Saturn ION

logic1 · January 2003

I am waiting for your eloquent defense of the Scion's center mount guages vis a vis the Ion's.

Drivinisfun: 0% for 60 months is available on All GM products, not only the ION. The Delta platform is a US design. It is not used by any GM Europe cars. There was talk of using it with the new Astra, but that was squelched in favor of the less expensive platform developed for the new Fiat Stilo.

dindak · January 2003

You really should understand that you don't pop into a forum and tell people what they are discussing is ugly, crap, hideous or whatever else you called it. You haven't even tried an ION and you are bashing it in front of people that are interested in it.

If you have any understanding of human nature you should be able to understand why people are upset with you. Like was said earlier, it would be like me going into the Mini forum out of the blue and telling you the Mini is ugly, unreliable and crap.

You opinion on the ION's looks has a ZERO correlation to anything.

dindak · January 2003

It's ok in the Scion as it's a Toyota product.

drivinisfun · January 2003

I will try the ION just for kicks. I am sure the ECOTEC 2.2L powerplant is great as well as the handling and breaking. I just can't get over the interior/exterior styling.

My problem is not with the inner guts, is with the candy wrapper and unfortunately this is what most people see and get exposed to when shopping for a new car.

saturnfreak01 · January 2003

I agree with Dindak

drivinisfun · January 2003

Any comments about the MINI's safety ratings?

You seem to be all of a sudden very silent about it.

LOL.

saturnfreak01 · January 2003

I was referring to the NHTSA bumper tests that appeared on dateline/ a few weeks ago.. The MINI, sustained FRAME damage as a result of a 5 mile per hour offset crash.

www.dateline.msnbc.com

LOL

Now, lets talk about why the poor mini was excluded from the top ten at car an driver...oh wait, I don't care why it was excluded.

drivinisfun · January 2003

You are spinning. Answer the question...why most Saturn products don't earn top safety ratings?

Car & Driver? I have yet to see any Saturn product ever been mentioned in that list.

Also show me where does in the IIHS.ORG website states about the Frame damage at 5MPH? No, news clips don't count.

Pretty weak comebacks I might add.

saturnfreak01 · January 2003

The Saturn S Series, starting with the 1999 model year received double five stars for its frontal crash test rating..

As far as the come backs go, maybe, just maybe my comments as to the MINI's exclusion from the top 10 (right fully so) touched a nerve..

But, if I bought a fad car, it may bother me as well.

drivinisfun · January 2003

The more severe 40MPH offset tests conducted at IIHS don't correlate with the "Double 5 star" results claimed in the '99 Saturn S Series per NHTSA.

Hit a nerve?

The MINI exhibits a level of engineering, handling dynamics, quality, looks, cool factor, innovation, performance and resale value that none Saturn or GM product can ever dream of matching.

When was the last time complete strangers gave you the thumbs up when driving a Saturn? When was the last time people approached you to ask you about your "Cool" Saturn?

Enthusiast Magazine opinions are just like you say, opinions. You take them for what they are worth. Real world data proves otherwise.

Oh and the MINI has captured every top spot in the SCCA Solo I and Solo II (H-Class) autocrossing race classifications.

No Saturns to be seen there either (Not surprising).

Bye, bye amigo, its been a real pleasure debating with you.

Enjoy your spacey looking Saturns....

saturnfreak01 · January 2003

Thank you , I and the nearly 2.2 million Saturn owners will continue to enjoy our cars, and our Saturn retailers.

As far as your opinions go, they will be placed in the appropriate spot, but I cannot say where for it will go against edmunds.com member guidelines.

logic1 · January 2003

Wait a minute Drivinisfun: I like the mini. It is a nice car. But no GM can come close. Go to the many sites on the LA autoshow and look at the photos on the XLR. That is cool by any definition. And people who drive it will receive muito thumbs up. Probably find more significant others as well.

drivinisfun · January 2003

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/roadtests/2003/january/0301_roadtest_ion.xml

regfootball · January 2003

haven't seen the Scion dash but to me the whole Scion thing is a friggin waste anyways.

