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2003 Silhouette = 0
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Twice in 23 years screams for stow and go.
Or, 3 times.
I've removed the 2nd row seats about 10-15 times in 2 years, usually to haul stuff
Does that matter when you have 2-3 kids, like you said earlier? Carseats & boosters don't notice seat comfort...
We also have an 05 Nissan Quest used for work and family. The middle row folds down almost flat with the push of a latch. The seats are folded and unfolded regularly.
Neither of our vans have split 3rd rows, nor do we miss this particular "feature"
Stow N Go owners (and other DCX van owners apparently) seem to take out their second row seats more often than other minivan owners.
How about this survey question:
How many times have you wished your van had a second row bench seat instead of bucket seats? And if your van allowed you to slide the second row bucket seats together, would you?
My answer: About 0 times but occasionally I do like sliding together the second row buckets just to change things up a little
Honda Odyssey owners have a very sophisticated sense of humor.
I don't; but my wife does. When we are going somewhere without the kids, we take my Celica.
"I have stowed both rows 5 times for just furniture hauling in the last six months. Saves me the delivery fee."
My folks live less than a mile away and have a truck. And two trailors. So no, we've had no need to use the van for hauling. Which is why I've said that FOR ME, sto'n'go wouldn't be useful. Which is also why I've said that we've never had any need WHATSOEVER to remove either one or both 2nd row seats.
You've saved the delivery fee on furniture delivery 5 times in 6 months? How much furniture are you buying anyway? (BTW - if desired, we COULD haul furniture in the Ody by simply removing the 2nd row seats. It's really NOT all that difficult to do; we can't just go buy a bedroom suite on a whim. Bummer.)
"Does that matter when you have 2-3 kids, like you said earlier? Carseats & boosters don't notice seat comfort..."
Since:
1) we tend to keep our vehicles for a minium of 8 years, and...
2) our kids will be out of their booster seats in 1-1/2 to 2 years....
Yes. Seat comfort without carseats/boosters DID matter when we were shopping. Are you acknowledging that the 2nd row seat comfort in the DCX is less than that of the Ody?
All mid 90s to about 2001 Dodge/Chryslers had very poor headlights. Thats what happens when you go for style over function. It won't happen with the Germans involved.
1) we tend to keep our vehicles for a minium of 8 years, and...
2) our kids will be out of their booster seats in 1-1/2 to 2 years....
Yes. Seat comfort without carseats/boosters DID matter when we were shopping. Are you acknowledging that the 2nd row seat comfort in the DCX is less than that of the Ody?"
I don't know if they are or not, since I don't sit there and don't have sto N Go. I have heard that you sacrifice some comfort w/ Sto N Go. Which I personally think is moot for most minivan buyers because it only matters if you are sitting ADULTS there regularly. And the whole seat comfort thing doesn't mean much to me. I don't think I've ever been bothered by a seat. Maybe the legroom, but the design of the seat, nah...
I think that the Odyssey has the best seating arrangement, because you can keep the 2nd row seats apart if you want, or together as a bench. But if my wife & infant sit in the second row, we can put the other kids in the 3rd row and they'll have easy access to the 3rd row if we have the 2nd row 2-seat bench. With the 2nd row separate chairs, the kids would have to go across and then in-between. Not a big deal, but easier just to shoot right into the 3rd row.
And for the rare circumstances that I need to carry 8 passengers (maybe a few times each year when we have guests), the Odyssey's extra middle 2nd row seat would be useful. The Sienna has a 2nd row 3-person bench option, but I wouldn't want that all the time if I was using the 3rd row all of the time. Not too convenient.
For me, the stowNgo option wouldn't be worth it. Again, the reality is when I do need to haul large items, it's not a surprise. I'm not just in a store and POOF, decide to buy something too big to fit without removing the 2nd row. But I would miss the 2nd row flexibility if I did have stowNgo. Maybe when it comes out with the unstowed slideing option with a 3 seat 2nd row option, then I'll take it.
