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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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Comments

  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    It can be unlocked from inside the Odyssey. You will see a small square cut out that you can pop open with your key and then pull the lever to open the liftgate, it is located at the base of the liftgate right in the center. The Odyssey only has one key hole and that is in the driver's door.

    You mean you have to bend over the third row seats to unlock the hatch? Wow, they didn't give that much thought did they?
  • jpnewtjpnewt Member Posts: 71
    Marine you and I go round and round on the issue of Caravan vs. Odyssey but I'd rather have to do that then Live or Die with a "PRETTY SAFE VAN" in the Dodge. By the way what does PRETTY SAFE mean? ;)
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Check the insurance rates on the minivans. Crash tests show only the results of a deliberate crash into a set barrier without any variables concerning other vehicles on the road, road conditions, etc.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Not hardly.

    I guess i'm not entitled to my opinion, just you huh? We do think highly of ourselves don't we? I just used the door "thunk" as an example of another stupid statement concerning an atribute one could quibble over.

    I know you read about the time in October of 2004, when I was randomly selected for an opinion poll to actually drive four minivans back to back over a six mile course of city streets, freeway and bad roads (although they are hard to find in Texas ).

    You might want to get a job at Car & Driver, Motortrends or better yet, CR!!!!! You're such an expert on Minivans. I'm thankful we have you to educate us all with your unbiased opinions and vast knowledge....from the bottom of my heart - THANK YOU!!!!
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    I have driven a 2001 Odd EX MANY more than 6 miles and it is NOT as quiet or comfortable as either the 2002 GC Sport or 2002 T&C LX. Furthermore, it is NOT as quiet as a 1999 GC SE that I also have driven more than once on a course much longer than 6 miles.
    The 2006 Odyssey did NOT perform as well in a 15 mile test drive as did the 2004 Sienna...but each performed better than my 2002 T&C LX with 3.3L.
    The Odyssey is a nice minivan that caused DC and others to add more features such as the "Magic Seat". Honda could not sell many Odyssey minivans until they made the 1999 Odyssey that copied the size and many nice features Chrysler had introduced to the minivan market over the years.
    Isn't it nice that Honda finally made a satisfactory minivan....after Chrysler controlled the market for over 20 years?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I would be the first one to admit the Honda is much nicer than the Dodge minivan inside. But I will also say the Dodge does have a high quality thunk to their doors

    I believe the Honda "thunk" depends on the model. I remember being in a friend's new Ody....LX model, and the doors sounded tinny. On this Touring I tried to look at, they sounded like my DCX exactly....nice solid thunk. Must have to do with added sound insulation and leather trim on door panels???

    I personally didn't want a high end minivan...not for my lifestyle of camping, dogs, windsurfing etc....plus, I didn't want to spend over $20k for my "beater" van as I joke with friends. One year and 10k trouble free miles later, I know I made the right choice for me.

    True both Japanese models are much nicer inside and offer some features Chrysler doesn't, but owners are paying for the extra quality and features. I wouldn't use "quality" so liberally here....not from what I see on these forums!
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Marine you and I go round and round on the issue of Caravan vs. Odyssey but I'd rather have to do that then Live or Die with a "PRETTY SAFE VAN" in the Dodge. By the way what does PRETTY SAFE mean?

    Well Jpnewt, as safe as most any minivan could be before stability control came out. Granted that helps, but remember less than two years ago, Honda didn't have it either and I bet that wouldn't have prevented you from buying a Honda van or another car, instead of buying a car that had it on it. Now that Honda has it, you think everyone should buy a Honda no matter if it meets our other needs or not. Were Honda's vehicles unsafe before 2005? Were we all buying unsafe vans? Of course not.