Yes you all know I hate the Ion dash so I won't rant off more about it here.

Someone mentioned something about a candy wrapper above. Yeah, the wrapper's not pretty.....so even if the car is good it will most likely not sell as well as it could have if it was a decent design. And C/D don't seem to like it....I haven't driven it but am terribly appalled by the design I don't think I will bother.

My summation is that its a huge wasted opportunity for Saturn, regardless if the car is any good or not, cause the design and interior are so stinking bizarre no one would drive one without checking in with the head alien's approval first.

logic1 · January 2003

Yes, Car and driver has a luke warm response to the car. But this February's Road and Track ION first drive is actually quite positive. And I note with Toyota making more and more center IP cars, R&T did not bash the ION's. R&T did bash the steering wheel.

dindak · January 2003

logic : Like I said, it's ok for Toyota to have a center IP. For Saturn or any other domestic, it's all wrong and a travesty.

reg : I totally agree on the Scion thing. Vehicles look like crap. Disagree with you on the ION, but that's old news.

drivinisfun : What is the point of you being here? If you hate the car so much go do something else. You and regfootball should start an I hate IONs forum.

bigdaddycoats · January 2003

go to media.gm.com and you can find all of the current financing rates that just came out. I believe that is the proper web address.

afk_x · January 2003

Why doesn't the S or L series do better in the 40 MPH off set test? Very simple. They weren't designed to. Today the 40 MPH offset crash test is an important test to do well on, and smart manufacturers specifically design their vehicles to do well in this test. This is a good thing, because in the end it leads to safer vehicles for all of us. Another important test which compliments this is the goverments frontal and side impact ratings.

The S series was designed back in the late 80's. Back then the S series was one of the safest small cars made. In fact in some ways it still is. The S series was the first compact to earn dual 5 star safety ratings for frontal impact. This happened in 1999.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/749.html

The L series is based on the Opel Vectra platform stretched to suit American taste. This platform was designed in the early 90s. Before the offset crash test was an important test.

If you look at actual data from real world collsions you will find that the S series and the L series outperform every vehicle in their pricerange for injury, collision and theft claims.

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/ictl_4dr.htm

This is why Saturns cost less to insure than other similar vehicles. In expensive states like California this can add up to big savings.

I haven't see it yet, but apparently the upcoming consumer reports issue makes the VUE one of their top picks for safety. They look at all crash tests results and then factor in their own emergency handling tests.

This isn't a Mini Cooper forum, but allow me to digress. The Mini is a niche vehicle. Very nice handling from what I read. Not something that most people are going to want to buy. Not now, not ever. As for coolness factor it will be much like a Miata. Hot now, and maybe for another six months. After that its back to niche status. This means resale value will not be stellar. Just like nearly every other vehicle made, even the Mini will depreciate. Finally, no doubt you're aware of why the Mini Cooper only recieved 4 stars while the 80's designed Saturn S series got more. If you are please enlighten us.

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/ictl_4dr.htm

Thats at only 35 MPH.

Next time you are going to come in here just remember. The Saturn white knight will be here defending truth

afk_x · January 2003

The ION is 0.0% APR up to 60 months on all versions.

On the ION 1 ONLY you can get 1.9% for 72 months.

This does not mean the ION is a flop. This means that GM is on a mission to gain marketshare. Specifically they are trying to gain this at the expense of Ford who is hurting somewhat right now.

With how cheap money is right now it cost GM comparably very little to offer 0% APR.

Its far to early to know if the ION is going to be a sales winner. I do know that thus far it has been selling very well and the public at large has no idea it even exists. The ads will start on the 9th.

afk_x · January 2003

I have yet to meet someone "in real life" who doesn't like the way the ION looks on the outside. Some people don't care for the roof rails, some don't care for the center IP, and some don't like the interior. Still the general consensus of everyone who has seen it is that it is good looking.

The people I have sold them to have reported to me that they have received many inquiries and compliments.

