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2013 and Earlier - Toyota Camry Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • tnboytnboy Member Posts: 11
    Avoid South Toyota in Morrow, GA at all costs. I checked their website Rav4 inventory & prices a couple of weeks ago, found one I wanted, & their posted selling price was great...$2,000 below invoice. Great, huh? So I e-mailed @ it & was told the ACTUAL selling price was $635 higher (dealer fees, you know...just pure additional dealer profit). OK, now I'm leery, but the price still beats anything else I've found, so I figure "what the heck, I'll proceed". The next day I check the same vehicle on their website & the price has increased again by @ $800. Now the good deal is no deal at all. Their excuse was the "computer" was wrong. I knew better, but what the heck...I'll keep checking their inventory & prices.

    Three or four days ago, I see another Rav4 on their website. Same deal...great selling price (even with the added $635)...& today I check it & the price is @ $800 higher!

    These guys suck. RUN AWAY! THIS IS THE BAIT-&-SWITCH without the switch...
  • pablovalerinpablovalerin Member Posts: 4
    Ok deciding to lease a 2010 in So Cal. What leverage can I use to get the best car price on the lease? Also know that this will be my 2nd leave from this dealership (im currently leasing my sister's corolla from there)
  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Member Posts: 268
    "Ok deciding to lease a 2010 in So Cal. What leverage can I use to get the best car price on the lease? Also know that this will be my 2nd leave from this dealership (im currently leasing my sister's corolla from there)."

    I put down ONLY $2,800 (including $500 for the gap insurance) and I was able to lease my 2010 Camry LE automatic for 3 years/18.000 miles for ONLY $156.01 per month.
    I started the negotiation process by telling the dealer that I wanted to put $1,000 down and wanted 18,000 miles per year. I "STUCK" to the mileage of 18,000 miles per year and I increased my down payment to $1,500. The Toyota dealership "agreed" to the $1,500 down payment with $169.00 per month. But I put down $500 more to get the monthly payment down to $156.01 per month. I then put down another $500 out of pocket for the GAP INSURANCE. I ALSO paid an extra $185 because the vehicle that I wanted cost $185 more.
    So I paid a total of $2,800 for EVERYTHING and got a very good lease deal.
  • playamdxplayamdx Member Posts: 7
    Hey Guys,

    I need your help. I am looking to buy a Camry LE with all the standard features but the only thing that I want is the built in bluetooth and not the blu-logic.

    How much should I expect to pay plus TTL? I live in California but need the car for my job in Ohio. I am willing to purchase and drive from anywhere in the country.

    Ideally my goal is to buy this car for $19000, with $0 Down, I estimate that with 0% financing for 48 months (I can most likely qualify for that), and college grad rebate, my monthly payment would be under $400/month. I will be registering my car in Ohio where the sales tax is 6.5%. Is this possible? Any dealer recommendations? thanks.

    This is a great forum and I'm hoping you guys can point me in the right direction to make this happen.

    Email: tl4life@gmail.com

    Thanks a lot guys!!!!
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    price shop here:

    www.fitzmall.com

    You didn't say what part of Ohio, but Fitz has two Toyota dealerships, one is in Chambersburg, PA, which is I think a couple hours from Pgh, which is less than an hour from the Ohio border.

    Whether you buy there or not, you have a good price comparison.
  • mpd2mpd2 Member Posts: 12
    The $19,300 is after $750 rebate, but before the college rebate, which I don't know if it's worth the trouble. I prefer to pay cash for the whole car, but $1000 is sooo tempting. I just don't want to get stuck in some financial fine-print that won't allow me to pay it off early or get fined big time.

    Update: One dealer just lowered his price to $19,000 for a BASE model Camry (automatic transmission). How are people getting theirs for $18,000 w/o college rebate????
  • bob607bob607 Member Posts: 1
    It appears that the prices on fitzmall.com were increased by $400 recently (maybe only $200 on the base model). They are now $1599 under dealer invoice in almost all cases.

