Honda Pilot 2003 through 2005

qbrozen · May 2005

Well, you DO have to hand it to them because they are taking care of the problem. Not many people will cause an uproar when you fix the problem rather than (as some companies do) tell your customers to go away.

imidazol97 · May 2005

> they are taking care of the problem.
Taking care of the problem would mean fixing the defect that causes transmission to fail on a percentage of Honda's vehicles, in some cases 2 or more before 100k, as indicated by posts in Edmunds.
Patching with a replacement transmission that will also fail early is not the same as putting in a transmission that has an expected life of 150K. The current method guarantees that anyone keeping the car beyond 100K will have a transmission failure that they'll pay for themself.

qbrozen · May 2005

How would you propose they fix it? They believe the patch will take care of the problem. We can't prove them wrong until we drive these around and see what happens. The other solution is to let us drive around with no fix while they test new designs in the lab and in the field. Basically, the owners are becoming the testers. Personally, like I said, I find that much more acceptable (especially with the extended warranty thrown in) than telling us to get bent OR not telling us anything at all and just fixing those trannies that fail.

And how does the current method guarantee failure? I certainly can't prove that the new oil jet is not a fix. It may very well be the answer. I can't say otherwise until my tranny fails.

mrlithic · May 2005

I have had my Honda Pilot for a little over a month now and it has spent over a week in the dealer service station with regional reps swooning over a basket full of noise related issues. They are currently replacing all struts in vehicle and have only 4 or 5 problems to address after this one is corrected. I see that some say only a handful of people may be enduring some of these issues with the Pilot and I seriously hope that mine can be resolved amicably with the dealer, but, they are already to duck and cover on issues pertaining to gas sloshing noises in the tank when starting/stopping and several other problems saying it is a design flaw and there is nothing they can do about it. I haven't had any problems with the tranny yet, but, it has started making an unusually loud clicking noise when put into reverse( a sign of troubles to come?). It seems to me that it is too simplistic to say that only a few people are having all the problems. A more plausible line of reason is that the majority are either to annoyed to address their auto issues with their prospective dealers (only know they will get the run around) or simply can't hear or feel the vehicle problems or perhaps even just oblivious to problems their vehicles are having. This is my second 'highly' rated Honda auto and I had similar problems with the first one that I could never get corrected either. I swore that I would never buy another Honda again, shame on me for doing so. The initial drive at the dealer made me so convinced that these issues had been resolved that I thought it was safe to get back into the water. Wrong I was and starting to regret my purchase to the point of starting to research returning it under the lemon law if things don't get resolved. I have opened a case # with Honda corporate and hope they will resolve these issues. I miss my Suzuki XL-7 Grand Vitara 7 passenger dearly as it never gave any problems what-so-ever to us. It was destroyed in a collision of epic proportions and couldn't find a replacement of equal feature due to demand and factory re tooling. I have been in several forums today to see if it was just me or others were having similar problems. What I have found is almost uncanny and I really hope Honda Corporate is reading some of these postings. Hope your vehicle search is successful, but, lets face it, its hard to find a really good quality vehicle!

laurheis · May 2005

Just my two cents regarding two of your mentioned options...I drive a 2005 Pilot EX-L, and my husband just got the Freestyle for his company car. He is 6'1" and complains continually about the lack of legroom in the Pilot while he is driving. He HATES the little footrest on the left hand side (which I, at 5''8", absolutely love.) His solitary complaint (after two weeks of driving) with the Freestyle is the design of the center console. It swoops into the place where his right leg should be placed while driving. He is continually bumping it, and can't seem to find a place for that leg to be comfortable - makes me uncomfortable just to look at the angle of his knee while driving. The fit and finish is of a much lower quality than the Pilot, if that matters to you at all - lots and lots of plastic. It is not a car that we would have considered for purchasing, but he had to choose between the new Ford sedan or the Freestyle. We purchased a Chrysler Pacifica in its first production year, and ended up having Chrysler buy it back from us as a lemon. I personally will never purchase a first-year model ever again (too many kinks to work out.) I really like my Pilot - great fun to drive, fantastic visibility, and it is spacious enough for us (we have two small children.)