We had one on display at the local mall and reception by the populance was extremely positive on the looks and pricing.

As for myself, I have an L200 with tint and aftermarket wheels and have recieved quite a few unsolicated compliments by strangers on its looks.

Of course looks are totally subjective so if someone doesn't like it thats no skin off my back. I can't stand the looks of the new Accord. Thats why they call it taste I suppose.

bigdaddycoats · January 2003

Personally I like the looks of the ION. Just my opinion but it looks just as good as the Civic and the Focus.
The center dash is different but wouldn't deter me from buying one.
My complaint is that of the size of the steering wheel - too small. I would guess though that most of the intended buyers will not mind. However, with the performance version of the coupe I would hope that Saturn will use a different steering wheel. I could be wrong but it seems to me that the intended buyer (tuner crowd) will want a more substantial wheel to grab.

300silverbulit · January 2003

I like saturns. Our L300 is our third since 97'.
I think the rear quarter panels on the sedan with the lack of a window look out of place. The ION 3's cloth seats are just as bad. It wouldn't keep me from getting a ION anyway. As I am looking more at the coupe. I actually like the steering wheel. My knees where always right up to the steering wheel in our S sereis cars and my cavalier now. I hope they keep the small steering wheel.

I would also like rear disc brakes.

lngtonge18 · January 2003

Now, wait a minute! You can't claim the late-80's S-series platform was not designed to withstand the offset-impact and than praise it for its NHTSA 5 star rating. If the S-series had been designed from the beginning to be a 5 star car, than it would have received 5 stars beginning in 91. Fact is, the S-series's structure was strengthened in 1996 and further improvements were made up to 1999 that allowed it to earn 5 stars BEGINNING in 1999. By this time, all cars had the offset-impact test in their sight lines, so there is no reason why Saturn could not have designed it to do better in this test. They improved the head-on over the years, why not the offset? By your own words, I guess Saturn wasn't one of the smart companies. By the way, the Saturn was not a class leader in safety in the early days. Guess what?? The Hyundai Excel, yes, that car everybody loves to make fun of, earned 4 stars for driver and 5 stars for passenger way back in 1991, compared to the Saturn's 3 stars. Interesting eh?

As for the L-series, your excuse is poor to say the least. Saturn modified the platform for L-series duty. There is no reason they could not have designed it to be safer in the offset impact as well, especially considering the car was introduced in 1999, well after the test had started.

Hmm...who's providing safety facts and fiction now?

lngtonge18 · January 2003

By the way, the Saturn S was NOT the first small car to get 2 5-star ratings! The 1991 Ford Escort 2 door beat it to it.

saturnfreak01 · January 2003

Thanks for pointing that out ingtong18, lets talk about your Saturn.. oh wait, you don't own one do you?

lngtonge18 · January 2003

No, dont own one. I don't belong to the "family". Darn, woe is me!

Seriously though, when someone makes false statements and uses logic that doesn't add up, you have to expect them to be corrected, whether that person owns the car or not. Just like how you needed to be corrected trying to make the Mini sound like an unsafe car due to a 5 mph impact, when it in fact did better than any Saturn product in the offset-impact. Can't people in this forum just be a man about things and admit they were wrong or does everyone have to pout and claim we are all Saturn haters? I don't hate Saturn. I just can't stand it when certain people try to influence others with their untrue facts about cars. So keep it to facts, and you won't have to corrected.

saturnfreak01 · January 2003

"No, dont own one. I don't belong to the "family". Darn, woe is me! "

Nuff said

afk_x · January 2003

I learned something new today. Weird the Escort 4 dr is rated dual 3 stars in 1999, but the 2 door escort is 5 stars in 1991.

Although my facts were wrong in the case of proclaiming the S series the first the rest of my post still stands unchallenged.

You're going to have to do better than that...

afk_x · January 2003

Our first weekend of zero percent the ION is flying off the shelves. We sold 4 to dealership employees alone, all of which previously would not consider a Saturn. Talking to them about why they got an ION guess what they they all said.

