Lincoln Aviator

g_ram · June 2003

Does anyone know where I can find a cargo cover. Or, will the cargo covers for a Mountaineer work?

utl3 · June 2003

Someone above mentioned that they can purchase an Aviator at invoice. Has anyone pulled that off? I assumed that due to the lower 2% hold back they would be a lot less likely to sell at invoice.

If so, that makes it a great buy. I know that until I walk into my particular dealer and give it a shot, I will really not know for sure. But I am curious how close some of you got to invoice.

Thanks

e350v10 · June 2003

You might start with the fleet department. These guys sell vehicles at invoice all day long (quantity), and will probably more than happy to sell you one. If they won't, just try another dealer - and be sure and tell them that.

ANT14 · June 2003

New for 2004 Aviator

* Tire-pressure monitoring system now standard
* Available AdvanceTrac with Roll Stability Control (4x2 only; 4x4 late availability)
* Upgraded DVD-based voice-activated navigation system with touch screen and in-dash six-disc changer
* New exterior colors: Dark Blue Pearl, Light French Silk
* New interior color: Dove Gray

sirknightd · June 2003

I got mine for several hundred below invoice.
premium awd package 210 A
I paid 47,470 plus tax
with factory moonroof, dvd navigation, advance trac, factory rear entertainment, and factory trailer tow

And zero financing for sixty months.

I was quite pleased with the deal.

ps thanks for all the usefull and intersting info Ant

chaalz · June 2003

Well we finally bought the 2003 Aviator (Premium/AWD/Tow Pckg/MoonRoof). We passed up the Nav System and DVD player. Wanted the AdvanceTrac but settled with just the AWD. Paid $42,900 plus tax, fees, etc. Put 0 down, got 0% financing from dealer for 5 yrs.

We have only driven 137 miles with this car and my wife and I literally have to toss a coin to see who drives 3 miles to BlockBluster. We love it.

Pros:
-Great power (always first car out after red light :-) )
-Excellent turning radius
-Car like drive (great balance btw sporty and smooth ride)
-Estimated Operating costs are lower or the same as many other SUV's (internet comparison)
-Interior: setup and white back-lights are perfect.

Cons:
-MPG is average (note that average is a relative term. Dont compare a sedan's MPG to an SUV's MPG. As far as SUV's go, the Aviator's MPG is simply average at 13/18).
-To get to 3rd row you have to folder 1 of the 2nd row seats forward. When folding the seat back down it rubs against the seat belt lock. Not a biggie, just worried that it will damage the seat more quickly.

I would have loved to see
-Auto dimming mirror
-Front passenger window should have all features as driver window ... (like just pressing once to get the window all the way down or up)
-Standard AdvanceTrac (the philosophy to build 2 cars, 1 safer than the other, still blows me away. Why not just make all your cars as safe as possible and leave the "luxury" stuff as options.)
-Sensors for the front of the car (dont laugh). I am not used to an SUV, so when parking, its harder to see just how close I am to the vehicle in front of me. A sensor that works only at less then 10MPH would help :-)
-Fold flat 2nd and 3rd row seats. Not almost flat, but FLAT. And I dont want to have to remove the seat cushion either. Volvo XC90 is a perfect example of this.

FYI:
We also test drove the Volvox XC90 (average interior, not as much power for us) and Acura MDX (too plain and boring in all respects).
Didnt like the shape of the Nissan Murrano and Infiniti FX45/FX35, and the BMW X5 only had 5 seats.

gteach26 · June 2003

As a Navigator owner I can tell you both of these SUV's are sweet.. Isn't that interior the nicest thing you've seen?!

