Lexus SC 430

drodavis · April 2003

Hello:
I'm new to this forum. I just bought a new deep blue SC 430 after looking at a couple of new and used ones. I also own a 1995 deep blue BMW 325 convertible. I've had to put a lot of money into that car over the years to keep the soft top mechanism working, so I was wondering if anyone has put out the dough for the extended warranty?
Thanks,
Orrin Davis

ron36330 · April 2003

Guys, you are right. I'm surprised there haven't been more posts to this board, as I find the SC 430 an amazing vehicle.
I purchased my 03 in January, so with my limited experience I will give you my opinions of ownership.
First of all I would also recommend you check clublexus.com. There is some excellent advice and opinions on ownership of the SC 430 on those boards.
mmob: You are right about the price. I paid 60K even for an 03 w/spoiler,run-flats,gold package, trunk mat, wheel locks and cargo net.
As for run-flats, I personally have no problem with them, although they do ride hard over rr tracks and similar surfaces. Otherwise on normal roads I have no complaints. However it has been said that the installation of Michelin Pilot Sports significantly improves the ride and handling.
You are absolutely right about the increase of tire pressure. There is a good discussion about that on the Club Lexus boards. Actually it is 38 psi when there is 20 degree temperature between the high and low each day for the season. The pressure then changes as the hi-lo ambient becomes less.
drodavis: Reference extended warranty. Yes, I bought one. Not because of the Lexus drivetrain, which I know will never fail, witness another owner the LS board with 300K on his and still going strong. But, rather because of the technical gadgetry. There are 12 motors in the top alone, the nav system,stereo, seat,steering and window adjustments. To say nothing of 18 separate computers on-board. So I paid 1.8K for a 7yr/100K "0" deductible warranty. Worth it? I don't know but I have piece of mind that everything will be covered for the next 7 yrs. If you don't plan to keep the car that long, then I wouldn't bother.
As for the car itself, it has been great. "0" problems, nothing wrong what-so-ever. Of course I haven't driven the car much, but as the weather improves I will be glad to post further reports on my experiences.
Hope this helps, and congratulations on your purchase, I know you will be very satisfied.
Ron

drodavis · April 2003

Ron:
thanks for the reply.
My major concern is : after looking at the booklet that discusses what is covered ( a gazillion things on the 'platinum' plan) and what is not covered (everything that you expect will need service....oil, tires, wipers batteries, etc.)
HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT ALL THOSE MOTORS AND COMPUTERS ARE REALLY COVERED BY THE PLAN??

Thanks,
drodavis ( Orrin)

ron36330 · April 2003

drodavis;
True "consumables" are NOT covered. This is common for all extended warranties. However all mechanical and electrical components are covered. Further I discussed this with the service manager at my dealership. He has been service manager for 30 years (20 years Toyota and 10 years Lexus) and I have found him very credible. He stated that should anything go wrong during the warranty period it will be fixed for "0" cost. I specifically asked about the motors and computers and he assured me it was all covered.
To date I have not had an opportunity to put the warranty to the test but I have confidence in both Lexus and and the service manager at my dealership.
Ron

tronco1 · April 2003

I'm selling my 2001 GS 430 which I love. Especially the power!! But I'm unsure if I should get the sc430 for the looks or the more practical GX470? Any comments?? PLease..

vetlex · April 2003

Just found my sc430 a week ago. It is a 2002 black/saddle int with tinted windows and 20 inch
rims. This is one FINE looking car. The deal was
killer $45k with 30k miles including excellent and expensive Momo rims and the orig set of run flats on 18 inch rims.

I was seriously considering a new porsche boxster.I test drove both and no doubt the porsche is a true sportcar and easily much more athletic! However given Lexus reliability, MORE power and FAR more luxury (dollar for dollar) I think my decision was sound.
I hate the thought of spending 40-50K and having reliability and dealer issues (porsche does not always fare well here).

Much as I hate it.....I now have to find a home for our Miata.......a car we have loved dearly.

I'll post my sc430 impressions as they hit me

D

vetlex · April 2003

My opinion.........buy the sc430 (which you know you want!) used and buy a second new minivan or small suv for chores. I have a suburban for bussiness and heavy errands!