allison5 · May 2005

Thanks for the your take on this information. Actually I don't think we are going to buy any Ford vehicle. As I think I stated before we had a 96 Ford Windstar with nothing but problems I have also heard about problems with Expedition, Explorer so I am just not going to go down Ford route. I am getting so many opinions about cars I am getting all mixed up. I really like the Pilot but am worried it's not big enough for 3 kids, sometimes friends etc....

spyderred · May 2005

Thanks for all your thoughts...Let me share some of my thoughts with you... I am an engineer by profession which means that, as you may be aware of, one of the worst types of people to deal with when it comes to making a decision regarding a vehicle. To complicate matters even more, I am what you may consider a car nut. So I do a lot of research on cars as it is, without being in the market to buy one. My wife currently is driving a BMW 528i with sports package. It has been a fantastic car for us. Bought it used w/ 24K miles. We have had it for a little over 4 years and it has a little more than 80,000 miles on the odometer. Now we are in need for something a bit larger than a sedan. We would like to get a vehicle that can accomodate at least 7 maybe even 8 passengers ( two are kids ages 6 and 8). Also we are looking at keeping our next vehicle for at least 5-7 years, so long term reliability is a concern. My first choice would be a minivan, as I think that they are much more comfortable and more roomy than a midsize SUV (like the Pilot, MDX). No full size SUV's like the Expedition, Yukon XL, Suburban are being considered since they are too big for my wife to drive comfortably on a daily basis. Also for her to go from a 528i w/ sports package to a Minivan will probably be very unlikely (read, she doesn't like Minivan's). To go to an SUV will be more likely (read, She is OK with driving a SUV). Now since we are considering buying a Pilot, I have read close to 6,000 posts which include the Pilot and the Odyssey message boards.The main reason for reading these two message boards was to learn a bit more about the Tranny issue. In the past, I had a 4 cylinder Honda Accord EX, that we kept for 8 years with a 130,000 miles on the odometer. This car was one of the most reliable cars I had. Regular oil changes every 3500 mi, 2 brake jobs, 4 sets of tires, and very small minor repair items that didn't total more than $300. Bought it new for $16,300, sold it for $7750. This is why I am considering another Honda. After reading all of the 6,000+ posts, I am not sure I want a Pilot or an Odyssey. Then again, the more research I do the more I realize that there is NO perfect car out there that will suit our needs. Something that is Reliable, Big enough to accomodate 7/8, yet small enough to be driven by my wife on daily basis, affordable (less than $40K).

Sorry for the long posts...I guess I am just venting...I think that we will probably end up with a Pilot after all. It will be an EXL w/DVD and the extended Honda Care 7yrs/100,000 mi warranty for sure. I guess it would be comforting to hear that Honda has fixed the tranny issue for sure on the 05 Pilot's.

Spyderred. :confuse:
PS Can you tell that I am confused...

jgriff · May 2005

Worst case buy a Pilot, and if after a couple of years you start to have issues tranny or otherwise dump it. Else consider yourself lucky and drive it to your heart's content. At least you are covered for the first 3/36k.

And youre 100% correct no vehicle is perfect, some are better than others. My point will be that Honda & Toyota are NOT as great as many people perceived them to be.

I dumped my CL after many other people reported having multi transmission problems on the same car, I didnt want to be one of them. Several years later when I was in the market for an SUV, I was surprise to learn that Hondas V6 transmission problem still existed, and worse yet on NEW models, not the older ones with a few thousands miles.

isellhondas · May 2005

How about some **paragraphs***? Hard to read one continous and long post.

It has to be remembered that forums such as this attract people with problems like a magnet. The transmission problems affected only a very small percentage of owners. Something like 2% I've heard. Still too many, but the vast majority will have no troubles. Honda jumped right on the problem with the oil jet retrofit to insure a trouble free life.

And, what is a MAJOR problem for some people is of no concern to others.

As an example, someone mentioned "gas sloshing" noises under certain conditions. I first heard of this "problem" in one of the Odyssey forums here several years ago. I thought..." what are they talking about?" since I had never heard this.

Then, one quiet night I was driving an Odyssey down the hill through our parking lot, engine at idle, radio off when I heard it! Lo and behold, I heard the faint sound of gas sloshing around in the three quarters empty tank!!