    Honda does not meet my needs. I bought it to haul family, grand kids and stuff I need when working around my or my sister's house, or to carry home furniture or appliance I buy to replace things that wear out. I also find my van being used to carry an electric wheel chair and electric scooter. Something I hadn't planned on when I bought my van. Things 95% of Honda owners would never carry in their minivans. Why should I buy something that doesn't meet my needs just to get a safety feature that has never been on vans before. It doesn't make my van any less safe than it, or other's ever were before.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Were Honda's vehicles unsafe before 2005? Were we all buying unsafe vans? Of course not.

    If stability control was the be all and end all of safety, why doesn't Honda offer it, even as an option, on it's new 2006 Civics?
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    "Consumer Reports stated that the frontal offset crash test was not that great on DCX. It is excellent on Odyssey and Sienna. That type of crash is real world not the frontal barrier used by NHTSA."

    Full width frontal crashes are at least as common as frontal offset crashes. Both the IIHS and NHTSA crash tests are complementary. Neither one supercedes the other- ideally you'd have a vehicle that does well in all the available tests.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    "Check the insurance rates on the minivans. Crash tests show only the results of a deliberate crash into a set barrier without any variables concerning other vehicles on the road, road conditions, etc."

    Those other variables are what make these a poor predictor of crashworthiness. Insurance rates, like death and injury statistics, have a large element of driver profile in them. That is why even corporate twins often have different rates and varying statistics, even though the vehicles are identical.

    Try this calculator for starters- plug in some of the corporate "twins" like the GM minivans and note that none of the four are the same...

    http://moneycentral.msn.com/insure/autorisk.aspx
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    The Odyssey LX may be the best deal in my opinion (in terms of safety features for the money) most people when they walk into that dealership intending to buy a "base" model end up buying an EX or an EX-L because they're attracted to the added features, gizmos, and gadgets.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    I'd be surprised if the LX was over 25% of sales. I see them around, but the majority seem to be EX/EX-Ls. Even Tourings seem to be more common around here. My last Odyssey was an LX. I'd have probably bought another one if it had the 8th seat, but the added features, gizmos and gadgets are nice, too.

    Want a real rarity? Try to find a Sienna CE with package #2 (VSC, 4-wheel discs, DRL). It isn't even available in some areas and dealers rarely order them if it is.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    As I have stated, Honda didn't meet my needs, this van does. It is the friendliest family minivan on the market. Look at these pictures and see why. The blue van is my brother's.

    http://www.carspace.com/marine2/?14@@index.html!jkdty3=1

    Click on pictures to enlarge.

    Anyone know how to rearrange them in order?
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    We decided to get not only the wheel chair, but also the scooter. As you can see, they both fit in easially with plenty of room to spare and I didn't have to take a seat out to do it. You can't beat stow and go. For an active family, it is great.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I agree. At Serra Honda (used to be Neil Bonnett Honda, where my family does business) they currently have one LX in stock, compared to 17 EX models and 5 Touring Models. Of the Odyssies I see on the road, probably 7 of 10 are EX, 2 of 10 are Touring, and 1 of 10 are LX.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Well nzchris, your still in luck with the Chrysler/Dodge minivans. You could buy a 2002-2004 van and get a good one in any of those years from Chrysler and still pay thousands less than the Honda/Toyota. Now if you were going back much farther,(like 1990 and back) I would suggest you buy a Toyota minivan, as Chrysler and Honda both had problems with their transmissions back then. Your pretty safe with any of the three in those years. Although I think Toyota had some problems with the engine slugging up, although I am not sure of the years they were doing it.

    If I'm not mistaken, weren't the first Odyssies generally the most reliable; using the gen-5 (94-97) Accord's bulletproof engine and admirably reliable transmission?

    Generally, the rougher years of Ody trannies were 1999-2001, although sporadic problems obviously exist later than that.

    I sure hope 1990 was a typo, sir. Honda didn't start making vans until 1995 (with their Accord-based Wagon-style Odyssey).
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I sure hope 1990 was a typo, sir. Honda didn't start making vans until 1995 (with their Accord-based Wagon-style Odyssey).

