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Saturn ION

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Comments

  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    I am waiting for your eloquent defense of the Scion's center mount guages vis a vis the Ion's.

    Drivinisfun: 0% for 60 months is available on All GM products, not only the ION. The Delta platform is a US design. It is not used by any GM Europe cars. There was talk of using it with the new Astra, but that was squelched in favor of the less expensive platform developed for the new Fiat Stilo.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    You really should understand that you don't pop into a forum and tell people what they are discussing is ugly, crap, hideous or whatever else you called it. You haven't even tried an ION and you are bashing it in front of people that are interested in it.

    If you have any understanding of human nature you should be able to understand why people are upset with you. Like was said earlier, it would be like me going into the Mini forum out of the blue and telling you the Mini is ugly, unreliable and crap.

    You opinion on the ION's looks has a ZERO correlation to anything.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    It's ok in the Scion as it's a Toyota product.
  • I will try the ION just for kicks. I am sure the ECOTEC 2.2L powerplant is great as well as the handling and breaking. I just can't get over the interior/exterior styling.

    My problem is not with the inner guts, is with the candy wrapper and unfortunately this is what most people see and get exposed to when shopping for a new car.
  • I agree with Dindak
  • Any comments about the MINI's safety ratings?

    You seem to be all of a sudden very silent about it.

    LOL.
  • I was referring to the NHTSA bumper tests that appeared on dateline/ a few weeks ago.. The MINI, sustained FRAME damage as a result of a 5 mile per hour offset crash.

    www.dateline.msnbc.com

    LOL

    Now, lets talk about why the poor mini was excluded from the top ten at car an driver...oh wait, I don't care why it was excluded.
  • You are spinning. Answer the question...why most Saturn products don't earn top safety ratings?

    Car & Driver? I have yet to see any Saturn product ever been mentioned in that list.

    Also show me where does in the IIHS.ORG website states about the Frame damage at 5MPH? No, news clips don't count.

    Pretty weak comebacks I might add.
  • The Saturn S Series, starting with the 1999 model year received double five stars for its frontal crash test rating..

    As far as the come backs go, maybe, just maybe my comments as to the MINI's exclusion from the top 10 (right fully so) touched a nerve..

    But, if I bought a fad car, it may bother me as well.
  • The more severe 40MPH offset tests conducted at IIHS don't correlate with the "Double 5 star" results claimed in the '99 Saturn S Series per NHTSA.

    Hit a nerve?

    The MINI exhibits a level of engineering, handling dynamics, quality, looks, cool factor, innovation, performance and resale value that none Saturn or GM product can ever dream of matching.

    When was the last time complete strangers gave you the thumbs up when driving a Saturn? When was the last time people approached you to ask you about your "Cool" Saturn?

    Enthusiast Magazine opinions are just like you say, opinions. You take them for what they are worth. Real world data proves otherwise.

    Oh and the MINI has captured every top spot in the SCCA Solo I and Solo II (H-Class) autocrossing race classifications.

    No Saturns to be seen there either (Not surprising).

    Bye, bye amigo, its been a real pleasure debating with you.

    Enjoy your spacey looking Saturns....
  • Thank you , I and the nearly 2.2 million Saturn owners will continue to enjoy our cars, and our Saturn retailers.

    As far as your opinions go, they will be placed in the appropriate spot, but I cannot say where for it will go against edmunds.com member guidelines.
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    Wait a minute Drivinisfun: I like the mini. It is a nice car. But no GM can come close. Go to the many sites on the LA autoshow and look at the photos on the XLR. That is cool by any definition. And people who drive it will receive muito thumbs up. Probably find more significant others as well.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    haven't seen the Scion dash but to me the whole Scion thing is a friggin waste anyways.

    Yes you all know I hate the Ion dash so I won't rant off more about it here.

    Someone mentioned something about a candy wrapper above. Yeah, the wrapper's not pretty.....so even if the car is good it will most likely not sell as well as it could have if it was a decent design. And C/D don't seem to like it....I haven't driven it but am terribly appalled by the design I don't think I will bother.