Now, as an owner, would that have bothered me or been a "problem"? Not in the slightest. I would have dismissed that is a characteristic of the car.

Some things tend to get overblown here...

imidazol97 · May 2005

I think 2% is a high number for a transmission that should have been perfect when it came out.

jgriff · May 2005

And were not just talking 2% for 1-year, this has been on-going for 4-5 years.

So the warm fuzzies, are NOT so warm & fuzzy.

imidazol97 · May 2005

All car companies are going to have flaws. I believe the 2% number is truly description, considering Isell's honesty. I just believe major components should have a great quality control track record in all cars. If not, I get nervous.

If supplier parts being to have a failure rate beyond minimal, that's a supplier problems, but Honda designs and builds their engines and transmissions.

When a car sells based on their low failure rate, the trans problems have to be a concern. But Honda has a better track record on replacement and extending warranty than other companies would do.

qbrozen · May 2005

but i say even 2% is hardly an epidemic. PLUS, those folks get new trannies. Its not like they are out $30K or whatever. So what is the issue? That your car is in the shop for a few days? Seriously, go visit some other manufacturer boards to get an idea of some real horror stories. Or, at the very least, where manufacturers deny claims or deny problems exist at all (Mitsubishi or Nissan anyone?). I'm too busy worrying that I'll be one of the high number of people experiencing alignment problems on my '04 350z and not getting any help from the dealership than to worry that i'll be one of 2% of owners that will have a tranny failure in my Pilot and need to have it towed for free and fixed for fee with zero hassles.

imidazol97 · May 2005

>Seriously, go visit some other manufacturer boards
But as said here often, the negative stories tend to be blown out of proportion by postings on the site.

>tranny failure in my Pilot and need to have it towed for free and fixed for fee with zero hassles.
The other part of that is if it didn't fail you would have the use of your car for those days and you would not have a replacement transmissions that is likely to fail after about the same number of miles.

isellhondas · May 2005

The remanufactured transmissions are updated to address the parts that caused the problems in the first place.

I agree...2% is too many especially for Honda. It is funny, however. With other makes it would have been accepted as pretty normal.

imidazol97 · May 2005

>...however. With other makes it would have been accepted as pretty normal.

Two out of 100 isn't accepted as normal in other makes. And it isn't accepted for Honda. Glad to know the reman trans is sans the problems in the original design.

stever · May 2005

I wonder about that; when I skim over the articles at Warranty Week, it seems that the norm for most manufacturers is 1.5 to 2% warranty claims in general (not just trannies), with one or two pushing 4%. Apparently it's hard to get good numbers on the foreign makes though.

Steve, Host

isellhondas · May 2005

" Should have been perfect"

I agree. Every new car should be perfect and remain that way for a long time.

I think we all know, in the real world, this isn't possible. Otherwise cars would need no warranties.

And, how do we know that transmission wasn't "perfect" when the car was delivered? How do we know what kind of abuse and hard usage that Pilot could have had leading to a transmission failure. How big of a loaded trailer or how large of a boat may have been pulled.

As a 16 year old, I ruined the "perfect" transmission on my parent's two year old low mileage Buick one night. Luckilly, they never found out what happened.

I also blew up the muffler one night after a buddy taught me the joys of turning off the ignition for awhile....wait....turn it back on...KA-BOOM

Lots of fun until about the tenth time and that muffler had had enough.

sportymonk · May 2005

"... We would like to get a vehicle that can accomodate at least 7 maybe even 8 passengers ( two are kids ages 6 and 8). Also we are looking at keeping our next vehicle for at least 5-7 years, so long term reliability is a concern."
Similar here. One college kid, one HS junior, two beagles and my wife. (Hhmm, maybe I ought to rethink that order,... Two beagles, ...) Seriously, I need the room but I don't want a minivan. Also concerned about the Ody issues. I preferred the Pilot over the Ody when I drove it.

Hear your concern about the transmission issues but as others have pointed out, there aren't many posting here singing about perfect cars with never an issue; those people are out there driving them and enjoying life.

"In the past, I had a 4 cylinder Honda Accord EX, that we kept for 8 years with a 130,000 miles on the odometer. This car was one of the most reliable cars I had. Regular oil changes every 3500 mi, 2 brake jobs, 4 sets of tires, and very small minor repair items that didn't total more than $300. Bought it new for $16,300, sold it for $7750. This is why I am considering another Honda."

