Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

xwesx · February 2010

I think it is premature for such a failure, but like AJ suggested, check the emissions warranty.

ic_designer · February 2010

Follow the link for the emission warranty:

http://www.epa.gov/obd/420f09048.htm#b

Here are the highlights from EPA website:

There are three specified major emission control components, covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles of vehicle use (whichever first occurs) on 1995 and newer vehicles:

* Catalytic converters.
* The electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU).
* The onboard emissions diagnostic device or computer (OBD).

Hope this will help.

sghusker · April 2010

Does anyone know of a FREE website that has a parts list for a 2000 Legacy?? If not, then does anyone know the part number for the rear tail light wiring harness with bulb sockets?

Mr_Shiftright · April 2010

Since I"m about 99% sure this is a dealer-only item, I would think just going there is the quickest way to find this out.

rebel71 · April 2010

Hello all, the car has 24,000 miles today it's at the dealer for inspection of pads and rotors, noticed pedal not holding and going to the floor.My driving is considered "severe" short trips mostly. The brake fluid is now 2 years old. I asked dealer to replace brake fluid. They tell me they don't replace brake fluid in the newer Subaru's, as it's not recommended. Something about a closed unit. I know brake fluid is not a lifetime fluid and does break down/get contaminated over time effecting the stopping ability. I told dealer to replace anyway, hopefully it doesn't hurt anything. I"m a bit perplexed.

Thank you

ateixeira · April 2010

Dealer employee is out of his mind.

Of course you bleed brake fluid. There is a certain order to follow, but it's a very routine service.

fibber2 · April 2010

Getting your brake fluid flushed out and replaced is becoming more of a point of contention with time. Early on (less than 2-3 years old) the dealer will tell you that you don't need it done because it looks clean and isn't required for a pad change. After about 6 years (up here in the rust belt, anyway), they will often refuse to do it once the bleed screws are well rusted as they often break off requiring extensive repair or caliper replacement.

I've insisted that it be done, but you can see it from their standpoint why they don't want to do it. It has to be a major source of customer complaints. If they break one off, who pays? If they get even a little air in the line, the customer returns with spongy brakes demanding it be done again. At best, it ties up two guys in the shop, and nobody wants to deal with unbillable hours. Net is that it's a service they'd probably like to avoid.

xwesx · April 2010

That's a good point - those bleeder screws can be a real PITA when even a little rust.

Brakes not holding and going to the floor? I would be shocked by this in a new(er) car, but sounds like a bad master cylinder to me. I have had this symptom in two vehicles (both now 41 years old) and each time the problem progressively worsened - the solution in each case was a new master cylinder as the internal diaphragm leaked.

That said, I have no idea how new systems are built.... do they still use master cylinders?

ateixeira · April 2010

Master and slave cylinders, with ABS between.

rebel71 · April 2010

The answer is yes brake fluid needs to be replaced at 30,000 per warranty booklet. I can understand the point about rusted bleeder screws as I do live in the northeast. I do have to say after driving many brands of vehicles which all brake differently. Brakes are not Subarus strong suit, in fact I think even new their brakes are a bit mushy for my liking. The brake fluid was changed to the tune of $175, whew that was expensive. :surprise: I never follow what the dealer recommends for service always by the Subaru book. I'm still laughing about the dealer saying Subaru doesn't recommend brake fluid change. :P It's a good thing I'm somewhat knowledgeable about cars. Thank you all who posted.

fibber2 · April 2010

Brakes are not Subaru's strong suit

I think many of us would agree. I upgraded my front rotors and pads, but still find it to be underwhelming. The car is just too heavy for the grade and size of the components.

lilengineerboy · April 2010

I think many of us would agree. I upgraded my front rotors and pads, but still find it to be underwhelming. The car is just too heavy for the grade and size of the components.

I never felt the brakes were sub-par in the '05 Legacy wagon, although at 56k, they are about done. Still scrambling on what pads to get, leaning towards the Hawk HPS pads (street based compound with more initial bite, still rotor friendly).