Also, as far as front parking sensors go, I've used the system on the Lexus LS430 Ultra and it DOES help... I hope Lincoln puts 'em on all of their SUV's in the future.. ditto on the auto up/down feature on the window switches.

e350v10 · June 2003

The BMW X5 has them too (and a heated steering wheel). Both options the Aviator should have.

ghengisc · June 2003

Does anyone have an Aviator on order right now? I just found out from the Lincoln dealer that my Aviator will not come in until the end of July and I ordered it around the middle of May. Does anyone know what's going on?

asema · June 2003

Just got a Black/light parchment interior with Nav,advance trak, tow package, sunroof, dvd entertainment system for 44300 + tax.
Awesome deal on an awesome car.
Oh, and the car came with auto dimming rear view mirror. All the aviators at my dealer had this standard....

utl3 · June 2003

asema,

How much below invoice-incentives was that price? As far as the self dimming mirror, did they all have the navigation package? That is the only way to get the mirror from the factory.

asema · July 2003

utl3...I believe the invoice was 48,319, MSRP was 52340. With the 3000 rebate, I paid 44321, which means I got it for 1000 below invoice (48319- 1000 - 3000 = 44321 approx).
I got financing at 4.09 which made more sense than the 0% for me.In the long run, i actually pay less with a down payment...

zachmbenzfvr · July 2003

Hi everyone, I am looking around for a new car for my wife. She has a 2001 Suburban, and the lease is up in Nov. She says she wants a Tahoe, or really anything smaller than the Suburban, which is basically everything. But anyways, It looks like the new Aviator will be a good SUV to look into. Any owners commentary would be appreciated.

Zach

ANT14 · July 2003

Have you tried searching back on this forum for any past information that might be useful?

I would say something "Tahoe size" closest would be a Expy or Navi since they are fullsize SUV's like the Tahoe. As for something smaller, it would be Midsize SUV's, Explorer/Mountaineer/Aviator.

Benefit of the Ex/Mt/Avi over the competition, is being able to give you three rows of seating, (and a usable 3rd row seat) in a compact size of 188-190in. length. Where as for example, the Chevy Trailblazer XL can match the seating capacity, but by adding over a foot of length, and then some at @211in. (Last I remember) to be able to fit the same.

And if you prefer the seating attributes and overall package of the Avitor, but prefer car based, I highly recommend the Volvo XC90 as well.

Overall, I do not believe I've heard major complaints about the vehicle in this, or any other forum. If anything I think the most we have discussed has been minor things, or additions/gadgets people would like to see standard in the future, etc.

My major pet peeve was wanting a grey interior (not that I need an Avi), and that I already knew would be taken care of soon enough, with this years addition of Dove Grey.

zachmbenzfvr · July 2003

Thanks for all of your help. I like the look or the Aviator. The interior especially is far superior to any American interior I have seen in quite a while. The XC90 is definetly on the list. I like the look of the Touareg, but no third row of seats. I honestly don't want another Chevy, or GM for that matter. I like the rear seating in the Aviator. The size, no matter what will be different from the Suburban. I would consider the Navigator but it looks overdone to me. BTW color choices have already been chosen, the car no matter what it is, will be Dark Green, with a gray or beige interior, just like the last three of her cars!

Zach

ANT14 · July 2003

Ah yes, just like me.... I always say "I don't care what color it is, as long as it's black with grey interior". I say go with grey because it hides dirt/grime much more than the beige (parchment), although I do admit that in parchment, it looks much more elegant with the wood and silver nickel details. :-)

ghengisc · July 2003

Has anyone got below invoice on a vehicle that was ordered?

geniaho · July 2003

I have now had the Aviator Kitty Hawk version for 4000 Ks with not a problem of any kind.
I love that SUV and your forum here lets all know that you have a better than average chance of being satisfied with the Aviator.
Mr. zach #715 the kitty hawk has a black seat with parchment panels unlike the regular Av.
The wife just loves it and finds it not to big and easy to drive.
It's just the little things that irk one like the mirror bit and I would still like a digital clock on my radio in addition to the retro one.
On that note, does anyone know if the Mito Corp. Gentex NVS mirror would fit our Aviators.
It seems to have all we want in a rear view (auto dimming, compass, outside temp and ice indicator and even map lights which we would not need) mitocorp.com .
Also a chrome grille and lower insert by j-jent.com under new products, looks great.
I think they also have running board trim strips.
Any way I am totally satisfied and for a first year production unit, what more can you say?
Geniaho.

