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1962 Cadillac - any driving experiences out there?

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Comments

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,003
    ...what year is your Intrepid? Jsylvester and I have Intrepids, too! Your's is an '00 too, isn't it, Jysylvester?

    I had the Catalina out on Saturday, cruising around. Put the top down and put the boot on in back, and it was perfect weather for it. Grbeck came down, and I got to show him how it chirps the back tires around 55 or so, on the 1-2 shift when you gun it ;-) We went to a little local show that had a pretty bad turnout this year, but still a few nice old cars.

    And naturally, just to humble me, the 'Cat decided not to start when it was time to leave. It did finally fire up though...just a loose battery cable.

    As for women and big convertibles...well my ex-wife always loved driving the Catalina. Good thing she didn't try to take it in the settlement!
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    My Intrepid is a '97 (the last year of the original body style I think). It's the Sport model which means it was the same engine and Autostick transmission as the ES. The Sport model doesn't have leather or the cast wheels - but it has the factory wheel mag wheel covers that I like very much (again, I think '97 was the first year for these).

    It's an "anonymous-mobile", that's for sure. But, that's not all bad.

    I'm reserving my "attention-getting" car for a 62-64 Cadillac convertible or any other full size convertible that might catch my fancy.
  • Yeah, I've got a 2000 Intrepid R/T, which is faster than I need, to be honest. Same drivetrain, brakes, and other systems as the 300M with the PHP package, but no leather.

    I took my Galaxie to the Ford cruise-in a couple of weeks ago. People were interested in it, though not sure if out of desire, or out of the fact they spent some of their childhood riding around in one. I'm thankful my vinyl interior is parchment, and not black.

    I also used to own a 69 Catalina, my first car. Was old and trashed when I got it, but for $250 in 1982, it lasted over two years.
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    When you say you're thankful you have parchment interior and not black, I'm assuming it's because parchment may stay a bit cooler?

    If so, theoretically, I would agree. However, when it's 85+ degrees and you're in the direct sun, I gotta believe hot is hot no matter what color the interior is. I know scientifically that a lighter color should be cooler to the touch, but in the direct sun, the difference can't be much more than 1-2 degrees.

    I used to think I would never want a car with black interior. But, I've mellowed somewhat. My thinking now is that I don't want to pass on buying a nice car just because it has black interior. Case in point, that '65 Olds 98 we've discussed in the other Townhall Forum.

    Whatever the interior color, if it gets too hot, I'm either going to park it in the garage or put up the top until the sun starts to set. Then, at that point, it doesn't matter what color the interior is because onlookers will be distracted by the big, stupid smile on my face as I cruise merrily down the road - hopefully with my wife by my side. Though, long rides aren't her forte as she tends to get bored pretty quick. Maybe I can lure her into taking rides by telling her I'm driving to the mall?
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,003
    ...with a black interior is that it shows dirt very quickly. I agree about the heat. I think if you have vinyl and it's exposed to the sun, you're gonna get your butt burned no matter what color it is! Once you get moving, with the top down, the interior cools off pretty quickly.

    One of the best colors for hiding dirt is beige/creme. You wouldn't believe how seedy the beige shag was in my '79 NY'er before I vaccuumed it. It's amazing how much crap that stuff can hide!
  • carnut4carnut4 Posts: 574
    When I ordered my 85 Dodge Daytona new, I ordered the garnet red, with black leather interior-without air conditioning!! Can you imagine? My Dad said, "go add that to the order before it's too late!" I took his advice, and man, am I glad I did. Numerous road trips through 90+ heat-omygod that air was a godsend. As for the black, I considered the tan leather too, but something about the color Dodge offered that year turned me off.
    Anyway, Parm, I just bought the October issue of the Old Car Trader, and in the Buick-Olds-Pontiac section, I noticed a number of interesting convertibles for sale, at what seemed like reasonable prices. You should check it out, if you haven't already. Some of the ads, of course, were dealers with websites. One particular ad I noticed was a 64 Buick Electra 225 Convertible that looked interesting. Always like that year for big Buicks-in styling, anyway.
    I'm anxious to read your post when you finally do find that special car, and tell us all about your first cruise in it, etc. As a bonafide old car nut from way back, I know the feeling, after looking for a long time, how it feels when something finally turns up that really hooks you. And, if you can get your wife involved in anyway, that'll make it even sweeter. I think if she can see and share the excitement you have when you find the right car, close the deal, and drive it for the first time, she might find an interest there that she didn't have before. Well, you could hope anyway.
    Happy hunting.
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    Anyone have experience with a black on black color combination? Here's why I'm asking.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1858074572


    This car has been on Ebay so many times it ought to have a revolving door. Take a look at the minimum bid price and you'll see why. Since I think I know a thing or three about '62-'64 Cadillac values (wink, wink), he's asking an Eldorado price for a DeVille that's not that well optioned.


    Well, whaddya know. The seller is a dealer. Gee, what a shock.

