Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

jchan2 · April 2006

I've seen two- a red one and a silver one.

I didn't know the Relay was that slow of a seller...

thegraduate · April 2006

Yeah, I think most of those GM Crossover-Sport Vans are pretty much glued to showroom floors. They keep Enterprise R.A.C. busy though.

hansienna · April 2006

Isn't GM building up a huge inventory (90 days) to use as a cushion with the possibility of a strike at Delphi?

The biggest surprise to me is that there was only a 57 day supply of Caravan while there was a 52 day supply of the Odyssey as of March 1, 2006.

Compare these numbers with 47 day supply of Caravan and only 26 day supply of Odyssey as of July 1, 2005

Has the demand for the Odyssey dropped as fast in 8 months as current inventory that is twice as large implies?

thegraduate · April 2006

Has the demand for the Odyssey dropped as fast in 8 months as current inventory that is twice as large implies?

Probably, because it isn't a brand-new model anymore. Just like most new-releases, cars sit less time when they are brand new, in high-demand, and don't have extra production surpluses from years of production.

jchan2 · April 2006

I wonder when GM will put the magical $5000 cashback on these vans...

thegraduate · April 2006

The magic rebates better come soon. People like Pontiac should be filling their showrooms with Solstices and G6 convertibles, not 7 year old minivans.

jchan2 · April 2006

I think the only reason GM continued building these is to keep the Doraville, GA plant alive without having to pay UAW workers for nothing...

badgerfan · April 2006

Hopefully I am not beating a dead horse, but I checked our 1996 Caravan operators manual, and it most definitely stated that the seat belts will lock up only in the event of a severe stop or a crash. They definitely would not lock up on the "jerk test" that temp409 has been using to "prove" that Dodge minivan seatbelts do not work.

sebring95 · April 2006

Actually, 90 days isn't all that high for GM. If you look at last July's numbers, they were low becuase they were running the employee pricing scam....i mean scheme...whoops i mean promotion.

Honda does typically keep production tight during the first year or so of a new model. Toyota does the same. The new Civic is sitting on 24 day supply, which is less than half of where they were last year.

Sales look strong for all the main players, except T&C. Following is January 2006 Sales and % change from January 2005:

T&C 9447 -17%
Caravan 16,273 +18%
Odyssey 10,257 +10%
Freestar 5,746 +4%
Sienna 11,774 +27%
Monterey 338 -62%

Yeah, I threw the Monterey in there for fun!

jchan2 · April 2006

I didn't know people actually BOUGHT Montereys in January 2005...

leibius · April 2006

I work for an automotive research firm, and am interested in your thoughts regarding use of 2nd row seats. For instance, the Sienna offers a center "child presenter" function, to slide your child closer to the front row. Has anyone used this feature? What do you think of it -- and how does it work with & without infant seats? How many of you "mix" infant seats with empty seats? Where do you put infant seats most often? What happens when you need to get into the 3rd row?

In short, any thoughts and opinions on how you use your 2nd row seats would be most helpful in designing better seats for future minivans. Thanks!

cpsdarren · April 2006

We normally keep two of our three kids in the 2nd row seats of our 2006 Odyssey EX-L. Around town, we usually keep the seats separated with an aisle in between. That's plenty of space for the other child to access the third row. We sometimes slide the passenger side captain's chair to the center if adults need to access the third row. That leaves a very large access to the back seat, if you also slide it forward. This arrangement also leaves the "60" folding section of the third row seat open in case we need to haul cargo.

On a recent trip, I put the older kids in the 3rd row seat, one in a high back booster and the other in an extended weight 5-point harness restraint. That left the passenger-side 2nd row seat (moved to the center) and center 3rd row seat open. That allowed my wife to move back to the second row to be next to the rear-facing 11 month old. She could also get back to the third row to help the older kids when needed. That worked very well for us on a 2300 mile round trip drive. She ended up spending most of her time next to the baby, rather than in the front seat. In that regard, the comfort of the full sized captain's chair was an added bonus.

We use the 8th PlusOne seat only as needed for an extra child or passenger. Normally, it is stored in the compartment where the Lazy Susan would be. This works great for us, since we only have 5 passengers most of the time. If we carried 7 or 8 passengers regularly, the Sienna 8-passenger version would have been a better choice.

The Sienna's 8th seat option is very nice as a full time seat. The integrated shoulder belt and LATCH system are very handy for child restraints and passengers of all ages. The slide forward feature was nice, but would be much better if the mechanism allowed you to do this without removing the chair and re-attaching it. One other dislike is that the flush-mounted seatbelt buckles can be hard to access, especially for kids in boosters when they are sitting next to a child restraint.

I had originally ordered a Sienna LE8, with the idea of having 3 kids in the second row and leaving the third row open. When our previous van sold, I quickly discovered that having our kids in the same row of our wagon was not pleasant on a daily basis. That was one reason I reconsidered the Odyssey and it's stowable 8th seat option.