georgefarmer · July 2003

The Aviator is one of the few mid-sized SUV that the GVWR is over 6000 lbs. That means if you are self employed and can justify it in your business you can write it off in the first year. the Section 179 write off was $25,000 but the new tax law raised it to $100,000, I think.

aheck · July 2003

We drove a few cars this past weekend. The lease on my Jeep Grand Cherokee was up last month and I'm having SUV withdrawl. We drove the Toyota 4-Runner V8 and was HUGELY disappointed. Then, on a whim, we went to the Lincoln dealer. We checked out and drove the Aviator. Then onto the Landrover dealer, where we drove the Discovery 2 SE, which is pretty much the vehicle I've always wanted. Then, just for fun, we went to drive the new Lexus GX470.

Our assessment: Again, the Toyota was total junk. Didn't really like 1 thing about it. The Lincoln was a HUGE surprise. I had never really given them consideration before. Both the wife and I really liked the car. We also drove the Landrover, and both the wife and I were pretty disappointed. Like I said, I always wanted one, but after driving the Lincoln (which my wife thanked me for doing, after we drive the Landrover) we both agreed that the Lincoln was significantly better for the type of driving we'd be doing. We both really like the Lexus, but they seemed to be around $8000 more than the Lincoln we were looking at, and I didn't see that difference. Very nice truck. Really liked the inside, nice and quiet, etc. But not really $8000 difference over the Lincoln.

Noticed a few small things like the manual seat positioning, etc, like you have mentioned, but they aren't deal breakers. I just got out of a $400/month Jeep lease, which I was used to after putting down a substaintial down-payment in the form of a trade-in. Now, not having a trade-in or not wanting to part with thousands and thousands in savings, I am surprised at how much a monthly payment can be, after running some numbers on the ~$42,000 Aviator. We'll probably also check out the Honda Pilot, even though I realize they're not in the same category, but we're already nervous about buying versus leasing, and am feeling the Honda might be a better long term purchase, for reliability and re-sale.

Anyway, enough rambling. Thanks for the info on this board about the Avaitor. We'll make a decision in the next month or two and will definitely be back to drive the Aviator once more before then. Just wanted to say that we were really, pleasantly surprised about the vehicle and really happy that we took the time to stop in and check it out.

Aaron

ANT14 · July 2003

Well if maybe not the Aviator, have you thought maybe Explorer or Mountaineer? Pretty much at the same price range of that Honda Pilot, if you liked the attributes of the Aviator, and can deal with a less powerful engine and different interior trimmings...

aheck · July 2003

Hi again group,

One more thing I forgot to mention was the rear seat of the Avaitor. Both the wife and I really like the split rear seat, i.e. not the bench seat. Seemed to break it up nicely, and then you still have the 3rd row should you need to carry more people. Just curious people's opinions about this seat.

Also, for those of you who know Lincoln, when do they usually come out with the new models? We really like the Aviator and especially like the 0% financing deal. I would like to wait as long as possible, maybe until early this fall, and get a 2003 Aviator at invoice, plus using the 0% financing deal. Is this a feasible plan? Anyone see any problems with it?

Thanks, Aaron

ANT14 · July 2003

August 18th is the JOB 1 date for the 2004 Aviator.

sirknightd · July 2003

I like the second row bucket seats..very classy. They recline slightly which my kids like on a long trip. It looks nice, and yes you always have the third row for more passengers which probably is not that often.

nvbanker · July 2003

My friend's new Aviator developed a wierd howling noise on a recent trip to San Francisco. It's very difficult to describe. Nothing affects it. Windows up or down, radio on or off, speed of car, nothing. It's intermittant, and for no apparent reason, it will just start making an eerie howling sound, that sounds like it's coming from the midship or rear of the car. Passengers throughout the car can hear it, but can't locate it or affect it. Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?

gteach26 · July 2003

On recently paved roads My 03 Navigator makes a gentle humming sound, it is like a slight low level whisper that echos throughout the cabin -- it is probably tire noise, and it ONLY happens on freshly paved roads. Of course, my wife thinks I'm nuts and she's probably right.

nvbanker · July 2003

Tire noise is a possibility, and I'd be down for that but for the fact that it will do it at 10 MPH sometimes too......

