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Dodge Ram: Problems & Solutions
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Comments
Where is it leaking? Is it the sector shaft seal?
Dusty
(Oh yes, the obvious thought would be to question my driving habits, but I assure you I do not ride the brakes, and all my trailers have their own brakes except for my boat trailer, plus I only pull trailers approx. 2 times a week, the rest is "normal" city street driving.
I REALLY like the new 1500 Quad Cab 4wd, but am a little gun shy because of the tranny.
Has anyone had issues/experience with the new 1500's transmission?
Thanks
David
But the 2002 Ram has pushed me to the limit.
Theres a ticking sound from under the hood,
one dealer says it origintes from the vacuum canister and nothing can be done. The dealer that I purchased the veh. from cannot hear anything.
The truck has shut off 2x while at traffic lights,
and I get 10 -12 mpg on the highway.
My truck is at the Dodge dealership as we speak for repair.
The dealership suggest that I let them drive my truck for 200 -300 miles and I'll have to buy the gas. Of course I refused to pay for the gas.
The service mgr. tried to convince me that the sticker states that the truck should get 11 mpg..
When we looked at a sticker it stated 17-22 mpg hwy.
Of course the back peddling started.
I'm so busy venting that I probably didn't mention how much I love the owning the truck.
But the dealership that I'm dealing w/ sure will try to make a person feel dumb.
I have talked to various transmission repair people. I have one, in fact, in the family. The consensus is that Dodge truck automatic failures were rarely seen until Dodge began using an overdrive system. These would be the A-518 and A-618 units and the time frame for trouble extends from 1985 through 1994 and the newer 45 & 46RE transmissions.
During this time frame there were several complaints about delayed engagements and shifts on these transmissions. It was determined that this problem was caused by ATF siphoning out of the torque converter after shutdown and was predominantly a problem in cold weather climates. Chrysler addressed this problem by field retrofitting a "drain back valve" in the transmission cooling return line. This prevented ATF from draining out of the torque converter.
However, the drainback valve inserted a new problem, that being that it was easily clogged or sometimes became frozen closed in extremely low temperatures which cut off fluid to the transmission. I have been told that in as many as 50% of Dodge truck transmission repairs all that was done was remove this drain back valve from the cooling line. In others, a complete drainback valve replacement was performed.
Other Dodge truck transmission related problems appear to be the result of some solenoids in the electronic versions that either stick or fail, and an even smaller percentage related to corroded or faulty electrical wiring to these solenoids.
Another problem is the use of the incorrect transmission fluid. Dodge specifies a "7176" ATF which contains special anti-friction modifiers. Use of MERCON 4 or 5, which is commonly used in Dodge truck transmissions, will lead to failure.
I was told by one transmission shop that Dodge truck transmissions rarely fail because of catastrophic component failure, but more from contaminated ATF, either from lack of maintenance or severe duty use such as snow plowing. Indeed, the Consumers Report data shows more trouble for the Dodge 4x4. GMs, for example, have several hard failures such clutch desintegration, output shaft wear, seal failures and sun gears breaking. Fords have a multitude of seal problems.
As I read posts from others on the GMs or Ford's F-series I have noted a fair amount of transmission related woes as well. I also note that the vast majority of so-called "reports" of bad Dodge truck transmission comes people who don't own a Dodge.
Now regarding Consumers Reports (CR), there are several things that need to be understood about the data.
First, the CR data reflects what is reported by owners, supposedly based on actual experience.
Second, the reporting form used by CR asks to list "problem areas." Thus the input from these forms is only a reflection of a PROBLEM as defined by the person filling out the form. It is not an indicator of the severity of a problem, or whether there was actually a problem at all. In this respect a simple noise caused by a loose transmission cooling line will have the same gravity as a complete transmission failure.
It is this area that, in my opinion, has gotten Dodge trucks the so-called "black marks" in past CR data. Upon inspection of the Dodge truck TSBs I noticed the vast majority addressed non-debilitating issues, such as noise or erratic shifts.
Ambiguousness in the CR reporting method doesn't stop there.
The so-called "black mark" method is highly inaccurate. Consumers Reports rates by the little circle method that represents a percentage RANGE of reported problems per 100 vehicles: full red = 2.0%; half red = 2.0 to 5.0%; no color (white) = 5.0% to 9.3%; half black = 9.3% to 14.8%; and full black = more than 14.8% (you will note a statistical overlap).