I was planing on using a miti-vac tool to bleed/change the brake fluid when I do the brake job, I just want to get a real repair manual to see if there is any wierdness in the procedure.

fibber2 · April 2010

I went thru a lot of nonsense when I ordered brake parts for my '02 OBW in 2006. The model was new in '00, and there were lots of brake issues. The revamped '02 was advertised with larger brakes, but my car must have been put together with leftover stock. I ordered Hawk HPS pads and PowerSlot frozen rotors from TireRack, and it took some measurements and photographs before one of their guys figured out that I really needed to reorder '01 components!

The HPS pads & new rotors are an improvement, but the brake feel is still not what I think it should be. And they are not great when stone cold. It takes a stop or two before they bite with any confidence. I'll bet our '02 Honda Odyssey could outstop my Outback.

ateixeira · April 2010

Some models do have small-ish rotors but I've looked at competitors and Subaru is probably better than average here, at least with Foresters, which are among the lightest models in their class.

xwesx · April 2010

The brakes on my Forester are downright huge compared to those on my '96 Outback. Even so, I never felt the braking was lacking on that car. Of course, that was my first modern car so I was comparing it to 30-year-old (at the time) beasts.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2010

Brakes were adequate on my '97 but when the car was fully loaded, I never felt fully confident. And my brake system was in top notch shape.

xwesx · April 2010

Did you end up selling your '97 already? If so, what did you get for it?

Mr_Shiftright · April 2010

I got $4,000 for it, which I thought was pretty good considering the miles. It was in great shape mechanically however.

xwesx · April 2010

Yeah, that sounds great. I was sorely tempted to make the trip for it, but am trying to convince myself to lay low for awhile and just stick with the old Escort.

It is tough to find an older Subaru wagon up here that is not beat to heck, let alone one that is mechanically sound. And, regardless of how ratty the car is, they always seem to sell at or above the $5K mark. Sad, really.

lilengineerboy · April 2010

I ordered Hawk HPS pads and PowerSlot frozen rotors from TireRack

That was basically my plan as well, maybe price shopping slightly.

The HPS pads & new rotors are an improvement, but the brake feel is still not what I think it should be. And they are not great when stone cold. It takes a stop or two before they bite with any confidence.

That is my biggest fear. When its snowing or very cold out, and the brakes are stone cold, I want that lady I married who drives my kids around to be able to stop effectively.

I never had an issue with the '05 brakes though, even when towing a 5x8 u-haul trailer or a small pop-up. Michigan is very flat (at least where I've been driving), and I don't think I would be as excited about dragging a trailer up and down the mtns even on highways like 101.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2010

Well I don't know if they SELL for that if they're beat up, but people can ASK that.

I had a lot of competition at $4000 where I live. Maybe in a snowy region, this would not apply. And for $6,000 I saw some really splendid ones for sale.

fibber2 · April 2010

It has become a standard part of my morning routine to ride the brake just a touch down one short stretch of road approaching the first stop sign. I trade off a touch of brake life for a warmer pad.

Frankly, if you aren't having an issue now, your system is probably 'right sized', and the upgrade should only bring extra stopping power. I'm living a compromise. My reordered '01 brake pads were pathetically small compared to the '02 pads that wouldn't fit the carrier. If I was really smart, I'd have redone the whole system with REAL '02 components.

xwesx · April 2010

That's my thought as well, but apparently there are those that are ignorant about these cars and will pay that price just to have it. I can't tell you the number of times I have not purchased an older Subaru since the demise of my '96 simply because I offered a reasonable price (knowing these cars very well), the seller rejected it, and then some bozo came along a day or two later and gobbled it up for thousands more than it was really worth.