D

venturaweston · April 2003

sounds like you scored BIG - great deal on that! those momo rims do look nice. make sure the car had the bushings updated at some point depending on when in 2002 it was manufactured. and let us know where we can see photos!

tronco1 · April 2003

I just bought a new 2003 SC430. I pick it up on Monday. Since I live in Guam. we can't get the DVD Navigational package. I also did not get the run flat tires. But I picked it up for 53K. Is that a good deal?

ron36330 · April 2003

I know you will enjoy your SC. It's a great car and will be trouble free. Yes you did get a good deal. I paid 60K for a stateside version,ie,NAV,RF's,spoiler,gold pkg, wheel locks, cargo net. You also did a good thing by not getting the RF's. Wish I would have gotten the regular tires-now I have to change over. But that aside, I am sure you will enjoy the car, especially top down and tunes playing.
ENJOY
Ron

vetlex · April 2003

Thanks for the tips. I read all the comments and advise on this and other sites. Apparrenty the two main recurring problems with this car were the bushings and the amp/volume glitch.......The prev owner was very well healed and babied this car........consequently he gave me a full record and receipts on the car and both the bushings and the amp have been replaced. He also added the "gold" package and $4000 momo rims. I"ll post a picture soon.

The previous owner had a 2003 SL500 next to this car in his garage (overlooking a 180 degree view of the pacific ocean!). While the mercedes may be a better driver on some levels.......I'll take the sc430 for it's better reliability, better looks (just my opinion) and $40,000 savings. I think the sc430 easily justifies it's considerable cost.

caramo · April 2003

<<consequently he gave me a full record and receipts on the car >>

I did that once. Traded in a 3000GT Spyder in 99, and got a call from the new owner, asking if I had all that stuff. I did, and didn't really mind sending it to him. . . I was pleased to see that my old baby found a good home.

vetlex · April 2003

When I first test drove this car I did feel it was a bit heavy (it is) and leaned a bit more than I'd like. This in comparison to a bmw 330,
a porsche boxster (test drives) and to our 1999 miata. I bought it anyway based on comfort, luxuries and amenities galore and great ability to accellerate. I am also a lexus fan after my past experience with a 1993 ls400.
We just took our first lengthy drive to Big bear, CA. This car's reflexes are VERY reassuring. Taking the mountain curves fast was effortless and the brakes stop swiftly even on steep grades.
While the aural engine and exhaust sounds are muted, I definitely felt like I was in a superior sportcraft. Beating our best time down the mountain was further evidence that this car can be driven FAST and with confidence.
I imagine the 20" pirrelli's on this car improve handling.
Hope to hit the beaches next weekend with more top down experiences.

D

vetlex · April 2003

In the process of selling our Miata and a honda motorcycle on recycler.com (southern california)............noticed an ad for a "2002 sc430 w/49,000 miles in exc. condition" and asking only $42000. A bit higher milage (warr ends at 50K) but poss worth a look for sc430 aspirants.

KThomp100 · May 2003

This forum is far too slow for as many car enthusiasts who visit Edmunds. I posted this on another forum but what do you think would be some good new colors for the 04 SC. I think they have had the same ones since the car came out and my suggestion(s) would be to do the following:

Add a bright blue color similar to the Spectra Blue Mica color formerly used on the GS and IS models.

Add a black cherry type color or use the existing one that the LS has.

How about a root beer bottle brownish/black metallic color. I am not a fan of browns but if this color was done right it would make this car look even more gorgeous than it is.

Charcoal grey? That too would look great.

Anyway, anybody have any suggestions please post and if there are any dealers lurking on here please let us know what colors will be available on the 04 SC

carnaught · May 2003

.....a candy apple red.

bigorange30 · May 2003

than the Absolutely Red it already comes in. Exact same color IMO.

carnaught · May 2003

By candy apple, I mean less orange and more cherry and metallic than the "absolutely red".

bigorange30 · May 2003

http://community.webshots.com/photo/13283603/13284120TKQBgcVnlw

If you tweak it a little less orange, it will be too close to the same color to carry them both.

lngtonge18 · May 2003

I think he means replace the current bright fire engine red with a darker richer looking candy apple red. The current red is too bright. I think a nice burgundy/cranberry red would look gorgeous on this car.

alphamale · May 2003

I hear so many differing reports on it's hanling vs ride quality.
  With what vehicle would you compare the SC's ride to?
  How would you judge it's ride/handling balance? More ride?
  Does it need a "L-Tuned" version?
  Factory "Performance" tires?
  What improvements would you make to it?
  Ever test drive it vs. the Benz SL?