My 01 Impala with 80,000 miles is worth $4300 trade-in or $5100 at CarMax!! Sold my 91 Astro van with 147,000 miles for $200.

There is no perfect vehicle. - Amen! But the Pilot is close to it. Wish it had better mileage and was about 4 - 6 inches longer in the back and had another 3 inches legroom in the third row seat.

Will definitely go Pilot, just waiting for finances to improve.

dadoftay · May 2005

If you think about the problems with the Pilot and list them:
1- sloshing fuel
2- hard to start in cold "sometimes"
3- clunking sound in front end
4- transmission problems
OK, Pilots been out now for a few years with only a few changes. Off the bat the "few" changes should mean something like if it aint broke don't break it!
The sloshing fuel is that problem someone like me who is ultra-picky about their cars hears. The cold start thing is inherent to many foriegn cars. My sisters Lexus does it now and again. Big deal spin the key again and off you go. The tranny problem is able to be fixed, so people are posting.
My long winded point is I think people "expect" Honda to be perfect because that is the image that Honda has created and everyone knows someone with an Accord with 1million miles and never changed the oil blah blah blah..
Now, my GM with the leaky oil pan (no fix) and the thump in the tranny every time you come to a quick stop (no fix) and the rattles in the dash board (no fix) are par for the course. I had 160K on the clock and thought I had the best van GM rolled off the line- because I expected problems. If you understand that an Accord is produced in numbers that are probably half the Pilots production numbers, you have to understand that Honda, yes even Honda, may have a bad egg.

habitat1 · May 2005

Let me start with the fact that my last three new cars have been Honda/Acuras: 2002 S2000, 2004 TL 6-speed and 2005 MDX. So I don't need to be "sold" on the virtues of Honda, notwithstanding your Edmund's name.

The thing that bothers me about the ongoing transmission debate is the apparant lack of consistent or accurate information coming DIRECTLY FROM HONDA N.A. I, for one, would be very interested to see a complete disclosure by Honda, admitting the problem, and accurate but complete description of the cause and solution, the models affected, etc. Just come completely clean, so that potential customers know awhat the full story is from the horse's mouth. As of right now, we have to rely on bits and pieces from a lot of sources. I would think the type of disclosure I am looking for would actually help you sell Hondas (at least to intelligent buyers who respect honesty and integrity).

For instance, you stated previously that the remanufactured transmissions have been corrected for the failure problem. Yet I have a friend on his second replacement in less than 35,000 miles (2002 TL). There are numerous postings here in Edmunds of others who have been through more than one replacement transmission. My former S2000 service manager stated off the record that he would not buy an automatic equiped V-6 Honda or Acura product, with the exception of the 2005 MDX (which supposedly has a completely new transmission, but try finding that in the product brochure).

I suspect the problem is indeed far more talked about in this forum than in your average Starbucks. But for intelligent people doing their research, it does not look good for Honda to have a lot of unanswered or partially answered questions about major transmission failures running around.

Final point: I still own a 1995 Nissan Maxima w/ 153,000 miles. It's on it's orignial clutch and has only had a few relatively minor repairs (water pump, muffler, etc.), all coming after 120,000 miles. I don't buy Honda/Acura products with the idea that if something as major as the transmission fails, I should be happy with a replacement and a 7 year warranty. I buy Honda products because I expect them NOT to have major problems for 150,000+ miles. Nissan handily achieved this with my 1995 Maxima, so I don't think it's unreasonable for me to expect the same from Honda/Acura 10+ years later.

stever · May 2005

complete disclosure

Honda is one of the few auto companies that doesn't share TSB info with Alldata, so I suspect it's not in their corporate philosophy to share transmission failure rates or other details with us mere mortals. :shades:

Steve, Host

spyderred · May 2005

Very nicely worded. This is why I am having such a problem. After all the reading I have done in the last two weeks regarding Honda/Acura transmission woes, I still can't figure out for sure if the problem has been rectified completely. I know that they have implemented the additional lubrication line to the 2nd gear. However I/WE really won't know if this is the correct solution until several thousand miles are put on those vehicles to see if this fix really worked.

