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holdback is something they get from the manufacturer for selling the car in due time... there is a toyota dealer advertising fee, which i believe they pass on to the consumer, but even that can be negotiated.... good luck... i would say use this as leverage now, rather than avoiding this dealer like the flu...
HOLD back is guaranteed profit for the dealer, from the manufacture for moving the item.
Best quote I got was $28625 for MSRP of $31,940 with Edmunds Invoice of $28193 on a 2008 Camry Hybrid with leather / navi / bunch of other packages.
Anyone have a recent price point about a 2008 TCH purchase?
-V
These are still going at a premium, and will likely continue to do so:
With Nav/Leather Option, you are looking at 28,400 to 28,900 (most toward the higher end of that range.) 2008 models get 1,000 rebate on top of that, 2009 models do not. Obviously, add any options, plus your tax, licensing and doc fees to that.
I've surveyed about 30 dealers in the Western US, and it's all about the same.
Edmunds number don't mean much (I would be glad if someone can provide a dealer who is lower.)
This is a common scam in states that border low sales tax states. (ex CA and OR). However, the govt likes "its" (I mean "your") money, so they will get you when you transfer title, etc.
Thanks.
So, they are not selling well enough to command MSRP or even close to it.
It's still early in 2008 and the 2009s offer zero new features, so not much reason to get a 2009 at this point.
Not sure what part of the country you are in. Int he West, 2008 Camry Hybrids are in shorter supply - only certain colors available. (I guess it depends on your price elasticity related to color; I have a hard time coughing up almost $30K for a color I am not thrilled about.)
The price for 2008 vs 2009 is essentially only the rebate (1,000) and maybe, the couple hundred bucks. At least that's what I've seen from Western US dealers.
For resale it's better to have a 2009 than a 2008, even with the rebate. If you can get a really good price, this may change.
3,000 off MSRP is pretty much normal for the TCH; as I said, I'm seeing 28-29K for the loaded version.
Resale will not be much different because if you buy a 2009 this early in the year and resell it within a few years the mileage will be very high for it's model year and will be deducted from the value. Many people bought 2007 Camrys in March 2006 are selling their "1 year old" car this year with 2 years worth of mileage since it is really is 2 years old. Mileage that is normal for one model year is excessive mileage for a year newer car.
If you keep it for several years, the difference between a 2008 and 2009 won't be much at that point. So either way not a big resale advantage for cars purchased now.
My questions: Has anyone bought a Camry hybrid in the Boston area recently? What did you pay? Also, do dealers typically insist on keeping all of the holdback or is that negotiable?
Thanks!
As far as resale, it's true that mileage is a key factor...but so is model year.
Example: Let's take a similar high demand car: Prius (same options/config). I'll use Edmund' numbers for trade-in, even though they are not perfect.
Used 2006 Prius - 100 miles (basically "new") - ~16,900
Used 2006 Prius - 10000 miles - ~$16,700
Used 2006 Prius - 20000 miles - ~$16,250
Used 2006 Prius - 30000 miles - ~15,900
Used 2007 Prius - 100 miles (basically "new") - ~17,450
Used 2007 Prius - 10000 miles - ~$16,950
Used 2007 Prius - 20000 miles - ~$16,400
Used 2007 Prius - 30000 miles - ~$15,900
The difference looks small...only a few hundred bucks. But let's take both cars with 30,000 miles - is a private party, given the choice between the two, going to take a 2006 (regardless of release date). No, they will take the "newer" one. This translate to a high price.
Human nature is to expect to pay more for the "newer" car. Mileage is less a factor today - these car run like champs for 100,000+ miles - compared to 20-30 years ago.
I think the fact Camry Hybrid sales in January 2008 were 34% higher than 2007 (second to only the Prius's 37% for the same period) make it hard to get a "good" deal.
People do care about mileage and would rather have a 2006 with 25,000 miles than a 2007 with 30,000 miles. Most people will want the one with the most warranty remaining whether that be time or mileage. There are people who are racking up miles on 2009s from a month ago and there are some 2008s that won't even be sold for a couple months.
If they were both bought on the same date (because the dealers had both model years on their lots at the date of purchase like has been the case the last couple of months) no warranty benefit to the new buyer will be realized on the 2009 at resale.
