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Comments
I was thinking about asking my dealer to buy it, make it a certified pre-owned, and re-sell it to me.I may be able to get it from my dealer at a similar price but with an extended warranty. Thoughts?
DL
The interior and exterior fit and finish of the automobile was top notch, many of us commented on the narrow gaps between the body panels. The interior was very reminiscent of the current 9-5 with an additional DIC (Personalization Information Center) mounted above the dash and an in dash LCD screen (no navigation on first models). There is a 6 disc in dash CD player and an optional 6 disc trunk mounted CD changer.
The overall design is quite good looking. I do think it is break your neck gorgeous (very few cars are), but it looks as nice as any BMW or Mercedes sedan. The front is aggressive and the sides flow in a very European way. But it retains it's individuality. The doors have a solid sound when closing and the engine is definitely quieter than our 9-5's 3.0L. No word on the Viggen, and the hatchback will be replaced by the 9-3X in 2004 or so. Convertible is expected next April or so.
The design rates a B+, the fit and finish were an A, but I wish that they had finished out the trunk a little more (exposed speaker and other items).
i have a question for you about one of your messages in a closed discussion. sorry for using this as the medium, but i don't see any other way to do it.
please email me at tm55@usa.com
thanks!
Sounds like the 9-3 may be a strong competitor for BMW and Mercedes. Good news for Saab.
As I said on the hatchback board, the new engine is what bothers me. How well will this GM engine handle Saab turbocharging? I didn't stay around past five, so I didn't get to hear what the engine sounded like.
Last I had read, if sales are markedly improved Saab might bring back the hatchback in 2004. As for engines, the Linear will have 175hp, Aero and the Vector will share the same 210hp engine (available in January of 2003). 2004 there will be a higher output engine for the Vector. No one is saying for sure what the output would be like, but I am going to assume it will have atleast as much performance power as the 9-5 Aero.
Lenear will have the 5sp manual and 5sp auto.
Aero and Vector will have the 6sp manual and 5sp auto with sport-shift.
This is my first time here.
The base 9-3 will have 175 hp, 5 more than the base A-4. The mid 9-3 will be around 215 hp, the same as the IS300. I believe there will also be a 255 hp aero version as well.
With its unique styling, ergonomics, and reputation for safety, there is no reason the car will not compete. Provided, of course, it is executed properly.
While I appreciate your opinion......a few facts to back up my position.
2001 Model year sales for brands in the U.S.
Saab____________37,556 (18,374 of which are 9-3
Audi____________83,283
BMW_____________213,127
Mercedes Benz___206,638
10 month period in 2000 (by competing models)
Saab 9-3________16,397
Audi A4_________28,425
BMW 3 Series____71,422
Mercedes C Class___27,672
Volvo S60__________202 (NEW model late in year)
The majority of these cars are NOT 4 cylinder, nor are they turbo charged (with regards to the total sales). With regards to the competing models.....NONE are 4 cylinder or turbocharged (except the 1.8T Audi).
I still maintain my position about Saab having to consider the 6 cyl. and AWD at least as options.....or I believe they are destined to continue low sales....especially playing with the big boys. The numbers don't lie. Believe me, the new car looks great.....I hope it does well. Time will tell.
I will post updated numbers when I find them. I don't know if Saab will fare any better.
First, your figures show Saab with an ancient 9-3 actually improved its sales significantly in a one year period.
Secind, making carbon copies of the leader merely reminds potential buyers how much they want the leader. The IS300 is a nice BMW 3 clone. Look at its sales figures. It is far better to offer an alternative and catch the people with the money who do not want to buy the leader.
Saab hopes to sell 70k cars a year in the US by 05. With the three versions of the new 9-3 sedan, the new 9-5 sedan, wagons of both, and the new 9-3x which will come out in '05, I think they can do it. There is no need for Saab to follow what the others are doing with their 6s.
I didn't think the facts would do anything for you....but they remain just that.....FACTS.
Interesting that you compare the IS300 to the 3 Series. That is a fair comparison, seeing as they BOTH offer 6 cylinder powerplants.
Don't get me wrong....from what I had read about the new 9-3, I hope it does well....and I hope they do DOUBLE their sales.
In my comparison I had to use an ancient (but still current 9-3), and I also used the same year of the other vehicles as well. The larger number for 9-3 sales was based on a full 12 month year. The 2000 figures was for a 10 month time period. I would assume that those two numbers would be closer if a full 12 months was reported, so your stated increase in sales is, at best, a guess.
bigdaddycoats,
The horsepower rating I am seeing for the lesser engine is 175. In my opinion, still a bit on the low side to be placed in the group we have been discussing. You stated in an earlier post that you thought the entry level engine had 150hp, and you felt that was too low for this class of automobile. In my opinion, 175 isn't much better.
BTW.......I have been doing some research....offline....and a magazine I came across lists BOTH a 6 cylinder AND AWD as items that will be available at some point in the near future on the new 9-3. Good news to hear. Perhaps Saab (and GM) finally realize what they have to do to offer a comparable alternative.
Your initial claim was that to be a success, the 9-3 needs the hp of the V6. Then you provide sales figures or cars, some of which actually have 4 cylinder engines, others with V6s that either have lower or very similar hp to the 9-3. You repeat what I said, that the IS300 does have a V6, but you do not respond at all to my point that while the IS300 is a clone of the segment leading BMW, it has not sold well from day one.