    It was a typo, I meant below 2000. I don't know of anyone who would want to buy one around 1990, Thanks for pointing it out.
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Member Posts: 421
    We bought a used 01 DGC EX with only 37K back in Sep. 2003 for just under $16,000. We now have over 71K miles and our van has been very reliable. No transmission, engine or electrical problems. (Well we did have a dash light that went out last year, but it cam back on and has not gone back out since). Outside of regular maintenance, oil changes and brakes, all is well and I am very pleased with our purchased. We will be replacing both rear cargo door lifters though in the near future. (They will not lift the door open using the power feature when below 50 degrees, because they are worn and weak.) Some none maintenance stuff was, both front power window motors and regulators had to be replaced right after purchase. We had some front suspension work done at around 50K. A power steering hose replaced from a recall. A gas cap I think around 45K. A battery around 55K. :shades:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    We will be replacing both rear cargo door lifters though in the near future. (They will not lift the door open using the power feature when below 50 degrees, because they are worn and weak.) Some none maintenance stuff was, both front power window motors and regulators had to be replaced right after purchase. We had some front suspension work done at around 50K. A power steering hose replaced from a recall. A gas cap I think around 45K. A battery around 55K.

    Wouldn't things like an intermittently working dash light, power windows, and power hatch be considered eletrical problems? If all were covered under basic warranty, that's different, I realize, but things like replacing the power hatch opener, window regulators and suspension work (the trouble we had with one of our 2 Chryslers was suspension) sounds like a good bit of stuff to be fixed early in vehicle life (pre-100k miles).

    The battery at 55k does seem a little premature (most batteries have a 5 year life to them, but that's admitted nit-picking on my part).
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    The rear hatch lifters are those hydraulic lifters, really has nothing to do with the electrical system. They are more like a screen door closer.

    Batteries out here in Arizona only last about 24-30 months.

    Window regulators and suspension should have lasted longer than they did though.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Oh, I misunderstood about the hydraulic struts. I know about those! Alabama is lucky with our mild winters (yet still hot summers - 95F-100F isn't uncommon for July). It's still easier on batteries than many other climates.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Oh, I misunderstood about the hydraulic struts. I know about those! Alabama is lucky with our mild winters (yet still hot summers - 95F-100F isn't uncommon for July). It's still easier on batteries than many other climates.

    Arizona get so hot, very few battery companies will warranty their battries for full replacement past 20-24 months. I think the Die Hard will still go 36 months, but most are far and in between that.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Arizona get so hot, very few battery companies will warranty their battries for full replacement past 20-24 months. I think the Die Hard will still go 36 months, but most are far and in between that.

    I gotcha.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Arizona get so hot, very few battery companies will warranty their battries for full replacement past 20-24 months. I think the Die Hard will still go 36 months, but most are far and in between that

    Would stay away from Hybrids for sure then!!!!
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Member Posts: 421
    First, let me say, we live in Chicago and our weather here varies and is very hard on any vechicle. So this does have an impact on such items as a battery and the gas lifters on the rear tail gate. I have owned 5 different cars of different makes. I have had no power anything and all power windows etc. I have had Diehard batteries and generic batteries. All have not lasted over 4 to 5 yrs. (Our weather is very hard on car batteries.)

    "Wouldn't things like an intermittently working dash light, power windows, and power hatch be considered electrical problems? If all were covered under basic warranty, that's different"

    Since the light came back on, I don't see it as being a problem, but in all honesty I wanted to mention it. As far as the power window regulator and motors, I agree that they should have lasted longer. But, they were covered under warranty and because 37K miles and 2 yrs was driven buy another owner, I knew of the possibility of a problem or two. (As far as I'm concerned, this was very minor compared to other problems that could have happened).