All I can hope is that they learned their lesson. :P

Mr_Shiftright · April 2010

Well a car's market value is determined by a large number of sales, not the occasional emotional buy or the lucky strike. The price guides, and the dealer network, certainly do not in any way support a price higher than what I asked, and got. Maybe I could have squeezed another $500, but I had a new (used) car in the stall and I needed to send the Subie down the road. I'm not a dealer. I can't afford to sit on a car for a year hoping for top dollar.

xwesx · April 2010

No, for your market, I think you did great. My market is just not that way for Subaru, which is why I have never purchased one here and actually considered traveling 3500 miles to purchase yours.

elrlaw · April 2010

Starting with a cold engine I check oil & level is fine. I drive on the highway for five hours I stop for fuel & check oil level & there's no oil on dipstick. Oil pressure & temp is fine. Engine sounds fine. Next morning when engine's cool oil level is back to normal. Does anyone have an opinion on why this would occur? Thanks.

fibber2 · April 2010

On a cold start, virtually all of the oil is sitting down in the pan. Once the engine is running, the pump pushes it out to the 4 corners of a flat engine, and it takes a while to drain back down to the pan when you shut it off. Conventional vertical engines will drain back faster (thanks to this thing called gravity!). Once you let it sit it will slowly dribble back, and you will again get a proper reading on your dipstick.

Just be sure that you are really on a flat surface when making that cold measurement and that you aren't actually low on oil.

xwesx · April 2010

Agreed.

I find with the boxer engine that if the oil is actually low (more than 1 quart, which is the "low" mark on the dipstick), the engine will make lifter noise (a clack-clack-clack sound) when it is first started and, often, that noise will continue while the engine is in operation. If you hear this, it is high time to add oil!

rebel71 · April 2010

Hi all, I've never thought of this till my latest experience at the dealer. I assumed that my dealer did Roadforce balancing or dynamic balancing as they use stick-on weights for my rims which I always see on the outside part of rim. I brought car in for change over of snows to new all seasons for an alignment and balance. They had to replace one damaged rim too. I pick up the car noticed that three tires had the stick-on weights and didn't look like they put new ones on and the new rim had no weight on it, I felt around and they put a weight on the inside of the tire where you can't see it. I was unsure so I ask the advisor, he tells me they did a "static balance" it's state of the art, we don't have the machine so they took it across the way to another building that has this expensive machine. They are a multicar dealership on a very large lot. He said they put the weight on the inside so it doesn't show. I researched static balance, it's old school balancing. Dynamic balancing is what is the best because it takes into account side-to-side and up-down movement. I don't feel comfortable with this at all. This is the same dealership that said "Subaru doesn't recommend brake fluid replacement on newer Subaru's."

fibber2 · April 2010

With 'static' or 'bubble' balancing, you move weights around the edge of the rim on the outside of the tire (the side facing up) until you get the bubble centered.

Dynamic or spin balancing gets the tire up to speed and a computer monitors the wobble and calculates the weight & placement to be added to the inside and outside.

Roadforce adds a roller against the tread to monitor roundness of the tire. Remember that you can 'balance' a square assembly spinning in the air so that it spins true, but it won't drive down the road without a thumping! The Roadforce arrangement might help dynamic balancing some, but maybe more important it tells you if a rim or tire non-uniformity makes the effort a waste of time!

Weights can be rim edge clips or stick on. In any case, the best procedure is to strip off all weights and balance fresh each time. Otherwise you are adding weight to overcome a problem with prior weights. After a few such exercises, you can have a half lb of lead stuck on there! Many shops skip this step in an effort to save time and money (an extra weight to trim an imbalance is cheaper than starting fresh).

Net is your service adviser is BSing you yet again.

silphium1 · April 2010

We have two sets of winter/summer rims/tires for our 2008 Outback. Each set has it's own tpms sensors. Each spring/fall we bring the car to the dealer to change the rims/tires, they of course have to reset the tpms (don't get me started on this). The problem is, virtually every time we do this, the tpms warning light comes on on our way home from the dealer. And of course we have to take it back (another day, since it's a 30 minutes drive). They usually get it right the second time around. We now beg the service mgr. to please try to get the reset right the first time, but it never happens. We dread having to go this this farce every 6 months. Can this procedure possibly be this difficult? What could they be doing wrong to mess this up -- every time?

Mr_Shiftright · April 2010

If they've synched up the sensor IDs with the control module, it should go off (which it does when you drive away from the dealer)....so, if it's going ON again, then maybe they just put in the wrong tire pressure. You could check this, and if you correct the tire pressure, the light should go out in a certain number of driving cycles.

