Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

summerlover97 · September 2011

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my message. Oh My Gosh!!! It's been like pulling teeth to get someone to take a look a little deeper than just what the computer readout is on the car down here. I am sure if I went to a Subaru dealership they probably would spot it, but I can't afford the diagnostics or repairs to be done there. I have insisted that it's most likely the headgasket, but my insistings have fallen on dead ears. Thank you to all of you on here who have posted to my response, and also other newer and older responses I have read that has saved me a ton of money at the repair shop. All of you are awesome! I could have gotten soaked a lot worse so many times trying to figure this out. After I get this fixed I am going to save up and take a mechanics course.

summerlover97 · September 2011

Thank you Hammerhead and Mr. Shiftright! I appreciate the help more than you will ever know.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2011

Yer welcome. The members here are great aren't they? come back and see us and your host anytime.

VISITING HOST

coll62333 · September 2011

I was wondering if some of the more car-savvy users on this forum can give me some feedback on my fiance's 2006 Subaru Legacy Sedan. This car has nearly 100K miles on it (98K to be exact) and he has NEVER had any maintenance work done on it! The car has never had any problems and has only had the usual oil changes, new brakes, new tires over the 5 years he has owned it.

I am more the proactive type (well, at least not the "neglect it for 100K mile type") and would like to take his car in to have all the maintenance neglect taken care of before something worse happens. My question is: can anyone give me an idea of which services I should have done at this point? I'm scared that the automotive shop might try to take advantage of me considering the amount of disregard that has already gone into this car. What definitely needs to be done? What should be done if recommended? What should I not get done even if recommended?

Thanks in advance for all the input!

ateixeira · September 2011

You need a baseline for all the fluids. I would do:

* gear oil or ATF
* rear diff fluid
* brake fluid

Then the spark plugs, plug wires, and maybe even the ignition coil if you have any misfires or codes.

Fuel filter, air filter, oil and filter, cabin filter, PCV valve.

Maybe even the 02 sensors.

You want to replace all the serviceable items, basically.

xwesx · September 2011

In addition to that, 105K is coming up rather quickly, which means timing belt time! I would recommend you replace the belts and hoses, as well as the coolant and thermostat (which is pretty much a necessity since you have to pull apart that system to do the timing belt).

Also, check the CV boots for cracks/splits, inspect the tie rod ends and ball joints, and ensure the struts are in good working order (or replace them).

Oh, and if it is an automatic transmission, be sure to change out the front differential's gear oil as well.

Honestly, your fella's car likely isn't suffering much yet from all that neglect, so it's a good thing the car (and he) has someone like you looking out for it. :shades:

If you end up having a shop do all this, and they replace all those basic maintenance items, you could be in for upwards of $2,000 by the end of it. Were you doing it yourself, parts would be somewhere around what, about $600-700?

bradwilson49 · September 2011

I have a 98 Legacy L with 225000 miles. The engine has made a clicking noise for about a year which seems to go away under load or when the rpm is raised. Temp & Oil level makes no difference. Now when I raise the engine speed quickly there is a clunking. Sounds like a loose flywheel, but that is hard to believe. In spite of this it has run well until the last trip to Southern Oregon.
The first thing I noticed was a miss in the engine. Then the check engine light started flashing, then after a few minutes just stays on.
After talking to a Subaru mechanic I removed the timing belt and looked at the idlers and noticed the water pump leaks. The idlers look good, except the one with teeth on it. It feels dry. Water pump seems to turn fine, but will get replaced because it leaks. The belt was not loose.
What I am concerned about is I am not sure that is where the noise is coming from, in spite of what Subaru says. I can easily change all the idlers and water pump and belt, but that would be frustrating if the problem continues.
Any one ever run in to something weird like this? The clicking sounds like it is deep in the engine.
What the heck could it be? Broken piston? Something loose?
Any help would be appreciated

Mr_Shiftright · September 2011

could be piston slap with that many miles on the engine or perhaps a loose wrist pin. In any event, the engine can run quite happily with either of these conditions but it is a sign of lots of internal wear.