ANT14 · July 2003

Gteach, Yes that's most probably tire noise. Ironically, some vehicles make a noise on the smoother pavement, while other's make it on the rougher pavement. That's all in the tire design and it's not really considered an issue. Think of it this way, if the vehicle is SOOO quite, that's ALL you hear, then be lucky. IN most other cars, SUCH noises are not audible because they are masked by major wind noise, or engine ruckus. Just depends...

avifan · July 2003

I am buying an Aviator, I have one on order, but I doubt that it will be delivered in time to take advantage of the cash-back/financing incentives that expire 7/31.....

I have a few questions for you knowledgeable people.
1) I have been told by one dealership that the "high altitude principle use" is a factory-installed item while another dealer (with a very similar Aviator on his lot) says that it is not. What is correct?
2) I am debating on whether to buy a 2003 or 2004. Does anyone know the answer to this scenario...several insurance companies have not been able to tell me...
If Nick buys a 2003 tomorrow and Bob buys a 2004 in October. They both total their Aviators the same day. Nick has 4000 miles on his 2003 and Bob has only 150 miles on his 2004. What would be the difference in the reimbursement by the insurance company?
3) Is the new 2004 dove grey interior lighter or darker than the medium ash?
4) Edmund's has a new 2004 option listed as "roof rail crossbar" for $60. What is this and is it really different for the 2004?
5) What is a reasonable expected price increase for the 2004?

Thanks,
Al

ghengisc · July 2003

I can't really help you on the insurance question but I may be able to help you on the incentives and financing. I actually have an 03 Aviator on order right now and I had asked the same question about getting an 03 or 04. The dealer said the there would be no incentives if I ordered an 04 so I stuck with an 03.
     I also just found out that my aviator will be made on the 14th of this month and will be delivered on the 28th. This is pretty disappointing considering the order got to Lincoln on the 20th of May.
      Now, the answer to your financing question. I had the same concern and I was told by a salesman in Arizona that at the time of the order, they should have an agreement sheet that states that you will be able to lock in the incentives for the promotional period or, if the incentives get better the next month, get the new promotion. The salesman said it's done to protect the buyer during the wait time b/c you actually have committed to buying it by putting down a deposit (barring a major disaster when it's delivered).
      Anyway, you should be guaranteed the best promotion by signing that form.

avifan · July 2003

I ordered by phone, so there was nothing to sign. Odd though, I ordered within a day of you, have a build date within a day of yours, but I can not get any kind of estimated delivery date!

ghengisc · July 2003

I actually ordered my vehicle from a Ford dealer b/c it was close to my house, but the Lincoln dealer should have the ETA for you and you can have your salesman get the paper work ready for you. I didn't have to sign anything. They will give you the deal if you are going to spend the kind of money that this vehicle costs plus they will want your business. Remember, you are not obligated to buy the car. I don't worry about it too much b/c my cousin at Ford has given me some good tips. Good Luck!!

avifan · July 2003

I feel obligated to buy the car because of the deposit.

