Mazda RX-8

bunnygirl · February 2006

As far as I am aware, you can order satellite radio when you order your car, if you do a special order like I did. I'm not getting satellite radio so I didn't pay a lot of attention. I saw on the pricing guide they had a price listed for fender strakes as being a port installed option. However, it wasn't available when I placed my order. As far as I know, to get a good deal on the strakes, you would have to buy them at the time you buy your car, i.e. sign the papers and pick it up. Even then I think it is up to dealer discretion since it is basically an extra accessory for the car. When I did my order I told them I wanted the strakes and wanted to have them already installed on my car when I get it. I was told they almost always have at least one set in stock, but to double check with them when they notify me it is "released from port" since it would take a week to get them in if they didn't have some in already. (There is always the option of taking their's from the display case if nothing else).

It appears my ETA is April 17 due to an electronic parts availability issue (they ran out of something) I think that had to do with my Navigation. This is fine by me since my work cut my pay down to $9 an hour from $25 an hour and I can't afford my car on that salary let alone anything other expenses (was told a few months ago the work slow down and shortage was just temporary; it's not and they cut my pay, too). Fortunately, I have a job interview for a new job in the same field at another hospital so I am thinking it is highly likely I am getting it. The position has been available since at least the beginning of December and is listed as "critical to fill" with hiring bonuses. I have the interview next week. They called me within two days of sending my application in. I will still keep my current crap job for a few months part time to get a little cash built up to pay down some other bills so I won't have to work so much to afford everything. I will have to drive to the new job, though, so I will really need my car!!! Currently I work at home.

pathstar1 · February 2006

My understanding of the manual recommendation is they (engineers) figured there was fuel "pooling" inside the engine when the engine was cold. If you shut it down at idle the fuel just stays there. If you rev. it up it disturbs the pooled fuel and it gets exhausted from the engine. I'm not sure why they don't recommend shutting off at 3000 RPM - perhaps they were worried some would "pop" the clutch and loose control of the car. As I said, it's better than doing nothing and I haven't seen any problems caused by doing it. It has been my operating procedure even with a warm engine.

As far as warmup, as soon as the oil pressure is up you could drive away. Just don't use a lot of throttle. This isn't peculiar to rotaries, it applies to any high performance engine - any engine even. When the engine is cold the parts haven't expanded to their final size and high power output can cause the parts to wear faster. After a few minutes of driving the engine is at "operating temperature" (the metal parts), and after about five minutes the coolant should be at its' control temperature.

Another way to look at it is when the temp. gauge is off the cold "pin" about 1/4" you can safely shut off the engine (safely re flooding). If you want to warm up a cold engine I find running it at 2000 to 3000 RPM cuts the time down a lot. Of course it also uses more fuel - tnstaafl (there's no such thing as a free lunch).

mdw1000 · February 2006

Tripsec,

Did your RX-8 come with the "driver's guide" or did they just start including that recently? That is where they talk about needing to do it for an engine that is not warmed up. I know the service guys in the department at my dealer have been to the special rotary school that mazda has, and the depts opinion seems to be only do it when you haven't been able to properly warm up the engine.

plekto · February 2006

The problem is identical to my old Mercedes, though it will start reguardless since it's an inline-6.

The engine uses oil during operation. The real problem isn't fuel, which mostly evaporates and is easily and almost insteantly burned off, but oil that seeps in and pools over a few hours. So you need to drive it and/or rev it a bit to "blow out" the excess oil in the cylinders.

My trick is to start it, let it idle until the temp gauge *just* starts to come off of the bottom(about a minute or so), then drive it gently until it gets warm. Works like a charm and no vapor-lock(got carbs that are a bit famous for this, actually), either. Cold oil sits there, pretty much, while warm oil is easy to get rid or or spread around the cylinders. If the injectors or plugs get clogged with gummy oil sediment... oops.

That said, my car runs like junk for the first 2-3 minutes until all fo the excess oil and crud is gone. Then it's fine all the rest of the day. I suspect this is happening with the RX-8, though it should clear up much faster due to fuel injection and computers. Maybe a minute of bad behavior on really cold days.

trispec · February 2006

No "driver's guide" in mine. The advice on the 3000RPM shut down is from experienced rotary owners and engineers who've had long experience with rotary engines going back over the decades.