Piston slap requires a trained ear but the way to test for a loose wrist pin (the pin that attaches the piston to the connecting rod) is to pull off each plug wire with the engine idlling (using insulated pliers of course)..if the noise suddenly doubles in frequency (from "click" to "click-click") then that's a loose pin.

bradwilson49 · September 2011

I would say piston slap is not likely because it does not seem to change as the engine warms up. However I had not thought of a loose wrist pin. That would actually make sense. I guess the thing to do is replace the idlers, water pump and timing belt, then try removing the wires one at a time and see if that is it.
There is that clunking when I rev the engine from an idle. Any ideas on that?

Thanks for your reply.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2011

This is a bit of a long shot but I've seen it (heard it) before -- have you ever checked for either a loose crankshaft pulley bolt or a worn crankshaft pulley keyway?

Also, I once had a porsche 928 make a very ominous knocking sound and it turns out the AC compressor was loose!

Wrist pin noises are not too "heavy" a sound. If you are in the San Francisco area, I an send you to a great Subaru shop.

bradwilson49 · September 2011

The clunking is only when I rev it up quickly from an idle. Weird.
I am pretty sure the clicking is another problem of its own. Since the timing belt is off I took another look at the idlers. The one at the bottom with teeth definitely does not sound right. It turn just fine but sounds dry and I can barely hear a clicking noise. I wonder if putting a load on would make the clicking! Also the idler the tensioner pushes against does not sound right either. Any way I will change them all.
When I got the car about 80K ago it was leaking oil out of both cams and the front crank seal. So I took it all apart and discovered that at one time the pulley had come loose so some idiot drilled a hole through the timing belt pulley and crank and pressed in a pin. It took a grinder to get it off. I filled in the key area with JB weld and put it all back together ( using blue lock tight) and the problem has not reoccurred. The pulley is still quite tight.
When I put it back together I used idlers from Rock Auto. According to Subaru that is not a good idea. He said they often fail early. Maybe he is right.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2011

Subarus do not seem to like aftermarket parts. I know I had trouble using Japanese CV joints. I had to get some OEMs out of a wrecking yard.

samiam62 · October 2011

We've been having overheating issues with our 99 Subaru Legacy Outback. The garage that has it has diagnosed a blown head gasket and has given us the following quotes:

replace motor with used motor: $4200
replace head gasket only: $3400
replace motor with reblt moto: $5500

I consulted another mechanic who has worked on the car before and he said he wouldn't touch it for any price because of high miles (over 250K) and his experiences of installing rebuilt motors only to have them blow again fairly quickly.

So given the cost of repairs, the value of the car at this point, and the cost of repairs, are we done with this vehicle?

Thanks for any insight that comes from more experience...

sam

ateixeira · October 2011

I guess it really depends on the condition of the rest of the car, and how attached you are to it.

I would think that at 250k miles it's probably tired, and just about every wear-and-tear item is worn out. I'm talking all the bushings, hoses, shocks, etc.

It may be time to retire her, unless she's in unusually good shape or you have other attachments to it for some reason (first new car?).

xwesx · October 2011

As for the price quote on the head gasket replacement, I'd be looking at another shop. $3,400 for head gaskets? That's off the deep end. Knock $1,000 off of that and you're getting into the ballpark. :sick:

ateixeira · October 2011

True...didn't someone get 'em done for $600 per side? May depend on what else they do while they're in there.

xwesx · October 2011

Yes, but that was on the other extreme end of the spectrum.

If you have a shop replace both gaskets, plus the timing belt, pulleys, water pump, and other misc. bits and pieces (drive belts, seals, etc), you should be looking at $2,200 to $2,400. Tops. The parts I listed might run up to $700 of that total.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2011

the prices quoted are outrageous IMO. That's one shop I'd cross off my list.