Another question...my salesman is saying the incentive is $3K/0%, even though the commercials and the llincoln.com site have $4k/0%+$1K. What are you being told?
Al

ghengisc · July 2003

I actually just checked it out the other day but my salesman hasn't gotten back with me on that yet. Apparently, you have to go with Ford financing or lease to get the extra thousand. If it's like GM you have to finance through them to get the rebate plus wait at least 30 days before you can pay the balance off in full.
I'm locked into no less than 3400 in rebates right now. I am eligible for the 400 recent graduate rebate and if I can get the 4000+400 then I'll be pretty content. I'll let you know what I find out as soon as my sales guy calls me.

mike

ghengisc · July 2003

I got a hold of the Lincoln dealer about the financing and they told me that you have to finance through ford to be able to get the additional thousand cash back. So, you are eligible for 3000+1000 if you finance through them. However, I'm not sure if you will get the low rate if you take the money.

avifan · July 2003

At lincoln.com the Anniversary special for the Aviator says
0% for 60 months** plus $1000 Bonus Cash
OR UP TO
$4000 cash back***
in the fine print it mentions a $500 AARP bonus which also appears under the LS, but not the Av.

Go figure.

ghengisc · July 2003

yes, the extra thousand is for both the financing at 0% or 3000 cash back. Only for the 2003 aviators. The way I understood how you could get the 1000 bonus if you get the cash back is that you have to finance some of the car through ford and then you could pay that amount off when and if you want.

gogoreagan · July 2003

What kind of sales price are you negotiating for your 2003 Aviator's? For either a sales purchase or lease.

My local dealer called me yesterday and offered a lease for 2% above invoice plus the $3000 rebate (which now may be $4000) and the $1000 Ford Credit. I did not know if this was in line with what you guys are experiencing..........Bill

aheck · July 2003

We are still considering this truck. Seems like pricing is getting better every day. Here in FL, they seem to be going for under invoice. We are looking at the base Luxury 2WD for MSRP $39,995. Dealer will kick in $3963 and another $3000 ($4000?) from Lincoln, making this one heck of a deal, as far as I see it.

My wife wants to wait a few months and then look for a used 2002-2003 truck with maybe 5-10K miles. At the rate they are selling these Avaitors now, I'm thinking that it will be cheaper to buy new now, than getting a used one later. What do you guys think?

Aaron

ghengisc · July 2003

I'm getting my aviator through the x-plan so I didn't have to negotiate for the price b/c I'm buying it through ford. As far as the price it's a set price by ford. I think at the time I ordered it, It was 150 above dealer invoice but I also get the incentives. It was a good deal for me b/c I really didn't have to haggle and I got what I wanted. I'll know the final price when the Aviator comes in.

mike

chaalz · July 2003

Hello,
so far after 3 weeks there have been no major issues. We missed a scratch on the rear bumper while inspecting the car so we took the car in, got another Avi as a loaner, and got our Avi back the next day.

We are still barely getting 11 mpg. This is probably bcuz we only drive 18 miles to AND from work daily. Not much highway use yet.

Nonetheless, the truck is excellent.

I have 2 regrets though: First is not getting the AdvanceTrac option. For only $800 more it seemed worth it. Second, is not getting a 2004 model. Edmunds (last I checked) only showed a $300 price difference. I guess we could have waited 3 more months. I mean, in 5 years the price difference btw. a 2003 and 2004 will be much more than $300.

This got me to looking back on our car buying journey. After deciding on what SUV to buy, I called dozens of dealers and picked the cheapest one. However, we sort of lost some bargaining power since he knew they were the cheapest. In addition, we were just tired of going back and forth with different dealers. So my advice to anyone buying a car is first decide on what you want (down to every last option). You generally know what you can afford and have a rough estimate of what cars cost. Then in a relatively short period of time, start your attack. :-) I say this bcuz if the negotiating process is drawn out too long, you tend to get frustrated and this could cost you $$$. Anyway, good luck.