If they both have same mileage they may want the newer year, but your own numbers show that to be of limited value. Certainly way less than the $1000 rebate you get on a 2008 today.
Sometimes there are at least minor improvements made on the newer year that will make it a better car to buy, but between a 2008 and 2009 Camry, there are no improvements. That would be different if it was a 2006 vs 2007 Camry or even a 2009 vs the updated 2010 coming next year.
It's pretty dumb that a "2009" model was even released in January 2008 when they made no changes whatsoever.
Here in Massachusetts (and probably in other states) we pay sales tax on a capitalized cost reduction. In my case there was no real capitalized cost reduction - just numbers - so the dealer had to do re-allocate part of what I paid at signing as tax on a capitalized cost reduction that never took place. Once again, the net effect was zero: The amount due at signing did not change, just the way the amount was categorized.
Why would a dealer do this? I was thinking perhaps there's some incentive to show a higher gross price for the car?
I respectfully disagree. I think it's the opposite. You can control the number miles you drive, not the passing of time.
I agree it's silly to really the next year model 11 months in advance, but c'est la vie.
Almost all of those fees are taxable, anyway.... so, it didn't cost you anything extra...
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The warranty starts on the day the car was first purchased regardless of the "model year." A 2008 purchased in April will have more warranty time available in two years than a 2009 purchased in February and it makes sense to get the one with the most warranty time and mileage remaining.
It makes no sense to pay more money for a used car that has more miles, less warranty remaining and has no changes or improvements to it.
Even if they were both exactly the same and purchased on the same date, you still will not get the extra $1000 (from loss of rebate) back at resale (or even $500).
Thanks
Thanks
They make some aftermarket leather kits that are designed to work with airbags and will probably still work normally, but no one will take guarantee it if it isn't factory stock.
Dealer in Marin California has been running an ad for 2008 Camry Hybrid with $4521 off MSRP of $31119 for a sale price of $26598 plus a $1000 rebate for final price of $25598. I have never bought a car there and made the mistake of giving them my phone number. They never called when they were running these ads( I wanted $4000 off MSRP last Nov) but did call all the time when they were priced higher. Good price but don't give them your phone number.
I had had extensive conversation with both, and there is no way they will even get close to that price. Based on conversations I've had with friends who have bought there, they do a little bait and switch/teaser activity. Suckering the supposedly rich Marinites tends to be their MO.
Moreover, I have visited both of these dealers in person (I am in the SF Bay Area), and they won't budge much (at least over the past month). Most are in the 28,500-28,900 range (before rebate on 2008).
$4,000 off MSRP on a 2008 or $3,000 off MSRP for a 2009 might be tough, but you can get $3,200 off without much fuss ($2,200 for 2009).
(2009 MSRP of a maxed Camry Hybrid is $31,070)
The lowest I've seen is $28,200 for either 2008 or 2009. (not inlcuding $1,000 rebate for 2008.)
I guess the "slow" economy isn't affecting these cars much; I know if I wanted a Chevy Malibu or Ford, I could deal.
Any thoughts on this offer?
Any input is greatly appreciated.
That would be about 27,575. Not sure what state you are in; in CA license and doc is about $350.
So that would be about 27,200.
You may be able to get a 2008 for that price, (including $1,000 rebate), but not a 2009.
If you can get a 2009 for that price, you are getting a great deal.
Thanks
I'm not complaining. I paid exactly what I agreed to pay so I'm a happy guy. I just found it in amusing/interesting that the numbers were presented that way.
I didn't want Nav, but everything else.