But in ANY event---this whole decision depends on what the rest of the car is like. If you really haven't done much to it otherwise, it's probably time to let it go. At 250K, most cars are pretty worn out. yes, yes, people do drive them at 250K++ and brag about it, but a car like that can self-destruct at any moment with some large component catastrophe.

I agree though...putting in ANOTHER high mileage 2.5L engine that hasn't had head gasket replacements is just asking for trouble.

Now then...if....IF....you could find a low miles Subaru 2.5L engine (say 70K miles or so) and if....IF....you've done a lot of replacement work on your car, and if....IF...the body and interior are very nice.....then you might consider it.

flytyer37 · October 2011

I replaced the relay under the hood, same problem. Still won't go off. I drive in the country alot, so just keeping them off is an issue for me (I really like to be seen quickly by the on-coming grain trucks as I crest a hill). Any further ideas on where to check?

xwesx · October 2011

I don't recall your original message on the topic. What is the car?

pathtomax · October 2011

I have what may be a common issue with my 2008 Outback 3.0R LL Bean 39,000 miles but wanted to confirm with everyone here before I bring it back to the dealership.

I have noticed a vibration/shudder under low acceleration. This is mostly in the 30-40 mph and 1500-2000 rpm range. The entire car shakes (not the steering wheel).
From what I have found- it is the Torque Converter that needs to be replaced.: Thoughts?
---------------------

Tech bulletin 16-74-09.. seems to be a wider spread problem than I first thought with other Subie models involved. All done on my car and seems to be running great, so far.

5AT Torque Converter Shudder/Vibration. Bulletin Description: If you encounter a vehicle that has a shudder/vibration which could be felt in 3rd, 4th and 5th gear during slight acceleration, it may be caused by the transmission torque converter during lockup operation. A countermeasure was made to the final machining process of the sliding surface for the lock up clutch to provide more stabilization and eliminate the shudder/vibration.
----------------------

Around the same time I have noticed that the usually smooth-shifting H6 shifts harder and also feels like it is skipping a bit when accelerating on the highway. Kind of like it is chugging along. Good power still though. Would this be the torque converter too??

Thanks!

flytyer37 · October 2011

2007 Outback Legacy. If the relay is out, they go off (as they should), however, with the relay in (old or new relay), they stay on even after the car is off. Interestingly enought, the light on the dash for the DLR will come on without the relay in.

xwesx · October 2011

Odd. What about the standard (low beam) lights? If you have those on, do they turn off with the car as they should (if the selector is on, the lights will turn on as soon as you insert your key and off as soon as you remove it)? If so, perhaps removal of the relay combined with keeping (and leaving) the light selector switch fully "on" is the best short-term solution.

Aside from that, it sounds like your wiring is grounded somewhere (prior to the relay) and causing it to get power when it should not.

Oh, another option may be to pull the emergency brake one click. That should turn the DRLs off, as the car thinks it is parked. I use that trick on mine when I'm trying to be sneaky and don't want any vehicle lights.

sammyt_2 · November 2011

Sorry this isn't an answer to the thread but a similar problem.

I also own a 2006 Subaru Outback (has 70K) and have had no problems with it until about a week ago when it stalled out and now I have the "er HC" showing up on the odometer. I have tried to fix it with all the recommended ways but nothing seems to work and I am worried that my ECM is fried and I have to replace it (when I hook up an OBD2 I just get a connection error) Which would be no problem to find one in a junk yard for a cheap price, but when i called the dealership to see which models and years of subaru would work i was told the ECM is VIN specific and can't be reprogrammed once set. I was wondering if anyone had replaced the ECM in their vehicle with a used one, or if I do need to get a new one?

Any help would be great.

sammyt_2 · November 2011

Sorry this isn't an answer to the thread but a similar problem.

