time. Even with the car is NOT locked. When I lock it, it still flashes rapidly twice and then every few seconds, again.

Is there something that needs to be reset with my security system. Oh, and it is a Genuine Subaru system.

fibber2 · February 2010

I suspect that you slipped into Valet Mode. So now even though you *think* the alarm is set, it really isn't. This can happen if you tried to set the alarm when a door was still open (press and hold the button for a few seconds, IIRC). Check the owners manual for how to get out of it (think you repeat this - door open, press and hold the lock or unlock button??).

I periodically test my system by slapping the windshield to make sure the motion/breakage sensor is working, as well as the door open function.

pathtomax · February 2010

That was it!!! Thanks again!!! OK, we are on a roll here...here are a few more questions for you

1.) What is the rust protection for our car? I am probably way over it... 2001 with 135k. I just noticed two rust "bubbles" around both of my back tire wells. They are still my Winstone color but seeing as I am in NH with our salted roads, who knows before it shows as rust. I do have a little rust showing in the rear driver's side inside doorwell.

2.) There is a "vein" forming on my dashboard. Right above the glove box where it is a little flat shelf before the dark dash comes in...(I have beige interior)...there is a vein forming that looks like it may crack and form an ugly sight on my dash. Does yours have that?

fibber2 · February 2010

Hey, not bad! Are we playing stump the old guy? OK, I'm game!

1) Forget it... IIRC, it was 5 years / 100k miles or something like that. My '02 is still clean, but I have seen a growing number of '00 & '01's with the little rust patches at the leading or trailing edge of the metal section of the rear wheel well. I suspect that the small strip of wraparound rubber trim is a double edged sword - it decreased road debris damage, but traps moisture and sand. It will probably creep into the '02's next year. Rust never sleeps!

2) No varicose veins on that pebble / grain section between the door and the dash pad on my car.

marisa44 · February 2010

My car broke down friday- when i tried to get it, the alarm starting going off with no way to turn it off. When I turned the key, nothing happened (no battery turn over etc) except that the alarms went off again. The dashboard lights would also flash on and off. Exiting the car the alarm went off yet again. I haven't been able to attempt to charge the battery because the car is parked in a very public place and I don't know how to disconnect the alarm. I was wondering if there is any easy way to disconnect the alarms- and if anyone knows what kind of issue this most likely in...
THANKS!

bigdadi118 · February 2010

Disconnect battery negative terminal for at least 30 mins to see if you can rest it. If not, then check if alram has different mode, like valet mode, service mode.

fibber2 · February 2010

Some models during this time period had an alarm reset button down on the drivers left foot kickpanel???

ic_designer · February 2010

Not sure it will work for 98 Outback model, but try it out using the instruction from 02 model.

For 02 Outback model, emergency disarming can be done the following way:

Insert the key into the ignition key switch and cycle it from the "LOCK" to the "ON" position 3 times within 5 seconds.

I tried it on my 02 LL Bean, and it works. The instruction is stated in the Owner's Manual.

Good luck

fibber2 · February 2010

ic_designer and a FIB circuit editor on the same board? ooh!

dakotadriver · February 2010

I had to replace the cat a couple of years ago and went with a cheap aftermarket product to save money. Long story short, check engine light still comes on with the cat efficiency code, just like what was happening before I replaced the original. Any suggestions on a good replacement part (and still save a little if possible)?

xwesx · February 2010

Did you replace the oxygen sensors at any time? If not, it may not be the cat....

starbird · February 2010

I've noticed that every time it rains heavily at the moment, the check engine light comes on (cruise control flashes) and after about a week it disappears.

Anyone know what's going on or should I take it to the shop?

Its a 2007 legacy wagon 2.5i special edition with 42,000 miles.

starbird · February 2010

According to the dealer its the catalytic converter which is shot. Luckily its being replaced under warranty but I'm surprised its gone bad so early on a 3 year-old car. Is this a common problem for legacy wagons?

ateixeira · February 2010

Not really. Check-engine lights are common but it's usually a sensor or loose gas cap.

Check if it's under the emissions warranty. That's usually longer than other warranties.

Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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