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BTW, I have kinda of a silly question since this is my first automatic shift car. If I am travelling fast on highway and I (or my passenger) go crazy and push the stick to "Reverse" what would happen? In my old manual stick, there is a lock that prevents me from doing that.
Crunch crunch grind grind - at least that's what happens in Taurus' from Hertz!! Just kidding people.
More than likely, there is a positive stop between neutral and reverse. In most cars, you can move the shifter between D and N without the use of the shifter button but need to use the button between neutral and reverse. With the car parked, try to move the shifter into R from N and see if it goes.
I wouldn't recommend to try the same thing at higher speeds though.
Back to the warming up phase issue.
That a car is not accelerating as well when its engine block is ice cold is normal. This has mainly something to do with the viscosity of the engine oil at low temperatures and its higher friction.
Much thanks!
Thanks!
I had visited a couple of the local dealers in Dade and Broward (South Florida) but they had only three cars with manuals in their lots (combined). One of the dealers performed a dealer search on the spot but couldn't locate a car with my options. He did offer me a great deal for a car that he had on the lot with the options I wanted but was with Auto tranny. I said that I was only interested in a manual. Then he asked me to put the options in order of preference and said he was going to do a dealer search and he would call me on Monday with the findings. I called him Monday after lunch and said he would be back to me within an hour, but he seriously doubted that he could find a car with my specs. He never called me back that day (actually as of today he has not called me back). Seems like he didn't take me seriously and didn't want my business.
Tuesday I decided to call another dealer about 50 miles away just to see what they had in their lot. The salesman took my info and said he thought he didn't have anything in the lot, but that he was going to see what he could find. He called me back and said that he had access to a car with my specs and he could do a dealer trade. I said that I was considering the deal that I was offered and if he could match the discounts and lease rates. He responded that his manager was eager to move cars (I guess because it was the 28th of the month!!) and that he would do what he needed to do to get the sale. The salesman came back with some numbers, and I told him that the numbers were higher that what I was expecting. I ask him to give me his best offer, and he said that if he could get me the car for xxx, what I would do. I said that was the number I was looking for and "You got a deal". I was interested in leasing, so here's what I was offered: $390/month (including 7%tax), $995 due signing, 36 months @ 12k miles/year. The car has Launch, Touring, 17" wheels and is manual.
The car should be ready for pick today in the evening, so if there are no surprises I should be driving my new SAAB very soon. Wohoooo!!!
I'll post an update as soon everything is completed!!
Also took my a few days to figure out lights need to be in "on" positoin for all the backlights on dash to illuminate. From the temp. control knobs down were not on until I turned lights on.
Zeroch - wife's 9-3 squeaks too a little when pulling in at slow speed to the garage. No biggie, brakes fantastic on the road.
Hungshy - About your rear lock problem. I may have missed your original post, but could it be that the child safety slide on the back door is set to disable the back switch?
Also, locks are really pretty simple, so you should get it back to the dealer and make them do it right if the above isn't the problem.
As for warmup, I would just take it easy on the revs until the temp needle moves up some. They may counsel against warming up in place to avoid someone poisoning themselves in their garage that's closed up.
Cermedes- Warmup: True, it warms up faster if you drive, but you're also putting more revs on the engine vs. idling, so that pretty much cancels out the faster warmup with faster wear on the poorly lubricated cylinders.
Telematics: The reason they didn't put the GPS stuff on is that surveys show that only about 1% of cars are bought with them. It goes up in higher priced cars, sure, but they may have made a decision not to waste engineering assets at rollout worrying about that. They are busy trying to get new models out to get business back on track, and Saab is a small company. I suspect that lack of a GPS nav system wouldn't be a big factor for the vast majority of drivers. Read any car mag, most people don't use them or dont' like using them. They suggest learning to read a map and making a few route notes before you leave. Unless you're a salesman making calls or day or doing deliveries, I think they're just a cool toy, anyway. I owned an expensive Garmin handheld unit and never really could find any reason to use it, so I sold it. And I have to look up addresses in my business every day. The map was just faster and easier. And from what I hear and see online, the routes the sytems make for you are rarely the best way to get anywhere. Just the limitations of the computer mind.
Massappeal - I put in 6x9 Infinity reference 3 ways. Helps balance a lot, but still lacks low bass. I guess there is some sort of filter further up the chain. When the car becomes more popular, I will check into improving it.
Wmguan? - Soft touch? No, all plastic. Why? Are you planning on sitting on the dash or leaning against it while napping? It is plastic, but it looks good and I think better than some of the others. And unless I'm touching it, looks is what counts.
Peter 777- no vibrations here.
The 1st time we took the car to the dealer they provided us with a loaner Nissan. When we bought the Saab, we were told we'd get another Saab. I can't really complain though since they did give a car. Never got that with our Honda's.