  I, personally, think it is 2 SWEET!! Would like a TRUE "Sport" pkg on it, though.

vetlex · May 2003

There are those who would like to make the case that the sc is a mersedes clk430 competitor based I suppose on price, convertible and a powerful v8. I think road and track made this comp and the mercedes won out. In my opinion the high levels of luxury (nav, mark levinson stereo, retractable hard top, and one of THE MOST luxurious and high quality interiors make it obvious to me that this cars intended target was
the SL500. No doubt the Lexus would win or tie the value, luxury, power and refinement categories. The SL would probably be a superior
handler with a more sporting personality. But I ask again........given the similarity of these two cars in features, mission, prestige and even handling and power.............does the mercedes justify $40,000 more?????

But make no mistake ....This car would benefit greatly from an L-tuned suspension package that
could make this car a hands down winner.

Give Lexus some credit for taking great risk with the styling of this car ......like it or not..the car DOES have personality and is a departure from the more conservative lines found on previous Lexus cars!

D

4381077 · May 2003

When the soft top CLK hits the market there will be no comparison. The new CLK 500 coupe is much faster than the SC, and handles and rides far better as well. I'm a CLK owner and all I could say while driving the new one was, "this is the best car Lexus have ever made". What Lexus set out to do with the SC MB has accomplished..a soft lexus-like ride, but with good handling and really fast. When the soft top hits the market I think the sc crowd will flock to their MB dealer. They'll be driving a far less reliable car than the SC and they have to live with a soft top, but they'll have neck snapping speed, great handling and a much more comfortable ride than Lexus offers. Although beauty is in the eye of the beholders I suspect about 99% of the beholders will find the CLK far prettier than the SC. Forget comparing the SC to the SL. The Sl's $30 to $40 k more money but it's in a completely different league. The SC's probably a better value than the Sl, but the Camry is a better value than the SC or the SL.

vetlex · May 2003

That you LOVE your Mercedes is Great!

But Lexus buyers will not head en mass to any MB showroom for the obvious reasons..............MB average reliability (or worse!) and much more often poor dealer satisfaction (certainly less than Lexus!). It is those attributes which draws buyers into Lexus showrooms!!

second............You would be "Lucky" to find greater than 50% of responses (not 99%) who prefer the styling of the CLK to the SC430. Many (if not most) LOVE the daring style of this Lexus!

Finally add up the price of a LOaded CLK500 (with best sound system and GPS, xenon etc) and compared to an always loaded sc430 (HARDTOP equal to a 100,000 SL430!!!!) and let all decide which car they prefer.

The sc430 is plenty sporting and plenty fast..........Lexus no doubt put Luxury and quality first! I will concede a few points to the car being "less connected" in the sporting sense.............but it is stll a blast to drive in the twisties and FAST with little comprimise.

Again, This car is 90% as pleasing (for argument sake!) in every way to an SL .....................for $40,000 less!

D

habitat1 · May 2003

Although the SC430 will never find it's way into my garage, I think I can appreciate it for what it is: a finely made automobile with exceptional fit and finish and a reliability factor several rungs up the ladder from the current crop of Mercedes offerings.

The CLK500 convertible would come somewhat closer to my preferences for tighter handling and driving dynamics, but "4381077" make no mistake about it, it's far, far inferior to an M3 6-speed convertible in every objective performance measure, as well as my personal "fun to drive" evaluation. So I don't think it's particularly fair to attack the SC430 on performance when the CLK500 is hardly the class leader. Give me a reliable CLK55 with a 6-speed and I may change my tune.

kamily1 · May 2003

I am trying to help my father with his 'dream retirement vehicle.' He is ready to buy and I now grow fatigued from researching the web. Is $58,5K for a brand new version the very best price I should expect? I was recently introduced to a Volume Selling guy who offered this surprising quote. Have you heard anything better club members? Of course we are considering a few preowned versions although if to secure low mileage, pricing becomes very similar. Well, after comparing resale value, depreciation, maintenance cost and more vitals, it seems our buying this car brand new and for $58,5K or less is justifiable. Please, violate no forum rules with your advice, forward your comments to me at kfmly4@AOL.com if necessary. T.S. and anxious father.

merc1 · May 2003

While you keep pointing out that the SC430 has a better sound system and a better Nav system why don't you point out any of it's weaknesses.