Also look in your owner's manual for more info. On my car, which is not a Subaru, there is a button and a procedure to shut the light off once tire pressure is corrected.

xwesx · April 2010

It may not be that simple, unfortunately. When I first installed the winter tires on my '10 Forester last Fall, which are on a separate set of rims (without TPMS stems), the warning light on the dash did not illuminate for a while - I want to say about fifteen minutes. Once it finally did, it flashed for several minutes and then held steady. After that first trip, every time I started the car the light would flash for a few minutes before holding steady for the rest of the trip - there was no delay after startup.

There must be a way for this process to be completed without the need for a dealer. If not, I sure do feel (extra) justified in not installing the silly things in my second set of rims!

rebel71 · April 2010

Car has 24,000miles and getting close to do the 30,000 service. Warranty book says to inspect/change if necessary every 15,000miles steering/suspension. To me that just means components. All other fluids brake, transmission, coolant etc. have separate listing change intervals. I emailed SOA and said it wasn't clear about the steering fluid. They just cited the warranty book. I know that all these fluids break down over time and need changing. I called my dealer and asked for a price and they said Subaru doesn't recommend changing it and then ask me why I feel it needs changing. I've always changed the fluids in my cars, why is this different? As with the brake fluid which the dealer said Subaru doesn't recommend changing. I told them to do it anyway, to me this was absurd. I know I'm not going to void my warranty if the steering fluid is replaced. Has anyone else replaced theirs or had their dealer tell them a similar thing. Thanks

fibber2 · April 2010

I'm pretty quick to say fluids should be changed, but to be perfectly honest with you, in my 35 years of car ownership, I have never changed PS (basically ATF) fluid. In that time, I have only had one failure (the pump on a '76 Ford F-150 sometime in the mid 1990's.

I'm sticking my neck out here, and I'm sure someone could say that I'm peddling bad advice. But unless you are a taxi driver, I don't think there is much abuse to the system, and thus little degradation to the fluid. If you see it go milky or grey, then I agree. Change it and look for why. If it is still a nice shade of red, skip it.

ateixeira · April 2010

It may be difficult enough that the dealer just doesn't think it's worth it.

You can use a turkey baster (DON'T TELL THE WIFE!) and suction out the old fluid, then replace as much as you can with new stuff. Save the receipt for the fluids you purchased.

chriswanson · April 2010

Recently I had the head gaskets, timing belt, tensioners and water pump replaced on my 2001 Legacy.

After getting the car back I had intermittent loss of power, felt like a momentary short. Especially happened under load.

I brought the car in and they replaced the spark plug wires, but the problem persisted.

Eventually engine completely failed, and I took it to a different shop -- the dealer, and they fixed the problem with a crank sensor.

My questions is, does shop that did the gasket/belt work owe me anything? After their work I found myself with this new problem, and I suspect that they damaged the crank sensor during that job, although this is hard to really prove. However, the fact that they gave the car back to me twice with a crank sensor problem irks me. They didnt sufficiently check car, even when I brought the car in a second time.

What says y'all? I had the car towed, rented a car for several days while dealing with this.

If compensation is due, is there a set method for negotiation? Threaten to contact their certification association (ASE)?

Thanks!

ponytrekker · April 2010

You'll need to sue them and hire and expert to testify that what they did caused your damage. Most likely a small claims thing depending on your jurisdiction. The question is whether you can do that for less than the crank sensor cost you.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2010

If you don't have the old part, then I see an obstacle to your your claim going anywhere. Furthermore, even if you did have the old part, AND it was shown to be broken or molested, you'd still have to prove that shop #1 did it, and not shop #2.

You could *try* Small Claims court, and claim that shop #1 couldn't fix the car and you were *forced* to go to shop #2----it's worth a shot I guess but don't get your hopes up. When you engage a second party on a problem (which you sometimes have to do), you sort of let party #1 off the hook.

Visiting Host

pilot1226 · April 2010

Hi all,

I'll admit this question is more about my `01 Nissan Sentra, but I imagine it could be useful for my Legacy in the future (and I have had very helpful replies on this forum previously).

Cloudy headlights on my `01 Nissan Sentra. I used the $8 TurtleWax Headlight Restoration kit with a little bit of success, but never really got all the cloudiness out.