Looks and no interest.

logic1 · January 2003

http://www.autonews.com/files/2003_detroit/03detroitshowart/Nissan/Quest/

Click the photo links near the bottom for the interior shots.

dindak · January 2003

Looks like Mr drivinisfun is gone. He certainly did make this forum lively.

0% doesn't cost manufacturers much when the prime lending rate is only 2-3%. Gets people in the door now and when the economy gets better and the war is done with, you will see incentives come off slowly.

Center IPs will become more common as manufacturers are trying to win over younger buyers who look for something different or cool. My brother-in-law's girl friend is 19 and she thinks center IPs are "neat". May not appeal to everyone, personally I don't mind them.

vcjumper · January 2003

My goodness I yelped in agony when I saw some side exterior shots of the Quest.

regfootball · January 2003

Its ugly, inside and out and the center gauges rot on that thing too

dindak · January 2003

If you have a PC at work is the monitor right in front of you or off to the left or the right? I know in our office every single PC monitor is off to the left or right of where you sit facing at the desk. I also know that most other offices I have been in have the same set up. I have never heard 1 complaint about this. How is this different than having a IP off to the right?

BTW.. your center IP horse has been dead for months now.

regfootball · January 2003

oh geeeeezzzzzz......everybody EVERY SINGLE PERSON here has their monitor RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE KEYBOARD STRAIGHT IN FRONT OF THE PERSON........

I have never known anyone in the places I have worked that has had their monitor off to the left or right.

My business is cad and graphics heavy.....I'd think if offsetting the screen was a better way I'd had seen it SOMEWHERE before. My 21" trinitron is right smack dab in front of me.

Do the video game buffs offset their TV's to the left or right?

Do they make laptops so the screen is off to the left or right? Is the swingarm on an Imac on ceter with the screen or off to one side?

pat · January 2003

Okay folks, let's give it a rest.

We've been all over the map here lately and some of us are having difficulty remembering the civility and respect requirements in the Town Hall.

Calm down and stick to the subject. It's really kind of silly to be at each other's throats simply because we have different views of this vehicle and the world in general.

What a boring world it would be if we all held the same opinions about everything, yes?

Thanks for your cooperation.

birdman579 · January 2003

I'm a long time Saturn owner and supporter (owned a 93 SL2 since new, 136K miles). Overall, its been a great car and still has plenty of life in it. I figure 200K miles is not out of the question, 150K miles will be easy. And its a 10-year old car that is still fun to drive. But enough about my car...

I stopped by the local Saturn dealer to have some brake work done and wanted to check out the new ION. I was EXTREMELY skeptical about the styling, fit and finish, and especially the center-mounted instrument cluster. Wow, was I ever wrong. The ION is a very nice car. The styling is much better in person and darker colors don't show some of the odd cut lines. The inside was also very impressive. I might be going out on a limb here, but the center mounted instruments are possibly better. They're so natural to glance at and nothing ever obstructs the view (i. e. arms or steering wheel spokes while turning). The overall look of the interior is very stylish and quite futuristic, a welcome change to the dark, dated look of the outgoing S-series. The look of the steering wheel will take some getting used to (the feel is perfect though) and the 4-spoke wheels would not be my first choice. However, for all you skeptics out there (I was one of you), you must go to the dealer yourself! You'll be impressed.

pat · January 2003

We are going to stick to the topic.

Off-topic messages have now and will continue to be removed.

imaddikt · January 2003

Right now the financing is 0% for up to 60 months on the ION's. It is 1.9% for up to 72 months for he ION 1. The VUE's are now 0% for 36 months, 2.9% for 48 months and 3.9% for 60 months. The 2003 L-series are 0% for 60 months as are the 2002 S-series--which all have market adjustments on them. These rates were in effect as of January 3, 2003. Hope this helps anyone who wants to know exactly what the rates are now. The quad coupes are due to be on the lots in the next month, so keep an eye out. Saturn has now started posting ads for the ION's since the 0% has gone into effect. They were waiting for some of the 2002's to get sold. There were still pretty many left, and they wanted to focus on them to get them off the lot so they could move onto the ION's--which is what they are doing now.