In my opinion, the ideal second row arrangement would be a Stow 'n Go system like the Chrysler minivans have. It would be improved with three separate stowable chairs, similar to those in the 8-passenger Sienna. It would also be easier to stow and have improved comfort compared to the current Chrysler design. Having LATCH in all three seats like the Sienna would be another great feature. That would be the best of all worlds for seating and cargo flexibility.

hansienna · April 2006

No armrests for any of the 2nd row seats.

IF a person needs 8 passenger seating, the Odyssey EX with 8 passenger seating is the best choice. (The former Astro/Safari 8 passenger minivans were good because it was easier for children to access the 3rd row with an 8 passenger van than with the middle 2nd row seat in place with the Odyssey).

cpsdarren · April 2006

The lack of armrests might be a nuisance if you have adults in the 2nd row frequently. It's not much of an issue for kids, especially ones in carseats that often have their own armrests anyway. I'd much rather have the Sienna if I regularly had 7 or 8 in the van, but prefer the Odyssey for seating 5-6 regularly but more every now and then.

The Odyssey's PlusOne seat is fine for a narrow booster or teenager, but not wide enough for an adult on a longer trip. The Sienna's 3rd row is also a couple inches wider which can help for 3 across, even though the legroom is less for adults. The tumble forward mechanism on the 8-passenger model is a little easier than the 7-passenger version and leaves a reasonable clearance for adults and plenty for kids.

phillymom · April 2006

We are shopping for our first minivan. We are trying to keep the cost low so we have narrowed down to the 2005 or 2006 Kia Sedona or Dodge Caravan (SXT model).

Any opinions on either of these brands/models?

temp409 · April 2006

We paid less for the 05 kia this year than 01 caravan purchased it in 02 and kia's 20yr 200,000 powertrain is way better than caravan offers. Plus kias rear shoulder straps will catch when you jerk them. You should see pics of my daughters face from Dodge caravan wreck where hers didn't catch her.
From the resident seatbelt jerker. :P

jipster · April 2006

If you go Kia I would go with the new 2006 model. You'll also get more standard safty features with the Kia.

temp409 · April 2006

LOVE MY KIA hate The caravan I had.

philliplc · April 2006

agreed, if you want a kia go 06. the 06 sedona is much more refined than the 02-05 version - lighter with more powerful engine, standard 4-wheel disc abs with brake assist, traction/stability control, side airbags, fold into floor rear seat, much better rear climate control than the neanderthal rear heater in my 02, plus it's longer but (theoretically) gets better mileage than 02-05. it also has "active" headrests, which the IIHS is big on to combat neck injuries in rear-enders.

also it's not widely advertised but kia has $1000 finance bonus cash plus 3.9% financing listed for the 06 sedona on their website through april.

jchan2 · April 2006

I thought Kia's warranty was 10 yrs/100K miles.

There is no way on earth Kia would stick such a long warranty (20 years, 200K miles) on the Sedona- even cars with a "sterling" reliability reputation may not go that long without a repair. (I know my Civic hasn't, and neither has my Odyssey)

Between the two, I would probably lean towards an 06 Sedona, because of the added safety features you get, the longer warranty, and because its a newer design than the Caravan.

The Dodge dealer would have to offer me a very, very good deal on the Caravan SXT to get me into one.

jipster · April 2006

Anybody ever buy a vehilce with a 30year/300,000 mile warranty?

Perhaps a car with a 50year/500,000 mile warranty would be more economical?

The car could be advertised as ,"The Alpha and Omega Car...The first AND last car you'll ever need. From cradle to grave....and everything inbetween"

sebring95 · April 2006

Jeesh. We get bored in 12 months or so, I'd go crazy owning a vehicle that long.

artgpo · April 2006

Kia factory warranty on ALL models is 10 years/100,000 miles. It is on the powertrain and applies only to the original owner.

thegraduate · April 2006

This was an extra warranty purchase. Who drives the same car 20 years though?

97xpresso · April 2006

A new post on the Ford Freestar Forum. First one since 1/30/06

jchan2 · April 2006

WHOA! Finally!

jchan2 · April 2006

I get tired of my cars by the time 90,000 miles roll around. I push it to just under 100K and then I trade them and start all over again...

hansienna · April 2006

Reminds me of an old saying "Drive your car as fast as it will go every time you drive and it will last your life time". (That was before the Odyssey came out with all the passive safety and restraint systems :shades: )

temp409 · April 2006

The only thing is- you HAVE to have it serviced where you bought the Kia (Grindstaff) which we will do since its close and they charge no extra for oil chance ect. I do love the look of my 01 caravan better but Kias rear shoulder staps catch and thats what matters to me and kids. Caravan is crap as far as rear shoulder strap seatbelts almost killed my daughter. But it did look good and if that is all that matters to ya get you a caravan.

hansienna · April 2006

NHTSA has NOT supported the claim that Caravan/Grand Caravan rear shoulder straps don't catch.
Almost every Town Hall member has also written that the "jerk test" does not test whether a shoulder belt will lock or not.
There is always the possibility that equipment in one or 2 vehicles of any brand will fail to work properly.