    "suspension work (the trouble we had with one of our 2 Chryslers was suspension) sounds like a good bit of stuff to be fixed early in vehicle life (pre-100k miles). "

    This is what we had replaced for the suspension: 1) Front link, sway bar; 2) Link-sway eliminator; 3) bushing-sway eliminator and 4) Cushion, front sway bar. Cost was $173.12 in parts. All covered by warranty. Because I'm not sure how or what type roads our van was driven on before 37K, I can't say if all these items would have lasted longer. But I do know that our roads in Chicago, are not the best with all the road salt eating at the roads, pot holes, bumpy roads from patches etc. From some of the other post I have read, having to replace front suspension components would seem to be a problem on Daimlerchrysler minivans. I hear a faint knock on the right side in front when going over bumpy roads. I have not had a chance to look into it yet, but will report back at a later time.

    With these few minor things, I still stand by my original statement by saying our van has been very reliable. I have read some of the problems that others have had on late model minivans from Daimlerchrylser, Honda and Toyota. Some have had more problems in a few years, then what we've had that were not minor. Rattling doors that couldn't be fixed, engine slug, transmission replacement (more than once), wind noise and ear buffing, power sliding doors that open by themselves, replacing run flat tires after two years, complete dash board black out, clock light gone out etc.

    Out of all the things I listed. I consider only the power window regulators and motors being the only problem. The rest, just regular wear and tear with the suspension components being questionable. Since we have a knock now when going over bumps.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    This is what we had replaced for the suspension: 1) Front link, sway bar; 2) Link-sway eliminator; 3) bushing-sway eliminator and 4) Cushion, front sway bar. Cost was $173.12 in parts. All covered by warranty. Because I'm not sure how or what type roads our van was driven on before 37K, I can't say if all these items would have lasted longer.

    I can vouch for effects of road conditions - living in the "motor city" of Detroit where an SUV should be standard in every garage due to very poor road conditions! I had to replace the front bushing on my BMW at 23k miles!!!!!

    I'll bet you any amount that the window motors are coming from China. There's been a major switch to Chinese motor manufacturers over the past 5-6 years! Their prices are great, their quality sucks, and don't believe your "imports" don't have the same motors!! My coworker worked for Johnson Electric, one of the biggest motor suppliers in the world...sure sounds American doesn't it? Totally Chinese owned!!!!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Our Chrysler suspension troubles came from a bad link and an elusive ball joint problem, I believe. But, a Sebring and a minivan are very different in the suspension department.

    The fact that all was covered under warranty (did you get an extended warranty?) is defintely a good thing for you.
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    well, how good or bad your chinese windows motors are depends on how dc wants to spec it, and of course how much dc wants to pay for it.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    well, how good or bad your chinese windows motors are depends on how dc wants to spec it, and of course how much dc wants to pay for it.

    Being directly in Automotive working with various OEM, I can say without doubt, spec and price have some part of it but quality is much more than some spec or price. For example, BMW is notorious for tough specs, high standards, and paying top dollars for components...Are they the highest quality automobile? Hardly. Whereas, Hyundai and Kia have low specs, low purchase price of components...yet their quality is improving drastically. Japanese OEM work closer with their suppliers and negotiate prices and specs that are realistic, then stick to them...not coming back 6 months later looking for 10% price cut or else!
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Member Posts: 421
    We bought the maximum care warranty to 5/07 or 75K, since the original warranty had expired from mileage. (And let me add that we would have bought and extended warranty regardless of who made the vechicle if the original warranty had expired.) :)
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    First, let me say, we live in Chicago and our weather here varies and is very hard on any vechicle. So this does have an impact on such items as a battery and the gas lifters on the rear tail gate. I have owned 5 different cars of different makes. I have had no power anything and all power windows etc. I have had Diehard batteries and generic batteries. All have not lasted over 4 to 5 yrs. (Our weather is very hard on car batteries.)


    We'd give anything if we could get any battery to last four or five years. Most will conk out a little after two and a half years. Maybe three tops, in Arizona. I have tires that will dry rot before they wear out here.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Would you give up your nice, pleasant winters without snow, white-out blizzards, salt on the roads, chuck holes, filthy vehicles from all the crap on the road in places that are less desireable to live than in Arizona? :blush:
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    Would you give up your nice, pleasant winters without snow, white-out blizzards, salt on the roads, chuck holes, filthy vehicles from all the crap on the road in places that are less desireable to live than in Arizona?"