J.D. Power, Runtzheimer and others base their quality reports on the number of problems per 100 vehicles. However, CR does not report the actual number of problems as most people think, but the deviation from AVERAGE reported problems, represented in percentage.
So because of the ambiguious method that CR uses and without knowing the actual numerical figure of problems reported per 100 vehicles, it is possible that one vehicle with 9.3 problems reported per 100 vehicles will get a solid white (average) rating, while another with 9.31 problems will get the terrible half-black circle. But the actual difference would be less than one-half of a vehicle per 1000 vehicles.
Still another problem. The CR transmission data does not differentiate between manual and automatic. So it is impossible to know which transmission is driving the reported problem number. For that matter, there are six different transmissions used across the RAM line.
I have now talked to about 40 Dodge truck owners and I have had only two report that they have had a transmission problem of any type. One was a "failure" on 1994 RAM 4x4. The other was a Dakota manual transmission. The RAM 4x4 was operated by snow plow owner who admitted that he did not perform the routine 25,000 mile fluid changes. The Dakota owner reported poor shifting when cold and a rattle noise.
Chrysler significantly addressed long term reliability problems with the "RE" series in 1998. Most of the changes enhanced fluid flow during overdrive operation. The newer 45RFE is a different design and is being reported as extremely reliable. If you get a 4.7 in a RAM 1500, it will likely be the 45RFE.
Good Luck,
Dusty
My 02 QC 4.7L(auto 45RFE) after about 7000 miles seemed to shutter after coming to a stop with the truck still in drive and my foot on the brake. Not a constant shutter but a kin to the vibrations you would get if a large truck would pull up next to you. Also started to notice that when the sutter happens the RPM's are at 500 with slight fluctuations down. Only seems to happen after the engine is a operating temperature. Also when this occurs if you stop and put the truck into reverse you get the "normal" solenoid sound followed by a brief grind of the gears. Only when going into reverse.
The dealer put a DBR on the truck and said that the engine hit all targeted RPM's however it was in the shop and not up to temperature. Dealer said that sound heard was the solenoid, went back to reproduce sound for Service Manager and he would like the tranny guy to listen to the sound on Wednesday.
Could there be a link to the low RPM's and the gear noise. And which should I address first.
The dealer stated that once the test shows everything ok that they are not there to trace my problems and to drive it until the "annoyance" becomes more of a problem.
Thanks For your Help.
Tom
Whatever.
I would never have noticed it but now that I have, it concerns me. The transmission has a small hesitation after being placed into drive. I did not expect this truck to react to inputs like an Accord.
8000 miles into this and I am a very satisfied owner.
Dusty-Should I be concerned?
First, Lariat1 is correct that a certain degree of "clunk" is normal. This varies by design and manufacturing tolerances of both the differential and the auto transmission. As I recall Chrysler products of old did this more than any other car or truck and I don't remember seeing any axle failures on them. A tight set of side gears and close ring & pinion mesh can actually cause more trouble. "Knuckles" is an ambiguious term to me since there are steering knuckles, and it is a very old term for U-joints on 4x4s.
Too high of an engine idle speed or incorrectly set throttle pressure at the transmission can cause or aggravate this symptom. Too loose of a ring & pinion gear mesh in the differential will also cause this as well as slop in the pinion bearings.
I would try to find other examples of vehicles similiar to yours and see if there is any difference. It could be that both the axle components and transmission are at the extreme ends of their manufacturing tolerances. Good luck with your dealer.
I'm not sure about your problem, Peppe1. Transmission shudder is usually the result of a problem in the torque converter. We had two replaced in our Chevy van, although the second one failed in a different manner. My daughter's Ford Explorer has had two torque converters replaced with the same symptoms as you've got. However, to the best of my knowledge the Chrysler 45RFE doesn't have a torque converter failure history. In fact, older Dodge transmission problems related to shudder were most often associated with expired ATF or, even more commonly, the wrong ATF. Still, I seem to recall some Dakota/Durangos having a similiar problem, but I'm not sure which transmission (could be the 45RE versions) and they may be related to the torque converter solenoid sticking. I'm afraid I'm not much help to you on this one.
Regards,
Dusty
I have a 2002 1500 ram quad cab with the 4.7l and auto tranny. I am very pleased with my new ram that i got in sept 01, trading in a 96 1500 club cab with a 5.9L and auto tranny.
