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2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
We don't really do screamer ad's but regretfully certain types of cars don't sell well in snow season...so part of the year we offer healthy savings to turn the inventory and maintain a strong allocation for the spring and summer months.
When I purchased the car it listed at $33,600 with the options I wanted which had to be put on later. I purchased the vehicle for $28,900 with the options listed above. Purchased 9-29-03
There's no way it should stall and your dealer doesn't have a clue what he/she's talking about. No way you should idle your car for 5 minutes...that just adds to poor MPG and to polution (true of any car that idles a lot).
I also traded in my 2003 Jeep Liberty w/ 23 k miles for $14,200 (Terry from Real World Trade-In Values had estimated $13,500). I had originally earmarked $15k for a private party sale so the $14,200 + sales tax savings amounted to roughly $15,100 in equivalent value. My difference payment before TTL was $13,125.
I love the car, and at the pricing level I got, I am OK with the trade-off that it's not a NEW car. I have really enjoyed it so far. I took it this past weekend to Fort Worth to their new Modern Art Museum and it looked like it fit right in with the architecture of the place!
On the stalling comment before, I interpreted the "Short Trip Driving Procedures" in the manual as implying you may flood your engine if you turn off the car before it warms up. Everytime I have turned on the car, I let it idle till the car idles just slightly below 1K RPM, and then before I turn it off, I always wait till the temp gauge is basically in the middle (sometimes revving it slightly). My shortest trip, however, has been a few miles so it hasn't been a problem. If you just wanted to move your car from one spot to the next, you would have this issue and need to force yourself to check the temp gauge. I generally have cold starts twice a day (morning and evening commute).
None of this adds up.
There's absolutely nothing in the manual that states you have to idle the car before driving (in fact, it's the exact opposite...they SUGGEST to drive the car mildly immediately after start up until it warms up). The manual states absolutely nothing about idling it before shut down.
Either there's something you aren't telling us or the dealership you bought the car for under cost has pulled some sort of extremely shady deal by selling you something that wasn't represented correctly.
Who's your dealer?
I'm just telling you what they are saying now because of a problem.
The dealership is in Sioux City, Iowa. This area is very conservative and not too many people have cars like this. It's usually buicks and chevrolet's.
I'm not pulling anyones leg here. By the way your flag is from a different country anyway.
I realize this is a first model year but by being a Japanese car manufacturer I thought the bugs would be out of it.
Also, the deal he received isn't the only one received. I paid $31,300 out the door for my MT, Red Vel, appearance package, spare tire kit, nav system...loaded. MSRP of $34,865 to be exact...(knock on wood, no major problems reported)
However, the car doesn't misfire and turn off as my thread over in problems/solutions seemed to turn into...it actually just sounds like it's missing or rather the sound you'd get with an exhaust leak...
Regarding the stalling, he said his dealer wouldn't fix it at no charge under warranty. IF it is under warranty, and his dealer won't replace the computer causing the stalling (if that is indeed the cause), then there's something seriously wrong with the dealer...even if it's in an area where there aren't many RX8s. They have to have qualified techs in order to be a dealer.
There is absolutely no mention in the manual about any warm up or cool down procedures except for the following (taken right out of the manual):
"In exteremely cold weather, below 0 degrees, or after the vehicle has stood idle several days, let the engine warm up without operating the accelerator."
That's it.
I still think there's either some FUD going on or some significant facts missing here. I know you said your dealer's in Siuox City, but what's the name of the dealership?
As for the deals or discounts, that one dealer that leaves posts on here (audia8) says that in the Northeast (or places that will see a winter), RX-8s had to be discounted to the amount RX8_is_great is claiming. In states like Florida, audia8 mentioned they are still selling at MSRP (but not above it). He talked of sending vehicles down there since it's more popular around this season.
I agree that if bjversani took delivery of the car at 9 miles, the price seems low and the problem sounds questionable.
carliker...I've been through the manual so much, I've practically got it memorized. The problems mentioned and procedures suggested don't have any factual basis regarding the stalling described. I have never heard of any legitimate dealer turning down warranty service for any car as long as there was no modifications or abuse that would affect the warranty.
Like you, I'm not buying the below invoice thing at all....
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
The dealership that is fixing the problem is in DesMoines and I don't think they are real willing to do warranty work for a car that was not purchased there.
Mazda has ok'd the work under warranty to replace the plugs but stated this would be the only time. My problem was that the car stalled on it's own in 15 sec. Then it would not refire at all...causing the flooding immediately.
I was searching for an answer from true RX8 owners on the problem and possible future problems.
I'm guessing that if you stall the car right away after start-up......good luck with trying to get it restarted. The area that I live in has harsh winters, my guess is the dealership is trying to move the cars. They are not selling very well here.
Now that I think about it, the dealer did state that the price was only good on this car only and not the silver one that was exactly like it.
If you tell me your dealer way overallowed $$$ on your trade-in and/or you bought the "dealer add-on extras" as gbrozen pointed out, then that may be understandable.
I still can't see why an authorized Mazda dealer would tell you they will fix it once under warranty, but never again, for what you describe as a "flooding" problem and your airbag light coming on.