I also own a 2006 Subaru Outback (has 70K) and have had no problems with it until about a week ago when it stalled out and now I have the "er HC" showing up on the odometer. I have tried to fix it with all the recommended ways but nothing seems to work and I am worried that my ECM is fried and I have to replace it (when I hook up an OBD2 I just get a connection error) Which would be no problem to find one in a junk yard for a cheap price, but when i called the dealership to see which models and years of subaru would work i was told the ECM is VIN specific and can't be reprogrammed once set. I was wondering if anyone had replaced the ECM in their vehicle with a used one, or if I do need to get a new one?

Any help would be great.

kempy · November 2011

My daughter took her car in because it was overheating and coolant disappearing, not leaking. They replaced the radiator and as I guessed, that did not solve the problem. So now they need to go into a dealer, my ? Is would it be cheaper to do a rebuild or after market replacement engine or a new cylinder head. The current engine has 120000 miles, the rest of the car is in good condition.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2011

you don't need an engine, you need new cylinder head gaskets most likely. This is a very typical problem for the 2.5 Subaru engine, and the miles you posted are right on schedule for these gaskets to leak. But the engine will have to come out (easiest way to do it), heads off and resurfaced or at least checked, and the improved head gaskets installed. It's good that the radiator was done, as you wouldn't want to replace head gaskets and leave an old radiator in there. You're probably looking at $1500 at least here.

kempy · November 2011

Thanks for your response.

csmilich · December 2011

Trade it in before your engine light comes on and the dealer tells you it's a misfire thats causing it to run like crap. My 2006 Outback has been running bad for a month, at first the dealer said they could find nothing wrong with it. Than the engine light came back on and they said it's a misfire in a cylinder. It's got new plugs in it, so that makes zero sense since it was not misfiring 4 months ago with the same plugs. I have seen alot of posts on sites of many people having the same problem with the misfires including on 2010 and 2011 cars. If I was you I'd trade it before the engine light comes on, because once it does, and noone can find the cause, you will not beable to get rid of it. Maybe your car is an exception to this and you'll have no problems, but you need to be warned in case it happens. Good luck, and yes get maintenance done on everything. Plugs, coils, belts, radiator & trabsmission flush, anything you can think of and hope it works out.

surrfurtom · January 2012

In vacuuming out my two year old 2010 Outback Limited 24K mi I noticed that the black factory driver side floor mat is fraying seriously in several spots, with the worst being around the outer grommet at the rear that secures it.

I don't always pull the mats out when vacuuming it, but I did this time and noticed the deterioration on both top and underside. It still seems like a new car to me and didn't expect to see this.

I've had Subarus since 87 and have never had the factory floor mats show wear like this one even at 90K. Is this covered under the 3/36 warranty?

Yeah I know this isn't as serious as most stuff but they probably want an arm and leg for replacements. Has anyone else noticed this or is this a fluke on mine? Thanks.

ateixeira · January 2012

I haven't observed that in any of our 3 Subarus, but...

If you're up for it, get a Chase Subaru credit card, and you can earn 3% cash back on everything, up to $500 a year. Then use the Subaru Bucks to buy accessories, pay for service, tires, and yes, even new floor mats.

I've paid for body damage (and got cash from the other guy's insurance company - ka-ching!), accessories, a Subaru Gold warranty, you name it. They come in $100 increments and the register at the dealer accepts them like cash.

xwesx · January 2012

I don't use the stock mats in mine, opting instead for WeatherTech floor liners. My mats still look like new... literally!

I'll have to take a look at my friend's 2010, though, since he uses the stock carpeted mats.

surrfurtom · January 2012

Thanks. I agree the Subaru card is a good deal. I've used it and have been accumulating them for the gold extended warranty. I'm close to $1000 now. The only downside is you must use them in only $100 increments, so to use them efficient you need to spend $100 min.

I like WeatherTech products too. Made in USA.