    Another place you could look is carmax.com, where the selling prices in Laurel, MD are now less than at fitzmall.com by several hundred dollars. They have at least 100 locations within the US.
  • rnahouraiirnahouraii Member Posts: 22
    World Toyota in Atlanta says Camry automatic lease 179/month, 39 months, 12k miles yearly no money down. "Lots of cars are available." I assume tax is extra. Is this possible?
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Sure,

    If you ignore the cost of money for a minute (which is very low in this economy), 179 x 39 months is just under 7K dollars. That basically is saying that the value of the vehicle after 3 years, would projected to be 7K less than it is today.

    Fitzmall's internet price of 19K for a 2010LE (which has dealer profit built into it), less 2007 NADA value of clean retail 16,400, is about 3K. NADA clean trade in is 13,400, which is 6K under.
  • rnahouraiirnahouraii Member Posts: 22
    ok, I'll see if they honor it. Maybe a local dealer will do the same. Thanks.
  • gooddeal2gooddeal2 Member Posts: 750
    Well, if you can get that deal, it would be a lot cheaper than buying the car.

    Yes, you can get the new LE for 19k but you don't get the 0%. So, you will need to pay at least 19K + 4% finance if you purchase (not counting tax and title). I think the interest for first 39 months is around 1.5k?

    So, the real number is 19k + 1.5k interest = 20.5k

    Trade in Value = 12K (KBB good condition = 10,850, NADA clean condition = 13,400, edmunds clean condition = 11, 379)

    if you can trade this car for 12k , the depreciation is 8.5K v. 7k if you lease.

    However, I think the trade in value for 2010 in 3 years might be lower than 12k b/c it will be a generation old.
  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Member Posts: 268
    It is "MUCH CHEAPER" to lease a 2010 Camry than it is to buy one. First of all, you would have a much higher monthly payment EVEN if you put money down for this car. Then you would be paying interest payments for an average of 5 years for the car. Also, you would be paying for repairs after the 3rd or 4th year of ownership depending on how many miles that you put on the vehicle after 3 or 4 years. If you add all of these things up over a 5 year period it is most definitely much cheaper to lease than to buy.

    I was ready to fork out $10,000 for a brand new 2010 Camry LE automatic, but when I did the cost analysis, I found out that it would cost me much more money over a 5 year period if I buy than if I leased the same exact vehicle. I ended up putting down ONLY $2,800 (which also includes the Gap Insurance on the vehicle) and got a lease deal for 3 years/ 18,000 miles per year for ONLY $156.01 per month.

    If I had purchased the vehicle instead, I would have "blown" $10,000 on the down payment + another $15,000 over a 5 year period for the monthly car payments ( I calculated my car payments to be around $250 per month for 60 months). This does NOT include any "major" repairs that the vehicle will need after the 3rd year of ownership. Overall, I would have spent "at least" $25,000 over a 5 year period if I had purchased my 2010 Camry LE.
    BUT with leasing over a 3 year period my total cost of the lease including the down payment, the gap insurance and all of the 36 monthly payments is ONLY $8,260.35
    I can turn around and try to lease the same exact vehicle after my 3 year lease is up for the same money ($156.01 per month) and with the same down payment ($2,800) again for another 3 years.

    I calculated that I can basically lease the same exact Camry vehicle for the same exact money each month for a TOTAL of 9 YEARS before I even come close to spending the $25,000 that I would have spent over a 5 year period had I purchased the vehicle instead.

    So overall, you are much better off leasing the 2010 Camry LE than you would be if you purchased it. You would SAVE "at least" $8,260.35 just in the first 5 year period by putting down $1,500 - $2,000 for a down payment and also putting down another $500 - $600 for the gap insurance and leasing this vehicle.

    Do NOT buy the 2010 Camry LE. It is NOT worth it! Leasing is the way to go!
  • rnahouraiirnahouraii Member Posts: 22
    It is a base Camry, not LE, but even so, your discussion makes sense. The ad says residual is 13.2k, if I remember correctly.