I read a few messages here and have had some of the same problems. I have taken all my problems in and have had all of them fixed except one, and this is with the transmission. Since day one when the engine is warm, the a/c is off, and usually after driving at highway speeds and coming to stoplights the engine would pull down to about 300RPM and idle roughly. It never died until about 7000 miles when my wife was driving it. A week later it died on me in stop and go driving. I took it to the dealer and had their tech ride with me (this was back in feb). He had his DRB plugged into the computer and checked all parameters. The problem appeared and he could find nothing wrong with the engine. This prompted a call to Chyrsler Engineering and I returned my vehicle to them for four days so they could look at it. When I picked it back up the Trans filter/oil had been replaced and a TSB on updating the PCM had been accomplished. My service adviser had told me that the engineers believe the problem is coming from an engagement of the lock-up torque converter. ( this new tranny 45rfe is designed to lockup with a loss of pressure instead of pressure being used to apply it) They believed the problem was due to low pump output. This halfway fixed my problem. It has not died and now has 9500 miles. But it will still occassionally idle rough and pull down to 350-400 RPM. I tried the "lock up theory" out. When it started to pull down I put the tranny in N and it immediately cleared up. The service advisor has told me the Engineers are working this problem and are fairly confident that it is in the computer program. I check back in every month to see if they have the fix. Hope this helps out some who have this problem and confirms the same problem happening with others.
Mine has only happened when:
The engine is warm
Has been operated at highway speed and then into stop and go traffic
The A/C is NOT on.
Also there was a discussion when at low speeds the tranny slips or bangs. The service advisor had said that most new chrysler auto trannies would do this because they are "confused" for a short period of time. Mine has done this when coasting through stoplights, making a turn (slowing to between 10 and 30MPH) and then getting on the throttle. It "bangs" (not hard, but harsher than normal) into the proper gear (usually to downshift to second instead of staying in third). He assured me that this is "normal" and no harm will come from it.
I apologize for the length of this message, but hopefully it is a balance between enough info and brevity.
Thanks,
Tom
TSB #18-029-01. It comes up as a fix for oil pressure gage and 5.9l cold weather driveability. Chyrsler had the service department do it anyway and it has stopped it form dying...so far! The only other thing that I noticed it changed was the oil pressure gage. It used to move (read higher when engine was cold, lower when hot, and would increase when you revved it up) Now the Oil Pressure gage goes to one needle past halfway and stays there all the time. Was told that it slowed down the updates from the pressure sensor. Let me know if they fix yours. Just checked with Chyrsler two weeks ago and they still don't have a fix.
By the way, has yours died yet?
Steve
My truck stalled only once and that was in my driveway.
My truck was made in Warren, Michigan in November 01 how about yours?
I'm a little confused with the tow package option. I know the book states it has a ClassIV hitch receiver, Engine and Automatic transmission cooling, 7 pin wiring harness with 7-4pin adapter, and a 750 amp battery. I agree with everything except the Engine and Transmission cooling. Looked at several trucks on the lot and all radiators (the 5.9l included) are the same. Did find a bigger tranny cooler on the 5.9l with tow package. Went to the parts department and the radiators are the SAME whether you have the 4.7l or 5.9l with or without the tow package. The tranny cooler was the same on the 4.7l with or without the tow package, although the 5.9l with tow package was almost twice the size! Don't know if dodge is pulling a fast one with the engine/tranny cooling on the 4.7l but can't find any differences!
Steve
My suspicions are that the 45RE coupled to the 360 engine will probably be the most susceptible to failure. Of course, how the vehicle has been used and maintained will have a significant effect on reliability.
02ram is correct about the transmission fluid used by Chrysler. The specified fluid is Chrysler 7176. This ATF contains anti-friction modifiers and the transmission is designed around this fluid. I know that some transmission shops and auto mechanics will tell you that Mercon 4 will work just fine, but I don't believe it. One shop here told me that they use the Chrysler 7176 exclusively in Chrysler products and have never had one come back. They even stated that they use it in Ford transmissions to cure torque converter shudder problems.
The drain back valve which is located in the cooling return line are known to be a problem, especially in cold weather and with transmissions that contain contaminated fluid. These valves are easily clogged, apparently, and that can lead to loss of pump pressure and resulting failure.
I have talked to people who have 360 engines in 4x4s that have never had a problem, even after 150,000 miles. This makes me believe that there IS NOT an inherent design or component problem with these transmissions. However, these same people have been religious about transmission fluid and filter changes.