The SC430 doesn't have a prayer of competing with the SL500. The SL500 has the technology, looks and performance that shame the SC430. The SC430 didn't even get invited to compete in the SL500's class in a recent comparo, that in itself should tell you something. The SC430 couldn't even beat the CLK430 Cabrio, so you can totally forget about it competing with the SL500. It is a better value than the SL, well if you value getting a folding hardtop and a better sound/nav system for less, then yes. If you value getting a better looking, handling, more technically advanced car, then no the SC isn't a better value. The SC430 can't begin to match the safety engineering of the SL either. Nor does it's body structure come close in rigidity. You're trying to pass off Buick-like dynamics as being "refinement" like the SL500 some rough and crude car. Where are you getting a 40K difference from? I see a 25K difference in their base prices, and about 30K with they way a SL500 is typically optioned. You've got to realize that the rules are slightly different in the GT category. A sound system and nav system don't mean much when a the car isn't as much fun to drive. The SC430 is a blast to drive in the twisties? Compared to what???

Is the SL worth it's price premium (25-30K, not 40K) over the SC430? The market says yes. Amazingly the SL sells at nearly the same rate as the much cheaper SC430. If Cadillac wasn't hampered by a bad image/quality perception, the SC430 would have another car to worry about in the XLR. It sits right between the SC and SL, pricewise. Easily a superior car in many areas compared to the SC430, quality wise we don't know yet, but I doubt it will match the SC there. The Jaguar and Maserati don't have to compete with Lexus on nav and stereo systems, as they pack a 390hp wallop.

M

habitat1 · May 2003

Once again, I find myself in a completely alien position of defending a car that I would never personally own.

You are correct - the SL500 is superior to the SC430 in virtually every measure of performance. But that's probably not what most SC430 buyers have as their highest priority. And the SL500 is hardly the epitome of sports car like driving dynamics. It's a two ton, two seat behemoth that uses every Mercedes electronic trick in the book to try to offset it's gross weight for decent handling. And, in fairness, they've done an admirable job. Let's just hope all those electronics and active suspension gizmos have a higher reliability factor than 90% of Mercedes other electronics. Personally, I'd prefer a "performance" car designed for performance from the ground up (i.e. BMW "M", Porsche), not one that has a lot of technological "fixes".

I mention all this as second hand smoke that is being blown by my neighbor. He traded his 2001 E55 for a 2003 E500 a few months ago and has been plagued with problems. Part of his trade deal included getting a SL500 this spring. Now, after having his E500 back to the dealership no less than 6 times in 3 months, he's reconsidering - and considering the SC430. If not for his wife's preferences, he would be getting a 911 6-speed Cabriolet instead of either the SL or SC.

P.S. He also happens to own a Honda S2000 as his little weekend fun car. At $32k he would rate it's "fun to drive" and overall performance at about triple that of the $90k SL500. Of course, it doesn't have as good of a stereo or navigation system. But, in 15 months and 15k miles, it's only been back to the dealership for a couple of oil changes. For that, he is very grateful right now.

merc1 · May 2003

I think we've had this conversation before and I really don't see the point of it. You keep saying the SL500 is so heavy yet not a one of these cars are lightweight as all of them are 3800lbs or more. Is the 4024lb XKR a "behemoth" too? Only the XLR is lighter. Then you knock MB for knowing how to make such a heavy car perform like a much lighter one. If a SC430 buyer isn't interested in performance then why debate the SC430 and SL500 at all? Nor is the SL superior to the SC based soley on performance either.