    I just need a 3rd car for a new driver coming on board, and this looks better than an Accord.
  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    World Toyota in Atlanta says Camry automatic lease 179/month, 39 months, 12k miles yearly no money down. "Lots of cars are available." I assume tax is extra. Is this possible?

    I think the ad refers to one particular car (that they probably won't have when you ask about it). There are definitely some good lease deals available, but this one sounds like a "bait and switch" to me. Give them a call and find out.

    Yes, tax will be extra. Also, gap insurance will probably be extra, and you do not want to lease without it.

    In my opinion, zero down leasing is the way to go. If you pay money down and then total the car, your down payment is history.
  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    I put down ONLY $2,800 (including $500 for the gap insurance) and I was able to lease my 2010 Camry LE automatic for 3 years/18.000 miles for ONLY $156.01 per month.
    I started the negotiation process by telling the dealer that I wanted to put $1,000 down and wanted 18,000 miles per year. I "STUCK" to the mileage of 18,000 miles per year and I increased my down payment to $1,500. The Toyota dealership "agreed" to the $1,500 down payment with $169.00 per month. But I put down $500 more to get the monthly payment down to $156.01 per month. I then put down another $500 out of pocket for the GAP INSURANCE. I ALSO paid an extra $185 because the vehicle that I wanted cost $185 more.
    So I paid a total of $2,800 for EVERYTHING and got a very good lease deal.


    Sounds like a good deal, but you are actually paying $233.79 per month when you spread the $2,800 over 36 months. Still a good deal, though.

    However, if you total the car, your down payment is history. That is why I push for as little down as possible when I lease a vehicle.
  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Member Posts: 268
    "Sounds like a good deal, but you are actually paying $233.79 per month when you spread the $2,800 over 36 months. Still a good deal, though.

    However, if you total the car, your down payment is history. That is why I push for as little down as possible when I lease a vehicle."

    Yes, if you spread out the $2,800 down payment that I put down over a 36 month period the actual payment that I am making is $233.79 per month. The $2,800 down payment "INCLUDES" the gap insurance. The ONLY reason why I put down this amount of money was because I did not want to pay $233.79 each and every month over the 36 month period of the lease. The $156.01 per month is more affordable for me right now. I personally think that paying $239.79 per month for a piece of metal on 4 wheels is too much money even though most people out there today are paying $350 to $450 and up for a car payment or even for a lease. Anything over $175 per month for a car payment or for a lease in my opinion is too much. That's the real reason why I wanted to keep my monthly payment very low at $156.01 per month and that's why I gave the $2,800 "up front" for the lease.

    ALSO, the chances of totaling the vehicle are still inherent, but very low. If the car does get totaled then "oh well".

    The question that I have here is:
    Say that the car does get totaled? Will I still be responsible to pay the remainder balance of the lease or will the insurance company pay the dealer and/or Toyota Finance what my vehicle is worth at the time of the accident? Or will I NOT be responsible to pay the balance of the rest of the monthly payments for the remainder of the lease? How does this work on a lease when the vehicle gets totaled when there is Gap Insurance on the vehicle?
  • rnahouraiirnahouraii Member Posts: 22
    it did sound like "bait and switch" to me too.
  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    The question that I have here is:
    Say that the car does get totaled? Will I still be responsible to pay the remainder balance of the lease or will the insurance company pay the dealer and/or Toyota Finance what my vehicle is worth at the time of the accident? Or will I NOT be responsible to pay the balance of the rest of the monthly payments for the remainder of the lease? How does this work on a lease when the vehicle gets totaled when there is Gap Insurance on the vehicle?


    If you did not have gap insurance you would be responsible for the difference between the payoff amount and the actual value of the car. The payoff amount should be predetermined and should be listed on each of your statements (at least it was with my last lease - a Honda Ridgeline).

    Since you have gap insurance, the insurance would pick up the difference between the payoff amount and the actual value of the car. you would walk away owing nothing.

    --------

    I had two "accidents" with the Ridgeline while I was leasing it. I hit a deer and also sustained major hail damage. The first repair was $2,500 and the second was over $3,000. I was concerned that American Honda Finance would cite "diminished value" and ask for additional money when I turned in the truck, but they didn't. The inspector only noted that there were some "repaired damages - normal wear and tear".