On a final note, TEST DRIVE THE AVIATOR. We did just by chance. The ride and feeling you get really makes this a top contender.

ocrx66 · July 2003

Have learned a lot from the reading here, hope you can help w/ a couple of questions. I will be getting my vehicle thru the x-plan so a good savings to start. Here are my questions:
1) Better to get the low priced aviator or the higher end mountaineer;
2) is awd actually necessary, I live in northeast ohio and the winters are moderate, is it worth the extra cost as well as the slightly reduced gas milage considering the weight of the vehicle seems to be enough;
3) I know the rebate of 3k and the cash back of 1k are there but is there dealer incentive available and if so can I also have that applied under the x-plan.
I am not sure if I plan on leasing or buying.
Your thoughtful insights would be deeply appreciated. TXS.

avifan · July 2003

OK. What is the "x-plan" that you two are referring to?
Al

nvbanker · July 2003

1) Yes, the test drive of the Aviator is an amazing experience, I agree! They are an unbelievable performer.

2) As to the Aviator/Mountaineer choice, I own a 2002 Mountaineer. My friend has a new Aviator. There is no comparison, even with the shared basic platform. The engine is a HUGH difference, the feel and steering is way better in the Aviator, and everything about how it drives feels different. I would opt for the Aviator if I could afford it every time. The high end Mountaineer is a nice car, no complaints. But the Aviator is really in a class by itself.

ghengisc · July 2003

Here's the deal with the X-plan.

It's a set price by Ford for friends and family. The other plan is called the A-plan which is only for immediate family of Ford employees. The X-plan is good b/c you sometimes get close to dealer invoice or below.
   For example, The A-plan gives about 15% discount while the X-plan is about half of that. This is where you will start when you tell the dealer you want to purchase on the X-plan. There is no negotiation because Ford sets the price.
    For example, when you ordered your vehicle, there should have been three prices: dealer invoice, A-plan price, and X-plan price. Like I said before the X-plan gives you a price close to invoice to start with and you still get all of the incentives whether you take the cash, finance, or lease.
   This is where the real benefit comes in. I'm sure that you could negotiate a better deal on an Aviator that has been on the lot for a while but highly unlikely on one that is ordered. According to my cousin at Ford, the Ford plans are designed to give you the best deal with no hassle. If someone does get a lower price, it's because the dealers are losing money and need to push inventory. This makes sense right now b/c Aviator sales are slow. Lincoln expects to sell 30,000 of these this year yet they are only at about 9,000. From what I understand, most dealers won't come down on the price if it's ordered. Also, where I am (OKC), the Aviators were either fully loaded or stripped. There were really none in-between. So our salesman looked for about 2 weeks and couldn't find what we wanted. He basically gave up and we ended up ordering it. Hope this helps.

ocrx66 · July 2003

Thanks for your replies. Is there dealer cash available on the aviator or mountaineer, if so how much on each and can it be used on the x-plan? Thanks

ANT14 · July 2003

Sales so far are 12,476, they are on target so far. It's just the media over dramatized it's doom because it had a slow start up.

nvbanker · July 2003

Lincoln seems to have stopped advertising it. At least I haven't seen anything in this market. Is that because it is selling as desired without it?

ANT14 · July 2003

Depends what you watch and read, and the demographics the marketing firm wants to attract. I never make it a point to look for it, or remember seeing it, although marketing for it has cooled down a bit.

e350v10 · July 2003

We just returned from an 1,800 mile trip up to Glacier National Park (Montana) towing a 6,000 lb. travel trailer.

The Aviator has more power than our 2000 Expedition with the 5.4 V8

On a grade, the Aviator will slow to about 48 MPH before downshifting and accelerating back up to 60 MPH. The Expedition slowed to 42.

We towed on the straightaways (Wyoming) at 75 MPH 3200 RPM and averaged 7.5 MPG.

The air conditioning shuts off at 4000 RPMs (to prevent overheating?) Very annoying on a hot day.

The cruise control shuts off when the Aviator loses 10 MPH and WILL NOT DOWNSHIFT (to 3rd gear) on its own. This is a major flaw.

A 22 gallon fuel tank is too small! We had to refuel every 150 miles (premium fuel, 7.5 MPG, Ouch!)

Overall, it towed quite well, despite its short wheelbase.

Lincoln Aviator

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