YES! Exactly. kfdmed seems to think the only way to store seats in order to use the cargo capacity of a van is to flip them into the floor.
Is sto'n'go the EASIEST way to store the 2nd row? Sure. But all the main contenders have the capacity of remove the 2nd row for cargo hauling.
I suppose prospective owners simply need to honestly assess the anticipated frequency of 2nd row seat removal and balance that against possible seat comfort issues and loss of seating flexibility (2nd row bench with wide access aisle to 3rd row).
But again, on a broad perspective, I'd still say that the Odyssey was the most flexible because you do have the ability to take out the 2nd row if you need to, you can have a 2nd row 2-seat bench if you want, and you can add the 8th person option too. So if you look at which minivan has the most options overall, I'd have to say the Odyssey, but again, each person has to see which option means more than the other.
To repeat the commonly found phrase...To each, his own.
Any help would be appreciated.
- Mike in Chicago
For 2006 Toyota restyled the Sienna and added a few features, like the aux input.
Granted, I really didn't use Edmunds TMV on my last purchase...
I would go ahead and get the InfoPak two weeks before you go to the dealership. Then I would check Edmunds TMV prices again about 24 hours before negotiating.
In my case it was a great decision. I got a great minivan for a great price and then also got it for zero financing.
Mediocre is in the eye of the beholder. No, I don't have a five speed transmission,( it's only four) but I can't feel it shift anyway so I really could care less.
The Honda is less than a sec. faster in the quarter mile, but I don't race my van anyway so a sec. or two is no big deal to me. I usually have a light foot to save fuel anyway
The Honda stops four feet shorter than mine at 60mph. Again, not that much difference.
Honda is rated at 12/28 in mpg, mine is rated at 11/26.
Am I willing to pay about $7,000 more for a Honda for the little bit of difference in performance? I don't think so.
I have had my DGC going on 14 months now. It's only had oil changes and tire rotations. Not one small problem to take it to the dealer for. Was I a sucker? I think not. Not only did I get a great, dependable van for $7,000 less, I would imagine over five years with Zero interest, I will save another couple of thousand in interest charges.
Plus I have a very family friendly van with seats that fold into the floor and storage bins that can hold gobs of stuff, all stuck neatly out of sight so the van never looks messed up.
Now that might matter to a person like the small difference in performance between the two, doesn't bother me. Especially if your only hauling people, don't mind a messy van, or if your second vehicle is a pickup. But if you have kids or have to occasionally carry bigger things in your van, it can make a big difference.
My daughter is due to have a baby next month. We bought her a chest and baby bed which easily fit into our minivan stowing the seats, saving us a $35.00 delivery charge. Got a diaper bag, ball gloves, tennis rackets, tools, battery cables, flashlight? They will all stow in the storage bins in front of the middle seats, all out of sight. Need a sheet of plywood, haul your motorcycle to the shop? They will fit in this van and you don't have to take out the seats.
Yes, there are suckers born every day. But everyone is not born a sucker. They can believe it's worth paying $7,000-$8,000 more for a small difference in performance. And they can believe that their Japanese minivan will never break down and it's worth paying all that extra money to get one. Thank goodness I'm not sucker enough to believe that. I'll invest that extra money and still have a great, dependable, family friendly minivan, that I plan on keeping for 6-7 years.
Sucker always born? I don't think so.
I think the Honda Ody is an excellent van, I can't and won't put it down. It's just that to me, it was way to expensive over the Dodge and didn't have the fold flat seats or deep wells that the Dodge had, that I know I would really use.