My RX-8 has never needed more than 2 or 3 seconds to fire up even on 10F degree mornings. I just started to test another shut down procedure to see if the fire up time remains the same.

trispec · February 2006

My new shut down procedure is very similar to the 3000RPM rev for 10 seconds then immediate cut the switch.

The new procedure is 3000RPM for 10 seconds, then take my foot off the throttle for half a second, then cut the switch.

The theory being, that by being letting off the gas first, that a even more of the remaining gas will burn up because for half a second the spark plugs will still being flashing. This probably happened anyway at times under my old procedure just from the random chance that my foot came of the gas before the switch off happen. So I'm not risking any thing new here.

As time goes on, I should be able to increase the time delay before switch off and then correlate this with the next start up time. If the start up starts to creep up, then I can theorize that any remaining gas is increasing and a finally theory can be published.

Silly, I know, I know, but college statistical training needs some manner of expression, otherwise why was I pounding that useless knowledge in my head all the years.

pathstar1 · February 2006

In the rotary engine it isn't oil, it really is fuel (gasoline). In a piston engine excess fuel in the combustion chambers can "leak down" to the oil pan past the rings when the engine isn't running. In a rotary this isn't possible. The path to the oil pan is "up" - that is, into the oil inside the rotor. There is no open path to the oil pan below the rotor housing.

If you have gasoline inside a cold rotary engine, there is no way for it to evaporate, as there is nowhere for the vapour to go. In winter it wouldn't evaporate anyway, as the temperature is too low. When you try to start the cold engine with excess fuel inside the fuel soaks the spark plugs and they don't fire well if at all. Then the engine starts firing in lots more fuel (because it's in choke mode as it's cold). Now you have a flood. The only way out is to:-
1. stop the fuel injectors from adding more fuel, (one of Mazda's fixes delayed the fuel injector firing during cold start)
2. crank the engine to exhaust the fuel already in there, and
3. fix the spark plug problem.

The fixes are:
1. hold the throttle pedal to the floor - this engages a "fuel shutdown" mode that shuts off the injectors.
2. crank for 30 sec. at a time and let the starter rest (cool off) for a minute between. Hold the throttle to the floor throughout this procedure, otherwise you will end up with still more fuel inside! If you add a cc or so of oil to each rotor housing the pumping out works much better as the oil "finishes" the sealing in the housing. Because #3 requires removal of the spark plugs you can remove them now and add the oil in there - leave them out and you have an extra escape route for the fuel (and excess oil if you added too much).
3. Clean or replace the spark plugs once you think you have pumped out the excess fuel.

A flooded rotary will eventually start, be patient, it really will. It will also emit copious amounts of smoke for a few seconds (the excess fuel and oil if you added it will burn).
In "the old days" we used to use auto transmission fluid, and it REALLY smokes!

booyahcramer · February 2006

I'm 6' 215 lbs. Felt very confined in the RX-8. Even my kids felt boxed into the back seats. This car seems to be for smaller drivers. I liked the styling tho. Not the confinement.

mdw1000 · February 2006

I'm actually 5'9" 205 lbs and feel good in the car. However, if I were much taller I don't think I'd have hardly any headroom, so I can see your point. For a 6 footer to fit I would imagine you would have to lean the seatback a bit more.

I actually fit in this car much better than the Acura TSX, which is a bigger car. The TSX was too narrow for me in the knee area, but the RX-8 fits me great there.

mdw1000 · February 2006

trispec,

"Silly, I know, I know, but college statistical training needs some manner of expression, otherwise why was I pounding that useless knowledge in my head all the years."

Ha! This gave me a good laugh! I had a year of statistics in college that I have yet to use...

Your new procedure sounds basically the same as the "driver's guide" procedure with the exception that you do it every time. Right now I am doing the same thing if I run the car for less than 10 or 15 minutes. Will see how that goes and let you know. So far no problems, and its been in the 30s and 40s F here since i've got the car. Not the coldest weather, but not the warmest either.

