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I did a KBB.com search for a Private Party sale of a used 2001 Tahoe LS 2WD with popular options that include 3rd row seat, PW, PDL, Cr.Ctrl., etc..and 50,000 miles, in "Good" condition. It is estimated at $14,890, and will have a bench that seats three in the second row. You can likely find a better deal than this (newer for the money perhaps) since the recent gas crisis put many SUVs on sale in the marketplace.
Good luck!
I can't think of anything else except maybe an 8 passenger Chevy Venture, but the IIHS has crash test scores pegged at POOR for the Venture.
Kia Sedona
However, for many of us, the minivan must have the DaimlerChrysler, Honda, Mazda, or Toyota logo prominently displayed. (Listed alphabetically).
Remember 40 years ago when the Japanese were known for producing trinkets and junk??? The Koreans are learning fast!! Funny how Kia can now produce a low cost, competitive car here in US while Ford is building Fusions in Mexico?????
My Venture has two in the middle row. I use one for my three year old and eventually will use the other for my 15 month old. I really love them and with four kids (going on ten years of moving car seats around) I highly recommend them!
I bought my 2001 Venture used for 8800. However, I am currently experiencing many of the same mechanical problems discussed in these forums.
I believe the Dodge Caravan also has this seating option.
Almost always as a driver error correction. If you don't make the error, it doesn't come on. It's a safety net, but many of the times it would be needed can be avoided in thr first place
I'm sitting at my desk laughing, mon! :P
Yes. You are 100% correct.
But so is ABS.
So is virtually every other safety device/advance over the last 50 years (although, to be fair, most of these 'safety nets' are for protection from 'the other guy'). Hey, if nobody made any errors we wouldn't need seat belts, padded dashes, airbags, safety glass, etc. etc. etc.
Now, if we would just all drive error free.....
But so is ABS.
So is virtually every other safety device/advance over the last 50 years (although, to be fair, most of these 'safety nets' are for protection from 'the other guy'). Hey, if nobody made any errors we wouldn't need seat belts, padded dashes, airbags, safety glass, etc. etc. etc.
Now, if we would just all drive error free..... "
I think ESC is a little different - at least the way it's marketed. A lot of it is showing how it works great in the snow and rain. If you drive according to the conditions, you don't need it. It will help in an emergency maneuver if you have to swerve out of the way of something, but the weather stuff is all avoidable
Yep.
How is that any different from ABS?
I'm interpreting that what you are saying is "hey, be a better driver and you don't need ESC".
True. And if we were ALL better drivers we wouldn't need yada yada etc. Is ESC a safety net? Yep. Are the situations which incite skids avoidable? Absolutely.
Of course, the vast majority of all accidents are avoidable to some extent if we were ALL just better drivers. But I'd still like to have my seat belts, airbags, padded dash, door beams, etc. etc. etc.
IMO, the ABS controlled by the car's computer works better than pumping the brakes. It much easier to jam on the brakes and worry about steering than having to pump the brakes while steering. This is more about physical abilities than a correction the car makes after the fact. IMO, of course
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109225#4
The stability control systems can detect impending skids MUCH MUCH earlier than normal drivers. By the time most drivers detect a skid, they're not far away from being out of control. Often times, drivers tend to overcorrect for skids sending the vehicle oscillating back and forth. With stability control systems, the driver frequently doesn't even know that the system even kicked in until they see a light on the dash.
I know I've posted this numerous times before, but it speaks volumes about the capabilities and importance of ESC systems:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=9036
Additional info as it looks like the NHTSA is close to making ESC a requirement for all vehicles (and the rationale):
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=30&article_id=10623
The stability control systems can detect impending skids MUCH MUCH earlier than normal drivers. By the time most drivers detect a skid, they're not far away from being out of control. Often times, drivers tend to overcorrect for skids sending the vehicle oscillating back and forth. With stability control systems, the driver frequently doesn't even know that the system even kicked in until they see a light on the dash. "
I think that most skid situations are caused by drivers going to fast for the conditions, or moving too suddenly.
By driving correctly, according to weather, road conditions, trffic, etc., you will need to use the ESC much less than ABS.
I'm NOT saying that it isn't worth it or that I wouldn't get it if available. I probably would - just in case. What I am saying is that I KNOW I can avoid it's use most of the time by the way I drive. I had a Saab that had every safety feature you could get and the ESC light came on maybe twice in the 2 1/2 years that I had it.