As far as the Ion bodystyle--my opinion is that it is pretty cool--I guess it is because it is so different. But everyone is going to love or hate something about every vehicle on the road. It is inevitable. So far we have gotten a really good response on the ION's at our retail facility. I agree that there are many people who don't like the looks, but amazingly enough, I have yet to meet one of those people.

I have had my ION3 for 2 months and I haven't had one complaint. The steering wheel is much better to handle because it makes it easier to turn without your knees bumping the bottom of it. the dash is easy to see--almost more natural to look at rather than constantly glancing down through the steering wheel around my wrist to see how fast I am going. The ION even handles great in the snow--which we have had a ton of here in the past week. I am not sure what the crash ratings were on the ION--has anyone seen or heard?

dindak · January 2003

I am surprised they have 0% financing on a car they haven't even advertised yet.

I know the small car market is VERY competitive and everyone aside from Toyota and Honda seems to have 0% on the small cars now, though even Toyota has 0.9% on Echo.

drivinisfun · January 2003

Saturn has hit the nail on the head with the ION styling...it is clearly aimed at previous Saturn owners who love the controversial looks of these cars.

BTW, MINI has been awarded "North American Car of the Year" in Detroit this morning.

Where are the award winning Saturns.

Bye.

regfootball · January 2003

where........

dindak · January 2003

I seem to recall the Mini getting recalled recently. Have not seen the ION recalled yet. Given the Mini costs thousands of dollars more than an ION..

vuefor2 · January 2003

Well we decided to go with an Ion 2 last night.

Paid normal Saturn no haggle price of $16120 incl destination, ABS, and convenience package.

We were going to put down about $6000, but decided on only $1000 since we got 0.00% financing for 60 months.

We will pick up our car on Thursday. Can't wait!

dindak · January 2003

Let us know how you like it.

imaddikt · January 2003

Just out of curiosity, why did you decide on the ION2 when you could have gotten the ION 3 for about $400 more--and only about $7 more a month? It includes so much more standard on it, including the convenience package... Still a great car though!

Just to let everyone know, the ION has been named the sponsor of the Survivor 6 series. It will be featured in the last two episodes of the show. They are offering a special DVD if you visit your local retail facility that includes profiles of contestants, interviews, footage, and a 60 second version of the ION "childhood" spot. It will also take you to the Survivor 6 website where you can register to win a new Saturn ION. Saturn will also be sponsoring the Survivor online fantasy game. Th DVD's have not been released yet, but I will be sure to let you know when they do.

Dindak--they have started advertising the ION. I have seen commecials and also billboards on highways. They started them before the 0% took effect.

vocus · January 2003

Congrats! Glad you finally decided on the car. If you don't mind us asking, what was the trade on the Civic (since they are supposedly the best in that area next to a Jetta). Enjoy your new car!

vuefor2 · January 2003

Vocus :: We still have the Civic. I will be selling it to my younger brother (18) for a very fair price to be determined. It's been well cared for so I'm sure it will still run for another 50K.

Imaddikt :: Didn't really look at the Ion 3, they didn't even have one on the lot. We really wanted to stay in the under $16000 range and this model priced out right around our budget max with the ABS so we bought.

If all goes well, we will pick it up tomorrow. I'll have to get a digital camera and post pictures some day.

lngtonge18 · January 2003

My Saturn dealer is advertising heavily on the radio and finally started mentioning the Ion. 0% is available on all Saturns except the Vue and a special 199 lease deal just started on the Ion (not sure which model or how much down). I have yet to see a commercial on tv for the Ion.

soggydog · January 2003

I saw my first ION commerical today, not impressed. The shot from the inside shows the center instrument panel, Yuck! and the outside shots shows off the large gaps between the doors. All the good stuff.

Saturn ION

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