I do notice that in this weather the car warms up quick. Probably won't be quite as quick on those 0 degree F days

mdw1000 · February 2006

After having my RX-8 for a couple days and loving it, I'm starting to think about adding a couple things. I'm wondering if anyone has bought the mazda splashguards and if so, how they look on the car. I've noticed that these big tires seem to kick up a lot of stuff on the underside of the car - keep hearing little pieces of gravel, etc. Plus I've had dry roads and have still noticed a bit of "splash" dirt behind the front wheel wells.

Also, anyone bought the maza all-season floormats?

Thanks!

plekto · February 2006

Nice info about the engine - so it's doing what my old car does with oil in the cylinders(at 39 years old, she can be given some slack - still drives better than a new Corolla), but with gas.

Wouldn't a proper fix be to just partially open the valves when it's shut off? If the gas could evaporate, it would solve the problem, or at least most of it. I was also wondering - would changing to those multi-prong plugs help at all? Not the dent on the in the center type, but the ones that I've seen with four prongs coming in from the edges. That seems pretty near impossible to "get wet". I'd also suspect that platinum plugs with their small resistor surface in the center would fare worse as well.

duke15 · February 2006

I was sorry to hear about your job bunnygirl. My wife is a nurse and has worked at several hospitals and most of them seem to do money things like that in one way or another.

I called the Costco dealer on Tuesday, and left him a message saying that I wanted to order a car this week. He hasn't returned my call yet. I left him another message today. I never thought I'd see the day when I contacted a car salesman and said that I want to buy a car this week, and have been ignored. Maybe I'll phone him tomorrow and say, "What do I have to do to get me into a car today?". If I don't hear anything by Monday, I'll just go to another dealer, tell them what I get from the Costco program, and ask them to match it.

Good luck on getting the new job!

rorr · February 2006

"Wouldn't a proper fix be to just partially open the valves when it's shut off?"

Rotaries have no valvetrain and hence, no valves.

trispec · February 2006

I'm 6'1" 220lb. My wife and 7 year old son spend 16 hours over two days on a 1000 mile trip (2000 round trip) in my new RX-8. We practiced several smaller, shorter trips before, but we had absolutely no problem with the space in the RX-8.

In fact, I can say, with experience driving Mini-Vans, four door sedans, and wagons over the same 16 hour 1000 mile route, the RX-8 blows the other vehicles away because:

1) The RX-8 is way way easier to drive at high speed for passing and cruising. Need to get the job done in any other vehicle, you gotta work hard just to keep things on the road.

2) The RX-8 seats, are stunningly comfortable over very long periods. Other vehicles just don't support you.

3) The RX-8 is very easy to pack because of those suicide doors. Other vehicle might hold more, but then crap goes flying around alot too.

4) The RX-8 is plain fun to drive over the whole trip. Other vehicle are just mind crushingly boring to drive even 10 miles.

5) Put a golf glove on one hand then put an oven mit on the other. Which one is more comfortable?

trispec · February 2006

Yep, it' now closer to the manual's procedure, but the half second with my foot off the gas is not really long enough for the 3000RPM to drop much so the pumping action of the rotors is pretty much the same as before. But more gas is definitely being burned up in that half second.

Having done this modified shut down procedure a dozen times now, I can definitely say, that start up is much smoother and quicker with 1 second crank times every time. There must have been a very small bit of gas left before, because there was a little bit of a jerk to most startup. Now, it's like turning on an electric motor

plekto · February 2006

Rotaries have no valvetrain and hence, no valves.

That was my point, too - perhaps a device that opens up the intake ports or maybe even a couple of purge-valves(or simmilar) when it's off? Let some air into the engine. When the key is put in the ignition, they close click shut/back into position When the key is removed, they open up.

nikko · February 2006

I'm 6'3" 195 lbs and fit fine in my RX8. I even have a sunroof.

rorr · February 2006

"That was my point, too - perhaps a device that opens up the intake ports or maybe even a couple of purge-valves(or simmilar) when it's off?"

As I understand rotaries, the intake ports are ALWAYS open. They 'open' and 'close' as the rotor spins in the housing and the face of the rotor alternately covers up and then uncovers the ports (same for the exhaust side). The portion of the housing containing the spark plugs is located in a separate part of the housing from the intake. In other words, any fuel remaining in the portion of the housing containing the spark plugs is physically seperated from that part of the housing containing either the intake or exhaust ports.