IMO, the more important issues for Saab are to provide a solid, attractive, dependable 9-3, with the emphasis on ride, handling, and safety, while maintaining the distinct characteristics of the car.
Finally, your offline research brought you nothing new and some outdated information as well. I mentioned the 9-3X in my earlier post. That is the AWD vehicle Saab is planning. I believe the plans for the 6, however, were in connection with the proposed Cross-over, which Saab now says it will not make.
In any event, there is absolutely not plans for a V6 in the 9-3, which is the vehicle I have been discussing. What Saab does or does not do with the 9-5 or the 9-3X is somewhat beside the point, unless your point is to just say anything that comes up and declare yourself right.
But price is not the number one motivator in this market. For example, the car you site, the G35 is doing well, yet not as well as other more expensive competitors, including the 3 Series, the C Class, the A4, the CTS and the LS.
By the time someone is paying more than 28k for a car, subtle things begin to increase in importance. Because many of these are subjective - fun factor, appearance, type of ride, etc. - personality does matter.
It is too soon to tell with the G35, but IMO, the IS300 is definitely suffering for being too much like the 3 Series. Along with getting the price right, I believe the 9-3 has to distinguish itself from the competition. And turbo 4 cylinder is one of the things that buyers have always associated with Saab.
The car looks awesome in person. The rear definitely has a BMW look to it. They had a Linear model with the launch package on display. The interior is very beautiful - nice materials and ergonomics seem great.
So here are my thoughts and some info-
- inside seems to compare in size to the CTS, I even fit in the drivers seat with a sunroof and I'm 6'4".
- very comfortable, leather seems high quality.
- pricing is supposed to be slightly less than current model.
- on sale Oct. 15th, moved back from Oct. 1rst. convertible will arrive late spring 2003.
- in 2005 we may get an Aero 9-3 with 250hp+ V-6.
- fit and finish seemed to be very good.
All in all seemed to be a very nice car, can't wait to drive one. Better start saving my pennies now.
Vector 9-3 won't have a V-6. The whole 9-3 lineup is supposed to be I4 only. I am assuming that, like the Viggen, the Vector will have a high pressure turbo.
Linear -base
Arc- SE
Vector - Viggen?
Aero? - 2005 model with 2.8 turbo V6?
click on the link for the 9-3 and then images....
About Saab needing a V-6. I don't know about that. From what I gather Saab has been a leader in 4cyl. turbo technology for a while and it's somewhat of a tradition.
I like "different". I am a motorcyclist and ride a Buell. It's a sportbike with a Harley-Davidson engine. Very "different". They polarize people. Either they love it, or they despise it. There generally is no middle groung.
People always want things to conform to what the norm is, or what the competition is doing. I guess my tastes are more ecclectic. I like to see a company go their own way. If I wanted an A4 or 325i I would just buy one. But the new 9-3 is "different" and I for one like it.
DL
"After being thoroughly impressed with the manual-shift Vector, we climbed into a base 9-3 Linear equipped with the five-speed automatic. Although the Saab's comfortable seats and excellent ride quality remained, the Linear's lethargic nature when trying to accelerate left us cold. What at first seemed like severe turbo lag from the 175-horsepower low-pressure turbo engine was quickly diagnosed as transmission lag when mashing the throttle. Under part-throttle conditions, the problem wasn't nearly as obvious, but ask for a sudden burst of acceleration, from either a dead stop or when rolling at speed, and there is an almost painful delay between when the pedal hits the floor and when the car finally bolts forward."
Actually, I too would get a manual transmission, partly because they rarely get automatics right.
“..Our initial seat time came in a top-of-the-line Vector with the 210-horsepower high-pressure turbo engine and six-speed manual transmission ..” followed by “..After being thoroughly impressed with the manual-shift Vector, we climbed into a base 9-3 Linear equipped with the five-speed automatic. Although the Saab's comfortable seats and excellent ride quality remained, the Linear's lethargic nature when trying to accelerate left us cold. What at first seemed like severe turbo lag from the 175-horsepower ..”
Clearly, they are comparing a 210HP manual with a 175HP auto. That would explain part of the contrast, wouldn't you think?
Moreover, it is clear from your own quotation that your original claim that Edmunds had labelled the Saab "*very* lethargic" was an overstatement. The "very" was a blatant exaggeration on your side.
Bob: Say Joe, what engine do you have?
Joe: The Two-point-oh-lower-case-Tee.
Bob: Well, I have the Two-point-oh-capital-Tee.
I think saabs strongest selling points to me were the style, hatchback versatility, strong turbocharged engines, completely fun to drive(torque steer and all), near perfect ergonomics, and comfortable seats.
With the new saabs, they have kept a good style, lost the hatchback versatility, the engines are not as strong, supposedly gotten rid of the torque steer(which looses on the fun factor), screwed with the ergonomics(wierd buttons and displays now), and the seats, while I have not sat in them, do not look as comfortable anymore.
As for the new styling, it's nice enough, but I'm still in love with the old style. I'm not sure what it is about it, but it's timeless. Even after all these years it gives me warm fuzzies to look at it. :-)
And if you think about it, saying that you'd buy the previous style of a car, one that's nine years old, just means you're not gonna get tired of it and wanna trade it in on the next thing (see BMW, Mercedes, et al).
I am sure many will differ...but I'm bummed, cuz I really liked their much ballyhooed "quirkiness"...