I guess as a manufacturer, you probably don't want to publicize the tranny problem as most customers will not do as much research as some of us do before making a decision. So the people that hear about will just avoid Honda without knowing all the facts. At least now, when I make my decision to buy a Pilot, I will know what I am getting my self into. My only concern is that the tranny issue may not be completely resolved as of yet. Maybe the trannies will need to be replaced every 30-35K miles, which would mean that I will get rid of my Pilot before the Honda Care warranty expires. The next thing is, who would want to buy a Pilot with 80-90K miles as it is approaching the end of warranty, with a potential tranny failure. Just look at the older Odyssey board, and the few people that bought older Odysseys.

Spyderred,

jm2257 · May 2005

recently had an avic-n1 navi put in. absolutely love it. however i have had poor fm reception ever since. tried a couple of antennas - one in dash and one on the windshield - without much improvement.

anyone know a way around this ?

:confuse:

allison5 · May 2005

Sorry to write another post again and again (still have not made a decision but REALLY close). I am the one that has 3 kids under age of 10 (only 1 in booster) and sometimes dog goes with us and am almost ready to get a pilot. Curious on whether people have used either tule or basket on top and which one was easier/better whatever. I am used to a GMC Yukon (not the long suburban) and have more room in that but wow is this car a piece of junk!!! I do not like American cars for many reasons but I gave it another try and I am sorry that I did. A year old GM and it's got so many rattles, idlling whatever issues and now the vent above the drivers head on ceiling is leaking again. It has already been in the shop 4 times for this and they can't fix it, everytime it rains, or the car gets washed it leaks droplets of water. I grant you it's not tons but shouldn't at all. Anyway anyone who has used these cargo things I would appreciate any feedback, I am worried abut having enough room in this car. We can't afford the car payments on Yukon now for various reasons nor the gas.

pilot seeker · May 2005

I need to purchase a full sized spare, as I will be towing a boat that fully loaded weighs about 3600 lbs.....I know I have several options; i.e. honda wheel/tire from dealer, or a knock off at local place (BJ's, Town Faire
Tire, etc)....I have Goodyear Integrity tires on my '05 Pilot (I can hear the 'oohs and ahhs'!!).......any suggestions?....I may go to Michelin Cross Terrains in the future.....unsure of what to do.......

qbrozen · May 2005

But as said here often, the negative stories tend to be blown out of proportion by postings on the site.

Right. And I've probably said it more than anyone. BUT, I think if you compare message board to message board, its fair to point out when one manufacturer has more and worse complaints than another on a per population basis.

I think as others have recently stated probably more concisely than I have, when you get used to dealing with problems on cars, dealing with so few on the Honda and having them dealt with in an open and professional manner is a nice change of pace.

habitat1 · May 2005

Isn't 3,600 lbs more than the towing capacity of the Pilot?

We are looking at getting a boat for our second home and I am now looking into equiping our MDX with a tow package. But my Acura dealership also sells Mercedes and the sales manager reminded me that when I bought the MDX several months ago, he specifically recommended against using it for repetitive towing at or near the weight limit. Although the MDX meets our other needs perfectly, the XC90 V8, LR3 and ML350 were recommended over the MDX for serious towing.

You might want to do a google search on Honda Parts on the internet. I found one site "H & A" I believe, that sells Honda and Acura accessories, including full size spares, at reasonable price discounts to list.

habitat1 · May 2005

"..when you get used to dealing with problems on cars, dealing with so few on the Honda and having them dealt with in an open and professional manner is a nice change of pace".

When one of the the roof latchs on my Honda S2000 broke 6 weeks after I bought the car, I was called by Honda executives to apologize and confirm the fix was to my satisfaction. When the replacement latch broke 3-4 weeks later, the mechanic drove to my house 20 miles away and replaced it there. Subsequently, 4 oil changes in 2.5 years. Grade: A

When I took my 2004 TL 6-speed in to the dealership for it's first 'B" service, they asked if the Brembo brakes squeeked. I replied no, and they then mentioned there had been a TSB indicating an "occasional" complaint. The service manager said to remind him when I bring the car in for it's next major service and he will replace the brake pads for free. Grade: A.