  • speedshiftspeedshift Posts: 1,598
    I have to think black is a lousy color for a convertible interior, although one of mine had a black interior and I don't remember it being a problem. Maybe the heat exhaustion is making me forget.

    On the other hand, black is a very forgiving color, especially if you're hauling kids.

    A black exterior, as everyone knows, shows dust three minutes after you wash it.

    But it is an impressive combination, especially on a luxury car.

    My favorite is red over white. Very snappy.
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    I said the seller of the black '64 DeVille convertible is a dealer. He states in his ad that he's not. So, I'll take him at his word.
  • ghuletghulet Posts: 2,628
    ...the price is already approaching silly, and his reserve hasn't been met. Of course, some people are obsessed with low mileage and original, so he may get the big bucks. Since Fall is approaching quickly, I'm guessing the market for convertibles is going to slow down somewhat, at least here in the midwest.
  • Have to say, the car is beautiful from the pictures. Again, one would think looking at it in person would have to be done before buying.

    In my case, I found the car on E-bay, but bought it after the auction was over, and I looked at it in person. The seller did get some other offers after the auction was over, but for the same money, he didn't want to hassle with an out of town buyer - logistically it was much easier. Not to mention, meeting someone face to face and building a rapport helps if any issues pop up.

    For instance, I use his mechanic for the car, so the mechanic already knows some of the repair history.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,038
    The seller's story is very shakey to say the least. If the car was stored so badly to need paint, top, mechanicals, I can only wonder what else is wrong with it. Besides, it is no longer "original" by a long shot.

    Looks like about $8,000-10,000 car all day long. The car is all "blue sky", there's not a shred of evidence to support any of the claims that I can see and quite a bit of evidence to discount the claims actually.

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  • parmparm Posts: 723
    The engine block on that black '64 Cadillac convertible is painted the wrong shade of blue. It's supposed to be a dark, navy blue and not the light blue that it has. Seems to me a competent restoration project would have considered this seemingly obvious (to a Cadillac aficionado)detail.

    I also wondered about the "in storage" story. Your value estimate of $8,000 to $10,000 sounds about right also. This is amplified by the fact that it's been on Ebay several times and never receives many bids at his entry price.

    Of course, if someone offered him $9,000 I doubt he would take it as that is a sizeable drop from his $16,400 entry price. The gap increases when you consider that his reserve is probably in the area of $18,000 to $20,000.
  • Proportionally, are there more 1960's Cadillacs around than a more plebian brand?

    The reason I ask is one could assume that since Cadillac's were expensive, somewhat exclusive vehicles, they were better cared for, and therefore a higher percentage exist today. Therefore, the supply available should be decent.

    Just as a calculation, out of around 878,000 full size Fords built in 1967, 5,161, or about 1/2 percent, were XL convertibles. If 10% exist today, around 500 could left. If 2,000 67 Deville convertibles were made (just making that number up for discussion), could one assume 50% are left, and therefore actually more convertible versions of them available than perhaps the highest produced model of 1967?

    The oil crisis of the 70's hit just about when the mid 60's cars were in the "save or crush" phase of existance, so one could surmise many of the mainstream models were sent to the recycler rather than restored.

    Also, NADA.com has a mid teens value on the above Cadillac for "average" condition.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,038
    There are probably more Cadillac convertibles than you'd think. They cranked them out at a pretty good clip, probably 20,000 a year more or less, in the 60s. Also they were more likely to be better cared for than a Ford, and more likely to be restored.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,003
    ...Cadillac built 18,200 DeVille convertibles. That was Cadillac's only 'vert in 1967, as the low-line Calais series didn't offer a convertible, and the Fleetwood was only long-wheelbase 4-doors. The Eldorado was a coupe-only that year, its first year as an FWD personal luxury coupe. Prior to that though, the Eldorado 'vert usually moved about 2000 or so units a year.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Posts: 1,704
    But the old RWD Eldo ragtop was a very costly car to begin with, right?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,038
    A '65 Eldo cost around $6,900. A base Corvette vert was about $4,300, and a Mercedes 300SE convertible about $12,000.

    As it turns out, the Vette and Benz were better deals, because they are both worth far more than a '65 Cadillac today, maybe 4 times as much.

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  • parmparm Posts: 723
    Talked to a guy in Georgia today with a '64 Deville convertible that has it listed for sale. His ad shows the engine is a 454. In 1964, every Cadillac rolled off the assembly line with a 429 - that was the only engine available that year.

    When I mentioned the typo in his ad, he seemed genuinely surprised to hear that the 454 was not available in '64. I asked if the engine was original to the car and he solemnly believed it was. I didn't want to argue with the guy on this one point, so I told him I'd fax him the spec. page off of the '64 Cadillac brochure as well as other documentation. Earlier this evening, I emailed him 4 website links showing the engine specs for '64 Cadillacs. Plus, I suggested he check the Owner's Manual and Shop Manual - all of which will confirm in a New York minute that the car originally came with a 429.

    What's more, this gentleman suggested he was a "car guy" and that he's always believed 454's were available in '64 Cadillacs. More dumb-founded I could not be.