I'm going to show this mat to the dealer.

xwesx · January 2012

I'm going to show this mat to the dealer.

That sounds like a good plan, especially if there is damage/wear on the bottom of the mat. That seems odd to me. Even the mats in my 1998 Escort, with 155,000 miles and 14 years on them, look perfectly new on the bottom. The tops are a different story....

ateixeira · January 2012

You can pay for the warranty and if you have, say, $25 left, pay for an oil change or something like that. Or buy a Subaru T-shirt.

frenchguy007 · January 2012

I have a six cylinder Legacy with Climate Control. After a year and a half I still cannot figure out what the difference is between "full auto" and "auto" on the climate control. Can someone explain what the difference is? :confuse:

surrfurtom · January 2012

As I recollect "full auto" controls everything including the fan speed. "Auto only" is temp control only and you manually set fan speed. If you are on "full auto" and manually change fan speed it then reverts to auto only. Hope this makes sense.

gr26 · January 2012

Also, I think if you manually turn off the AC it will just change to Auto. I much prefer manual controls over these automatic ones.

surrfurtom · January 2012

As an FYI, Subaru and the dealer took good care of the mat problem and replaced everything. Thanks for the various replies.

angitherias · January 2012

I currently drive a '97 legacy outback 2.5. My vehicle stays outside year round, currently we are experiencing sub-zero temperatures in our area from -20C to -40C. My rear drivers door will either be locked, can cannot unlock from the inside (child safety is "off") or stuck unlocked position. When temps are closer to normal, I don't have a problem. How can I fix this?

mmeacham · February 2012

I have a 2005 Subaru Outback LL Bean edition. Last week I started hearing a "clunk". It's not rhythmic and it went away as the car warmed up. It was a lot worse this morning. It seems to be coming from the base of the steering column or just under the dashboard on the driver's side. Any ideas?

fibber2 · February 2012

Yep, replaced at 15k & 62k miles under warranty. 93k and it's dripping again. Smelled it on the way home tonight, and a quick look behind cyl #4 confirmed it. I have another bottle of Holts (Subi magic elixir) on hand, but I guess I'll open another case with SOA on the off chance that they'll do another courtesy repair as they claimed each time that the heads & deck were flat and I'd NEVER have this happen again.

It's a real shame given that the OBW has been pretty much bulletproof otherwise. Washed and waxed a few weeks back, and rubber door/window seals treated only yesterday.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2012

What a drag! Who did the work? This really shouldn't happen 2X, much less 3X---the improved head gaskets and magic juice should fix 'em.

fibber2 · February 2012

Two different dealerships. Everything went well the first time, but the car was under 2yrs old, and everything was supple and pliable. After the last round (three yrs ago) I had all sorts of fuel leaks and broken stuff to deal with for months after as things had gone hard & brittle and it was a cold spell in Jan. Not looking forward to dealing with it again.

mmeacham · February 2012

It didn't do it at all when I left work yesterday afternoon but did it again last night and this morning on the way to work. Now I'm thinking the noise is coming from the dash and not the steering column but you can feel the clunk a bit in the steering wheel. Temperature issue?

ateixeira · February 2012

Sorry to hear that. Let the dealer know the Subaru Crew on-line community will follow your case until the resolution.

xwesx · February 2012

And we do not forget. Muahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha!

ateixeira · February 2012

fibber2 · February 2012

Last night after she cooled I withdrew a few ounces of coolant to make some room, and added the blue bottle of magic potion. The Subaru brand of coolant was still a nice clean blue and oil free, and my Mobil 1 looks fine, so it doesn't look like we have an internal issue yet - just an external leak.

I'm going to drive it for a few days to see what happens, but I'll probably open a case just so that the situation is on record. It would be nice to think that they would come to my rescue given the car's history if the patch doesn't work.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2012

Well that's generally what happens to the 2.5L headgaskets--it's an external leak more often than internal.

Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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