A Mercedes is not supposed to be a Porsche, nor is it trying to be one, why is that so hard for up to accept? If you prefer a Porsche or M Series BMW thats fine, but neither one of these compete in the SL, SC, XK8/R, XLR, M Spyder class, so the SL isn't and wasn't designed to compete with a M3 or 911. Thats like me expecting the 760Li to handle the same as CLK55 AMG. What your suggesting makes no sense. Like Mercedes actually built the SL and then discovered it was too heavy and then decided to "fix" it by adding ABC to it. Thats ridiculous.
It's a luxury roadster with a dose of performance. It's not a 911.....

M

habitat1 · May 2003

Look, I'm just responding to your rather brazen comment that "The SC430 doesn't have a prayer of competing with the SL500". You are the one seeming to suggest the SL500 is some type of high performace vehicle, not me.

I would simply point out that for the luxury minded buyer, the "Buick-like" ride of the SC430 might not be as offensive as the "Buick-like" reliability of the recent crop of new Mercedes models, SL included from what I've heard from my dealer.

I myself would probably put up with less than Lexus class standard reliability for an SL55 with a 6-speed transmission. But not for a base automatic SL500. For the record, I've owned three Mercedes, including an early AMG (300SEL6.3) and they were all relatively reliable for their day. I hope Mercedes management gets the message that my neighbor and many others are sending. I'd consider replacing our SUV with a E500 4-matic Wagon next fall if I wasn't afraid I'd be spending way too much time at the dealership.

merc1 · May 2003

Thats just it, the SL500 is of higher performance compared to the SC430, nobody was talking about Porsche and BMW in the first place. Both of which don't even compete in this class. If Buick like ride/handling qualities are important to a SC buyer then again, why compare the SC to the SL at all? The reliability issue has been discussed to a point of being tired at this point. My dealer says this, my neighbor says that, a co-worker had this to happen.....everyone has heard all that before, and you can find the same stories for ANY car. The Japanese do have a definite edge in reliability, but they're not as perfect as some like to believe. That also can been seen here on these very boards.

M

gekko2 · May 2003

http://www.jdpower.com/presspass/pr/images/2003028bfull.gif

http://www.jdpa.com/studies_jdpower/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=692&- amp;CatID=1

sphinx99 · May 2003

This post is directed directly at current SC430 owners:

1. Was the SL500 financially affordable to you?

2. Was it considered against the SC430 or were you not interested in it to begin with?

I'd be curious to know. It's my suspicion that the majority of SC430 owners probably could swing the purchase of a SL500 with a little stretching but were largely uninterested in the SL. I could be wrong. I'd be interested to know what SC430 owners cross-shopped their choice against. For all we know, the SC doesn't get cross-shopped against any of the luxury convertibles being discussed. It wouldn't surprise me--the SC430 fills a pretty unique niche.

vetlex · May 2003

I am probably not a "clasic" car shopper but......

My wife drives our Miata and always prefers smaller cars............we started out thinking of
practical choices that are fun to drive......ie BMW 3 series and G35......then fell in love with the thrill of a porsche boxster.....but after looking at a private party used 2002 sc430 decides that the car had all the thrills. a bit
more practical than the Miata (or porsche) and
no more $$$ than the other cars (though it is used). I ended up buying my second Lexus because
I TRUST that the car will remain solid for many years and that the dealers will handle any problems sholuld they occur. Not that Mercedes cars are any less in terms of Luxury and performance. But the cars lesser reliability and arrogant dealer reputation (for a more costly car!) has always made not want to fork out extra dough. I , personally would feel quite screwed if I spent 90 grand for an SL and had to take it to the dealer for serious repairs in the first year.

From what I've read......porsche is a notch or two worse in this regard.

Thus , if Lexus makes a reasonably competitive product to the Germans......I do consider it first!

D

habitat1 · May 2003

There is a parrallel "downscale" debate to yours going on over at the Acura TL-S board. It is essentially made up of TL-S lovers (i.e. the merc1 alter egos) that will go to their grave claiming the TL-S is better than anything out there and one should pay no attention to the numerous reports of transmission failures that are plagueing the model. The other group of posters are essentially made up of those (epn2 alter egos) that would claim that the TL-S horrific reliability problems outwiegh any "performance" advantages the car has over it's competition.