Yes, I suppose that if the problem were severe enough, purge valves could be installed so that fuel remaining in the chamber with the plugs would have a means to escape. Personally, I don't think the problem is severe enough.

pathstar1 · February 2006

The liquid fuel runs to the bottom of the rotor housing, where it can sit for days (from experience, ours and others). When you try to start the engine some of it is swept up past the spark plugs. They are set deep in the rotor housing, with small holes that allow the spark created flame front to advance into the "combustion chamber" (the three "bathtub" like structures machined/cast into the rotor faces). Some liquid fuel enters through the small hole and soaks the spark plug, resulting in little or no spark.

Even though the "intake ports" are always open, they are low in the engine assembly, and gas vapour is heavier than air. It stays in the engine as it forms an equilibrium of condensation and evaporation. A warm or hot engine has no problem evaporating any liquid fuel left inside, hence it's hard to flood a warm engine. In this case the heat forces the fuel vapour out into the air box as well as into the carbon canister. It also helps to have warm spark plugs - any fuel touching them will evaporate rather than soak into the ceramic.

The solution is very simple. Don't start a cold engine and then shut it down before it warms up a bit. Don't think this problem is restricted to rotaries. It isn't. Piston engines resist the problem of no start because in most cases the spark plugs are high (don't get exposed to any liquid fuel) and any liquid fuel left in the combustion chambers runs past the piston rings into the oil in the crankcase. As long as the spark plugs fire they will recover from a flood condition. Have you never noticed that sometimes a piston engine will start up and emit a lot of carbon dust? It was flooded!

plekto · February 2006

So why don't they put the plugs as high up as possible and also install some sort of purge valve. Perhaps a second set of "plugs"?(their only function would be to burn off the fuel - basically not much different than a piezo type igniter found in cigarette lighters and most gas stoves these days) Start the car and you have three plugs firing and three little electric "starters" firing for a few seconds - then they shut off once it gets going.

Kind of like "glow plugs" for rotaries

mdw1000 · February 2006

Anybody here get the mazda Sirius satellite radio installed? If so, does it integrate well with the sound system?

rorr · February 2006

Plug location is dictated by the shape of the housing and the rotor. You can't just place the plugs wherever the hell you want. The only way to appreciably change the plug location would be to rotate the entire engine assembly (which would create other problems with both the intake and the exhaust port locations).

Personally, I don't know that this is still really THAT much of a problem. Are there still continual reports of flooding issues following the latest updates to the ECM?

pathstar1 · February 2006

Well, we haven't had a flood in the last two years, and we drive our RX-8 all year round in Edmonton Alberta. It gets cold up here! I think the flashs that Mazda have been doing were successful. If you try hard enough I'm sure you can flood the car, but with reasonable use I doubt you'll have a problem.

I've explained why it happened, and what Mazda did to fix it. I think it's fixed. End of story for me!

rorr · February 2006

"I've explained why it happened, and what Mazda did to fix it. I think it's fixed. End of story for me!"

Agreed. Issue resolved.

bunnygirl · February 2006

The first shipment has arrived "at port" today!!!!! They will be hitting dealerships in two to three weeks.

bunnygirl · March 2006

Mazda updated their website tonight (well, after midnight PST). All the 2006 info is up, with the exception of the Shinka since it is not due to be out for a few months anyway.

tokey · March 2006

Can someone tell me the location of all 9 Speakers?

Thanks All!

mugster2 · March 2006

ANyone from Canada know of a good aftermarket appearence parts wholesaler. I find the prices for RX8 addons a little pricy.

duke15 · March 2006

The 2005's had Velocity Red Mica paint, but on the Mazda site, the 2006's have Velocity Red paint listed. I think this is the same paint, but does anyone know for sure if it is? This is the last piece of info I need prior to ordering my new car.

thanks all!

bunnygirl · March 2006

Yep. It's the same paint. Order away!!!

bunnygirl · March 2006

I just checked with my dealer and my car is sitting at port with a dealer delivery date of March week 3, as are ALL the other 06's that have shipped so far (West Coast port in San Diego). So, around Spring Break is when you will start seeing 2006 models hitting dealer lots. I hope this puts to the rest all the "there are no 06's" rumors. Yay!!! I can hardly wait that long!!!!

kloepja · March 2006

My local dealer still has a new black 2004 RX8 on the lot, 380 miles. 6 speed with the sport package and a Nav system, and the spare tire accessory. They are asking $25,500 for it, which seems high to me. I was thinking $23,000 would be a fair price, any opinions?

