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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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Comments

  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    2006 Odyssey = 0

    2003 Silhouette = 0

    1997 Windstar = 0

    1994 Grand Caravan = 1

    1990 Trans Sport = 1

    1987 Nissan Van = 0

    1983 Vanagon = 0

    Twice in 23 years screams for stow and go.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    about 380 in a year and a half. :sick:

    Or, 3 times.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    I don't think that VSC is worthless, but when it comes into play it almost always is correcting driver error. Most situations are avoidable by just acknowledging what you should be doing to avoid loss of control (speed, buffer zone, road & weather conditions). Of course there are situations that are out of your control, but those are in the minority
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    I bought my 2004 T&C Platinum right as the Sto N Go were 1st hitting the lots. I got such a great deal ($9K off sticker)I passed on the much lower discount Sto N Go. While I haven't had to do a single thing except change oil & rotate tires in 23K miles in 2 years, I do regret not getting Sto N Go, especially since I can get a new 06 with that and a few more featues than I have for about $1K LESS than what I paid.

    I've removed the 2nd row seats about 10-15 times in 2 years, usually to haul stuff
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    "To me (and I repeat, to me) the 2nd row seats in the Ody felt nicer (more comfortable) than those in the DCX."

    Does that matter when you have 2-3 kids, like you said earlier? Carseats & boosters don't notice seat comfort...
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    I have removed one or both 2nd row seats in my 2002 T&C 5 or 6 times in 18 months. They are VERY easily removed and replaced as are either 50/50 split fold and tumble 3rd row seats. ;)
  • no2dogno2dog Member Posts: 1
    I am hearing about bad lights on some minivans, I am going to buy one and need good lights at night. Help.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    df
  • kfdmedkfdmed Member Posts: 130
    And the decapitation comment was in poor taste and not even funny. The only people who say they would never stow the 2nd row are ODY owners. In less than a year I have stowed both rows close to dozen times.
  • kfdmedkfdmed Member Posts: 130
    That people use vans for things other than people hauling. Do you take your kids everywhere? I have stowed both rows 5 times for just furniture hauling in the last six months. Saves me the delivery fee.
  • kfdmedkfdmed Member Posts: 130
    So 12 times a year I anticipate stowing the 2nd row.
  • garandmangarandman Member Posts: 524
    We have a 99 Caravan (not Grand - short wheelbase) with buckets. We leave one out most of the time. We put it back in or take the other out about once a month. We have three kids and with one out it's easy to load kids in and out.

    We also have an 05 Nissan Quest used for work and family. The middle row folds down almost flat with the push of a latch. The seats are folded and unfolded regularly.

    Neither of our vans have split 3rd rows, nor do we miss this particular "feature"
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Almost all new minivans have excellent headlights. Don't buy a pre-2001 DC minivan if you need bright headlights. :blush:
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Personally, I'd rather have the option of sliding the 2nd row seats together to make a bench, then the stow-n-go. If I need more space, I'll always know in advance & I just can take the seats out. But to me, the ability to slide the two 2nd row seats together outweighs the stow-n-go capability. But to each his own.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    there are varying degrees of how often we fold away our second rows.

    Stow N Go owners (and other DCX van owners apparently) seem to take out their second row seats more often than other minivan owners.

    How about this survey question:
    How many times have you wished your van had a second row bench seat instead of bucket seats? And if your van allowed you to slide the second row bucket seats together, would you?

    My answer: About 0 times but occasionally I do like sliding together the second row buckets just to change things up a little :)
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    I thought it brilliant and inspirational.

    Honda Odyssey owners have a very sophisticated sense of humor.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    I like the 2nd row bench for easier access to the 3rd row on at least one side...just climb right in.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "Do you take your kids everywhere?"

    I don't; but my wife does. When we are going somewhere without the kids, we take my Celica.

    "I have stowed both rows 5 times for just furniture hauling in the last six months. Saves me the delivery fee."

    My folks live less than a mile away and have a truck. And two trailors. So no, we've had no need to use the van for hauling. Which is why I've said that FOR ME, sto'n'go wouldn't be useful. Which is also why I've said that we've never had any need WHATSOEVER to remove either one or both 2nd row seats.

    You've saved the delivery fee on furniture delivery 5 times in 6 months? How much furniture are you buying anyway? (BTW - if desired, we COULD haul furniture in the Ody by simply removing the 2nd row seats. It's really NOT all that difficult to do; we can't just go buy a bedroom suite on a whim. Bummer.)
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "To me (and I repeat, to me) the 2nd row seats in the Ody felt nicer (more comfortable) than those in the DCX."