    My summation is that its a huge wasted opportunity for Saturn, regardless if the car is any good or not, cause the design and interior are so stinking bizarre no one would drive one without checking in with the head alien's approval first.
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    Yes, Car and driver has a luke warm response to the car. But this February's Road and Track ION first drive is actually quite positive. And I note with Toyota making more and more center IP cars, R&T did not bash the ION's. R&T did bash the steering wheel.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    logic : Like I said, it's ok for Toyota to have a center IP. For Saturn or any other domestic, it's all wrong and a travesty.

    reg : I totally agree on the Scion thing. Vehicles look like crap. Disagree with you on the ION, but that's old news.

    drivinisfun : What is the point of you being here? If you hate the car so much go do something else. You and regfootball should start an I hate IONs forum.
  • go to media.gm.com and you can find all of the current financing rates that just came out. I believe that is the proper web address.
  • afk_xafk_x Posts: 393
    Why doesn't the S or L series do better in the 40 MPH off set test? Very simple. They weren't designed to. Today the 40 MPH offset crash test is an important test to do well on, and smart manufacturers specifically design their vehicles to do well in this test. This is a good thing, because in the end it leads to safer vehicles for all of us. Another important test which compliments this is the goverments frontal and side impact ratings.

    The S series was designed back in the late 80's. Back then the S series was one of the safest small cars made. In fact in some ways it still is. The S series was the first compact to earn dual 5 star safety ratings for frontal impact. This happened in 1999.

    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/749.html

    The L series is based on the Opel Vectra platform stretched to suit American taste. This platform was designed in the early 90s. Before the offset crash test was an important test.

    If you look at actual data from real world collsions you will find that the S series and the L series outperform every vehicle in their pricerange for injury, collision and theft claims.

    http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/ictl_4dr.htm

    This is why Saturns cost less to insure than other similar vehicles. In expensive states like California this can add up to big savings.

    I haven't see it yet, but apparently the upcoming consumer reports issue makes the VUE one of their top picks for safety. They look at all crash tests results and then factor in their own emergency handling tests.

    This isn't a Mini Cooper forum, but allow me to digress. The Mini is a niche vehicle. Very nice handling from what I read. Not something that most people are going to want to buy. Not now, not ever. As for coolness factor it will be much like a Miata. Hot now, and maybe for another six months. After that its back to niche status. This means resale value will not be stellar. Just like nearly every other vehicle made, even the Mini will depreciate. Finally, no doubt you're aware of why the Mini Cooper only recieved 4 stars while the 80's designed Saturn S series got more. If you are please enlighten us.

    http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/ictl_4dr.htm

    Thats at only 35 MPH.

    Next time you are going to come in here just remember. The Saturn white knight will be here defending truth

    :)
  • afk_xafk_x Posts: 393
    The ION is 0.0% APR up to 60 months on all versions.

    On the ION 1 ONLY you can get 1.9% for 72 months.

    This does not mean the ION is a flop. This means that GM is on a mission to gain marketshare. Specifically they are trying to gain this at the expense of Ford who is hurting somewhat right now.

    With how cheap money is right now it cost GM comparably very little to offer 0% APR.

    Its far to early to know if the ION is going to be a sales winner. I do know that thus far it has been selling very well and the public at large has no idea it even exists. The ads will start on the 9th.
  • afk_xafk_x Posts: 393
    I have yet to meet someone "in real life" who doesn't like the way the ION looks on the outside. Some people don't care for the roof rails, some don't care for the center IP, and some don't like the interior. Still the general consensus of everyone who has seen it is that it is good looking.

    The people I have sold them to have reported to me that they have received many inquiries and compliments.

    We had one on display at the local mall and reception by the populance was extremely positive on the looks and pricing.