When shopping for SUV's in January and hearing that my friend's 2002 TL was back in its second transmission replacement, neither the Honda or Acura dealership could give me anything in writing that represented a full disclosure. The problem had been well known for over 2 years. I had to take the Acura dealers word that the 2005 (and possibly mid 2004+) MDX transmissions are a completely new and unaffected transmission design. The Pilot's apparantly are the old unit, "fixed". Grades: dealership B, Honda N.A.: D.

The fact that Honda got great grades for quality in the past, doesn't excuse this particular failure of disclosure. My friend had been assured by factory reps that he was getting a brand new transmission that had the flaw eliminated with a redesign. He has a masters degree in mechanincal engineering, so he knows the difference between a new, flawless tansmission and a remanufactured one with a "fix" to the flawed design. If you think the matter has been handled in an "open and professional" manner, we have very different definitions of those terms.

Two previous "A"'s and a poor grade on an issue that hopefully won't affect me isn't too bad on balance. But it's not a trend in the right direction.

isellhondas · May 2005

The deal about a "disclosure". A small percentage of cars had problems. so what? If your car is one of the ones affected, the warranty is in effect to take care of this.

I've never heard of roof latches breaking on S-2000's but you had two break. do you think Honda should disclose the fact that a potential buyer just "might" have a problem with this.

I just don't understand, that's all...

buck0086 · May 2005

Is a cargo net standard on an EX-L? What about fog lights?

bjaron · May 2005

Can't speak to the '05 but my '04 EX-L came WITH a cargo net and WITHOUT fog lights, standard.

pibbster · May 2005

Is Honda offering any special APR's for May ?

Is so, can they be found anywhere on the NET ?

Thanks !

qbrozen · May 2005

Like Isell, I'm confused as to what you are looking for. You want them to tell you that you'll never have a problem with your transmission? Seriously? Is that the goal? Because you won't get any manufacturer or any car to do that for you. And even if you did, what does it mean? Do you pull it out when the tranny fails and say "Ah-hah!"

Now, again, as far as handling problems, like I keep saying, its all based on what you know and are used to. I'm sure the Mitsu owners who had all kinds of recalls swept under the carpet by their manufacturer of choice would find Honda's handling of the situation absolutely top notch. Its all relative.

habitat1 · May 2005

Disclosure is integrity. We teach that to our our kids (hopefully). It's what we expect from those - including companies with the reputation of Honda - that we want to be able to continue to trust.

No car company is going to put out perfect products 100% of the time. But an automatic transmission that fails frequently enough to have affected several of my friends and colleagues and get ample airtime on Edmunds and other car forums is a serious issue. I don't want to buy a car that has an intrinsic design flaw in a major component. Granted, it may never fail. And granted, if it does, Honda/Acura will likely step to the plate and replace it under warranty. But I would rather avoid the problem altogether, if possible. You don't understand that?

I'm beating a dead horse, for which I apologize. I am happy with our 2005 MDX. I elected to trust the service manager who readily acknowledged the ongoing transmission problems and assured me that the 2005 MDX did indeed have a completely different transmission than the affected/previous models. He checked the parts numbers and schematic drawings himself. He was the same person that offered to replace my Brembo brakes for free, even though they weren't squeeking. That's integrity.

I suggested to the GM that the Service Manager get the sales commission, not the sales person who claimed to have "never heard" about Acura transmission problems.

I'm sorry you don't understand my position. But if it's any consolation, I apply the same standards to myself and my employees that I expect out of Honda, so at least I'm consistent.

laurheis · May 2005

I have a 2005 EX-L. I am pretty sure that the cargo net came with our car. The cargo cover is an additional cost. The fog lights are an after-market item. We purchased them and had them installed at the dealership where we purchased our car. They were EXPENSIVE, and my husband and I are not exactly thrilled with the way that the lights are attached to the bumper. They really look like an after-thought, plastic seems pretty flimsy, and they don't sit completely flush with the front bumper. My husband is happy with their performance, so it's not an issue with us and our Pilot.

kb2psm · May 2005

Hi,
I have a '95 Chevy with the factory towing package. I have not used it much, but it has come in handy. Now that I am considering a new Pilot, I would equip it with a hitch as well. I am well-versed on the types of hitches and purchase options outside of the dealers. I do not have questions about tow capacities, etc.