I have also had a number of Chrysler products down through the years. I had some problems with some of the ones I bought earlier in the 60s,70s and 80s. Nothing major, but annoying. But the last three before this minivan, Our 1989 New Yorker, 1993 Eagle Vision, 2001 Dodge Dakota,CC. were all trouble free except the last two years of the Eagle.(Air compressor & Engine mounts) But it gave us good service for 11 years. Even the power windows and door locks still worked after that long. So I have to believe that American cars are not anywhere near as bad anymore as people like to make them out to be and can be a great value to the buyer. I see that most are not rated that far behind some Japanese models and some are even rated ahead. On a whole, American cars are now rated better than European cars. So I think America has come a long way. It's mostly the reputation they need to get rid of now. And there are some great values for the dollar if one keeps an open mind.
re your comment about saving 7-8k by choosing a dgc, i think that the savings depends more on what model level you are comparing... we first looked at a dgc sxt to replace our 96 gc and were disappointed by the new model's cheaper interior "feel" and less comfortable middle seats, price was only 22.7 after a 4k rebate...next we checked the odyssey lx which is the base version.. it had more features that we wanted, was of higher overall quality and ended up costing only 24k, only 1.3k more that an sxt...
I'll also admit the middle seats, while they are comfortable, are not as comfortable as the Honda's. But I also don't sit in those seats. No one that has sat back there has ever complained of them being uncomfortable. But even if the Honda gave me the same price as my SXT, I would have still bought the Dodge, because of the deep wells and the fold away seats.
I use my van, much more than hauling people. I had a pickup before and had nowhere to put stuff I always carry with me, especially out here in Arizona where it can get up to 120 and a gas station can be 50 miles away from each other. I always carry battery cables, blanket, tape, tools,flash light, can of fix a flat and etc. Also water if I go out of town. The Dodge lets me store all that in just one of those deep wells, out of sight.
I also do a lot of my own work around the house and I'm always buying stuff at Home Depot. Those fold in the floor seats work perfect for me. So much so, they are the reason I got rid of my truck. They also come in handy like last week when we bought our daughter that baby bed and chest. We saved $35.00 delivery fee by being able to take it ourselves. When my brother and I remodled our sister's bathroom, sis also saved over $70.00 by me being able to carry it all in my van.
The Honda is beautiful and dependable. But it's not the van I would want for the stuff I use my van for. It's a great people hauler. Mine is that also. Not as nice inside, but it is more family and work friendly than the Honda and thousands of dollars less.
I have said many times, if your using your van to just haul people, you can't do better than buying a Honda. But if your carrying a lot of stuff, got kids or babies that require you to carry a bunch of stuff, the Dodge fits the bill better than any van on the market. You can put all kinds of toys, diaper bags, sport equipment in those bins and your van will never look messy. You can stow just one middle seat and put in a wagon, set up stroller, 25 gallon air compressor, or what have you. It truly is a work and family friendly van. So it all depends on what one uses their van for and how much money you want to spend.
i agree with you in that the flexibility of the gc can't be beat and it probably is the best compromise for various jobs...re the power hatch and sliding doors, i am of the old school belief, "kiss", (keep it simple stupid) ...to me all those power sliders and hatches are just another potential mechanical problem and expense down the road...our biggest problem with the 96 gc was with the "bells and whistles" options like the overhead computer/display, infinity factory speakers and radio, etc. overall though we were pretty satisfied with it over the years...
Just read in the problems forums for all minivans for an accurate measure of reliability. What are the current owners of current minivans reporting?
I don't believe the brand new Civic offers it? Wonder why, if it's essential, especially when you consider Civic to be more entry level with less experienced drivers?
Seriously, there are very good choices containing all the requisite safety features that one need not compromise. If you cannot afford Honda or Toyota all you need do is look at the new 2006 Kia Sedona or the soon to be on sale Hyundai Entourage. I know Hyundai has a higher collective quality level than DCX and I think Kia is getting there as well.
Minivans are primarily movers of young families (although the demographic is shifting toward Baby Boomers ((me))so why wouldn't you want every available safety feature? Honda makes safety standard. Heck, if you order RES on a DCX mini you have to forego the curtain bags. Want to bet ESC and head curtain bags are standard on the next generation DCX minis?