    He's owned the car for only a year and a half (red flag?) and I believe the previous owner told him the engine was a 454. So, this guy has either been grossly misinformed or the engine is not original to the car. If the latter is the case, that could be good news for me because it would substantially hurt the value of the car. And, I told him that as politely as I could. By the way, he's asking $16,900!!! and the one photo I saw in his ad suggests this car is in no better than average condition. But, that's a different subject and I won't go into that now.

    I suspect the engine in his Caddy really is a 429 and that this guy is a bit out of touch and just doesn't know any better.

    He's sending me photos of the car and engine. In the mean time, I've suggested he contact his local Cadillac LaSalle Club chapter and find someone who can authenticate the engine.

    I only brought up this topic because the guy was convinced he had a straight-from-the assembly-line, factory documented 454 and it really threw me for a loop.

    Isn't there some kind of natural law that says before you can sell something, you first have to know what it is you're trying to sell?
  • carnut4carnut4 Posts: 574
    Good story Parm. I'm anxious to see the pictures of this car-especially the engine. Keep us posted.
    Reminds me of a guy in highschool-a braggart they used to tease, but who asked for it. He had a 56 Mercury 4door, that he claimed had a 404 Olds V8, 3x2s, and a 5.12 rear end. Complete with the sound of a Mercury motor , burning oil, through an automatic transmission.
    Did this guy with the Cad used to sell vacuum cleaners?
  • It sounds like he is not a huge Cadillac fan, and just came across the car and bought it. I would not assume he was dishonest, just not very knowledgable.
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    This guy sent me photos of the car and engine which looked like a 429 to me. But, I would trust anything I'd say! So, I forwarded the engine photos to a website message board that specializes in '63-'64 Cadillacs. Some of the participants on that board can take one of these apart in their sleep - they're that good. So far, the response indicates the car, indeed, has a Cadillac 429.

    The reason why the seller thought he had a 454 was because when he was a kid, his father in 1975 bought a '64 Cadillac convertible with a blown engine. Then had a 454 installed into it by someone at GM. Along with the engine apparently came some factory documentation which as a kid he incorrectly interpreted as being from the factory.

    So, fast-forwarding to about a year and a half ago, he bought this car to rekindle some childhood memories and naturally thought there was a 454 under the hood since that's what he remembered. Mystery solved.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,744
    A lot of Honda owners and buyers will swear their Honda has a V-4 engine in it.

    Buick used to do something kinda dumb. They would put the torque numbers on the air cleaners.

    A lot of people would swear their '65 Riviera had a "Wildcat 445" or whatever in it. they would refuse to believe it was really a 401 cubic inch engine.
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1860196944


    Well, another one got away (click on link above). The seller contacted the high bidder and talked HIM UP to $11,500 and sold the car for that amount.


    I talked to the seller when the auction was winding down and it was obvious his reserve (which was in the $12,000 to $13,000 range) wasn't going to be met. CPI's latest issue (Q4-02) shows the value of a '63 Cadillac convertible in good condition (which according to CPI represents a "very nice car") to be $8,750. So, being generous and given that this car is only about 2 hours away, I told him I'd be in the $9,000 to $10,000 range assuming the car was as good as advertised.


    Oh well, as I've said before, cars are like buses. If you miss one, another is sure to come along. They always do.


    By the way, here's a '63 Caddy convertible in Yuba City, California with an asking price (his first amendment right) of $38K. Yeah right, like it's really for sale at that price.


    http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/1/7/1762417.htm


    I'm half-tempted to call the seller and ask if he sat out in the hot California sun for a bit too long. This car has been on the market for what seems like forever. Gee, I wonder why?

  • ghuletghulet Posts: 2,628
    I do like the color combination on the '64 quite a bit, I'm a sucker for red leather (or vinyl, for that matter).

    I seem to recall seeing photos of that '63 posted here some time ago. I particularly remember this car because of the white top and black interior. Looks nice, I think it would be a bargain at a third the price, though. $38k is a pipe dream, to the moon and back. Oh yeah, and the guy can't even spell 'definitely' correctly.
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    I'm coming up for air long enough to let you guys know there are three '63/'64 Cadillac convertibles that just got thrown into the mix. They're probably long shots (aren't they always?), but I'm going to give'em a shot.

    OK. I'm going back in. Wish me luck.
  • If they work for my employer, they are probably laid off, and therefore have a "For Sale" sign on their car.

    Luckily, if my employer doesn't file their taxes, the CEO/CFO can go to jail. A little job security for me.

    I hope you find your car soon - even a less expensive/exclusive car is a blast to drive on cool fall evenings, I think you'll enjoy it.
  • ghuletghulet Posts: 2,628
    November's Car & Driver, page 104.
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    Yep, it has highlights from the 2002 Cadillac Grand National meet in Dearborn/Detroit.

    Haven't seen it yet, but have heard about it. I need to pick one up.

    Good to hear there's still a few voices out there in the wilderness.
This discussion has been closed.