My question is specifically about the addition of the PS and transmission coolers in the Honda towing package. When one is NOT towing, does the extra cooling capacity offer some day-to-day advantages or in situations such as during weather extremes, while stuck in heavy stop and go traffic or when taking those frequent weekend trips to the mountains?

Thanks,
Rob

qbrozen · May 2005

You misunderstand, I guess. Its not that I don't understand WHY you want what you call "full disclosure," but what exactly does it do for you? And what do you consider full disclosure? Just admitting there is a problem?

PLUS, you keep heaping this on Honda when, apparently, the problem you had in this instance is with the salesperson. Honda has no control over its dealers, let alone the salespeople that those dealers hire. As far as Honda is concerned, the TSB and press release they put together for this issue, I think, covers disclosing it pretty well.

isellhondas · May 2005

You blame your salesperson?

Your salesperson probably didn't know anything about the fact a small percentage of Honda transmissions having problems!

The only way I even found out about this was by reading these forums. My initial thought was.." What are they talking about?"

This has nothing to do with "applying standards" or "integrity" either.

Are you saying that your salesperson should have said..." Now, before you buy this MDX, I want you to be aware that a small percentage of people have had transmission problems and you may too?"

No, I DON'T understand your position but that's O.K. too.

habitat1 · May 2005

I'm going to do my best to make this my last post of the subject.

You need to cut the crap. You have been selling Honda's for several years as I recall, and I suspect you know the product very well. The dealership I went to sells 1,500+ vehicles a year. The "small percentage of failures" means that dozens of transmssion failures are showing up every year in the service bays. Not to mention that there have been numerous recalls dating back over a year. Unless a salesperson is brand new on the job or too pre-occupied with some other activity (fill in the blank) so as not to know what is going on at the dealership, they can't plead ignorance of the problem.

I don't necessarily expect a salesperson to volunteer information about the transmission issue. But re-read my post - I asked him direct and simple questions about the product he was trying to sell me which to which he acted dumbfounded. Yet the service manager, with no commission to gain, was quick to acknowledge and answer the questions to my satisfaction.

I certainly don't think you, or other Honda salespeople, are to blame for the transmission problem itself. But if you think pleading ignorance is bliss, you are sorely mistaken. I sense that you wish salespeople were treated with more respect and porfessional courtesy. As a customer, I want to be treated with the assumption that I am intelligent and due accurate responses to my questions. It's not that damn hard to get my point if you would follow that logic.

P.S. Reminder, since it seems lost, my question was: Does this particular vehicle (2005 Pilot / MDX) have the same basic transmission that was the subject of the recalls, or is it a new / different transmission? (And show me something / anything in writing to support your answer).

tidester · May 2005

" Now, before you buy this MDX, I want you to be aware that a small percentage of people have had transmission problems and you may too?"

Perhaps Honda, Ford, Acura etc. should consider "package inserts" similar to those the pharmaceutical companies include with their aspirins and other medications which, BTW, cost a lot less than an MDX!

tidester, host

isellhondas · May 2005

And, I give up although I think the tidester's post expressed my feelings.

habitat, the average salesperson has very little contact with the shop. Unless a customer comes to them, they DON'T KNOW that some of the Accord sunroofs squesk or that a small percentage of MDX transmissions cause trouble.

I DON'T think"pleading ignorance" is bliss but try to understand, if you can, the average salesperson has no idea what go's on in the shop because they really don't care!

I'm different. I used to manage a large automotive repair facility. I spent almost twenty years in a related business where I spent a great deal of time in shops and around mechanics. The guys in our shop know me by my first name. I've been there ten years. I participate in these forums.

Still, you asked me..."Does the 2005 Pilot have the same transmission as the 2005 MDX?" I'm going to have to "plead ignorance" because I really don't know for sure! I THINK they are the same but I can't say for 100% that there aren't some small differences such as gear ratios between them.

I think this has been beaten to death enough. I'm done. Let's just get the lawyers involved and go with the "package inserts".

qbrozen · May 2005

sorry... i will also make this the last for me. i have to agree that you are putting alot of faith in salespeople. And I don't want to berate them, because there ARE some good ones, but you are talking about the same group of people who, when you approach the majority of them and ask something simple like "what size engine is in that car?" they have absolutely no clue or make it up entirely. I can't even count the number of times I've told something to a salesperson about their product and they say "oh, I didn't know that."