How is the reliability been on these vehicles, would I be better off with a 2005 or 2006? I like the way it drives, and would love to own one, but am a little nervous about the flooding, and weak starting issues.

wpavlik2 · March 2006

I have a 2004 6mt with the GT package. I love my car. The only mechincal issue I have had is the brake pads squeeking at 16k miles (covered under TSB) and the O2 sensor went out. That was covered under warranty as well.
I would have liked the NAV system, but I wasn't willing to pay the 2 grand for it. (Not sure if you realize that it is a $2000 option)
My thing for the dealership would be to have them change the oil and give you a new battery for the vehicle before you take delivery. check here on the Edmunds site and see what a 2004 with those options is worth (TMV) and maybe check Kelly Blue Book as well.

pathstar1 · March 2006

Also, the 2006 models are basically the same as the 2004. There were some TSB issues, such as fuel tank insulation. The dealer has to address all those issues before selling the car, so you should be ok and the car should be right up to date. The only thing you can't get on the 2004 (that you could on a 2006) is the keyless entry/start system and the two new colours. I think the CD on the newer models will also play MP3s, whereas the older units can't - from reports from owners.

qbrozen · March 2006

i just checked carsdirect and they quote $26,798 for a brand new '06 equipped as you stated.

There is NO WAY I would pay $1300 less for a car 2 years older. I think your $23k price is closer ... but I still wouldn't do it, personally. Off the top of my head, I'd be looking for more like $2500 off for each year. So $5k off what I could get a new '06 for. That means less than $22k.

duke15 · March 2006

If you wait a couple of weeks until the 2006's are on the lots, you should be able to get a 2005 for that price. It is somewhat of a gamble, but you can get a better idea on price by checking out what the used 2004's cost on Edmunds with that equipment and mileage. Remember that it will essentially be two years old now. Your warrantee won't start until you buy it though. For comparison, the 2006 that I am ordering today is $31,300, and it is the 6-spd AT, GT, appearance pkg, spoiler, sirius, leather, and fender strakes. So, you are talking about $6k less than that, but a used 2005 with your specs is roughly $26,000, I would guess a 2004 would be roughly $24,000. If you want it, get it, but offer them your price and tell them that the 2006's will be on the lots around the end of the month so you won't go any higher. --You could also check the current rebates, and see what they are - but I would still offer them less and tell them you want the rebates too.

audia8q · March 2006

I would avoid the 2004...the 2005 has had alot better track record...saving a few dollars may not be worth the potential problems.

duke15 · March 2006

I ordered my car tonight - a ton of excitement followed by some disappointment when the forecasted date for my car to arrive isn't until June - that stinks. Still, I am looking forward to it, and for the first time I am getting exactly what I want - no more, no less - instead of deciding based what was on the lot. The specs are:
2006 RX-8
6-spd Sport A/T
Velocity Red Mica
Grand Touring Pkg
Black Leather
Spoiler
Appearance Pkg
Satellite Radio
Fender Strakes

I can't wait until it gets here! My thanks to all who endured my questions on this forum...

mdw1000 · March 2006

I recently bought an 05 AT GT for 24200. That is with all the Mazda and auto show rebates. They gave me the 05 for a little less than invoice and added on the rebates on top of that. This is in the Chicago area.

mdw1000 · March 2006

Congrats, Duke!

bunnygirl · March 2006

Congrats!!!! Enjoy it!!! Mine is due at the dealer next week!!!!

audia8q · March 2006

I hope your dealer has an existing RX-8 order they can change to fit your specs....Mazda isnt accepting dealer direct orders for the 2006 RX-8 this month.

duke15 · March 2006

They were talking about modifying an existing order, but I don't know if they did or not. I have to wait until June for my car - do you think it is because they are planning on waiting until next month to actually order it?