At the risk of being criticized for adding to anecdotal evidence, we too have been considering replacing our Isuzu Trooper with an E-Wagon. A good friend who is a fleet leasing manager with the largest Mercedes dealer in our region (4th largest in the country) gave me an earful at our last "cigar night". Bottom line is that he refuses to sell us a first year model Mercedes of any type. Claims that from 1996 on (previous E redesign), the first (and even 2nd / 3rd) year bugs and problems have been horrific - from the C class through the S-class and beyond. As someone who is involved in leasing several hundred Mercedes a year, I'd be foolish not to listen to his advise.

I'm not in the SC/SL market, but I find it hard to believe that most prospective buyers who could comfortably afford both wouldn't rate the SL as the better car in terms of performance, looks and prestige. On the other hand, Lexus has stolen a lot of business form Mercedes by competing on price, build quality and reliability, "Buick-like" ride notwithstanding. Apparantly, Mercedes is either too arrogant or lacking in capabilities to correct their shortcomings in this area. I hope the 2005 E-Wagon benefits from some of these anecdotal musings making their way up to someone in Mercedes management who will take them to heart and action.

merc1 · May 2003

The thing I can't understand is that if the Acura TL-S has such a widespread transmission problem, why hasn't that shown up in all the survey clucther's bibles? I mean JD Powers, Consumer Reports etc, etc. That in itself is why I refuse to base everything on what these surveys say. Is a Mercedes less reliable than a Lexus, all the surveys say yes. What level are these problems so many Mercedes' are having? Surely they aren't dropping transmissions, they're *usually*, I say usually relatively minor. Until Acura gets dinged for their "problem" I'm not going to write Mercedes off either.

M

habitat1 · May 2003

Actually, I agree with you on not giving too much reliance upon JD Powers, Consumer Reports, et al. To the best of my knowledge, none of them identified that there was some transmission "gear grinding" going on in the 2000/2001 model year Honda S2000. Nor have I found much "official" documentation on what appears to be a well known problem that Porsche Boxster power roofs are terribly unreliable and prone to malfunctions. I found out about it from reading Edmunds, S2k International and other forums. And checking with a couple reputable dealers. I waited to buy a 2002 model S2000 after Honda addressed their problem with an upgraded transmission.

As for Mercede's reliability issues I cannot turn my back on the "anecdotal" evidence I have gleened from my informal research and inquiries. It may not have the statistical legitimacy of a JD Powers study, but I'm not sure it's any less accurate relative to the current state of affairs.

I'm curious, if you don't put credence in JD Powers, et al OR your own anecdotal research, what do you consider relative to reliability. Or do you just blindly believe that Mercedes must be good.

P.S. Independent agency faults notwithstanding, Consumer Reports did name the BMW 530i the best car they have ever tested. And I believe the ML320 was rated as the second worst vehicle of 100+ in terms of initial quality by JD Powers. Both of these assessments happen to coincide with my anecdotal research.

P.P.S. I would never buy a Lexus because of it's reliability. They just don't do anything for my soul. But I might NOT buy a Mercedes, Porsche or other car if the reliability were known to be poor. I have a low tolerance for frustration.

merc1 · May 2003

No of course I don't blindly believe that Mercedes is "good". I usually try to go by the people I know that own them more than I do a survey because I can find out exactly what the problem is on someone's car that I know personally. Mercedes' reliablity (in my experience of above) is a mixed bag depending on the model. I do believe in using CR, JDP etc etc to get a general idea of vehicle reliability, but I would never swear by it. There also seems to be a mood of panic here and on other boards where I'm having this same conversation (well the other conversation has gone south) that a Mercedes simply won't start and they're always on the side of the road with their hoods up. Then we have the group that use posts here as a reference, all the while forgetting that people with problems will seek a mesg board to get help in the first place. There are two things you'll read about the most on here about ANY brand, advice on pricing a someone seeking help for a problem. I have no illusion about Mercedes not having a reliability problem, it's on the extremist attitude of them being total junk is where I discount what a person says...especially the survey clutchers who like myself don't own one.