    Leasing is definitely not for everyone. My wife was overly concerned about damage to the Ridgeline throughout the lease periord and that we were just "throwing our money away". That is why we decided to purchase our 2010 Camry even though leasing may have been the better alternative financially.
  • gangatsgangats Member Posts: 4
    Milton Ruben Toyota of Augusta GA. Yes, they collected NC taxes, title fees etc. I didn't have to pay anything in NC.
  • gsboxergsboxer Member Posts: 4
    I am looking at a 2010 LE with a msrp of 22850. What is a fair price on this car?
    I do not qualify for either the military or the recent college grad rebates. Has anyone paid less than 19k recently? I am located in NJ.
  • swamybswamyb Member Posts: 38
    bayarea dealers (atleast 2 of them) selling LEs for 17888 after 750 rebate.
  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Member Posts: 268
    "bayarea dealers (atleast 2 of them) selling LEs for 17888 after 750 rebate."

    That's the LOWEST price that I've seen so far. Anything under $18,000 is an excellent price. Tell me, are the LE's which you are referring to have any options in them like the 16" alloy 10 spoke wheels and the carpeted floor and trunk mats? My 2010 Camry LE came with ONLY these 2 extra options and I was able to lease mine for 3 years/ 18,000 miles per year for the price of $18,800 after dickering back and forth with the dealer for 3+ hours.
  • swamybswamyb Member Posts: 38
    I did check with the dealer. They have this LE model, but comes with bare minimum standard options and non desirable color. It is kind of bait and switch.
  • raytracerraytracer Member Posts: 3
    I'm also in Seattle and dealers said you can get 1000 with finance and then cancel it even within a month. I haven't seen the paper though.

    Where did you get the $19000 quote? Is that before 1000 and 750 rebates? I went to a dealer in Seattle and they asked for 20200 before any rebate!
  • needacar123needacar123 Member Posts: 11
    Can you please give the names of delaership that are offering 17888 for LE. Is this automatic or manual?

    I am in Sacramento and teh folsom lake toyota dealer here is giivng OTD for LE 2010 auotmatic for 22500.

    Thanks
  • awn7eawn7e Member Posts: 12
    On Dec 21 - I purchased a 2010 LE (4 cylinder, auto) with alloy wheels and floor mats from a dealership in NC for $20,500 OTD (approx $19,400 + fees) and I thought I got a good deal.

    Your $17,888 + fees is a steal!
  • rnahouraiirnahouraii Member Posts: 22
    World Toyota in Atlanta did confirm an LE for 17890 plus 589 doc fee plus tax.
  • iceburnztticeburnztt Member Posts: 5
    Just grabbed this for $26300 OTD. So $2400 under msrp even after doc fees and the likes.
  • revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    Wait a couple of weeks and you can probably get a REALLY good deal on a 2010 Camry as Toyota will likely be offering HUGE rebates to try to recover in light of the ongoing sudden acceleration issue.
  • rnahouraiirnahouraii Member Posts: 22
    That's what I was wondering, too.
  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Member Posts: 268
    This might happen. Also, President's Day is coming and Toyota might give good deals on their :lemon: s. I would wait it out for a few weeks and see what Toyota will do marketing-wise to try to draw customers to buy their :lemon: s.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    Toyota will recover from this unfortunate situation in time. Remember Ford's Exploders and their fireball Pinto's? GM is no better as they can't even manage their finances without we the taxpayers having to bail their a--es out. Even Honda has had transmission issues. So all car companies have had their "issues" and recovered. People who sit on the sidelines and laugh and make moronic comments need to lighten up and look back in history a bit!

    Personally, I wish Toyota all the best and I know they'll regain their great reputation...history has a way of repeating itself and trust me, consumers have a short memory.

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Sandman I have to disagree with you on a few things.