    As for myself, I have an L200 with tint and aftermarket wheels and have recieved quite a few unsolicated compliments by strangers on its looks.

    Of course looks are totally subjective so if someone doesn't like it thats no skin off my back. I can't stand the looks of the new Accord. Thats why they call it taste I suppose.
  • Personally I like the looks of the ION. Just my opinion but it looks just as good as the Civic and the Focus.
    The center dash is different but wouldn't deter me from buying one.
    My complaint is that of the size of the steering wheel - too small. I would guess though that most of the intended buyers will not mind. However, with the performance version of the coupe I would hope that Saturn will use a different steering wheel. I could be wrong but it seems to me that the intended buyer (tuner crowd) will want a more substantial wheel to grab.
  • I like saturns. Our L300 is our third since 97'.
    I think the rear quarter panels on the sedan with the lack of a window look out of place. The ION 3's cloth seats are just as bad. It wouldn't keep me from getting a ION anyway. As I am looking more at the coupe. I actually like the steering wheel. My knees where always right up to the steering wheel in our S sereis cars and my cavalier now. I hope they keep the small steering wheel.

    I would also like rear disc brakes.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Now, wait a minute! You can't claim the late-80's S-series platform was not designed to withstand the offset-impact and than praise it for its NHTSA 5 star rating. If the S-series had been designed from the beginning to be a 5 star car, than it would have received 5 stars beginning in 91. Fact is, the S-series's structure was strengthened in 1996 and further improvements were made up to 1999 that allowed it to earn 5 stars BEGINNING in 1999. By this time, all cars had the offset-impact test in their sight lines, so there is no reason why Saturn could not have designed it to do better in this test. They improved the head-on over the years, why not the offset? By your own words, I guess Saturn wasn't one of the smart companies. By the way, the Saturn was not a class leader in safety in the early days. Guess what?? The Hyundai Excel, yes, that car everybody loves to make fun of, earned 4 stars for driver and 5 stars for passenger way back in 1991, compared to the Saturn's 3 stars. Interesting eh? :)

    As for the L-series, your excuse is poor to say the least. Saturn modified the platform for L-series duty. There is no reason they could not have designed it to be safer in the offset impact as well, especially considering the car was introduced in 1999, well after the test had started.

    Hmm...who's providing safety facts and fiction now? :)
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    By the way, the Saturn S was NOT the first small car to get 2 5-star ratings! The 1991 Ford Escort 2 door beat it to it.
  • Thanks for pointing that out ingtong18, lets talk about your Saturn.. oh wait, you don't own one do you?
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    No, dont own one. I don't belong to the "family". Darn, woe is me!

    Seriously though, when someone makes false statements and uses logic that doesn't add up, you have to expect them to be corrected, whether that person owns the car or not. Just like how you needed to be corrected trying to make the Mini sound like an unsafe car due to a 5 mph impact, when it in fact did better than any Saturn product in the offset-impact. Can't people in this forum just be a man about things and admit they were wrong or does everyone have to pout and claim we are all Saturn haters? I don't hate Saturn. I just can't stand it when certain people try to influence others with their untrue facts about cars. So keep it to facts, and you won't have to corrected.
  • "No, dont own one. I don't belong to the "family". Darn, woe is me! "

    Nuff said
  • afk_xafk_x Posts: 393
    I learned something new today. Weird the Escort 4 dr is rated dual 3 stars in 1999, but the 2 door escort is 5 stars in 1991.

    Although my facts were wrong in the case of proclaiming the S series the first the rest of my post still stands unchallenged.

    You're going to have to do better than that...

    :)
  • afk_xafk_x Posts: 393
    Our first weekend of zero percent the ION is flying off the shelves. We sold 4 to dealership employees alone, all of which previously would not consider a Saturn. Talking to them about why they got an ION guess what they they all said.

    Looks and no interest.
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    http://www.autonews.com/files/2003_detroit/03detroitshowart/Nissan/Quest/


    Click the photo links near the bottom for the interior shots.

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