    "Does that matter when you have 2-3 kids, like you said earlier? Carseats & boosters don't notice seat comfort..."

    Since:

    1) we tend to keep our vehicles for a minium of 8 years, and...

    2) our kids will be out of their booster seats in 1-1/2 to 2 years....

    Yes. Seat comfort without carseats/boosters DID matter when we were shopping. Are you acknowledging that the 2nd row seat comfort in the DCX is less than that of the Ody?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Almost all new minivans have excellent headlights. Don't buy a pre-2001 DC minivan if you need bright headlights.

    All mid 90s to about 2001 Dodge/Chryslers had very poor headlights. Thats what happens when you go for style over function. It won't happen with the Germans involved.
  • kfdmedkfdmed Member Posts: 130
    Got to keep them separated ... my 4 year old an 2 year old. Putting them close together back there is asking for trouble.
  • kfdmedkfdmed Member Posts: 130
    Doesn't make sense ... the stow area is closed at all times except to stow or unstow the seats and you dont do that while driving.
  • kfdmedkfdmed Member Posts: 130
    Bought a bed and headboard for my two year old at different times so that was two trips. Sold a desk at a garage sale and delivered for the guy who bought it. Delivered a dining room table and chairs for my sister. Bought TV and entertainment center for kids playroom. All these trips required the 2nd row to be stowed. I dont like to borrow vehicles if I dont have to.
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    Since:

    1) we tend to keep our vehicles for a minium of 8 years, and...

    2) our kids will be out of their booster seats in 1-1/2 to 2 years....

    Yes. Seat comfort without carseats/boosters DID matter when we were shopping. Are you acknowledging that the 2nd row seat comfort in the DCX is less than that of the Ody?"

    I don't know if they are or not, since I don't sit there and don't have sto N Go. I have heard that you sacrifice some comfort w/ Sto N Go. Which I personally think is moot for most minivan buyers because it only matters if you are sitting ADULTS there regularly. And the whole seat comfort thing doesn't mean much to me. I don't think I've ever been bothered by a seat. Maybe the legroom, but the design of the seat, nah...
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Let me start by saying that I'm not a current minivan owner. I have a Ford Freestyle with a 2nd row, 3 person bench. My wife sits in the 2nd row next to our infant (with the front passenger seat folded flat), that's why we like a 2nd row bench. Later on after our next baby we may get a minivan, but I'd still like the 2nd row bench option, like in the Odyssey.

    I think that the Odyssey has the best seating arrangement, because you can keep the 2nd row seats apart if you want, or together as a bench. But if my wife & infant sit in the second row, we can put the other kids in the 3rd row and they'll have easy access to the 3rd row if we have the 2nd row 2-seat bench. With the 2nd row separate chairs, the kids would have to go across and then in-between. Not a big deal, but easier just to shoot right into the 3rd row.

    And for the rare circumstances that I need to carry 8 passengers (maybe a few times each year when we have guests), the Odyssey's extra middle 2nd row seat would be useful. The Sienna has a 2nd row 3-person bench option, but I wouldn't want that all the time if I was using the 3rd row all of the time. Not too convenient.

    For me, the stowNgo option wouldn't be worth it. Again, the reality is when I do need to haul large items, it's not a surprise. I'm not just in a store and POOF, decide to buy something too big to fit without removing the 2nd row. But I would miss the 2nd row flexibility if I did have stowNgo. Maybe when it comes out with the unstowed slideing option with a 3 seat 2nd row option, then I'll take it.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "Again, the reality is when I do need to haul large items, it's not a surprise. I'm not just in a store and POOF, decide to buy something too big to fit without removing the 2nd row."

    YES! Exactly. kfdmed seems to think the only way to store seats in order to use the cargo capacity of a van is to flip them into the floor.

    Is sto'n'go the EASIEST way to store the 2nd row? Sure. But all the main contenders have the capacity of remove the 2nd row for cargo hauling.

    I suppose prospective owners simply need to honestly assess the anticipated frequency of 2nd row seat removal and balance that against possible seat comfort issues and loss of seating flexibility (2nd row bench with wide access aisle to 3rd row).
  • kfdmedkfdmed Member Posts: 130
    of the need to stow/remove the 2nd row. I seem to have the need to do this more than anyone. Yes, I could do the same with a different minivan, it just wouldn't be as easy.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Agree on that...if every week I was taking out the 2nd row seats for hauling, (and the 2nd row seating arrangement of the GC was good enough), then I'd go with the stowNgo.