I ended up paying $25.5
Here is a breakdown of the charges added to the get to that invoice price
Destination Charge ..........................: $ 660.00
TDA .........................................: $ 410.00
Gasoline ....................................: $ 10.00
Dealer Holdback .............................: $ 421.00
Whsl. Financial Reserve .....................: $ 210.00
--------- ---------
Total .......................................Invoice $ 20066.00 MSRP $ 21934.00
Their price is like 300-600 dollars lower than any other dealer that has offered me and I've called the other deals to try to get them to go lower but all of them are telling me to go buy it at that price. Am I getting a good deal from this dealer or should I haggle down even more. I'm thinking of paying around 19000-19500, is that possible? The only incentives available right now is the 0% APR 36 Months
Even with all the internet information I still never quite know exactly how much the dealer is getting. They do seem to still be more pliable closer to month-end. I end up backing into what is a good price by how other dealers react, so if they are basically telling you they don't want to match the deal then it can't be that bad. On the other hand with the skittishness in the economy right now plus of course they want to get rid of the 08's, so you should have some leverage. Depending on how badly you want this car you could tell them that they've got a deal if they'll drop it by $500 otherwise you need more time to think it over. Assuming the car is still available in a few weeks which it probably will be, you could talk to them again at month end. My guess is they'll call you before then
After much haggling yesterday, I got the following deal (though is pending "management" approval):
NEW 2008 4cyl Camry LE AUTO in Magnetic Gray with Bisque Interior
$20,000 OTD (7% tax included OTD)
I haven't signed the deal yet so I can't break it down. I will once everything goes through.
Also FYI, got these other deals from other dealers around my area:
$20,585 OTD
$20,698 OTD
The 2008 V6 I couldn't get them down below the low $23,000s so I gave up on that.
I think I did great. What do you guys think?
It will all depend now if they are willing to give me full KBB value :P for my trade-in since I will be upside-down even then.
I got a lot of "its impossible" and "thats crazy" and "I don't think you understand what out the door is". Keep trying and show them the Edmunds TMV that quickly brought them down to the $20,500 range. Remember, the dealer needs your money more than you need their car.
Good luck and I'll report back!
Upon asking, he indicated that the car had a 1 scratch on the bumper which he showed me and that would be repaired by his auto dept. But I could not obtain any paperwork from him that would provide an audit trail to indicate that this was what the invoice damage "REPAIRED" was referring to. He tried to convince me but in the end I backed out, not sure if I let go of a good deal or it was better to let it go, didn't want to buy a 30k car with status repaired.
Anyone have any idea what "REPAIRED" could have referred to? My take was that something was repaired but the dealer had no idea what it was, so better to let it go, the car was obtained from another dealer since this dealer did not have it in stock.
No idea what it might be... could be minor.. but, I doubt the dealer was being straight with you.. you were wise to walk away, IMO...
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I want to buy one. the last one i got, Camry SE 2007 V4 was about $24,670.
i don't know if the price have been going up or not
any help would be greatly appreciated
thanks!
Good luck!
The Sandman
Anybody know if there is going to be another rebate/special programs on the remaining o8's or even an 09 Camry??
I have not totally ruled out the Prius either.. The Camry Hybrid seems to have some issues with the battery staying charged, based on the reports from this site..
Have to admit, I gassed up the Dodge minivan last night.. $54.00 !!!! Dang!!!! :-((
I have a 2009 Camry Hybrid - no issues. It's a fantastic car. As for battery staying charged, I've never heard or seen that. Everyone I personnally know with a Camry Hybrid (about 1/2 dozen) say it works just fine.
It they want you to pay list for a Prius (insane), you can get a Camry Hybrid for the same amount; they are running $2-3K off MSRP for 2009; if you can find a 2008, you can get another $1,000 back.
And yes, the feeling of getting nearly twice the mpg I was previous getting, in the same size care, is wonderful.
I did reconnect again with the same dealer in Seattle, the one who got a car in for me that had REPAIRED in the invoice. It turns out the bumper was repaired by Toyota but I had him bring in another car for me from about 5 hrs away. It will have about 300 miles due to the distance he's getting it from but atleast I don't have to drive, his driver is getting the car in, would be $125 below dealer invoice. Their dealer invoice includes holdback, tda and WFS, tried to negotiate with about 25 dealers, this is the best I got in Seattle area. Positive thing is that I will get an additional $400 off from the toyota grad program, so will be $525 below invoice in all.
Last night in Massachusetts at least there was a Toyota commercial bragging about the $1K cash back on 08's.
I have been all over the Camry hybrid groups, there is a larger one at another url and there is no problem with the battery charging. I have had a '08 Camry hybrid for about 6 weeks now; it is a phenomenal car they have achieved a fantastic balance between fuel economy yet with impressive power when you need it. And getting 40+ mph in a conventional looking car doesn't hurt either. ;-)
My wife has an '08 Lexus (ES350) and she now wishes she had bought a Camry hybrid instead.