They had horrible first year problems but they are getting better. I wouldn't be looking for a few years, so this is assuming that they continue to approve...
I wonder what would have happened without it. It's that "one time" that could make all the difference.
There are so many instances where you may use it even if you're a safe driver. We have a sharp kiss-your-butt turn on the way to town and a Navigator driving moron was coming around too fast on my side of the road awhile back. I had to leave the road to miss him. I'm not sure if VSC kicked in or not since I was paying attention to get around the turn with two wheels in the cinders. If that happened to someone else they may have jerked hard back onto the road and VSC would certainly make an even bigger difference as to whether you make it back on the road or not. I wouldn't let my wife drive a vehicle without it, at least now that it's available and I know how well it works.
I spent many years behind the wheel of race cars so I'm quite confident in my driving, but I have no problem letting a system like this intervene when I KNOW there's no way I can do what the system does in a split-second. And there's no way you can say you'll never need this system just because you're driver of the year. Stuff happens, even to the guys that know what they're doing.
In my case, nothing
This is really silly but that's Detroit for ya!! Some bonehead thinks this will help sales maybe??? Who knows!
My parents are both mainframe computer programmers at a MAJOR life insurance company, but neither of them bought policies through their company.
Prime parking is a REWARD for supporting your employer.
The Ford Motor Company has a very wide selection of vehicles in all categories. I may not like the Windstar/Freestar/Freestyle as well as a GC, T&C, Sienna, or Ody...but if Ford paid my wages and benefits, it does not seem unreasonable for me to buy a Ford.
IF a person does not believe in the company product, the person should find another employer (within reason...depending on the length of employement and other factors).
I know a Hilo driver at one of the Ford plants.....it's his sole job - moving crap around. It usually takes a few hours in the morning then he sits all day watching TV in break room, cards or reading paper. In the summer he'll skip out at lunch to go boating.....no one cares.
It's a free market "adjustment" for these guys! People in other countries are eager to work for less and do a better job (Hell, even people in this country!)
Ohhh and don't get me started on what it cost to put on a show at the COBO center here in Detroit, where there are very specific jobs for Union members and no one dare does anything else. For example one member handles lighting issues for displays, one carpet, one garbage, one phone etc....
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Toyota and Honda management pay in relation to worker pay is MUCH smaller than Ford, GM, and DC. It is remarkable that DaimlerChrysler can produce the GC and T&C of equal value to the Sienna and Odyssey when DC management and union workers are paid so much more than their counterparts at Toyota and Honda.
Sad thing is, Federal employees don't produce anything, and they're unionizing to keep their jobs!!
Back to buying minivans.......................
http://www.marine1.zoomshare.com/album/minivan/images/f18f83bd36cdf303c22ab68724- 6252d3_11404032510/image.jpg
http://www.marine1.zoomshare.com/album/minivan/images/3c38fb2705868db01d3853fb53- af25d9_11404033020/image.jpg
I prefer the 3rd row seat folding mechanism of the Sienna and Odyssey to the GC mainly because the seat bottom of the GC has a much greater slope to it. The GC 3rd row seats fold just as easily up or down as the Sienna or Odyssey. I also prefer the 60% portion of the 3rd row being on the driver's side in the GC and Sienna to the Ody having the 40 % on the driver's side.
It's not as nice inside, but it sure looks nice outside.
http://www.marine1.zoomshare.com/album/minivan/images/89e3b00d183e0844b5c218d15b- bfbcd9_11404009020/image.jpg
http://www.marine1.zoomshare.com/album/minivan/images/3f77ec23d7c4ca8a854e0cf9b0- 12db13_11404001840/image.jpg
I noticed that you keep your cast wheels washed so they do not corrode. Since DC disc brake pads are terrible for causing ugly corrosion, the cast wheels or wheel covers must be kept clean.
I think the Sienna exterior styling is one of the least attractive but we see mostly the interior which we feel is the most attractive.
I could have been just as happy with either a 2006 GC SXT or a 2006 Ody EX (cloth) as I am with our 2006 Sienna LE 7 passenger.
Thanks for your opinion of beauty. Others will argue their van is the nicest looking. Isn't beauty in the eye of the beholder?
Unless DC's brake pad formulation changed over the years, or you got some different aftermarket pads, brake dust is not an issue with DC minivans.
If only I could have gotten folding second row seats like those in the DC or Nissan vans with an 8th seat option it would have been the ideal kid hauler for us.