    But again, on a broad perspective, I'd still say that the Odyssey was the most flexible because you do have the ability to take out the 2nd row if you need to, you can have a 2nd row 2-seat bench if you want, and you can add the 8th person option too. So if you look at which minivan has the most options overall, I'd have to say the Odyssey, but again, each person has to see which option means more than the other.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    In our five years of having the Odyssey, we often shifted the seats around. Having the middle row seperate was great and made "captains chairs", which was more comfortable for four people. When we had 5-7 people, we made the seats into a bench, which made 3rd row access much easier. We never had to remove the seats, or had a need to. Where we buy furniture, delivery is free for purchases over $800, so we never had to utilize it. If we had the need to, though, we would have known in advance, and just popped the seats out.

    To repeat the commonly found phrase...To each, his own.
  • chgomikechgomike Member Posts: 2
    Today I test drove a 2006 Sienna, as well as an Odyssey and a Grand Caravan. I'm wondering if the 2005 Sienna came with an auxilliary input on the stereo as the 2006 does. The dealer, per usual, had very little information. I'm always surprised by how little car salesmen often know about the products they represent.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    - Mike in Chicago
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I remember reading on a different Sienna forum (not Edmunds) that the auxillary input was an addition to 2006 models.

    For 2006 Toyota restyled the Sienna and added a few features, like the aux input.
  • bcubed2355bcubed2355 Member Posts: 1
    I plan on buying a 2006 Toyota Seinna within the next month. when is the best time to order the info pak. Now, the day before / the day / the week before I go to the dealer. Plus how long is the information in the info pak good for
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I've never used the InfoPak before, so I can't really give an opinion, but when using Edmunds TMV, I typically get the numbers the week or two before I begin test driving to get a feel for where the prices are and then right before I start dealing with the staff at the dealership I check the prices again.

    Granted, I really didn't use Edmunds TMV on my last purchase...

    I would go ahead and get the InfoPak two weeks before you go to the dealership. Then I would check Edmunds TMV prices again about 24 hours before negotiating.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    "If some people don't mind driving a mediocre minivan in exchange for a far lower price, it might not be a bad decision. Everyone of us is born a sucker

    In my case it was a great decision. I got a great minivan for a great price and then also got it for zero financing.

    Mediocre is in the eye of the beholder. No, I don't have a five speed transmission,( it's only four) but I can't feel it shift anyway so I really could care less.

    The Honda is less than a sec. faster in the quarter mile, but I don't race my van anyway so a sec. or two is no big deal to me. I usually have a light foot to save fuel anyway

    The Honda stops four feet shorter than mine at 60mph. Again, not that much difference.

    Honda is rated at 12/28 in mpg, mine is rated at 11/26.

    Am I willing to pay about $7,000 more for a Honda for the little bit of difference in performance? I don't think so.

    I have had my DGC going on 14 months now. It's only had oil changes and tire rotations. Not one small problem to take it to the dealer for. Was I a sucker? I think not. Not only did I get a great, dependable van for $7,000 less, I would imagine over five years with Zero interest, I will save another couple of thousand in interest charges.

    Plus I have a very family friendly van with seats that fold into the floor and storage bins that can hold gobs of stuff, all stuck neatly out of sight so the van never looks messed up.

    Now that might matter to a person like the small difference in performance between the two, doesn't bother me. Especially if your only hauling people, don't mind a messy van, or if your second vehicle is a pickup. But if you have kids or have to occasionally carry bigger things in your van, it can make a big difference.

    My daughter is due to have a baby next month. We bought her a chest and baby bed which easily fit into our minivan stowing the seats, saving us a $35.00 delivery charge. Got a diaper bag, ball gloves, tennis rackets, tools, battery cables, flashlight? They will all stow in the storage bins in front of the middle seats, all out of sight. Need a sheet of plywood, haul your motorcycle to the shop? They will fit in this van and you don't have to take out the seats.

    Yes, there are suckers born every day. But everyone is not born a sucker. They can believe it's worth paying $7,000-$8,000 more for a small difference in performance. And they can believe that their Japanese minivan will never break down and it's worth paying all that extra money to get one. Thank goodness I'm not sucker enough to believe that. I'll invest that extra money and still have a great, dependable, family friendly minivan, that I plan on keeping for 6-7 years.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Let me add. I bought an iWay 350C GPS unit for my van. It's not nearly as big as the one in the Honda, but it has all the streets, highways, waterways and trails built into the unit, along with five million points of interest and a 1,000 address book, with two built in rechargable batteries and a cigarette lighter adapter. It also has voice directions, plays MP3 music, and shows family pictures for only $349.00. Not the two thousand plus dollars the Honda GPS costs. I can upgrade the maps free on the Internet and use the GPS in the wife's Civic if we want to. Or mount it on a bike, motorcycle, or boat.