As for the color, we went with the Silver.
Couple of questions:
1. How the heck do you do for a key chain for the FOB?
2. Has anyone looked into integrating a cell phone into the Infotainment system? There is a phone option with Onstar but that requires a seperate phone number. Is there a way to use your current cell through the system?
Thanks!
Any other information in the installation of the speakers would be greatly appreciated.
Also, have you been able to have the dealer program anything such as: horn sounding when you arm the car, automatic locking when the exceeds a certain mph? Or, anything else?
Thanks for your help!
Thanks for the response. Ha, no, I'm not planning on leaning on it. But while it is true that the original functional purpose of a padded dash disappeared with front airbags, the fact remains that most consider a hard plastic dash a negative in a near-luxury or luxury vehicle.
Of course, it's only one small detail and should not be a deal-breaker. But I'm also happy to disagree with you that while the dash isn't thickly padded, it actually is, at least partly, soft touch, like Volvo's. The darker plastic shroud around the instrument cluster and console are hard plastic, but the dash console behind it and stretching to the glove box have thin padding and thus "give" for that semi-luxurious feel.
So it's all good and I certainly think that's a positive at this price range.
I have no idea when some of these will expire, some may already be gone.
- $1,000 incentive on the Launch Package, as mentioned here before.
- $1,500 incentive if you do not use any special Saab financing or leasing. Good for folks paying partly or fully in cash. $2,500 off!
Special lease deals of varying types. Some expired 1/31 but there'll probably be more.
Question: Invoices show a Saab advertising fee of $150 and a $130 prep & handling fee. Is this really in Saab invoices, or is it just in a phony invoice that I've heard of some (not Saab) dealers making?
Thanks!
I sent car to dealer for door lock quick check up. I stand on site to watch them fixed the door. It's really interesting to see one person tried to fix it and no idea at all. Then he brought another one also no idea. Then they both went brought higher level tech to see it together. Like a brain storm meeting to discuse why this lock can't be operated by remote. Finally they come to asked me how the situatin happend at the beginning.... Then they called saabusa for tech advice. took it like hour and half to figure how to fix it now. But they told me this is just temporary fixed. I need to send the car back nect week for wiring check through. They also will provide me the loaner car next week.... What a big story about the door lock.
I think that I am happy with dealer's service. At least I can open and close the door with remote now.
http://www2.saabusa.com/leasen/default.asp?m=93&t=l&src=9- 3s
With it you can't use certain discounts, like the $1,500 incentive that was in effect last month and may be continuing to this month too. The $1,000 Launch Package discount should still be there and combinable with the lease, however.
The link in post #835 has more details on the $999 down, $299/month deal. I'm afraid it is only for 10k miles annually, not 12k, and it is indeed for the base vehicle without any options (e.g. Launch package, Touring package, automatic, heated seats, sport package).
Higher mileages will cost more. The 10k miles price goes up significantly from $299 for equipped vehicles, to around the mid-three hundred range depending on options and what kind of deal you can strike on the vehicle value to be capitalized.
Nevertheless, I've found the leasing to be pretty attractive and there definitely seems to be some subsidizing in there. Part/most of that subsidy is paid for the fact that if you lease, you cannot get the $1,500 incentive (which only applies if you don't use Saab Financing for loans or leases). So that $1,500 is being applied to discount the lease. However, you do get the $1,000 incentive on the Launch Package if you lease.
http://www.gmsupplierdiscount.com/pdfs/supnc_2003.pdf
Hi. Isn't that document specific to GM-supplier discounts?
The $1,000 discount that I mentioned is not a GM-supplier discount but a general incentive to the dealers -- I think it has something to do with the Launch Package.
The $1,500 discount I mentioned is apparently some incentive that can be used if one elects not to use Saab discounted financing (leasing).
I could not find any information on either the $1,000 or $1,500 incentives on Edmunds or Cars.com! Wish there was a way to better identify this!
But they are (were? don't know the expiration dates) legitimate. I'm not a GM supplier, and the dealer I spoke too the last week of January was ready to give me the $1,000 discount on top of the near-invoice pricing we were discussing -- if I leased. Or, he offered that if I bought the vehicle for invoice - $2,500 + some small margin above invoice, I could do that as well so long as I used my own financing.
Getting a $2,500 discount on purchase, or a $1,000 discount alongside a subsidized lease, on a vehicle priced near invoice before discounts is a very good deal. Especially when it's for such a fine vehicle!
I would bet that the $1,500 incentive for non-discount-financed purchases is still on. Why? Because the subsidized lease deal is still on. They're really one and the same; with the lease, the $1,500 is used to subsidize the lease (behind the scenes, not in the lease docs, reflected more in the low money factor/APR).
TIA.
needsashave: still looking huh? I think I've contacted about 8 dealerships around the area and all of them piss me off. Half of them give me the feeling that they aren't even serious about selling and the latter are all too incessant with their pushing.