    The Pinto was discountiuned a couple of year after the fact was brought to light because of poor sales

    The Explorers sales been cut down to 3/4 of what they were (even before having a SUV was a bad thing)

    What transmission issue, the only one I knew about was with the NSX and Honda has taken care of that at no cost to ANY owner of the NSX.

    Consumers have short memory to a point, but when it comes to safety the buying public take a while to warm up...
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    The point I was trying to make was that "most" of the auto players have had problems with certain cars and the problems get dealt with and everyone moves on. I think the Exploder problem was a much bigger problem than you remember. A problem is still a problem. I'm in no way apologizing for Toyota, just bringing the point across that they aren't the big bad company many are saying...they will fix the problem and it'll be over...period!

    In the overall picture of life right now, there are more serious problems going on in the world. I wish everyone good luck with whatever they drive and just stay safe out there!

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    The same has been with the Toyota Rustundra...consumers do not forget.
  • revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    Anyone remember what year the Pinto and Explorer recall occurred?
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    Issues like these don't matter what year it happened...main thing is the problem is diagnosed and resolved in a timely fashion. Why on earth are you such a Toyota hater anyways? Well I'm done with ya at this point...to much negative energy coming out of you & your posts...to toxic for me bud! I'm outta this forum for awhile.

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Member Posts: 268
    I believe that the Pinto gas tank explosion occurred in the early 1970's (1972 or 1973?). Ford ended up putting a rubber protector behind the back bumper to prevent the bumper from creating a spark and the car exploding if anybody were to be hit from behind.
    Then from 1974 onwards the Pinto had large bumpers like all cars had starting from 1974 and going all the way up to the early 1980's. Then in the mid 1980's all car companies started using all plastic polyurethane bumpers.

    The Explorer had the exploding tires back in the early 2000's I think.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    Let's stick to em... thanks!

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  • fiesta100fiesta100 Member Posts: 7
    For the last month or so I've been researching the Camry Hybrid, and I'd like to purchase one soon. The timing is either great or horrible, I'm not sure which!

    I am located in Richmond, VA. I have heard back from one dealer and would appreciate feedback from people on whether it's a good offer. I told the dealer I would be paying cash (no trade in).

    It's for the Camry Hybrid with factory installed accessories FE, CQ, LA, SR, UT and port installed accessory CF. The online salesperson sent me a "Vehicle Inquiry Report" that lists MSRP as $32715 (which matches what I had researched, except that it added $200 for carpet/trunk mat set). The salesperson offered an OTD price "including all taxes and fees" of $30948.51.

    The TMV report from Edmunds was $29517 (after subtracting a $750 rebate).

    Does this sound like a good deal? Does the dealer's price include tax, title, and registration?

    I had requested fewer options, but the salesperson said that I had to add nav and moonroof in order to get the other options I want (leather, comfort package, the other upgrade option that was non-nav) - is that true?

    I will appreciate any feedback.
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Camry Hybrid MSRP 32715

    Figure out your state sales tax, and dmv registration fees on this internet price. See how it compares to your local dealer. This no hassle dealer is about 2 hours from you. Ask your local dealer for the breakdown of his price. He'll tell you the vehicle price, his administrative fees, the dmv costs, taxes, etc.
  • ewew5087ewew5087 Member Posts: 2
    I just got a new Camry Hybrid with factory installed accessories FE, CQ, LA, SR and CF plus free accessories mudguard and Windows tint. The salesman offered me $27633 before $500 rebate from Toyota that is not including tax and others fee. By the way, my salesman got my Camry Hybrid from another Toyota dealership.
  • awn7eawn7e Member Posts: 12
    I bought a 2010 Camry LE in December and am considering adding the satellite radio into the vehicle. Does anyone know how much this option will cost if I want it integrated into the Camry's existing audio system?

    Also given that all dealerships are backed up doing accelerator pads ... is there a way we can do this outside the dealership (and perhaps for even cheaper)?
  • fiesta100fiesta100 Member Posts: 7
    Thanks for the replies. I have requested a price quote from the place you recommended, Kiawah.