The use of overdrive when towing heavy loads is another cause of premature transmission failures.
Good luck,
Dusty
Decided not to push the low RPM issue until later. So all seems to be fine.
Did anyone get paper work for the 7/100,000 from the dealer or in the mail after buying your truck.
Is this right - or are my ears full of wax?
So if you buy a used Ram - what is the coverage?
Dodge has already made the decision not to take the Allison. Dodge instead decided to manufacture their own, which is why the automatic will be delayed for the new deisel.
Dusty
Of course, it is fairly easy to see, if not immediately obvious to some, that Consumers' Reports have established a moral based system for judging cars and other items. The result is the 'good,' 'bad,' 'very bad' method of conveying reliability data instead of a data-point number. This is expressive of a philosophy that contains a high degree of contempt for ordinary people, who without the "expert advice" from a consumer advocate would not be able to make a wise decision.
This, I think, is the result of the often zealous, religious-like collectivist, anti-commercialist view indelibly established by CU's founders, and an organization that goes beyond mere product evaluation and advocates political positions, for example with respect to the environment or health coverage.
Best regards,
Dusty
Here's what they are now saying: "found play internal in gear box". They want $825.00 to replace the gear box.
Have read some discussion here about sloppy "steering", but nothing conclusive about design flaws or design problems, and actually more discussion/opinions that have to do with the type of tires!
Dusty, you seem to have done extensive research on several subjects here; would you mind sharing with me where you do your research. I sure don't want to give the dealer $825.00 for a new gear box and then find out that isn't the problem after all; or that this gear box has been defective since I have had the truck and that this is a "latent" design flaw with the Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 and should have been corrected from the beginning.....
Thanks in advance for your time and efforts.
Pat
Not sure I can help you much here. From what I know about that vintage RAM 4x4s is the track bars are replaced often. I don't know if this is related to the symptom you're experiencing. I seem to be under the impression that a worn track bar will cause a noise, but I'm not sure. I would think that loose steering could also be a symptom.
Chrysler used to make their own gear boxes, but would also use Saginaw boxes as well. I've seen a fair number of Saginaw boxes with worn lower sector shaft bearings and blown lower seals. This would cause a wander problem on A-frame trucks and vans. Your 4x4 has a different front end design, so again I'm not sure how that type of problem would translate to a symptom.
It's difficult to judge how much play you have and the definition will vary from person-to-person. But I assume its bad enough for you to notice it. Does your gear box have a sector shaft adjustment screw? If it does, it might be worth a try. How about other front end components? Nothing wrong with getting a second opinion.
You might want to attempt the replacement your self. A rebuilt should be available through your local auto parts jobber at a much reduced cost. It shouldn't be a very difficult job, especially on a truck.
Best regards,
Dusty
I'm just worried that I'm going to have some odd short somewhere that is going to strand me in the desert somewhere. Thoughts?
I would say to 15-20 psi. As soon as i hit the gas its right back where it should be. The truck has about 80K miles and this is my first abnormal condition, its been a great vehicle
Based on my memory the 15-20 psi at idle is a little low for a 318 (or any Chrysler engine for that matter). This would be in spec for many other engines, but Chrysler's always had very good oil pressure by design. My wife had a Dodge that idled at 40 PSI warm even after 120,000 miles.
What I seem to recall in the past -- and would be my first suspect anyways -- is a faulty oil pressure sending unit.
Another more likely suspect would be diluted oil, either from a coolant leak or some other reason. In the past I've seen fuel pump diaphragms leak and put fuel into the crankcase, thereby diluting the oil. I don't think this is possible on your '97 since it is fuel injected, I think.
The oil pump pressure relief valve could be stuck or sticking, although I would think you'd see low pressure at higher RPMs. Or the oil filter could be clogged.
You could have a leak between the oil pump head and the main bearing cap. I've seen this on a few Buicks many years ago.
Just a few quick ideas. Good luck and let us know what you find.
Regards,
Dusty
thanks for the advice so far, it is much appreciated.
On another board I subscribe to some people have been replacing their box with the one for 95 RAMs, it actually has a better feel to it and is a LOT cheaper (when I looked it was about $200 instead of $700) Also the AGR box seems to work pretty well. Lastly Dodge is having lots of problems with Pittman Arms (on 2wd and 4wd - I replaced mine with a Moog Part) and also Track bars on the 4wds that cause loose steering.