I searched for Mazda dealers in Des Moines. Mazda has some listed for Waterloo and Urbandale, but none for Des Moines. What's the dealer's name?
"Here in the northeast the car is slow...The northeast has always been a seasonal sports car market and it happens every year.....but at our mazda store in Florida they are selling everyone they can get at full MSRP. I have a bigger allocation then they do and I actually shipped them some cars last week.....I will discount instock RX-8's, alot, until the spring when the market will be strong. The mazdaspeed's and Miata's are the same way....firesale prices during the fall/winter and much higher prices during the spring and summer."
This is what I meant.
Even with the huge rebates that GM is throwing out there, I'm not certain any of their cars are moving. They've evn got rebates on Corvettes. That's the first time I've heard of that.
I recently bought a used Civic to use as a 2nd car (you really didn't think I was going to drive the RX8 in the snow, did you?). The Honda dealer I bought it from said he would sell any new car on their lot for $300 over invoice, including Odys and Pilots (wouldn't do $300 over invoice on S2000s, but would discount them).
I think he much preferred me buying the used Civic, though.
I have no explanation why they accepted my offer on the car. The dealership where the car is being fixed is in Urbandale which is a suburb of DesMoines--sorry. I think the flooding issue will be a big problem in the future on these Mazda RX8's. I dare you to shut yours off after 15 seconds!!! It won't restart.
The true invoice on a loaded RX8 is somewhere around $28,500(not including navigation) This my friends is a true story. Right now in the cities there is a demand on these vehicles causing people to pay MSRP.
I'm not trying to make enemies here....just stating my experiences.
The vehicle that won was the Nissan Titan. Wow, a Japanese full-sized pickup truck. How incredible (Sarcasm just doesn't translate well to text).
The RX-8 designs a new rotary engine and places it in a four-passenger sports car, but that is less significant than a Japanese full-size pickup truck? I wouldn't mind if the Cadillac XLR had won because at least it is interesting. The Japanese could have entered the full-size pickup market any time they wanted. I guess that Edmunds' editors and I have a different opinion on what is significant.
Note: I harbor an unfair bias against pickup trucks, so feel free to ignore my comments. :P
Tom
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
For example, I don't pretend to know how much it costs the dealership to pay their sales and administration staff. Nor, do I know what the cost of the property or the building they operate from, nor the dealer's payments to the banks to finance their inventory. I don't know how much their electric bill is, nor the cost of all those computers, desks, chairs, etc they use at the dealership.
Don't forget, the dealer has to make money to stay afloat. So, they made money somewhere.
Point being, there are many ways to structure a deal that the dealership can and will make money on, as mentioned above.
The RX8 is a significant new car from Mazda and from what I can ascertain, one that is selling well in the market. The dealer will not sell it below invoice knowing they can get more for it from the next customer. Maybe if you were buying a new purple, stripped Taurus that's been sitting on the lot for 3 months you may be able to get one below invoice. Not the RX8, though. There is just no incentive for the dealer to do that.
If you say you bought an RX8 below invoice, my guess would be the dealer under allowed for your trade, financed you higher than the going rate, made money on dealer installed options, charged you $500 for some "Super Shine" wax, etc to make up for the lack of money they made on the straight sale of the car.
Your purchase dealer and/or your servicing dealer sound "shady" in giving you grief to cover some warranty work. Plus, your selling dealer sounds like they did some "hide the money" in the ways stated above if you indeed bought it below invoice. Either way, they sound real shady. I won't deal with dealers that do business that way.
Personally, I've started my car many times and shut it off immediately when moving it around while washing it, moving it in and out of my garage/driveway, etc. I've never had any issues with stalling or flooding.
graphic - I turned on my RX-8 several times to move it from one spot to another in a matter of seconds, there was never any problems. Since it's not good leaving a car idle and running, there would be times when I'd go through drive-thrus and just turn the car off. I would turn it right back on within seconds and it ran just as well everytime. Sometimes, people want company when experiencing car mishaps.
That's my theory anyway.
Tom
carliker....I don't mind helping other people with their cars or even commiserating when they have problems. I just believe this stalling, airbag light, lack of dealer support scenario leaves a lot of key details out of the discussion.
Any authorized MAzda dealer is required to do warranty work on in warranty Mazda cars regardless of where it was purchased. For a dealer to give someone grief about warranty work, in addition to there being a problem with some obscure procedure where the cars is stalling coupled with a 'questionable' deal to begin with, makes me highly suspicious.
There's way too much FUD being bantered about regarding the car in many different places.
I'm just trying to help getting to the bottom of the issues....trying to find out the dealer's name (which I've been unsuccessful at so far) since I have a friend that lives in the Sioux City area who could offer more insight to the dealer's practices.
H-powered RX-8
At the Tokyo motor show, Mazda debuted its latest take on a hydrogen future with the Hydrogen Renesis rotary in an RX-8 that can run on either gasoline or hydrogen, making it an ideal transitional vehicle for a future where hydrogen and gasoline both serve our vehicles. Rotary engines work well with hydrogen fuel because the fuel-injection area of the engine is cooler than in a piston engine. Mazda first showed a hydrogen-powered rotary in 1991, the H-RX.