A lot of people research on the internet nowadays before buying a car so I'm sure they know full well that a BMW, Mercedes, VW, Porsche or Audi isn't going to match the average Japanese car in reliability. That tells me that either Japanese cars aren't as flawless as they are made out to be, or that not every German car buyer is having all these dreaded problems as so often told with my "co-worker this" and my "brother this" type stories. Everyone, including me has those types of stories about every single brand of car made.

Another thing that further weakens these survey's value is the fact that in the latest round of them a Hummer of all things got knocked for fuel economy. Who in their right mind would think a 6500lb truck with gasoline V8 would post stellar MPG numbers? Didn't the people who knocked the Mini Cooper know that the gauge cluster was in the center of the dash when they test drove it? Didn't they know it didn' have a cupholder. Those things are not "problems" in the sense of a non-starting engine or mis-aligned trunk lid. I've read posts on hear about people with MB's and other German cars that don't know how to adjust things, yet they register that as a "problem". Thats a car companys fault if you didn't go over the car with your salesperson, or read the manual? I just can't write off some of the most enjoyable cars on the road based on stuff like that.

Some say that because I don't own one I can't possibly understand what they're saying about reliability. Well guess what, I have a Mitsubishi, and believe me I've had to put up with more than a few things through the years, and I still like the car. According to the surveys a Mitsu is supposed to be junk right?

M

kamily1 · May 2003

It seems you are a consumer and like many of us dedicated to this forum. Merely weigh your allegiance to Mercedes after reviewing other owners experiences per this link... Click here: http://jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/2003028cfull.gif If you are not an executive loyalist, flamboyant celebrity or entertainer, you too will indulge a Sc 430. It will be judicious for you to experience Lexus's "pursuit of perfection." Notice, Cadillac owners have since rendered many of its products as more superior to Mercedes... Click here: http://jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/2003028bfull.gif Likely the culprit to Mercedes's ongoing demise will be discovered soon. 2003 owner satisfaction is once again unfavorable and some say it is the manufacturers alliance with America. Hopefully alliance problems exist as a few early 'jitters and glitches.' Things should improve and I am certain Mercedes Benz's owners will render improved numbers for their ownership experiences. Now if you offer any grief to these J.D. Powers facts, unleash your dismay with the owners of the products and not me Merc1.

merc1 · May 2003

I can't help but ask if you're read anything stated above? You just provided the same links as someone did a few posts ago no? Do you take these surveys to be the end all and last word on the issue?

M

4381077 · May 2003

"vetlex" accused me of LOVING my CLK which most certainly is not true. I am very fond of its styling, handling ect., but as is the case with these new breed Benz's it's very unreliable and i doubt there'll ever again be a Benz in my garage. That said, this new CLK is very seductive as it's superior in styling handling and ride to the last generation CLK. I'd also suspect that it will be even less reliable, but that won't stop most from taking one home. I wish Lexus could simply raise the bar on syling and performance to where I'd buy one. We've had an ES in the garge for the past 10 years ( 2 cars actually) and Lexus clearly produces a higher quality, more reliable products that just don't do it for my eye or soul. The ES belongs to the bride and she drives me to and from my far too regular Benz service appointments.

vetlex · May 2003

Once again...........................just enjoying the debate for the heck of it.

I think your message pretty much capsulizes Mercedes and Lexus strengths. No accusations.
I love my sc430 for it's style, solidity, luxury and reliability. When this car can stir the soul like a porsche Boxster then it will have TRULY arrived.

D

ron36330 · May 2003

You first must realize what type car is an SC 430.
Auto magazine classified it as a "Prestige Car" and it got best buy accolades. The SC 430 is a personal luxury car. It was not intended to be a sports car or GT. Ergo it does not compete with Porsche, SL's, SLK's, Jags or BMW. It is a quiet, luxurious,quality and smooth riding car. If you are looking for a sport or GT then don't even consider an SC 430 because it doesn't pretend to be one of those. But if you are looking for reliability and quality then the SC 430 should be first on your list.
Ron

kamily1 · May 2003

Caring members, both vehicles arrived today. We are simply elated. The gX 470 and the sC 430 arrived in pristine condition. Although the shipper suggested he "confronted inclement weather for a segment," the cars reflect very few water markings. Needless to say, our confidence became tweaked after your email concerns. Your assorted blatant skepticism did challenge our commitment..... Nevertheless, we remained confident and per the Lexus Franchise Owner's intervention. FYI, my father called the area Police, BBB and several franchise affiliates it seems. As a team, we both exhausted ourselves with investigation.