And, to take it a step further, when speaking of their knowledge of what goes on in the service bay, I can only compare that to my own workplace. I have no idea what goes on in the office right next to me, let alone down at the other end of the hall. So I don't expect salesfolk to know what maintenance folk are up to.

isellhondas · May 2005

In the car business there is so much turnover the average salesperson has only been in the job a short time and probably knows very little.

And, heck I get asked questions I don't know the answers to pretty often. I have to really think or go look it up. I don't simply give an answer if I really don't know.

I'll get oddball questions that I hear once a year. I can't remember everything and I'm at least a bit above average at what I do...I think!

stever · May 2005

I always feel a little bit more in control of the sale if I know (or *think* I) more about a particular car than the salesperson does. And since I'm usually just heavily researching one or two cars, and the salesperson has a bunch of models to try to keep track of, that's not so hard to do.

Here's some more food for thought before we get back to the Pilot:

Buyers Are Liars: Selling Metal in the Internet Age (Inside Line)

And about those package inserts - information you need to know, right on the vehicle you're considering. :

Crash Test Ratings May Be Included on Window Stickers (Inside Line)

Steve, Host

isellhondas · May 2005

Before going into this business I would have done something else. Standing on the sidewalk "calling ups"??

But, that's a typical store. Especially in California.

Recently, I interviewed a salesguy who worked at a nearby domestic store. I think he said they had something like 22 salespeople. He had worked there eight months and he was their second senior guy.

Now, how much product knowledge do you think HE is going to have?

Once in awhile I'll get a question that stumps me..."How many gallons does the gas tank on the Ridgeline hold?" Yes, I SHOULD know, but I don't. I get asked that maybe twice a year. I'll have to go look because I know this little Microsoft guy probably already does know and he's testing me. People do that.

durability05 · May 2005

I have a post recall Honda Pilot , build date is May, 2004. Vehicle never had a recall, so it has some sort of fix in it. The transmission is built in Japan, so my guess is that besides the design flaw, maybe there was a USA built problem too with those transmissions. It is definetely something that Honda will not want to admit. We own 3 cars, a new Focus, a Wrangler and the 04 Pilot EXL.
We have decided that the Pilot would be our longterm vehicle, so now it only is driven 10,000 miles a year, It is serviced only at the original Honda dealer it was bought. This way if something happens when the warranty is gone, it would get us in a good bargaining position for some warranty work full or partial.

spyderred · May 2005

I just took the plunge on an 05 EXL RES. Bought it Friday night. I also bought the 7yr/100K/$0 ded Honda Care, just in case. The dealer where I bought from had several in the Desert Rock EXL RES, So I picked the fresher one. It is build date March 2005. The dealer had a couple of other ones and their build date was 11/04 and 01/05. I am hoping the the mine has the "fix" in it already. Can anyone confirm from what date on has the tranny "fix" is implemented in the new vehicles. I also noticed on the sticker that my tranny was built in JAPAN. Are they all built in Japan? or Where the original 2003 trannies also built in Japan also?

Spyderred,

elliebelly · May 2005

so someone take pity on me, even though this post may be in the wrong place (the "right" place was read only). i've read through this and the comparison threads. i by golly want an suv not another minivan (although the 2002 odyssey being replaced withstood a rear collision where i was stopped and was hit by someone going 55).

my requirements: car must seat me and hubby, plus four little angels, ages 14, 12, 6 and 2. the youngest two are in big bulky britax carseats. dh says the pilot is too small for the big kids to sit in the rear sit, but darn it, i just don't want the minivan, even though the touring model is nice. dh also points out there is virtually no storage space in the back of the pilot.

thoughts? fortunately, we live about an hour from the plant in lincoln alabama, so availability is good. i really appreciate any guidance from the gurus here. i've gotta get a car this weekend.

bpwrightwv · May 2005

for clarification: who is 'dh' ?

Ford Explorer/Mercury Mountaineer and Toyota 4 runner are two other SUVs, in similar class, available with 3rd row seating. You could also go bigger with Expedition, Sequoia, etc

Honda Pilot 2003 through 2005

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