    Sucker always born? I don't think so.
  • k203206k203206 Member Posts: 20
    You make great points and I am happy for you on your decision. On the other hand, I have owned (3) Honda products. A 1996 Accord and Odyssey and a 1999 CRV. All (3) vehicles never gave me any problems. The (10) year old Odyssey with 135K miles does not have (1) rattle (It’s incredible). The Accord will have 190K miles with no problems or rattles. The CRV has a problem, it has a rattle in the dome light and only rattles during the summer, it has 114K miles. If everything was built like Hondas (appliances, electronics, plumbing etc..) life would be less stressful. My point, Honda cars are more expensive than domestics, but they EARNED the right to price the vehicles that way. If their current products are anything close to the ones they made 10 years ago, I wouldn’t hesitate to spend the money on such a good product even if it may be a couple thousand $'s more than the competition. Check out consumer reports and other product review magazines, they are always on thier "recommended" lists.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I know what you mean about Honda dependability. They do make very good vehicles, no denying that. That is one of the reasons we bought our 2004 Civic. Plus the price for the Civic was only about $1,300.00 more than the Ford Focus we were thinking about buying, when we were ready to get rid of our 1993 Eagle Vision. Plus the wife liked the dash lights on the Civic better. But if the price had been around $3-4,000.00 more, we would have a Focus in the driveway now. The Focus really is a fun car to drive.

    I think the Honda Ody is an excellent van, I can't and won't put it down. It's just that to me, it was way to expensive over the Dodge and didn't have the fold flat seats or deep wells that the Dodge had, that I know I would really use.

    I have also had a number of Chrysler products down through the years. I had some problems with some of the ones I bought earlier in the 60s,70s and 80s. Nothing major, but annoying. But the last three before this minivan, Our 1989 New Yorker, 1993 Eagle Vision, 2001 Dodge Dakota,CC. were all trouble free except the last two years of the Eagle.(Air compressor & Engine mounts) But it gave us good service for 11 years. Even the power windows and door locks still worked after that long. So I have to believe that American cars are not anywhere near as bad anymore as people like to make them out to be and can be a great value to the buyer. I see that most are not rated that far behind some Japanese models and some are even rated ahead. On a whole, American cars are now rated better than European cars. So I think America has come a long way. It's mostly the reputation they need to get rid of now. And there are some great values for the dollar if one keeps an open mind.
  • petras2petras2 Member Posts: 104
    hi
    re your comment about saving 7-8k by choosing a dgc, i think that the savings depends more on what model level you are comparing... we first looked at a dgc sxt to replace our 96 gc and were disappointed by the new model's cheaper interior "feel" and less comfortable middle seats, price was only 22.7 after a 4k rebate...next we checked the odyssey lx which is the base version.. it had more features that we wanted, was of higher overall quality and ended up costing only 24k, only 1.3k more that an sxt...
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    petras2, I don't think anyone would argue that the Honda is nicer looking inside than the Dodge G.C. They're not even close. I have the SXT and paid a little over $23,000 for it. To get a Honda with close to the same stuff on it, would have cost over $30,000. I have power everything on the SXT. If I remember right, Honda doesn't even offer the power rear hatch on their cheaper models even if you were willing to pay extra for it. I don't remember them having the overhead computer, better radio and speakers, or adjustable peddles on the cheaper models either.

    I'll also admit the middle seats, while they are comfortable, are not as comfortable as the Honda's. But I also don't sit in those seats. No one that has sat back there has ever complained of them being uncomfortable. But even if the Honda gave me the same price as my SXT, I would have still bought the Dodge, because of the deep wells and the fold away seats.

    I use my van, much more than hauling people. I had a pickup before and had nowhere to put stuff I always carry with me, especially out here in Arizona where it can get up to 120 and a gas station can be 50 miles away from each other. I always carry battery cables, blanket, tape, tools,flash light, can of fix a flat and etc. Also water if I go out of town. The Dodge lets me store all that in just one of those deep wells, out of sight.

    I also do a lot of my own work around the house and I'm always buying stuff at Home Depot. Those fold in the floor seats work perfect for me. So much so, they are the reason I got rid of my truck. They also come in handy like last week when we bought our daughter that baby bed and chest. We saved $35.00 delivery fee by being able to take it ourselves. When my brother and I remodled our sister's bathroom, sis also saved over $70.00 by me being able to carry it all in my van.