Ultimately you still pay more for leasing but it has certain advantages. They're better explained in the leasing forums here but they include getting a better vehicle for a lower monthly payment, managing your current cash flow, and reducing potential risk if you are questioning whether or not the vehicle is what you want long-term. With the new-ness of the 9-3, that third item may be big -- a 36 month lease may let you if the 9-3 will be spectacular over time or a pumpkin. Plus you get free scheduled maintenance over that time too!
(Obviously the leasing negatives apply here ... it still costs more, you have to make sure you get gap insurance, don't go over the mileage limit or they'll really mess with you, and don't get the vehicle really beat up. Also, I think you'll find yourself not wanting to accessorize the vehicle since they have virtually no value at the end of the lease.)
Some quotes I got have the residual at 54%, which isn't great, but it may actually be optimistic given that Saabs don't seem to hold their value well.
Try calling a dealer and say that you've been talking to another dealership and you were offered the $1,000+$1,500 incentives, but now want to talk price with them. If they pretend to have not heard of it, they're either lying or the incentives really doesn't exist. If they're on the up-and-up and the deal is real, they'll go, "yeah, those are really good deals, huh?"
I had thought the non-financing incentive was $1,000 as well, based on posts here. But I'm not sure who/what the original source was? My source for the $1,500 was a local dealer. I don't think he was making it up because he seemed fine with my acquisition method either way -- I could lease it with the subsidized deal, or I could get financing from my credit union (or their non-Saab banks) and buy it for $1,500 less than the lease value.
My only question is whether the true Saab invoice actually includes a Saab advertising cost and a prep & handling fee. Edmunds does not list these costs but Edmunds also says that they can be legitimate parts of an invoice. Is it possible that some folks here who say they got $2,000 below invoice (Edmunds invoice - $1,000 - $1,000), actually got the $2,500 (invoice with advertising and prep included - $1,000 - $1,500), and their price happened to net out to look like $2,000 off Edmunds invoice?
I'll have to see a real invoice to be sure.
Good luck! I really like the vehicle, it fits my own buying priorities really well (below $30k loaded, very high level of safety, some degree of luxury, some sportiness, some cargo room, good features, and at least "average" reliability). Well, hopefully the last one will be fulfilled!
I compared leasing vs. buying in my case. There's no question that with a good lease, through a three-year period, the out-of-pocket will be less with the lease than the purchase. This, so long as you don't go past the mileage allowance and return the vehicle in good condition. There is a $350 disposition fee if you return the vehicle; make sure you know what the cost will be.
Over the long run, however, leasing will be more expensive. E.g. running two 3-year leases consecutively will cost more than buying one vehicle and financing it. Even though you pay for maintenance after 3 years on the Saab, ownership still ends up cheaper because there is at least some resale value after six years. Of course, with leasing you have two new vehicles in that time rather than just one.
Make sure you live in a state that only applies sales tax to the cap cost reduction and monthly payment on your lease. There are a few states that make you pay the sales tax on the entire vehicle amount.
Like you, I was very seriously considering a Passat. A GLS 1.8T was my second choice. VW has 3.5% financing for up to 60 months right now, and dealers are willing to give good prices. The 9-3 is sportier than the Passat, perhaps as good as you can get with a FWD sedan. It also has more safety features than the Passat, which is due for a brand new version next year.
To me, Saab dealers have to discount the 9-3 well because some folks like me would buy an Audi A4 1.8T quattro if it was closer in price. Less effective power and tighter accommodations, but a higher degree of luxury and AWD and better resale.
http://www.hondanews.com/forms/acura/TSX/
I just heard about this, priced at 25 to 30k fully loaded. Aimed to go head to head with the 325, saab 9-3, and Audi 1.8t..Looks pretty nice. Hits showrooms in April as a 2004 model. I was set to go for the Saab, but this has made me pause a bit..
Being FWD like the Saab, it won't have the driving dynamics of, say, a 3-series. The Saab may be the best-handling FWD sedan out there, we'll see how the TSX does.
The TSX will be almost certainly be more reliable and have better resale than the 9-3.
Knowing Acura dealers, they will try to gouge on the TSX price initially and then try to keep the price at MSRP for as long as they can (see the TL's first 18 months, and the MDX's first two+ years). That should make the price comparison more than just comparing MSRP's.
It finally adds side-curtain airbags, which the TL currently doesn't have. While the Linear's interior isn't full-luxury, I doubt if the TSX's will too based on other Acura vehicles (they always seem to be below comparable Lexus and European vehicles).
I still have some skepticism that the Japanese vehicles really compete as well as the European ones on safety. Honda has done very well in focusing on crash tests but it's questionable if they've addressed a number of other areas that are not currently measured by tests. E.g. whiplash reduction, seat back strength, etc. Indeed, there is currently an NHTSA investigation into relatively recent model Honda/Acura sedans on problems with the seat back pins potentially causing a collapse.