He did say that the track bars on 4x4 Dodge Rams were a common item up through '98, after which they revised the component and have improved longevity.
He says they haven't seen any Dodge Ram steering gear boxes go bad, however those are manufactured by Saginaw Gear and they are occasionally a problem in GM trucks (we've replaced one of those, too).
Regards,
Dusty
There is a problem with the welds at the base of the rear bed supports, at the bottom of the taillight assemblies. When this weld weakens or fails, the bed will widen the opening and your tailgate is at risk to come off, held in check only by the safety cables. The problem occurs if your bed moves a lot - shifting heavy loads, slide-in camper usage, off-road flexing, and chassis torquing (running wheels up on curbs or other high objects twisting the chassis and bed).
This happened to my 96 3500 10 days ago, and after some investigation and inquiry with several Dodge Ram owners clubs, I found that trucks as new as 2001s are also suffering this problem.
The only repair is a re-weld, although temporary fixes can be accomplished by attaching ratchet straps at the rerarmost stake pockets to "pull" the bedsides back together.
If your tailgate cutlines look wider than normal, this needs to be checked by a competent body shop, or if you're inclined, you can brace and weld it yourself.
kcram
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The vehicle has 30K miles.
I have been having a rough idle, stalling,and revving up issue on my 02 Ram 1500 QC 4.7L/auto.
The rough idle has happened since new (purchased 15 Sep 01). Died two months later and has died at least three times since then. It has also revved up to about 900-1,000 RPM twice, causing truck to lurch forward. (yes my foot was on he brake). I've noticed it only does this when:
The A/C is NOT on
Pulling up to a stop light or stop sign after running it on the highway
I now have 11,900 miles and have taken it to the dealership and kept them posted on all problems. the dealership service dept has been outstanding, they have changed the tranny filters/fluid because chrysler thought it was a premature lockup of the torque converter and flashed the PCM with an update in Feb. This took care of the dying.... for awhile. Now it is back and getting more consistent. Last week they hooked up a "copilot" to my vehicle. (It is a recorder for the PCM) I was able to get it to idle rough ( pull down to 200-300) and turn it back to them.
I have been researching message boards on Edmunds, pickuptruck.com, and allpar.com and have seen this complaint come up frequently.
Today my service dept told me chyrsler came out with a memo stating they know about this problem and are working it. They believe it is a computer/evap problem and there is no time frame for a fix.
I believe this problem is a safety issue and contacted Chyrsler cust. serv. I told them the same and asked for a "timeline" for a fix. I Also contacted the NHTSA about this.
If ANYONE is having this problem, PLEASE contact your service dept and get this written up. I don't know if it is happening on all, but there are a lot of posts. My service dept has only had a couple of these complaints but it could be that most everyone is using their A/C constantly or that it has only happened once or twice.
Overall I'm extremely happy with my new QC and it's safety features,but since I have children, I am concerned about this idle problem. Please post if anyone is experiencing this.
However when coming to a stop the last down shift with my foot on the brake seems to cause the engine to rev too 900/1000 rpm's but this does not happen after I stop.
You are right about this only happening when the AC is off. When it is on all things seem to work ok.
Keep us posted on the fix or outcome!!
I will post the outcome/fix when I get it.
The problem I'm having is AFTER I stop, the RPM's drop to 500-600, pulls down to 200-300 seconds later, and then Revs up to about 900-1000.
Chrysler believes the problem is coming from the EVAP canister purge valve staying open too long (it should only be open above 40 MPH) and not closing at idle. This is like having a vacuum leak and for some reason (Chyrsler is trying to figure out) why the PCM/purge valve/idle air control valve is not compensating quick enough.
Turning the A/C on sets the idle at 600 RPM no matter what. That is why it doesn't die or rev up when it is on.
Steve
Keep use updated on the fixes!!
I would not own a Ford (crash tests not good), Chevy (owned one before and all it did was squeak and rattle), and the Tundra is too small. I'm sold on the Ram. Maybe I should just get the 5.9 or wait for the new HEMI!
I hear ya on the 4x4. The 4x2 does well on bad roads, just need a little weight in the rear and take it easy.
Will keep everyone updated
Steve
Several causes to this
- throttle cable - this was recalled for 94-96 trucks, but the older cable was used on some 97s as well. If you've never changed it, get ti checked, it may be ready to snap.
- fuel system - inspect fuel lines (might be crimped), fuel filter (clog), fuel pump, injectors.
kcram
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