Well, wonderful gas mileage is on its way!
I've done the start/brief run/shut down procedure numerous times with no problems. I think there must be a setting that must be wrong for stalling to occur. There's no reason a dealer shouldn't address this under warranty.
Hint: the wonderful gas mileage comes at a fairly substantial cost to the performance....
Now you're getting it, graphicguy. There are people (or perhaps one person with more than one screen name) who are here solely to discredit Mazda -- and perhaps don't even own an RX-8. Who knows why. It was (is?) like this over on the Mazda6 board and on a couple of other web sites. The complaints have no consistency or logic or ring of truth to them.
This isn't to say that these remarkable cars -- brand new with barely tested-in-the-real-world technology and engineering -- don't and won't have some problems. Or that there are no problems at all with dealers and service departments. But Methinks one or two natterers here do protest too much about their car/dealer/ownership experience to be believed.
It's as if they have automotive Munchausen's Syndrome, trying to suck the enjoyment of these wonderful cars out of our very souls because they have somehow been, or imagine themselves to have been, wronged by Mazda. If they're miserable, then the rest of us should be too.
Thanks.
r2s2 - there are going to be people who criticize or say negative things about the RX-8. That's what the forum is here for and you can obviously state your opinion too. This is the proper place for some frustrated/disappointed owners to come and talk of their negative experiences with the car/dealerships. If you feel so strong about how great the RX-8 is, you shouldn't feel offended and take what they say so harshly. Defend your position and state the positives you've had. I had a negative experience with my Mazda dealership (and had some issues with the RX-8) and some poster said that I was bashing Mazda. The RX-8 is a fun car but this would be a boring forum is everyone agreed with each other.
Hydrogen, being less energy-dense than gasoline, will yield less power and lower mileage. This goes for ethanol-gasoline mixtures too.
Its advantage is very clean emissions (water), and a theoretically renewable energy source (you can break the water back into hydrogen and oxygen, but you need energy to do that...where it comes from will determine just how clean this energy source is).
From what I've seen, others will do their best to spread "untruths" about the cars, how they purchased, how it performs, how it's built, etc because they have something different and would like the RX8 in their driveway. Some have never even driven one and try to draw conclusions based on what they read in forums like Edmunds and elsewhere.
For example, I thought the restatement of the HP issue was minor. Mazda stepped up and made very strong offers to those who initially bought the cars. However, it turned into a firestorm of FUD...even for those who had never driven the car.
I don't mind any healthy debate about any car. Just make sure the facts are straight.
People then get frustrated who are really interested in the RX8, go to their dealer and find out that there are no rebates, no "back of invoice" deals to be had. And then use what someone posted on the net as proof that somehow they're getting screwed by either Mazda or the Mazda dealer. The deal in Iowa where the dealer gave someone grief over warranty work just adds fuel to this fire. Particularly given that the "facts" are so hard to ascertain.
I've personally driven the 6. In my estimation, it's a world class sports sedan and quite handsome. Try telling that to someone who is driving a competing model, though.
habitat....I bought the used Civic several weeks ago. The Honda dealer had some new '03s that they were trying to clear out. I don't know if they are still "making deals" on the Pilot and Ody, but the dealership is the SUPERIOR group (Superior Honda, specifically). Derrek was the guy's first name, but I can't recall his last name. He said he worked for all the Superior dealerships (Acura, Hyundai, Chevy, Honda). I don't really know what he meant by "working for all the dealerships", but I got involved with him after the original sales person had left the dealership. He was sitting in the "big office" so I'll assume he carried some weight.
If interested and you know the area, I was looking for a used/cheap/decent running Toyota, Honda, Mazda. Had very little luck with private owners (most of the private sales thought they should get OVER KBB/Edmunds/NADA used value for their cars. It's amazing to me what kind of money these cars demand on the used market. Went to all the Honda/Toyota dealerships locally. I found the PERFORMANCE GROUP to be a bit shady, so I never came to a deal with them, although they had a good selection of used Hondas and Toyotas. That left the WYLER GRUOP and Superior. Wyler didn't have anything in my price range. I did like the people at Superior, however...straight shooters and no BS.
And, also yes, the power is typically lower if you use the same setup for gas as you do the hydrogen. But changing the setup for purely hydrogen by raising compression ratio and/or forcing in more fuel/air can give results more similar to gas.
(i'm giving all this purely based on memory from research I did on the subject over a decade ago, so its open to debate, but I believe this is accurate.)
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Which is why I made the observation that the increased mileage/lower emmissions would occur at fairly substantial cost to performance, at least in this application.
What kind of performance numbers would that bring up? 0-60 in 15-20 seconds?
Is performance reduced because it can handle gasoline applications as well? After all, if they could do twice the power output, then essentially you've got the performance output for the Rx-8 Auto, which would be great.
Also, there's a few hydrogen stations in California that just use solarpower to create H2 gas at the pump.
rorr - Less gas mileage and less performance? Well, the amount of fuel it will need will be a plus at least. I'm sure most people will sacrifice the fun of the regular RX-8 for the clean emissions of the hydrogen one - spreading the sarcasm thick here.