I thought I remember reading something on the site (perhaps from bunnygirl about her car?) about build dates, or something like that. Is there any information that I can have the dealer check on for my car so that I can track it better?

Thanks everyone!

audia8q · March 2006

Have them change an existing order....They may not have pulled this months build restrictions since orders go in next week. I wouldn't count on any further direct orders for 2006 RX-8. Even if they open up the orders for the 8 next month you would be looking at july delivery.

Have your dealer pull this months 'vehicle reqeust guide'....it gives them all the restrictions.

plekto · March 2006

I'd personally avoid the touring package and get the sport package plus traction control instead. Saves a little money and I don't like the sunroof - it's too far back to actually look out of while driving and takes up a lot of headroom.

Possibly they have sometihng like that on the list as well - without the silly wait.

duke15 · March 2006

Thanks for the advice, but I don't want to change any of the options, I'd rather wait and get exactly what I want. I spoke with the dealer and they said that they modified an existing order to change one with the specs that I wanted from being a silver one to being a red one. They also said that the June date is the latest possible date that it would come in, and that they pad the date a little bit so that they don't deliver the car later than promised. They are supposed to get an update once the car has been completed and is ready for shipment, and they said it is usually 4 weeks after that point that they get the car.

The wait stinks, but I have basically been waiting since before the 2004's were released and we could just read about them, so I can wait a little longer. At least I don't have to wait as long as everyone that ordered theirs thinking it would be delivered last fall.

bunnygirl · March 2006

My car was changed specs on a dealer prealottment. It was originally to have been built Nov. week 1 but they pushed everything back for various reasons and didn't start building them until Feb. So, on Nov. 22 they changed the specs to mine and it was supposed to have gone into production Dec. week 1 but didn't (more delays). It finally went into production Feb. week 1. My dealer notified me on Jan. 26 that it had been assigned a VIN and build date. It was put on the first (small) shipment of 2006 RX-8s, which shipped out on Feb. 10. These were destined for the port in San Diego for delivery to dealers on the West Coast. Unfortunately, the original sales manager was transferred to another dealership within the autogroup so I didn't get detailed information of what was going on with my car past the build date until I tracked him down and had him look. (I know have his personal cell phone number if I have any more questions or problems!!) My car has been sitting "at port" since last Monday or Tuesday. It is slated to be "released from port" this Friday and put on a truck up to Portland to my dealer. So, sometime next week I am getting my car. Yay!!!!

Your dealer should give you an order number and probably your VIN when it is assigned one. You could then call MNAO and have them look it up for you but your dealer should also notify you of its progress. Since you are on the East Coast your car should be going to a port in New Jersey, so I don't know the exact shipping/delivery time frames for it. I know there is a guy in my other RX-8 forum that lives in PA and his car was built at the end of the same week mine was and his has just now shipped out and is to expect his car by mid April.

My car will have taken six weeks from starting production to delivery to me, so not too bad. It just depends on how long it takes to actually start production.

duke15 · March 2006

Thanks for the update bunnygirl. Once I find out it is in production I can use your numbers for the west coast as a rough guide as to when I'll get mine. I can't imagine how frustrating it must have been for you waiting this long for your car. It sounds like you will have it just in time for spring! I've only seen one blue one in this area, but it looked really sharp - especially in the sun.

duke15 · March 2006

I received the Consumer Reports Auto issue in the mail today, so I immediately looked up the RX-8. The picture looks different than the 2005, but in a way that it looks like it is an RX-8 with after market parts on it. The ground effects and spoiler are different than the appearance package and rear spoiler that were stock for 2005. It also has gold rims. I don't think it is a Shinka, but maybe some of you can look at the April 2006 Consumer Reports issue on page 61 and offer their opinions. I like the style of the 2005 that is in the show rooms now, I hope that they haven't changed it for 2006 - nothing that I have read so far states that they have. To make things more odd, they list the AT numbers as the 197 HP instead of the 213 (?) and they list it as a 4-spd vs the 6-spd.

BTW, it is a CR Recommended car.

Mazda RX-8

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