Buy a Kia if you don't want a minivan preferred by most minivan buyers.

phillymom · April 2006

Thanks for all the previous feedback about Kia or Dodge.
I found a 05 Kia we really like but I do like the new 06 better (especially with the floor fold seats and larger cargo area). The price difference is alot. We can get a 05 EX with leather, sunroof ect for 21,500 with the rebate. Unsure if I should just hold out for a really good 2006 deal??

Also if they are offering a $4750 rebate do I still try to talk down more on the price?

TIA for any advice

phillymom · April 2006

Where did you find out they are offering 20/200 for the 2005s at no extra cost? Thanks

philliplc · April 2006

IMO that's WAY too much to pay for an outgoing model that depreciates quickly anyway, even if it is loaded. when the 06's first hit around here (oregon) you could get a new 05 EX with no options as low as $15k when dealers were closing them out.

going price around here seems to be $22k for 06 EX without leather or sunroof and <$20k for 06 LX. i haven't priced leather/sunroof 06 EX's, but i'd personally hold out for an 06, unless you can get a *much* better deal on that 05.

thegraduate · April 2006

You shouldn't pay $20,000 or more for that car; it was outdated last year when the 06s were released. They will be dragging those off the lots, and I wouldn't let them push you to deal for more than $20k. If they don't go lower, shop elsewhere.

jipster · April 2006

Take the rebate off the invoice price. Then take at least another thousand off that, cause those 05's are gathering cobwebs . Tax and lisence only...no dealer fees.

97xpresso · April 2006

If you read the Kia problems board, you'll find many posts about how Kia dosn't honor their 10/100,000 warranty, you can forget about 20/200,000 miles. There are tons (pun intended) of 05 Sedona's wasting away on Kia dealers lots. If you could find a left-over '05 Caravan, you would get a nice vehicle with a real 7/70,000 mile powertrain warranty. I have not seen that there are any '05 DC vans left though.

okipinoki · April 2006

Can anybody guess when 2007 Sienna might be available for purchase? Is it August 06? I can not find anything about 2007 Sienna yet...When did 06 Sienna come out to the dealership?

okipinoki · April 2006

I will purchase an 06 Sienna to be shipped to Turkey since I will be stationed there. Does anybody have any experience with whether the basic warranty would be honored overseas?

thegraduate · April 2006

No major changes should happen to the Sienna this year...so drive a 2006 if you are curious of what the 07s will be like. They just did a model refresh.

If you knew that, I apologize; I'm just trying to be informative.

sebring95 · April 2006

I know many manufacturers have stopped honoring warranties on grey-market vehicles (originally sold in Canada and then transferred to US). Lots of odometer fraud going on. No idea about Turkey, but i'd get several opinions before pulling the trigger. Might you get a better deal by waiting and buying once on-site? I've seen that work out better due to various circumstances.

okipinoki · April 2006

understand what you're saying...thanks...

hansienna · April 2006

2006 Siennas appeared in Toyota dealerships in September, 2005. Production of the 2006 Siennas started in the USA the first full week after Labor Day.

jchan2 · April 2006

A Sienna owner's forum said that Toyota might be putting in the 3.5L into the Sienna but the current 3.3L is enough for me...

thegraduate · April 2006

That wouldn't surprise me, and it would be wise given the economy benefits. It would also take the power lead from Honda/Kia, and leave Chrysler in the dust (until the new model comes out in the near future)

temp409 · April 2006

Is where we bought our Kia, 18,500 out the door, and if you take it there for service they honor the 20yr. 200,000 mile powertrain warranty if you take it elsewhere its 10 yr. 100,000 mile powertrain on our 05 kia sedonna. It also has the 5yr bumper to bumper w/roadside assistance:D Best part is of course the rear seatbelts

jipster · April 2006

I've never heard of a 20yr/200,000 mile warranty on a powertrain...much less on a cigarette lighter. Sounds like a good deal though.

The "best part" of my Mazda MPV is the raw unadulturated power. High end torque is unsurpassed. Mac, if you're still out there...I'll be waiting at exit 115 on interstate 65 for ya.

jchan2 · April 2006

of my Odyssey is the resale value. Even after 90,000 miles if I traded it in I could still get a figure between $9,000-$11,000. I doubt you could get that kind of resale on a 2002 Grand Caravan, Sedona, or Venture. (The Sienna maybe, but the rest of them I doubt it)

I also like the fold flat third row and the 3.5L VTEC that gets 25 MPG highway...

thegraduate · April 2006

Even though I know you are being incredibly sarcastic (big surprise on this board, after all), that you at least have the 200 hp motor, and not the 160 hp MPV!

thegraduate · April 2006

We got a trade in value of $13,000 on our 2000 Odyssey EX w/40,000 miles on it last november (2005). 66 months and 40,000 miles only cost us $13,000. Not too bad!

jipster · April 2006

Mazda advertises their minivans as, "The Mazda MPV...the body of a minivan, the soul of a sports car." I don't think Mazda could say that unless it were true...consumer protection laws and all ya know. ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM :shades:

Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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