    Exactly. I'd buy a battery every 6 months if it meant I didn't have to deal with the northeast weather.

    But my family is rooted in NJ, so I deal with it each year.

    Actually been very fortunate this year. Cold, but not much snow at all
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I've had my Odyssey since 2002 and I don't think I've ever replaced the battery. (Lived in Ohio from 2002-mid 2004, and Tennessee from mid 2004-present with the minivan)

    Is it abnormal that my battery's lasted this long? I remember my Accord's battery died after 4 years and 95,000 miles of Wisconsin and Ohio driving.
  • temp409temp409 Member Posts: 55
    We had a wreck 2 days ago and my little girl (who is 12) was hurt badly because her shoulder strap didn't catch when we hit going 35 mph on a ON ramp-we hit 2 cars that stopped right in front of us and we left black marks trying to stop 15 or 20 feet. Her lap belt held fine but her shoulder strap didn't catch at all she suffered a concussion with blood coming from her eye nose and mouth when she hit the handle on the back of the drivers seat- I have pictures of her face the next day. When we went back to see our van we checked all the seat belts front seat works perfect-me and her dad were not hurt at all- all 4 back seats if you jerk on the shoulder strap they WILL NOT CATCH. BEWARE jerk the shoulder straps and don't learn the hard way like us!
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Thanks for the advice, and I hope your little girl is doing well.

    I can't recall the make(don't think it was DCX), but one manufacturers minivan had a recall over second row seatbelts not operating properly.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    Sorry to hear that. I hope your daughter recovers quickly
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "all 4 back seats if you jerk on the shoulder strap they WILL NOT CATCH. BEWARE jerk the shoulder straps and don't learn the hard way like us!"

    First, let me offer my condolonces for your 12 year old. There is no excuse for shoulder belts failing to properly restrain her in a 35mph impact.

    However, I must point out that in many vehicles, you can't test the shoulder belts by jerking on them. There are two types of locking systems:

    Systems triggered by the CAR'S MOVEMENT (rapid vehicle deceleration).
    Systems triggered by the BELT'S MOVEMENT (jerking the belt).

    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/seatbelt3.htm

    All that being said, I have no idea which types of system is in the '01 Caravan. However, IF the front belts lock by jerking the belt, it seems logical that the other belts would have the same type of mechanism. That may not be the case however.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Oh my. That's no fun. I hope she begins feeling better.

    You mention a skidmark; did your van have ABS? If it was so-equipped, it sounds like you locked up, and your ABS didn't operate properly. The seatbelt is an obvious problem, which I'd pursue further (perhaps in court?).
  • temp409temp409 Member Posts: 55
    Don't want to pursue in court just want to tell people TEST YOUR SHOULDER STRAPS went shopping for next car notice Dodge Durango has the same problem. Why do thy have different catching mechanisms for the front than what they put in rear? I don't see how there can be a difference between jerking on it or a body slamming against it in a wreck really? By personal crash experience they do match up.
  • gurneyhalleckgurneyhalleck Member Posts: 8
    I have been minivan shopping for WEEKS now, more like MONTHS! I read Consumer Reports, Edmunds, Intellichoice, JD Power and Assoc. and all the rest and come out more confused than when I came in! I have $15,000 or so to spend in cash on a van to replace our smaller cars now that we have a baby. WE HAVE TO GET A VAN but the choices seem really lousy! I'm a Honda man but the Odyssey is in the high $20k's and so is Toyota. Odysseys before 2004 or so had major transmission problems and other issues. I really like the Mazda MPV. I drove one and wife and I loved it. But I read they have plenty of problems with reliability. So does the Dodge Caravan. My parents owned one years ago and it ate them alive. My dad won't touch a DC with a ten foot pole. I also look at the Kia Sedona, 2005, like the Mazda and Dodge, always used. The Sedona drove nicely, seems interiorwise to be on a par with Honda/Toyota but I KNOW that reliability can't be the same after Kia's years of problems. I hear that Dodge and Kia have really improved but can't say for sure. I need to buy a used van with low miles. Toyotas have more than 50k miles, are three or four years old and they still go for the price of a one year old Dodge/Mazda/Kia? Any advice folks?? Thanks...
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    You should be able to buy a new or used Kia for that price and they have a 100,000 mile warranty on them.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I wouldn't hesitate to get a 2002 or 2003 Odyssey, just make sure that all transmission issues have already been repaired.