I recently purchased Mother's Powerball 4 Headlights off Amazon (Link) and am waiting for it to arrive (should be Monday 5/3). Have heard nice things about it, will post back when finished.

Anyone used this product before? Seems like they recommend to use the polisher (powerball) first for around 10 minutes per headlight, then use the sandpaper afterwards if you "need" more.

unlucky2 · April 2010

Our 2006 Outback broke down last week and needed a new engine replacement. Quotation from the dealer was $4950 and we negotiated down to $4,500. We thought this would take at least a week for the fix - we thought a special order from Subaru was needed. To our surprise, the dealer called up back in less than 24 hours and told us the car is ready for picking up. We are worried if the dealer has actually put in a new Subaru engine for our car.

As we know nothing about mechanic stuff, how do we know the dealer has replaced with a new engine? How do we know if the new engine is a Subaru one but not something else? Please advise.

ateixeira · April 2010

I was watching one of those shows on TV and they used 2000 grit sandpaper, which is very fine.

Sounds like you have a good plan. Start less aggressive, and progress only if needed.

ateixeira · April 2010

They could clean up any block to look new, but I'd be asking about what sort of warranty they offer. Hopefully it's at least a year.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2010

One wonders what was meant by "new engine"? Was it a "new short block" (engine block w/ all internal parts but no cylinder heads or accessories), or a "new long block" (entire engine without accessories), or a "rebuild" (disassembly and re-machining or replacement of ALL parts to factory specification) or an "overhaul" (disassembly and replacement or re-machining of all DEFECTIVE parts, with old parts still usable left in).

These are all different, and often carelessly interchanged.

pilot1226 · May 2010

Thanks ateixeira...

I spent about an hour or so doing them today. The first time I did it, they were absolutely see-through except for a small horizontal bar near the bottom of the plastic that seemed to be extremely oxidized. This is the same area I had trouble with before when I tried using the TurtleWax kit I mentioned in my first post.

It seems you're right - the grit starts at 800, 1200, 1600, and 2000. They recommend using the ball first, which I did, and the sandpaper applications really couldn't be easier.

Except I suppose my arms got a little tired as I progressed through the sandpaper stages (they say to do it a little bit longer on each step), so as a result, while I have some pretty clear looking headlights right now, I most certainly need to have another go with the 1600 and 2000 grit pad in the next day or two.

All and all a good purchase, and I would recommend it. Just make sure you actually spend enough time with the higher grits otherwise you'll end up doing a second application like I'm going to have to do to get rid of some scratch marks in the plastic.

The 800 grit (coarse) pad melted the oxidation away almost instantly, so I didn't spend much time with that pad. Perhaps if you're trying something similar you might want to start with Pad #2 (1200 grit, I think).

new_outback · May 2010

Just got a Brand New car last week. This Saturday while I was driving, Check
Engine light comes on, and several other lights came on or started blinking. Called sales at dealer since the service was closed. I was told most likely it would be caused by loose gas cap. I then added more gas and tightened the cap. After several trips, short and long, the light are still on or blinking!!

I got really frustrated now! :mad: :mad: What should I do except for having the car
checked at the dealer tomorrow? To file a complaint? Anything else I can do?

hammerhead · May 2010

First, you can stop cross-posting in more than one forum. We all read most of 'em, we'll get the message.

Next: with only 270 miles underneath the car, filing a complaint is way premature. Call the dealer first thing Monday morning, explain the situation, and allow them to deal with the problem. Obviously something is amiss, and it could be something relatively easy to mitigate. Give them a chance.

Cheers!
Paul

ateixeira · May 2010

Glad to hear it seems to be working.

Thanks for sharing.

gjksn · May 2010

Hello, If the Mother's doesn't do the job, try Meguiar's Headlight Restoration Kit. My 2003 Legacy headlights were completely and badly clouded over. After about half an hour on each headlight, they looked like new again.

camp8 · May 2010

Just bought 2003 outback 130,000 miles, while driving home noticed burning oil smell coming from engine. Especially noticeable while stopped. Any idea what is causing this?

Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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