Also, and i was surprised, the interior looks quite nice and pretty high quality - we'll see what it looks like in person.
I bet it'll be a good vehicle, but whether or not it's better than the 9-3 will come down to one's priorities.
Notice that the new TSX engine is typical Honda: 200 hp looks good, but the engine is only 166 lbs of torque (the basic Linear is almost the reverse).
The Acura navigation system is excellent for those who want a nav system.
I've already seen complaints from some Honda/Acura fans who wonder why someone would buy the TSX over a $25k Accord EX V6, which has 240hp/212lbs torque in a roomier platform. Obviously the focus of the vehicles are different and the TSX should handle better, but we'll see.
Will the Vector really sell at $35k? With the discounts mentioned in previous posts, you can buy a Linear for about $28k. Still, the TSX will be cheaper.
anyway, after I drove Saab and become the current owner. They seem to me like looking back to the past....
For those trying to estimate how the lease numbers would look like by adding options and more miles, the only thing that changes is the residual. The money factor is the same regardless of the options and mileage selected. The residuals are as follows (The residuals are always calculated using the MSRP, not the final sale price): 54% @10,000 miles/year (this the rate advertised), 53% @12,000 miles/year (I was quoted this rate), and 52% @15,000 miles/year (what I got). If you want to run some numbers and get a good estimate, I found the lease calculator in this site to be very useful: http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm.
And did I mention that the car is stunning... I can’t stop staring at it. Every time a fiend asks me what car I got and I tell them a Saab, I get the are-you-using-drugs face coupled with “they are nice cars”. Once they see it, they are all astonished by the elegance of the car and immediately comes the “Your car is awesome”, now coupled with a smiling face.
I picked up an accessory brochure this weekend from the local Saab dealer. It shows a Navi screen in three or four shots where they show accessory wood trim etc.
So I asked the dealer, they said the Navi system is not and won't be available on the 93....maybe for MY05.
That's two years away! I hope that Saab's customer service is correct, for the Navi to be available for 04.
Even that's sad since you can get a lousy
Honda Accord with a Navi already today.
As far as leasing a 9-3 costing less...that depends. If you're going to switch cars in 3 years anyway, maybe. If you always trade in and take the hit vs. selling it yourself, maybe. If you really do drive only the 10-12K miles allowed, maybe. And if you get a really good lease deal, maybe.
But usually leasing is more expensive in the long run. One reason people in the car biz love leasing. As far as comparing leasing to buying based on residual history of the OLD 9-3, that would be a mistake. The new car is a superior design, and the old car, despite it's charms, was distinctly inferior in areas the masses of people look at, to its competition. So I would expect an '03 model to hold its value a little better if it turns out to be reliable, which might throw off your math.
Is your monthly payment of $407 before or after sales tax? Thanks.
I agree with you that this vehicle is very underrated. A lot of people are surprised to hear that you have a Saab, and they're thinking "weird, quirky, unreliable, strange-looking, not sporty, what the heck was he thinking?" Only if they get more information and/or ride/drive the vehicle do they understand.
And ironically, the previous 9-3 and the current 9-5 are both "above average" in Consumer Reports, better than the Volvos that some folks compare them too (and hopefully the first-year model will be okay).
I agree that resale on this 9-3 will probably be better than the previous 9-3, but I'm still concerned over potentially low demand. E.g. the soft economy, combined with the fact that the vehicle is already discounted $2,500 (purchase price) after it's been on the market for a few months (and some discounts came earlier). Usually, new European introductions get only modest discounts for the first year, even in a tough market.
If the resale value does turn out surprisingly well, that may benefit leasees. Current residual values are computed at 52% - 54% of MSRP. If the vehicle exceeds that, it makes purchasing it at lease-end more attractive. Though it's almost always more expensive to lease+buy than to just buy. And more expensive to just lease vs. buy.
needashave: I've been contacting the exchange, gartner, and flikkema who are all giving me quotes of 27ish for auto, launch, heated. I need to get my credit cleared(as I moved to the states only three years ago and lack a solid history) before I start negotiating hardcore.
I was under the impression you were going with the exchange. What made you lean towards shopping with Patrick's?
I have a friend who is also interested in purchasing a Saab, although she wants to wait for the arc. Gets me thinking...if both of us were to rush in and buy two at one time, would the dealers give better prices? hm, if so I hope she decides to go with a linear instead of waiting.
One reason I ask is because Saab is already offering large discounts for a vehicle that is barely out of the gate. That's not something that's typical of European luxury or near-luxury cars.
Just curious, I'm not bashing the vehicle. The new vehicle, especially with discounts, is a very attractive proposition.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/030203/autos_saab_table_1.html