    If you are hesitant to get an Odyssey with possible transmission problems, then I would look into a Kia Sedona. You can get a brand new one, with the 10 year/100,000 Mile Long Haul warranty for around $15,000 assuming you can find a dealership still carrying the leftover 2005 models. The new 2006 models will be higher priced.

    Keep in mind that used Kias will not have the 10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty as the fine print in the warranty says that it is strictly "non-transferable". The 5 year/60,000 mile portion is transferable I believe, and that is a long enough warranty.

    Correct me if I have any wrong information. :)
  • siennaboundsiennabound Member Posts: 6
    I feel your pain but you CAN get a Toyota in the low 20's if you are willing to drive to Washington D.C. We did from Florida and are pretty happy campers. Check out fitzmall.com

    Good luck,
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Would be difficult to buy any NEW minivan for $ 15,000. I would NOT buy any used minivan that had been used for rental or fleet.
    At about $ 20,000 you could purchase a NEW Mazda MPV, Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan, or Kia Sedona and get the full factory warranty. Honda/Toyota cost almost as much used as new.
  • estoesto Member Posts: 136
    I'm pretty sure I've seen ads in the local paper (Oregonian) for NEW 2005 MPVs and Sedonas for around $15K. Looks like dealers (and manufacturers) want to blow out the remaining new 2005s at low prices.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Why pay the difference if you can't tell the difference???

    You can buy a preowned 2005 MPV(low miles), nicely loaded, for about $15,000 out the door. With 3 years left on the 4 year warranty...your wife will love you!!!
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Some of the best minivan buys for $15K are either 2005 models that dealers want to blow out or ex-rental fleet ones.

    I think local Mazda dealers in Nashville have 2005 MPVs advertised at $16,788ish, but I'm not sure.

    I've discovered that buying last year's model can be a very excellent buy if you are keeping the car for a long time. (i.e. buying a 2005 model in 2006) It just requires a little extra work locating the leftover models.

    My local Kia dealer has brand new 2005 Sedonas advertised at $14,999 but those may just be teaser prices to get you in the door.

    I know I'll get a lot of angry replies for saying this, but if you do not mind driving a lame-duck minivan known as the Ford Freestar, it could also be a decent buy. The local Lincoln-Mercury dealer here likes buying ex-rental Freestars in bulk and selling them off at $14,995. And from their online inventory, some of them aren't the stripped down models.

    CarMax may have some used Freestars but I'm sure you'll pay a premium for the no-haggle buying experience.

    Good Luck! :)
  • 97xpresso97xpresso Member Posts: 249
    If you read the Kia problems board, the biggest problem is to get Kia to honor their so-called 10/100,000 warranty. For $15,000 you could purchase a new short wheelbase DC van.
  • temp409temp409 Member Posts: 55
    Looked at the Kia's today, Im scared of the reputation of maintenance. Am considering the Ford Windstar-good safety ratings as the kia- but the one I tested seemed to have trasmission trouble. Im at a loss with limited time on our rental the insurance provided after our wreck. Don't consider a Dodge caravan, the shoulder straps on any rear belts WILL NOT CATCH! Test them for yourself jerk the front which catch perfectly then jerk the back. I thought my little girl might die she is yellow and green today but the swelling is gone and her eye is open.
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