    The Honda is beautiful and dependable. But it's not the van I would want for the stuff I use my van for. It's a great people hauler. Mine is that also. Not as nice inside, but it is more family and work friendly than the Honda and thousands of dollars less.

    I have said many times, if your using your van to just haul people, you can't do better than buying a Honda. But if your carrying a lot of stuff, got kids or babies that require you to carry a bunch of stuff, the Dodge fits the bill better than any van on the market. You can put all kinds of toys, diaper bags, sport equipment in those bins and your van will never look messy. You can stow just one middle seat and put in a wagon, set up stroller, 25 gallon air compressor, or what have you. It truly is a work and family friendly van. So it all depends on what one uses their van for and how much money you want to spend.
  • petras2petras2 Member Posts: 104
    marine2
    i agree with you in that the flexibility of the gc can't be beat and it probably is the best compromise for various jobs...re the power hatch and sliding doors, i am of the old school belief, "kiss", (keep it simple stupid) ...to me all those power sliders and hatches are just another potential mechanical problem and expense down the road...our biggest problem with the 96 gc was with the "bells and whistles" options like the overhead computer/display, infinity factory speakers and radio, etc. overall though we were pretty satisfied with it over the years...
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    I have read all the excellent, thoughtful posts concerning the versatility of DCX van seating. Several of you boasted about the many thousands of dollars you saved by buying a DCX product when compared to a Honda Odyssey. The one thing not mentioned was safety. Is it more important to carry your Home Depot 2 x 4s than to protect your passengers? I bought an Odyssey because it offered the most standard safety features such as electronic stability control, head curtain airbags, electronic brake assist, etc. It is a matter of priority and placing the value of folding seats VS life changing, debilitating injuries or death of a loved one.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Honda cars had outstanding reliability when they were simple with very few comfort features. Once Honda added power sliding doors, started building a heavier minivan, etc. the Odyssey did NOT live up to the reliability expectation that Honda sedans had earned.
    Just read in the problems forums for all minivans for an accurate measure of reliability. What are the current owners of current minivans reporting? :blush:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I know what you mean...All of our friends always wanted to take OUR van when we went somewhere because it was much nicer than their Windstar, Town and Country, and Tahoe. It became quite a burden having a car we and our friends loved so much. Unfortunately for us, our Odyssey never spent an hour being repaired, so when the Heatons' (friends of ours) Chrysler was getting a transmission put in, we HAD to take our much loved Odyssey again. Sheesh, what a burden.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    Are you implying that those of us who look for value in our van don't care for the safety of our family as much as a Honda buyer does? Using your logic, unless a person loads up on every existing safety option, he doesn't care enough about safety. Not trying to pick a fight, just have some issues with your reasoning.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Why stop at an Ody then if Safety is your major concern? One should just go and buy a Volvo wagon or XC90? Weren't there issues with doors opening during crash testing of some Ody? Ody doesn't offer knee airbags to prevent passengers from planing under the IP in a crash? Stability Control is nice but not having it doesn't make another vehicle a deathtrap and it's owner heartless.

    I don't believe the brand new Civic offers it? Wonder why, if it's essential, especially when you consider Civic to be more entry level with less experienced drivers?
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    First, I would never pick a fight with an Aggie. Gig 'Em!

    Seriously, there are very good choices containing all the requisite safety features that one need not compromise. If you cannot afford Honda or Toyota all you need do is look at the new 2006 Kia Sedona or the soon to be on sale Hyundai Entourage. I know Hyundai has a higher collective quality level than DCX and I think Kia is getting there as well.

    Minivans are primarily movers of young families (although the demographic is shifting toward Baby Boomers ((me))so why wouldn't you want every available safety feature? Honda makes safety standard. Heck, if you order RES on a DCX mini you have to forego the curtain bags. Want to bet ESC and head curtain bags are standard on the next generation DCX minis?
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    The door issue was addressed and corrected by Honda.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    And the statement is no more absurd than to say the Hyundai has a higher level than DCX. :sick:
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    Read JD Power owner satisfaction. Look at the other auto publications. The numbers do not lie.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    Gig'Em indeed! Too many factors go into the decision, for those of us with limited earning abilities anyway. Safety is a huge one. I too was not pleased with the safety options offered on the domestics, which is why we purchased a Quest with a standard curtain, traction control etc. But I wouldn't completely dismiss them based on this factor alone.
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