Well, as advised by a few Club Lexus members, I immediately examined the under-chasis as the vehicles sat high above my height. Our careful analysis revealed no leaks or inferior parts. Most important, no rust existed in or around the exhaust system and etc..... I was told by a few club members to examine the bottom closely. As the shipper removed both automobiles from the truck, the keys were then given. We then slowly inspected each bumper, light, mirror and window for cracks, chips, scratches, stains and scuff marks. We meticulously inspected both vehicles from the front bumper to the quarter panels and to the rear bumper. We found no defects again. As we entered the interior cabin, the odor of fresh high grade leather tickled our noses. The seats and carpets immediately met our expectations. We then proceeded to examine the ceiling, activated the on and off features for the navigation system, radio, air conditioner system and more. Everything seemed operational and we performed these inspections while the shipper stood nearby obviously intrigued with our investments. He was a very nice guy. Members, we could not find any faults. Of course we anticipated none. Our confidence remained firm since both cars are brand new revealing 12 miles and the other revealing only 15 miles per the odometer readings. Members, this VolumeSeller guy delivered. 'He is the man,' if to utter a popular phrase.

Excitement flows in our veins. We must exit for another extensive drive and before our wives snatch these 'toys' from us, smile.

Ty and father.

4381077 · May 2003

I'm trying to convince myself to buy an SC for reliability and that great interior, but my test drives have left me somewhat cold. I understand that the run flat issue can be cured by buying non-run flats, but the low end issue continues to baffle me. The Lexus literature specs 0 to 60 at sub 6 seconds, but the car feels closer to a 7 second vehile to me. I've only read one review that claimed to actually run it on track and i think they did 6.7 seconds. Although not an end of the world issue, I was very disappointed when I discovered too late that my CLK cab runs at 7 seconds versus 6 for the coupes. MB at least confirms this is their literature so shame on me for not reading the foot notes. I found nothing from Lexus that says anything other than 6 seconds. Anyone have a link to a reliable test?

pathdoc · May 2003

The latest issue (July) of Motor Trend does a comparison of the SC 430, SL500 and Cadillac XLR. There are performance numbers as well as other specs. Their subjective rankings were #1 500SL, #2 XLR and #3 SC 430. No consideration was given to pricing. While some mention was made re the small trunk in the SC430 no such mention was made of the totally inadequate space in the XLR with the top down (~4 ft3).

ron36330 · May 2003

I can refer you to Car & driver test results at 6.7 secs. I know the car feels slow off the line but it really scoots from 30-100mph.
In my opinion the SC is really more of a personal luxury car rather than a "sports car".
However, as for appeal. I get compliments every time I drive mine on what a great looking car it is.
Anyway, just my . 02.
Ron

habitat1 · May 2003

Your observation about the SC430 feeling slow off the line is a common one.

On paper, the SC430 should perform comparably to (or better than) the SL500. Same (rated) horsepower and the SL's slight torque advantage is offset by the SC's 200 lbs lighter weight. Why there is such a noticable difference in immediate responsiveness between the SC and SL isn't clear to me. Perhaps the transmission? Perhaps Lexus overstated the SC's real power ratings?

Unfortunately, we don't drive on paper and most people I know who have driven the SC430 expecting it to perform like a sports car have not purchased it after a test drive. On the other hand, it is a beautiful car that cruises the boulevard with the best of them.

squidd99 · May 2003

When I bought the car, I thought that 0 to 60 was about 6 seconds, and now that I hear that it's more like 7 seconds, I'm not too disappointed, because I, for one, have that kind of time to waste. Besides, when I travel between cities and cruise at 80 to 95 mph, and still have lots of power to pass when I need to, somehow that lost second getting up to 60 seems insignificant.

I still like the car, despite all its many shortcomings.

carnaught · May 2003

....the car is that after a year, I fully realized it was just not FUN to drive, and it should be. The interior and quality are first rate, but it just wasn't quite enough IMO.

Lexus SC 430

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