    My first price quote from my local dealer in Richmond, VA was $30,948 out the door. This is for LA (leather), UT (upgrade and nav), CQ (heated seats, etc), CF (floor mats), and SR (sun roof). That price includes 5% tax as well as title and registration (which is about $400 according to Edmunds' calculator). The saleperson said that it also included the current $750 rebate.

    If I subtract 5% tax and $400 from the dealer's offer, the price is $29,020, which is lower than Edmund's TMV of $29,517. Am I doing this comparison correctly?

    I'll appreciate any other advice about this offer. Also, I know that President's Day is coming up, and I wonder whether sales will be better then. Thanks!
  • fiesta100fiesta100 Member Posts: 7
    EDITED VERSION OF MY POST ABOVE

    Thanks for the replies. I have requested a price quote from the place you recommended, Kiawah.

    My first price quote from my local dealer in Richmond, VA was $30,948 out the door. This is for 2010, LA (leather), UT (upgrade and nav), CQ (heated seats, etc), CF (floor mats), and SR (sun roof). That price includes tax (which is 5% according to Edmund's calculator) as well as title and registration (which is about $400 according to Edmunds' calculator). The saleperson said that it also included the current $750 rebate.

    If I subtract 5% tax and $400 from the dealer's offer, the price is $29,020, which is lower than Edmund's TMV of $29,517. Am I doing this comparison correctly? The problem is that I think Edmund's calculator is wrong - I think VA tax is 3% and that title and registration is more like $100. Does anyone know whether the Edmund's amounts are accurate? Those are some pretty big differences.

    I'll appreciate any other advice about this offer. Also, I know that President's Day is coming up, and I wonder whether sales will be better then. Thanks!
  • fiesta100fiesta100 Member Posts: 7
    Wow, thanks for the lead Kiawah! This is the response I got from that dealership. I have emailed my closest dealership to see if they can match this price (the salesperson had said that they generally can match written offers). Doesn't this seem like a good deal? The TMV is $29,517, and that does not include floor mats (which I've seen listed at $200).

    These Camry Hybrids (equipped as requested) are Internet priced at $28,087, have an MSRP of $32,715 and a certified factory invoice of $29,806. Add only tax, tags and $99 processing to get your delivered price. At 3% sales tax here would be the breakdown:
    $28,087 car
    $99 processing
    $868.08 tax
    $100 tag/title
    $29,154.08 out-the-door

    If my closest dealership will not match the price, what would it be like to buy in MD when I leave in VA? The MD dealership said they would charge me VA tax. Would I have to go to the DMV or do anything extra because of buying it out of state? Thanks for any advice on that or input about the price!
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Ask the dealership, I'm sure they do this all the time.

    They may issue temp 10 day driving tags in Md so you can drive it home, and you take the paperwork to your DMV to buy your tags there.
  • fiesta100fiesta100 Member Posts: 7
    I'm still deciding where to buy. One local dealer lowered the OTD price by $1400 to bring it to $440 more than the dealer that is 2 hrs from me. I'm waiting to hear back from another local dealer.

    (As a recap I'm looking at a camry hybrid with leather, nav, heated seats, moonroof, floor mats.) The lowest price is $28,186 ($1331 below TMV), including fees, plus tax and tags.

    I'm getting nervous about new recall news each day. Does anyone think there is anything wrong with the camry hybrid?
  • supercoolmansupercoolman Member Posts: 4
    I live in JAX, FL, A couple dealers offer me the Camry LE, with no additional option for OTD price which include dealer fees, new Tag, Taxes for $20,500. Is this a good deal or I could get better price.

    Thank you
  • awn7eawn7e Member Posts: 12
    You can do better. I say this because:

    1. The fact that "a couple of dealers" can offer you this tells me you can do better.
    2. I purchased a brand new 2010 Toyota Camry LE (automatic, with alloy wheels option) for $20,500 OTD on Dec 21, 2009 at a NC dealership. This was before any of these recent problems came up.

    You should continue to negotiate. You can also consider negotiating non-price factors such as color, whether the accelerator is made by CTS or Denso, and getting a Camry made in Japan.
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